JUGGERNAUT

That can be said for any politician .. num nuts

I STILL WANT TO KNOW WHAT IS A FAST REPLY ???????? Your points & my response to them: The UN is for appearances only. It gives the impression of world diplomacy & debate. When it comes to actually doing anything it usually does more harm than good. Of course anything it does it seems can never be done without a scandal of a get rich quick scheme for someone. The reasoning for the war is really quite simple. It wasn't WMD's, Saddam's failure to adhere to UN resolutions or any of the other UN sentimental bull s***. It was simply to create an IRON HAND UNITED STATES PRESENCE right smack in the enemy's F'g backyard! Any one who doesn't understand the strategic importance of Iraq in that area with respect to: 1-intelligence gathering 2-quick strikes against terrorist camps in nearby countries 3-watchdog on Saudi Arabia 4-quick strike capability against any country that threatens Israel 5-Iron fist to safeguard OPEC oil supplies I think some of you are F'g pansy-arsed dreamers who think this world is filled with wonderful church going howdy do thank you very much people. It's not. It's filled with selfish, F U, T I T A, your momma types. That being the case it's always best to watch the hooligans in their own back yard. As for the WMD argument, wake the F up! What came as a DIRECT result of the victory in Iraq? Libya's confession of possessing nuclear & biological WMD's!!!! Talk about a F'g eye-opener! We, Israel, & the UK intelligence agencies didn't have a F'g clue about this! As for the Kurds do you watch or read anything that presently covers Iraq or are you stuck in the 80's? I suggest you should because they seem pretty damn trusting of us right now. In Northern Iraq right now where the Kurds pretty much control the government they are adopting US traditions & capitalism like it's their first day in Sunday school. It's a completely different atmosphere from before. As far as Turkey goes, we occupy the F'g country south of it's border. WTF does America give a s*** what Turkey thinks? Capitalism breeds American imperialism because Americans are quicker & more powerful to move capital than any other nation on the planet! Probably in the solar system. You can't build an economy w/out capitalization. The Iraqi people don't have any means of capitalization. Saddam owned or controlled all those entities. Now grant it a large group of Iraqi's are too illiterate to understand this. Which is why we are spending billions to revamp & guide the educational system. Finally, who the F cares how many people died in the 1st year in Vietnam? It's a completely useless stat to even suggest. There is no N Vietnamese army backed by China in Iraq. There is small band of guerilla fighters who are adept as snipers & kamikazee attackers. There's not even a remote SIMILARITY to Vietnam! If you want to make an analogy it's more like Bosnia/Kosovo where UNITED NATIONS troops continue to get slaughtered each day. Or don't you F'g read world news about the cess-pool Clinton left there? Pardon my use of capitals & agitated tone. It's a message board & I to like to have a little fun. It's definitely not personal in any way. I like to stereo-type on sports boards. It's more fun. Ok, sure it's sarcastic fun, but hey we are all adults ..no?

It's the principle damn it! I fight social injustice as well but it's not as much fun

Web gem acolades: GAME DAY RECAP Thursday, April 08 @ NYY -H Matsui grounded into fielder's choice to third, J Giambi out at third. -A Rodriguez grounded out to third. -H Matsui safe at first on error by third baseman J Crede, J Posada to second. -R Sierra struck out swinging. J Posada caught stealing third, catcher to third. It's hard to evaluate Joe here. He saved a run with the play in the 2nd, non situation with A-ROD, but then he had an error that cost 2 bases. He did play a role in the steal. Give him +1 for the run saved, .5 for A-ROD out, -1 for the error, +1 for the steal. So he ends up with 2 (bat) + 1.5 (glove) = 3.5. Still less than Thomas. I can't simply ignore the error.

I do what I can in the time I can find. What I will do is add a glove of the game category. 1 pt for each web gem + .5 pt for each base saved on the play. I know you will help inform me of that, so over time we should be able to keep track of it.

Season to date TOTALS: Bats: PK > MO > CL > FT > SA > MOl > AR > JV > JC > WH FT = 3+4+1.5 CL =7+.5+4 PK = 8.5+2+1 AR = 3.5+2.5+0 SA = 7.5 WH = .5+0+.5 JV = 4+0+1 MO = 2+8+1 MOl=7 JC=2+0+0 Starter Arms: MB < EL < SS MB = 2.5 EL = 2.5 SS = 2.8 Relief Arms: JA < NC < CP < MJ < BK < DM CP = 2.1+1 BK = 4+1 DM = 12 JA=0 NC=.5 MJ=4.5

That is simply too F'g hard to record. The purpose of this is to determine the value of each player per game. If you want to factor in performance vs good pitcher or game situation vs bad pitcher be my guest. Just creat a new topic. Maybe call it: Evaluating Pitching, Hitting, Defense. The game logs don't include the web gems so you need another source to get that. I suppose I can add era & records of pitchers faced for information only, but there's no way I can include that in a scoring system.

APR 8 @ NYY NY YANKEES 1ST -B Williams reached on infield single to second. 1 -A Rodriguez walked, B Williams to second. .5, .5 -J Giambi walked, B Williams to third, A Rodriguez to second. .5, .5, .5 -G Sheffield reached on infield single to pitcher, B Williams scored, A Rodriguez to third, J Giambi to second. 1, .5, .5, .5 -J Posada hit sacrifice fly to right, A Rodriguez scored. .5 SS=6.5 CHICAGO SOX 2ND -F Thomas singled to left. 1 -J Crede singled to left center, F Thomas to third. 1+1, 1 FT=2 JC=2 NY YANKEES 2ND -D Jeter singled to left. 1 -B Williams walked, D Jeter to second. .5, .5 -A Rodriguez walked, D Jeter to third, B Williams to second. .5, .5, .5 SS=3.5 CHICAGO SOX 3RD -W Harris walked. .5 WH=.5 NY YANKEES 3RD SS=0 CHICAGO SOX 4TH -F Thomas walked. .5 -C Lee grounded out to catcher, F Thomas to second. .5, .5 -P Konerko singled to left, F Thomas scored. 1+1, 1 FT=2 PK=2 CL=.5 NY YANKEES 4TH -E Wilson singled to center. 1 -E Wilson caught stealing second, pitcher to first to shortstop. -1 -D Jeter grounded out to second. SS=0 NY YANKEES 5TH SS=0 NY YANKEES 6TH -J Posada homered to left. 4 -R Sierra singled to center. 1 -E Wilson singled to center, R Sierra to second. 1+.5, .5 SS=7 NY YANKEES 7TH JA=0 NY YANKEES 8TH -Bottom of the 8th inning -N Cotts relieved J Adkins. -J Posada walked. .5 -H Matsui safe at first on error by third baseman J Crede, J Posada to second. .5, .5 -R Sierra struck out swinging. J Posada caught stealing third, catcher to third. -1 NC=.5 JA=0 CHICAGO SOX 9TH -J Valentin singled to right. 1 -M Ordonez grounded into fielder's choice to pitcher, J Valentin out at second, M Ordonez to first, M Ordonez to second on throwing error by second baseman E Wilson. .5+.5 JV=1 MO=1 TOTALS SS=6.5+3.5+0+0+0+7=17/6 = 2.8 FT=2+2 JC=2 WH=.5 PK=2 CL=.5 JA=0+0 NC=.5 JV=1 MO=1 Bat of the game: FT Arm of the game: Jon Adkins (flawless performance) Glove of the game: JC (3 fine D plays) Player of the game: Jon Adkins

APR 7 @ KC CHICAGO SOX 1ST -M Ordonez safe at first on error by second baseman T Graffanino. .5 -F Thomas walked, M Ordonez to second. .5+.5, .5 MO=1 FT=1 KANSAS CITY 1ST -C Beltran walked. .5 EL = .5 CHICAGO SOX 2ND -A Rowand singled to right center. 1 -M Olivo homered to center, A Rowand scored. 4+1.5, 1.5 AR=2.5 MOl=5.5 CHICAGO SOX 3RD -M Ordonez doubled to deep right center. 2 -F Thomas flied out to center, M Ordonez to third. .5 MO=2 FT=.5 KANSAS CITY 3RD -A Guiel walked. .5 -T Graffanino grounded into fielder's choice to shortstop, A Guiel out at second. .5 -A Berroa grounded into fielder's choice to shortstop, T Graffanino out at second. .5 -C Beltran walked, A Berroa to second. .5, .5 -M Sweeney singled to left, A Berroa scored, C Beltran to second. 1+1+.5, 1, .5 EL=3+3=6 CHICAGO SOX 4TH -P Konerko walked. .5 -M Olivo singled to left center, P Konerko to second. 1+.5, .5 MOl=1.5 PK=1 KANSAS CITY 4TH -M Stairs singled to center. 1 -J Randa grounded out to, M Stairs out at second, J Randa to first. .5 EL=1.5 CHICAGO SOX 5TH -M Ordonez homered to left. 4 -C Lee homered to center. 4 MO=4 CL=4 KANSAS CITY 5TH -Bottom of the 5th inning -A Guiel homered to right. 4 -T Graffanino singled to right. 1 -C Beltran singled to center, T Graffanino to third. 1+1,1 EL=8 CHICAGO SOX 7TH -M Ordonez singled to left, M Ordonez out stretching at second. 1 MO=1 KANSAS CITY 7TH -Bottom of the 7th inning -A Guiel walked. .5 -M Jackson relieved E Loaiza. -A Berroa singled to left, A Guiel to third. 1+1, 1 -C Beltran grounded into fielder's choice to first, A Guiel scored, A Berroa out at second. .5+.5 -M Sweeney grounded into fielder's choice to third, C Beltran out at second. .5 EL=.5 MJ=4.5 KANSAS CITY 8TH -C Politte relieved M Jackson. -J Gonzalez singled to center. 1 CP=1 KANSAS CITY 9TH -B Koch relieved C Politte. -A Berroa singled to left. 1 -C Beltran flied out to center. BK= 1 TOTALS MOl=1.5+5.5=7 MO=1+2+4+1=8 FT=1+.5=1.5 EL = .5+6+1.5+8+.5=16.5/7=2.5 AR=2.5 PK=1 CL=4 MJ=4.5 CP=1 BK= 1 Bat of the game: MO Arm of the game: BK Player of the game: BK BK is a subjective choice, but closing the 9th in a 1 run game was bigger IMO than both CP's & EL's performance. Note: I've decided to always round partials innings to 1. It shouldn't make a difference since there will usually be some subjectivity for the arm of the game.

RACE TO BE THE BEST !!! as of 04/15/04 =========================================== =========================================== Bats (best > worst) : (47.. 00.5) Bats: MO > JV > CL > JC > PK > WH > MOL > FT > SA > AR > TP >> JU Arms (best < worst): Starters: JG < MB < EL < SS << DW Relievrs: JA < NC < CP < BK < MJ < BK < DM < ST Indiv Game Honors: Bat of the Game:... MO(3), FT(1), PK(2), WH(1), JV(1), MOL(1) Arm of the Game:.. MB(2), BK(2), JA(1), JG(1), NC(1), MJ(1), CP(1) Glove of the Game: MOL(4), JC(1), MB(1), JV(1) Player of the Game:MB(2), BK(1), JA(1), JG(1), JV(1), PK(1), JC(1), MO(1) =========================================== =========================================== This will be the last day for this scoring thread. There are some weakneses in the scoring system that are being revamped. It would be unfair to the players to revamp it without starting over. =========================================== Running Totals: =========================================== Bats: MO > JV > JC > PK > MOL > CL > FT > AR > JU > WH > SA > TP > RG MO(46.5)=2+8+1+11+8+2.5+2+5+7 JV(39.0)=4+0+1+5+5.5+9.5+6.5+1+6.5 CL(31.0)=7+.5+4+4+4+6.5+4.5+.5 PK(33.0)=8.5+2+1+2.5+.5+3.5+9+6.5+.5 JC(33.0)=2+0+0+4+5+6.5+4+7.5 MOL(32.0)=7+6.5+1+6.5+11 FT(30.5)=3+4+1.5+2.5+2.5+5+5.5+6.5 WH(15.0)=.5+0+.5+5+9 AR(22.0)=3.5+2.5+0+3+5+4+4 SA(10.5)=7.5+3 JU(17.5)=.5+7.5+5+4.5 TP(06.5)=6.5 RG(00.5)=.5 Starters: JG < SS < MB < EL << DW JG(2.55)=1.6+3.5 MB(2.93)=2.5+1.2+4 EL(3.15)=2.5+3.8 SS(2.80)=2.8 DW(4.25)=4.25 Relief Arms: JA < NC < CP < MJ < DM < BK < ST CP(1.34)=2.1+1+1 BK(7.10)=4+1+4.5+.5+18.5 DM(4.25)=12+1+1.25 JA(0.25)=0+.5 NC(0.75)=.5+1 MJ(1.75)=4.5+1+.25 ST(8.00)=8 Note: cum avg for starters & arms is pts / appearances =========================================== =========================================== Disclaimer: I want to first say that I am a guest in the PTC game & that I fully recognize the owner of the game is SS. This thread has no intention of undermining the scoring system of that game. The purpose of this thread is to keep track of the value of each SOX player as the season progresses. Rules: The point value system: Hitter: 1 pt for each base reached by the hitter on a hit. 0.5 pt for a walk 0.5 pt for each base reached by the runner as a result of a ball in play or walk Runner: 1 pt for each SB, -0.5 pt for CS, +0.5 for each base advanced run's scored, batted in are inherient to the sytem Evaluation of pitchers will be based on evaluation of opposing team's hitters. That total for each pitcher will then be divided by innings pitched. The pitcher with the least point value is the arm of the game.

What is FAST REPLY? Anyways, there is an alternative. It's not politcally correct but in the end it gives the US what we want (Democracy in Iraq). The alternative is we turn the country over to the Kurds. They have created democracy in Northen Iraq & capitalism is beginning to flourish there. They are not afraid to go on seek & destroy missions to hunt down terrorists. Most importantly they are loyal to the US, so they would not do anything to undermine us there. Will this decision save American lives? Yes. The Kurds are well-trained in fighting these kinds of battles & we can drastically lower our forces & presence in the region by turning things over to them. Will the world be in an uproar for our choosing sides? Yes. But you know I'm sick of the world dictating US policy. All I hear in these posts is get the UN involved. And of course I'm hearing this on the tail of a rather large scandal in the UN involving millions of dollars in the food for oil program in Iraq that's been going on for nearly 15 years. The scandal is so bad that in essence Sadam starved his people & padded the wallets of several UN officials. Especially those in France & Germany. The UN is not the answer. It never has been. So the bottom line in my opinion is that the power brokers/media in the world hate our guts now so turning things over to the Kurds isn't going to do much worse. If we just withdraw from the region the Kurds are likely to assume power any ways so by doing it diplomatically & officially we can still maintain some power & influence in the region. The rebuilding effort must go on. American companies involved in that effort are not going to leave. So we need to do what we can to insure their safety. This is not Vietnam by any stretch of the imagination. The war is over. The main battle has been won. The old regime is gone. What remains are loyal snipers that no that the West is weak when it comes to dying for a cause. They will use every means at their disposal to exploit that. Backing down will only make them stronger & the means they use more effective. Bob Kerrey is an a-hole for even suggesting Iraq is Bush's Vietnam. Tens of 1000's of troops died in Vietnam. We've yet to reach the 1000 mark in Iraq. More importantly we have an ally in the Kurds. We need to get real here & make use of that. Trying to build a new Iraq for both those who supported the old regime & those who were oppressed by it can't work. I think Bush knows this. He just doesn't know how to politically spin it so the media will accept it.

I'm in a bad mood this week. So I'll play a game with you. You're the Prime Minister of Japan. You just received word that 3 Japanese citizens have been taken hostage by Iraqi terrorists. They demand you withdraw your non-COMBAT troops from Iraq or they will kill the hostages in 3 days time. What do you do? This is the crux of the decision Bush & the American people face in whether to stay or leave Iraq. If you leave, then all the businesses that currently involved in the rebuilding process become welcome hostages. If you stay you are likely to continue to receive guerilla tactic sneak attacks & lose lives. There is no way to prevent loss of life when battling snipers. I'll sit back & wait for your answer.

Look, I'm just concerned of how the print media will treat the SOX if the Tigers continue to win while the SOX battle the NY All-Stars. I think it does have an effect on some of these players. The schedule makers have made it very difficult for the SOX to get off to a good start. If the Tigers continue to run away when the SOX might be in a losing streak I can just imagine the columns they'll write. That's all I'm trying to say.

Quote: Bush entered into this war with his hands tied. We can not fight Iraq to the best of our ability. A country should not engage in a war it will not fight. And it is impossible to fully fight a war that has a weak cause. And thus we enter the modern age where there is no war other than a world war that will have a strong cause. In my opinion that whole article is rubbish. The terrorists have hated the United States since our alliance with modern Israel. There are events in the 70's, 80's, & 90's that involved acts of war against US citizens. The bottom line is that since 9/11 the country has not suffered a major terrorist attack. The economy & that record is what Bush should be judged upon. Way back machine: Under Clinton: We had involvment in Kosovo, & Somalia. We participated in carpet bombing in Bosnia creating millions of refugees. We suffered the OK, NYC bombings. The WTC bombing could have been the worst disaster in American history if the bombers studied physics better. We suffered the US Cole & Embassy bombings. We will never abandon Israel so we will always be the central target of hate. Capitalism & democracy are a severe threat to the terrorist regimes & idea of territorial rule. We will always be the main target for that reason as well. There is no diplomacy with these people other than abandoning the region and letting them fight it out amongst themselves. We can never do that as long as the world economy is dependant on the flow of OPEC oil. There's are fundamental truths. Learn them, accept them, & move on.

I'm not so sure about that. It's only 4 gms, but a team era of 3.00 & team whip of 1.06 looks pretty good to me. The Tigers are hitting at a clip of 906 OPS & holding opp to 651 OPS. I'm not saying they are going to be in the hunt by years end. But they certainly are playing good ball so far. The big hitters are the new hitters: Rondel White, Dmitri Young, Guillen, & I-ROD are all over 1000 OPS. Young has really been a non factor in the TB dept. I-ROD, Munson, & White are the main TB guys. White is suspect to play a whole year so I agree when he goes down they will struggle to score. But media wise this plays in the hands of the SOX bashers. I disagree with the Royals being a main threat. Right now they look like they have severe rotation problems. Yeah, the Twinks will be there as long as Santana is healthy.

THIS ABSOLUTELY SUCKS! I ABSOLUTELY LOATHE THE SCHEDULE MAKERS THIS YEAR! Thanks to these mindless boffos that have the SOX & Cubs opening in the same week in Chicago, we have 6 more games with the NYY in the next week. So while we are struggling to compete against the NYY, the Tigers are now 4 - 0. After the first 3 games we find ourselves 2.5 gb ! What will we be after we're done with the NY All-Stars? 5 gb? Lady luck just doesn't seem to like the SOX

Cotts has not been stretched out enough to jump into the rotation. I'm content to stay with Schow. We still have Wright to contend with. The worst thing so far this year is that our latest nemesis (Tigers) has us in a whole already (2 gb). We don't match up well with their pitching. It looks to be a very hectic, nail-biting season this year.

He needs a change up or curve to get better than "The Full Count". I think Wed showed why this happens. When he has control of the heat he'seeffective at hitting the corners & throwing less-hittable pitches. He typically throws more strikes than balls, but because he is so dependant on the corners it's usually 50/50 that it will be a ball/strike if the guy doesn't swing. Koch can work an 0-2 count but if the guys adept at fouling the other strikes off he's got a real good shot at working a full count. When it goes full Koch is more likely to come in on the plate & the guy either gets a more hittable pitch or a draws a walk. Koch is good at changing speeds (88-98) but still the pitches have little arc to them. That's not to say they don't have movement. They do have movement, but if your good at hitting inside & outside corner pitches you can try to guess your way to a hit against him. If he could just develop a curve or change that he could use to sink a pitch around the plate, he'd be much more effective.

The good Lord has answered the prayers! Koch looked so much better Wed, then he ever did in 2K3. Speeds: 88-98 MPH Majority: 94-96 MPH Location: more strikes than balls, few over the plate. Corners: He was painting them nicely. It's a new year & a new Koch! I'm beyond shocked considering Ozzie was hoping he would be able to hit 94/95 tops a week ago! Of course it is just one game. But damn! 98 MPH! The last SOX pitcher I saw do that was fat boy Colon.

What about these Reds? Do they still have Austin Kearnes & if so when is he due back? Kudos to Schow. He looked pretty good today. Especially given the ump was squeezing him early on.

Knock on wood, but Schow is looking A LOT better now. I'm impressed.

Harris = good BUT woefully dumb speed aboard.

DYK: The Yanks lost 2 games this season to the Devil Rays in a battle of number 1's. Mussina has not looked good. The SOX in this series face Vazquez, Contreras, Ozborne, & Mussina. Hey! We got a chance to take 3/4! Hawk is getting upset with the umps. Through a tea cup. I like that.

WILL WE SCORE TODAY? I'm afraid to look up the stats on Schow vs Williams.

bot 1, ron, 1,3, 2 outs, NYY 2 SOX 0 Scoring sum: Squeeze bunt w bases loaded Sac Fly Nice plays: Maggs (running wall catch), Crede BAD pitching: 2 walks