JUGGERNAUT

Given that there is a large asian community just north of the ball park it always makes sense to hire asian stars. What's most impressive about the guy is his ability to steal bases. He won the SB title for that league in 2 of the last 3 yrs. That gives the White Sox 3 reasonable leadoff options for 2005 if any should get injured or fail miserably: Pods, Iguchi, & Harris. That's good insurance to try & manage 15-16 wins a month (what you need to win a division). But the $ is crazy. The CWS has offered 4M/2yr. I can see upping that to 6M/2yr & then offering as much as 6M/2yr in incentives (total 12M/2yr), but that's the limit. You can offer incentives as such: If he steals 30+ SB he gets 1M. If he makes the All-Star team he gets 1M. If he avg's 290+/150G played he gets 1 M. I don't see him as a #2 though. I like Uribe in that spot preceding Thomas or Dye(when Thomas doesn't play). Uribe has good speed as well & with Thomas following him I think he'll score a lot of runs as well. #1-Pods #2-Uribe #3-Thomas/Dye #4-Koney #5-Dye/Everett #6-Iguchi #7-Rowand #8-Crede #9-C I like him in the 6th spot. Just ahead of Rowand. I think Dye-Iguchi-Rowand is perfect for the rookie with promise. The CWS would still need a utility player so I hope Cairo would still be in their plans.

But then their humiliation ends after Sept. I'd much prefer to see their hopes higher than they've ever been & then begin to crumble like the concrete at the beer garden with each loss in the World Series at the hands of the CWS. Not just 4 straight though. I'll refine that. After all this is the ultimate dream. Four straight no-hitters by the CWS. That would be unbelievable. Better than the Cubs going 0-162. That would not only stand in the record books but that would be talked about for every WS to be played thereafter. They would never stop talking about that. It could never be erased. It could never be forgotten. Any time they mentioned the Cubs they would mention that feat. We would rule the city & the world over the Cubs for all eternity! Well anyways I think a transplanted NY fan get's the message: Real White Sox fans hate the Cubs above all else.

I always thought it was called the House that Ruth built because his signing by the Yankees re-juvenated the fan base & gave the NYY owners the $ to afford the stadium? But I could be wrong. I would have to check his stats. If I remember correctly it's easier to hit HR's in RF in Yankee stadium as well. As for the trade scenario it's funny. Odalis Perez might have just hung himself out to dry. After boasting he deserves a Clement like contract from the Mets, the GM of the Mets said Perez was the backup plan if they couldn't get Pedro but have since moved on. If they meet it would be past the Jan 8th deadline for Beltran's expected signing. That can't help Perez' cause any. As for RJ it looks like AZ is going to get what it wants all along. Vazquez + prospects + 20 MIL for RJ. More than one NY paper has reported that the Boss is now prepared to spend 60M for RJ. Do the math: contract wise RJ will cost the NYY's 48M/3, save the NYY's 35M/3, & cost them 20M to complete the trade. The first year RJ will cost them about 24M more than Vazquez, but the last 2 yrs will only cost about 5M more than Vazquez. Money is never a problem for them. Then the question remains will AZ keep Vasquez at cost of 5M/yr or trade him? I think that depends mostly on Vas. He's not a fan of the west so I don't think he wants to be playing in that division. If AZ includes some of the 20M in a trade, there will be many suitors for Vas. They should get a good price but Vas' own mouth could drop that value down some. Make no mistake about this. If Garland gets traded to the NL & pitches a full season he will finish in the top 20. The NL is tailor made for pitchers to get out of jams. There is a wealth of statistics to prove this. The easiest being 7-9 spots in the batting order. The AL averages 200 OPS better in those 3 spots than the NL. But it doesn't stop there. When I recently did a few comparisons I even found the #6 spot to be weaker in the NL than the AL. If Vas should pitch a full season he'll definitely finish in the top 10 If you look at recent World Series champions, there's a pattern: the NL has only won a WS when it has dominant starters. Guys that either pitch shutouts or dominate the game like RJ & Schilling did. When the NL doesn't feature that the AL wins. That's why when comparing arms from the two leagues the most important stat is probably losses. Take a look at Jon's numbers: 2000 CWS 13GS, 69.2IP, 4W, 8L 2001 CWS 16GS, 117.0IP, 6W, 7L 2002 CWS 33GS, 192.2IP, 12W, 12L 2003 CWS 32GS, 191.2IP, 12W, 13L 2004 CWS 34GS, 217.0IP, 12W, 11L You can look up his game logs & calc his quality starts but it comes down to this: Jon avg'd about 1 loss every 3 starts in 2004. His best average to date. If he could manage just a few more quality starts to push that avg to say 1 loss ev 3.5 starts in 2005 he'll be a top 20 pitcher.

Are some of you nuts? If the White Sox don't make the Garcia trade then some other team definitely does. You don't remember the press around that trade? You don't remember how angry Steinbrenner was until it was explained to him that nobody could beat the White Sox talent in the trade? How quickly you forget how the press & all the other clubs praised Olivo as if he were the 2nd coming of I-ROD. If the CWS doesn't get Garcia right there & then he becomes a NYY. Plain & simple. It was a very good move by KW. One of his best. Still not a word out of Toronto on Zaun so I hope KW is talking to him. I don't like AJ P because he's one of the worst defensive catchers in baseball. I don't think a team re-built on p&d should sacrifice D at the most important D position for a better bat. Zaun is an upgrade D over both Davis & Burke. That's why he's my choice. This whole debate sort of makes the Det signing of I-Rod seem worth it.

You are very much welcome here! There really is only 1 pre-requisite to being a CWS fan: root for the CWS in every chi-town series. If you do that it doesn't matter what else you believe or who else you root for. Just take this statement to heart: The more you grow to love the White Sox the more you will learn to hate the Cubs. That will measure how avid a White Sox fan you are. The ultimate dream of every White Sox fan: Sweeping the Cubs in the World Series 4-0.

First a moment of silence for Reggie White .... Take a look at the FOXsports photos for Barry. They are all taken from different angles but no where does Barry resemble McGuire, Sosa, Canseco, or Giambi. Unless you have raw numbers of his ht, mass, waste size, chest size, etc. you're just making biased opinionated & unsubstantiated remarks based on photos taken from different angles that were probably touched up for publishing. If you haven't heard yet, Odalis Perez is lobbying to join Pedro as a Met. That leaves Vasquez as our last real alternative to upgrading the staff.

I just heard Odalis Perez is lobbying for the Mets to sign him so he can join Pedro. He wants a Clement like contract. Why did I ever waste one word lobbying for this guy to join the CWS? We had ZERO chance of landing him! That makes the El Duque signing look much better.

Zaun is the best option for the CWS in 2004. The Jays want him back & are willing to give him the starting role because he gelled well with the staff. Zaun's numbers suggest he has developed a more patient eye at the plate. So you get an upgrade both offensively & defensively. A 2-yr deal for a modest sum should take the Jays out of the running. It's got nothing to do with Zaun but rather other money they committed in prior years to the position. They want to get the most out of that money. Another option that's not really been mentioned is Navarro. Again the NY-ARZ-CWS RJ trade comes to mind. Would Navarro+Vazquez+15M seal the deal for Koney+Garland+prospect for Vazquez? If ARZ wants Marte as well they would need to give us something in return. Would Navarro represent an appreciable upgrade over Davis? Burke will never be thought of as more than a bench player.

I do not see why Harris would get the starting job over Cairo. Cairo offers much more than Harris. He has good speed, instincts, & can hit. He can play LF, SS, 3B, 2B, 1B w/out any drop off. This is a real no-brainer. Sign Cairo!

S&D did NOT lead to labor unions. Collective bargaining did. The economic theory of CB led to legislative action which helped solidify & encourage the growth of unions. It was also a path that was dug out through blood & money. A heavy price was paid. Too heavy to let it just fall asunder. That is quickly being deteriorated in the wake a global economy where the primary engine of production are regions controlled by communist China. There is some hope though. It's never too late for the US to start over if it should default. The deficit is financed by those who invest in US Treasuries. If it grew beyond our GDP & we defaulted we could always declare bankruptcy since those notes are governed by US laws. Like all great superpowers that have come before us we must be defeated either in battle or through revolution. It's not going to happen through economics alone.

Hoping for Cairo & Zaun. Especially since Cairo has played LF on occasion. When Pods is off, Rowand moves to CF & Cairo could then play LF. When Dye is off, Perez can fill if for him. Cairo just gives Ozzie many more options than Cora would.

250K to sign, 2.5+3.25+4.25 10.25/3 for a a guy < 700 OPS. Insane. But they did have a great need to do something to fill the hole left by Renteria.

The 3 way CWS deal with NY & ARZ could be back on. Apparently NY & ARZ did approve a trade between them. The only sticking point was ARZ demanded 19.5 to cover Vazquez' salary. When the LAD appeared the NY were able to get out of that demand. So the trade is likely to resume between NY & ARZ & a 3rd team that wants Vazquez but is willing to reduce the 19.5M. Rogers believes the SOX would ask for 15M, but there are a few other teams interested as well. As for Bonds, if it makes you feel better to fantasize that you have any clue as to what you are talking about then pat yourself on the back. Any one who knows me on this boards knows that I'm a stat & data person. You're small sample of a Dad & uncles is ridiculous to even consider. Based on real data in America of weight gain alone as people approach 40, more 40 yr olders gain more girth in the face than they had at 20. http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?statsId=3918 Look at that damn picture or for that matter any others & realize how stupid your bias is. Likewise look at his numbers & compare them to Sosa if need be. That's not evidence of steroids. Pay close attention to his 2B's. I'll make it simple for you: 1990: 32DB, 33HR, 301A, 406O, 565S 2004: 27DB, 45HR, 362A, 609O, 812S 20% gain in BA, 50% gain in OBP, 44% gain in SLG. I don't know why it pains you to accept it but Barry is just that good! The other think you can't seem to fathom is that Barry's HR totals took a big rise when SFG got the new park. If you haven't bothered to look it up take a look at his HR's per stadium. Over 1/2 his HR's come from SBC Park. The Park is tailor made for Barry Bonds to hit HRs. Put another way, if Barry wasn't a member of the SFG he would never have hit over 50HR. That's why Aaron's & Babe's HR totals will probably overshadow Barry's. Those two players didn't play in a home that seemed to be diesigned specifically to their strengths. Barry does. The only factual evidence that exists today that Barry may have used steroids is the fact that he used a cream during one stint of the season 1 yr when he was coming off injury & in dire need of pain relief. There is no physical evidence that the cream was a roid. There is only circumstantial evidence taken by other players that used similar creams from the same source. You must be a member of the Sosa fan club to even mention Barry in the same sentence with that loser.

http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/sports/st...+David+Eckstein Eck a Card 250K to sign, 2.25M+3.25M+4.5M. Total 10.25/3. Insane.

Cairo is a much better player than Eckstein. Period. Plan A for a utility/2B should be Cairo. Plan B should be Eck. Plan C should be Cora.

You must not know many 40 yr olds

I looked at what they ACTUALLY did in another thread. Here's the post: http://www.soxtalk.com/forums/index.php?sh...iew=getlastpost I remain unconvinced Cairo adds MUCH more to the CWS than Eck. If KW signs Cairo as a utility player & Zaun as a starting C I'm giving him thumbs up on the off-season. If KW signs a solid RP good v both LH's & RH's I'm giving him applause.

Let's just compare them shall we: A 72 Eckstein, David ANA R 4.24RPG 92R 156H 2HR 35RBI 16SB 42W 188TB 566ABS 211OB 415OUTS .671 OPS VS. LEFT: .279 / .697 VS. RIGHT: .274 / .659 HOME: .301 / .740 AWAY: .250 / .600 Among the league leaders in sac bunts, HBP, hit&run, toughest to strike out. Best suited for 2B with a weak arm & limited range. Sure-handed glove. NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO B 30 Cairo, Miguel NYY R 5.25RPG 48R 105H 6HR 42RBI 11SB 18W 150TB 360ABS 137OB 258OUTS .763 OPS VS. LEFT: .336 / .822 VS. RIGHT: .267 / .730 HOME: .319 / .836 AWAY: .262 / .682 Good FB hitter. Good PH. Decent speed & good instincts. Best pos 2B. Good at turning DPs. Can adequately play SS, 3B, & LF. YESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS B 49 Cora, Alex LAD L 4.98RPG 47R 107H 10HR 47RBI 3SB 47W 154TB 405ABS 172OB 302OUTS .745 OPS VS. LEFT: .239 / .758 VS. RIGHT: .267 / .743 HOME: .282 / .750 AWAY: .248 / .739 Slap hitter. Solid DP guy. Excellent 2B. Weak arm for playing SS everyday. WHYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY Sorry. You have not convinced me. Cairo is the better overall utility player. His 11SB in 360ABS his indicative of his decent spped & good instincts. As I have been saying all along, add G Zaun & Miguel Cairo & were set. If we can big up another solid RP to fill the 7 player pen were done. If KW does all that he gets my nod for a quality off-season & considerable upgrade of the team.

That kind of statement makes me want to your head! He did not F'G gain 30 pounds for using an ointment in a flaxseed oil tube a FEW F'G times a year when he was in pain. As someone said, Barry's muscle gain was slow & steady over his career. He did not bulk up over a year's time like Sosa & Giambi did.

Look up their damn numbers! Getting now. All Eck offers is an OBP about .030 higher than Harris & Cairo. That comes with the risk of his having accomplished that in the leadoff spot where he most certainly will NOT be at w the CWS. He will hit 9th. As a 9 hitter he's worse than Harris & Cairo. I prefer Cairo. How I wish the CWS fan's love for Eck would just die already! Somebody anybody please sign this light weight so we can move on!

Argghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh! I'm beginning to hate the name Eck! I can't understand CWS fans any more & I am one! We gave up power offense to get power pitching this off-season & all you guys want to do is go spend more $ on guys who can't hit like Eck A 360 OBP does not a hitter make! His < 700 OPS is lousy. I don't care who they get any more but the guy should at least resemble a hitter

Then let him go! Spurn away! Since when do we roll out the red carpet for 360 OBP players that can't hit worth shiet? Some of you talk about Eck like he was Ozzie Smith or something. He was non-tendered by the Angels because they said no thank you we don't need you any more. I'd rather spend the money on G Zaun who's team is saying damn we really need you but I don't know if we can guarantee you the starting C spot or meet your salary demands.

Davis stepped it up for 1 month then he became his uesless self again. Please. Enough. The same with Perez. He's a terrible PH. All 3 are wastes of space. I want a better than average C in the 7-9 spots. G Zaun fits that bill. Dump Burke & add Zaun. Nothing can be done about Perez & Davis because they are signed. Uggh. Getting rid of one waste of space is better than nothing.

Let me put it another way. Does a team play a game with the expectation of winning or losing? The answer is winning. Wins are expected. So you plan against losses. I really don't care how many games Garland wins but the starters as a whole can't have more than 50 losses. For every 10+ loss Garland racks up a starter has to make up that difference. If Garland has only 10 losses in 2004 in 30+GS he's done his job.

Santana does not look like a jinx. I think you are forgetting his performance the year before as well. Put another way in the past 2 seasons (12 months of play) Santana has had about 4 below average months, & 4 good months, & 4 dominant months. That's a sign of a guy ready to win the Cy Young again.