JUGGERNAUT

Updated wish list: If KW trades Maggs, he must get someone to take Koney/Koch in the process. Preferrably Koney. Do not trade Lee. Millwood is likely to go arbit with Phils again. Bor-as seems to think he's deserving of Mussina type $$$ & will wait another year to get Kevin into the Yanks rotation. There is ZERO chance of him being a SOX. The first thing KW has to do is solidify the rotation. OPS vs: EL: 634: 534 v RH, 697 v LH, MB: 735: 762 v RH, 674 v LH, JG: 762: 708 v RH, 798 v LH, 4-5 candidates: Scot Schow: 640: 703 v RH, 571 v LH, 30W-32L, 74 starts Kenny Rogers: 790: 821 v RH, 708 v LH, 158W-114L, 335 starts I've made this point before, but I'll say it again. There would be no greater price vs performance buy than getting 2 established pitchers for the 4-5 spots. Why go into every 5th start hoping for a win? It's much better to put a rotation out there where a team expects to win that start. Starting pitchers should be made in the bullpen on the SOX. A player that shows good stuff against both RH & LH is starters material. Marte has shown that as well as Schow. Or if nothing else, put up exceptional ml #'s.

The Miles trade makes sense now. Graf had turned down both a 1 yr extension & arbitration offer from the SOX. He had made up his mind he wanted an opportunity to become an everyday player. KC offered him that & was willing to make a 2 yr commitment towards it. With Graff gone, KW needed a utility player that has proven to hit much better than Harris. That's exactly what he got for Miles.

I think I'll have to agree to disagree on who was more valuable to the Marlins in the post-season. I'll certainly agree with you that I-ROD was the Marlins regular season MVP. What you've indicated in his last few games as a Marlin was more of the same he had done for the better half of the 2nd half of 2003. He was arguably the best clutch-hitter in the NL the 2nd half. But you simply can not measure raw stats in the post-season. Dominance is in a class of it's own. Yes I-ROD had some key hits in both the SF, & CHI series. But they were not low scoring hits. In other words, the ball was flying off the bat. That Zambrano hit was a thing of beauty. Probably less than 5% of MLB players would have hit that pitch as well as I-ROD did. But Zamby was showing signs of cracking, & the game got out of hand soon after. The games where Beckett dominated, there was nothing the sCrUBS or Yanks could do. That's why I consider him the Marlins post-season MVP. If the rumors are true, & the Marlins are now in the running for Vladdy then they might very well be the NL favorites to get there again. Grant it, it remains to be seen that Beckett can perform in the regular season like he did down the stretch. But if you look over the history of dominating post-season pitchers they usually continue their success. Perhaps the better question to ask is would Beckett be the Marlins franchise player? Given his age & post-season success I would say there should be no doubt. I'm still waiting for the day the SOX draft a dominator.

KW has no controll over these events, but they are woeful: Teams finishing 15th overall or worse that sign a Type A free agent owe that player's former team a sandwich pick and a second-rounder. The Sox also offered Tom Gordon salary arbitration and will receive similar compensation from New York when the free-agent relief pitcher signs a two-year contract with the Yankees. The White Sox should get New York's first-rounder next year, but that will go to the Los Angeles Dodgers as compensation for signing free-agent reliever Paul Quantrill. Since Quantrill is ranked higher than Gordon, the Sox will receive a sandwich pick and a second-rounder from the Yankees.

Let's breakdown your list to where it makes sense. compensation pick, Bartolo Colon = 9mil, Rocky Biddle, Antonio Osuna, Jeff Liefer A better Buerhle, & a better Garland & Colon = a Div championship. It was worth the price. Gordon was signed in the off-season, so there was no loss of talent to acquire him. Scott Sullivan, Robbie Alomar, Carl Everett are the biggest loss. We will get no picks for essentially an added boost in the 2nd 1/2. Money wise, the SOX gained more than they lost, but losing Webster could hurt them in the long run. Tony Graffanino = he elected FA. There was no loss of talent to acquire him. Humberto Quintero = who? D'Angelo Jimenez = good ridance. The 2 biggest losses in KW's wheeling & dealing last summer are Royce Ring & Anthony Webster. They were prospects that have dominant upsides. That's hard to find. In both those trades we rented a player for about 3 months. As far as Hummel, Miles, etc. given the current state of FA it's hard to say how much this hurts. These are good players but not great ones, & the jury is still out whether they can hit ML pitching over the span of 2 seasons when teams & pitchers adjust to hitters. The odds are they can't. Almonte's a loss as well, but he seemed to have digressed the last yr. So in the end, the summer of 2003 will be measured by Webster & Ring. This is the nature of the game. Dominant pitching wins championships. If you don't have that, nothing else matters. Timely hitting just keeps you in the game.

We have our off-season debate topic now. Who was more important to the Marlins winning the WS? Josh Beckett or Ivan Rodriquez? I say Josh Beckett for these reasons: 2003 DIV series: 1er/7ip 2003 NLC series: 7er/19.1ip, incl 19K, 2W, 11H, 2003 WS series: 2er/16.1ip, incl 19K, 5W, 8H Look at his PS game logs: 9/30 1er/7ip , 9K, 2H 10/7 6er/6.1ip, 5K, 2H, 1W, they beat the sCrUBS 9-8 With his team down 3-1 to the SCrUBS: 10/12 0er/9ip, 2H, 11K, 1W, CG-SO. One of the most dominating performances in NLC series history. 10/15 1er/4ip, 1H, 3K, 1W, beat the scrubs 9-6 10/21 2er/7.1ip, 3H, 10K, 3W 10/25 0er/9ip, 5H, 2W, 9K, CG-SO The Marlins won all 3 gms vs the SCrUBS when Beckett pitched. The Marlins split the gms he pitched vs NYY. The Marlins gave him ZERO run support vs SF. His 2 CG-SO performances in the last 2 series make him the most dominant player in the post-season. He was a #1 pick just like Prior.

There's no way the D-Rays trade Huff. He's not just good, he's great. And what's more he's cheap. That would be like CLE trading away Manny or Thome in their cheap days. No team is that stupid. For those who aren't familiar with Huff: 16th best in AL in RPG (6.70). 91R, 107RBI, 34HR at a cost of 325K. That might be the best price/performance rate in all of MLB.

It is true the Florida Marlins won the WS with a payroll < 60mil. But it wasn't IROD that got them there or won it for them. It was a #1 pick by the name of Josh Beckett. This kid is now arguably the most dominant pitcher in MLB if he continues his late 2003 success. If the SOX continue to end in 2nd place by trying to win a WS with a < 60mil payroll & few top picks in the org, they will never catch lightning in a bottle like the Marlins. Which means their chances of winning a WS are no better than the Houston Astros. Both teams try to field a winning team each & every year with about the same payroll. Both teams groom good but not great talent that leaves when it becomes top $. The SOX can't afford a purge of talent to acquire #1 picks like the Marins did. So the only lightning in a bottle the SOX can hope for is through trades. Perhaps in that light KW is the right man for the job. In the big picture it doesn't matter whether he makes a trade that worsens the team. The goal is to win a World Series. The only way the SOX can do it is to get lucky in a trade. Colon was one of those types of trades. Coming off of a 21-8 season, there was a real possibility Colon could repeat that success and not only win the division but compete for a championship. But that didn't happen & he finished 15-13. So I will hope & pray that KW can wheel & deal again to bring us another hope like Colon. The sooner SOX fans realize the truth the better they will feel. Either we trade our way to a championship or we suck so bad we can pick our way to a championship with #1 picks. Everything in between will just keep us where we are: in the middle of the pack. Good Luck KW!

There are some good signs that bargains will be available: Grudzielanek looked at the landscape and grudgingly accepted a one-year deal worth between $2.5 million-$3 million for 2004 on Sunday — despite hitting .315 and making $5.5 million in 2003. The Sox also announced they declined to offer arbitration to free agents Roberto Alomar, Carl Everett, Tony Graffanino and Scott Sullivan. That tells me that the SOX can pick up a decent 2B FA for about the same price. What bothers me as a SOX fan is not what the sCrUBS do, but rather what the NY teams get to do all the time. Kaz Mat would have really boosted the SOX fortunes by drawing on an ethnic crowd base that neither team offers much towards. Given the close proximity to Chinatown the SOX should have rolled the dice on Kaz. But the truth is even if the SOX were willing to spend say 21/3 yrs Kaz would still have choosen NY. Why does MLB continue to propogate this travesty? It should move the Expos to the NYC area & break up the monopoly the Yanks & Mets own respectively in that market. My wish list now has dwindled to keeping Lee, possibly signing Gonzo, & picking up a solid #2 pitcher. Maggs is a near certainty to be out of here.

For those of you who voted USC vs OU why reward a school that played a weak schedule? The only ranked opponent USC faced was WSU (15). ND beat WSU! You should take the time to look at the combined W-L record of USC's opponents. It might be the weakest schedule ever for #1 ranked team. The BCS got it right. For those who forgot, OU trounced TEXAS (5). OU played 3 ranked opponents & went 2-1. Demolishing the first 2 & losing to the last. LSU played 4 ranked opponents & I think their only loss was Florida.

Again, by what devine right does USC have to play for the National Title? http://www.soxtalk.com/index.php?showtopic...30entry220792 They played 1 ranked opponent all yr. 15th ranked Wash St. Hell, ND beat WSU! The BCS got it right. The teams with the best record vs the toughest schedule are playing for the Title. Think of the WWE or heavy weight boxing. You have to beat the best to play for a championship. USC clearly did not do that this year. The truth is that if Michigan was so stupid on the field this yr, they would not have lost to both Oregon & Iowa & would likely be playing OSU in the Sugar Bowl. Stupid because they made bone head plays in those 2 games that cost them the victory. In otherwords, the talent level on UofM is so far superior to most teams that if they had played these 2 teams 10 times each, they would probably have beaten them 8/10. So USC should quit it's dry tear drama scenes & concentrate on the task at hand : playing a #4 in the Rose Bowl who might very well have finished the season playing like a #1.

I am so sick of hearing how WRONG'd USC is for not being invited to the Sugar Bowl. Exactly what they HELL did this team accomplish? 1 F'g win against a RANKED (16th) opponent. The reason why the BCS has OSU vs LSU is because it's smart enough to know the difference between a weak-arse schedule & a tough one. There is no question that LSU deserves to be there. All this controversy goes to show is that the men & women who make up the AP & UPI polls are weak-minded. They choose to vote style over substance. The 7 computers choose substance. To be honest, it wasn't really as close as many of you & them think. LSU was robbed of a -0.4 deduction for beating Georgia twice. There is a stupid rule in place where if a team beats another team twice, they lose the quality win deduction. This rule is completely ignorant of the ranking of that other team. At the time LSU played Georgia the first time, it was scored as a quality win. They shouldn't lose that deduction for beating them again. Georgia dropped from 5th ranked to 11th ranked after the loss. Here's what strength of schedule really amounts to. Look & see how weak USC's schedule was : http://sports.yahoo.com/ncaaf/teams/lli LSU : 4 ranked opp : 11, 17, 16, 11 OSU : 3 ranked opp : 5, 21, 8 USC : 1 ranked opp : 15 UoM : 4 ranked opp : 13, 24, 12, 7 UoT : 4 ranked opp : 8,3,22,21 If you look beyond the rankings & consider perhaps W-L record of opponents USC's schedule doesn't just look weak but rather pathetic. No matter how you measure it USC is where it should be : playing in the Rose Bowl for winning the PAC-10 conference. Arguably the weakest conference of the big 6 this year. No more, no less. I applaud the BCS for not catering any more than they do to an obvious West Coast bias in the polls. They got it right, & if truth is to be served with justice then Michigan will prove that fact in the Rose Bowl.

It's been a long time. Congrats to the M's for making 2003 a bearable year for SOX fans. I mean that in more ways than one. Let's look at the top 5 price-wise position players on the SOX in terms of what I call the money stat: (R+RBI)/AB Slownerko: (03 looks like a snag. Expect > .300 in 04) career: .306, 00: .316, 01: .328, 02: .325, 03: .257 Lee (Is 04 the yr he > .400?) career: .323, 00: .347, 01: .285, 02: .329, 03: .342 Maggs ( .425 looks like a fluke, but .350 is expected) career: .349, 00: .388, 01: .354, 02: .425, 03: .320 Val (consistently > 30% over past 4 yrs) career: .310, 00: .350, 01: .304, 02: .324, 03: .306 Thomas (.346 avg over past 4 yrs including 01) career: .400, 00: .443, 01: .265*, 02: .323, 03: .352 * - only 68 ab's A lot of SOX fans undermine the value of Thomas' presence in the lineup. But this money stat says it all. Even with his worst in 01 with less than 100 ab's his 4 yr avg is nearly as good as Maggs. On top of that his 03 avg was the best of the 5. He's still a good buy at 6MIL. Which is the best price vs performance buy based avg projections & 04 prices? Slownerko .0382/mil Lee .0430/mil Maggs .0249/mil Val .0620/mil Thomas .0577/mil Maggs is clearly not a good buy. He would need to put up a .549 just to equal Slownerko's value. You can clearly see why Val is a reasonable buy. Crede career: .274, 03: .263 When you look at Crede's numbers it makes Lee's that much more valuable. How does Maggs compare to other big $$$ players? Manny Ramirez career: .419, 03: .388, .0216/mil A-Rod career: .400, 03: .399, .0177/mil Delgado career: .390, 03: .460, .0255/mil Giambi career: .383, 03: .381, .0293/mil Funny how the Yanks get the best price/performance of the big sluggers. Still if I was going to buy a player for the future it would be Delgado.

http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sp...tesox-headlines The White Sox and their fans absolutely deserve each other She's obviously a Jerry lover because she doesn't mention any of his better than a dozen bonehead mistakes that cost this team the division. I don't share her sentiments. Even before Carl & Robbie arrived I knew it would be an uphill battle because the talent had to overcome Manuel. You can say whatever you want about the players but this team was rocking & rolling in NY in late Aug. Emotion is a major part of this game & sweeping NY in NY would elevated the SOX to a level that is not easily torn down. Instead Manuel practically gave the game away with Cotts. I don't want to hear any dumb arse excuses behind his decision. Cotts had shown 1 thing going into that game: control problems. There was nothing to suggest he wouldn't walk Yankees & that's a cardinal sin for any team. There was simply no excuse for this move & if for no other reason it guaranteed Manuel's demise. Only 2 teams swept the Yanks in NY all yr: TEX & TOR. This occured in the early months. So to say that a sweep in NY going into Sep would not have been big is crazy. Jerry, you wouldn't have done a much better job just sleeping on the bench. Don't think too much. It hurts more than it helps.

http://www.dailysouthtown.com/southtown/ds.../pro/021sd8.htm

Why would LA fire Dan Evans? He's assembled the best pitching staff on the planet while lowering the payroll. The team OPS was 671 & OPS vs was 657. 657 is unheard of in the modern era! They won 85 games with one of the worst offenses in the league. I think the LA brass will give Evans one more yr to correct the lineup. LA is certainly a team that KW should be talking to about shipping Koney.

I disagree with all of you. Stop looking at it as a 6MIL option because it's not. 2K4: 6mil+bonus(2mil) 2K5: 8mil+bonus(2mil) 2k6: 10mil+bonus(2mil) 2k7: 12mil+bonus(2mil) or 3mil SOX buyout. That's guaranteed $ as long as Frank opts to stay with SOX. You're talking about 27-33mil/3 guaranteed. Who is going to offer Frank more than that? Why would a team bother to offer Frank more if they will be likely to secure Frank's services through trade for the same price? If the SOX can't afford to keep Frank, then they will trade him. That's what they gained in this contract. I don't know why some in the press reported this as a bad contract for Frank. If he opts to stay through 2K6 & earns the bonuses he will make more $ than the old contract paid. The bonus money comes from top 10 in MVP, sliver slugger award, & all the other stipulations of the old dim skills clause. They turned that into a positive from negative. Frank still might earn some bonus $ this year if he finishes in top 10 in MVP. Something else to think about: HOME 29 HR's, AWAY 13 HR's It's in Frank's best interest to keep the Cell as his home team.

And he was. A minor sophomore slump and they screw him over like so many in the past. Cam hates, hates, HATES the Sox and will never ever play here unless JR is no longer the owner. Ahhh.. the list grows longer and longer. I'm not sure if it's so cut & dry like that. If Cameron is really expected to take a cut down to 2MIL thru FA then he might consider the SOX as a stepping stone to boost him numbers for a MUCH bigger pay day in 2K5. Not to mention it's not about JR as much as it's about KW. If I'm not mistaken KW & Cam got along when KW was in scouting. KW was not a part of the Koney for Cam trade & I think he was against it.

It looks like Kaz was just a pipe dream. With a Tokyo company offering him 24/3 why would he come to the states?

Why not the SOX? If he can be had for 2MIL in 2K4 it's a good fit for the SOX. Cameron seems tailor made for the Cell (2214 OPS). I like his numbers against groundball/finesse pitchers the most. And a 900+ OPS w RISP is pretty clutch. His 17SB would make a nice addition as well.

I think you are over-reacting. He shows up in Turner field. It's not like he was in attendance at Wrigley rooting for the scrubs. If he does that .. then he's a turn coat. But for right now, he's a Chicago fan & a SOX fan.

If there was ever a guy you would like to see live forever John Paul would be the one. This is very sad to hear. It even appears he is his suffering in his latter days. My prayers are with him to ease his suffering in his journey to the next world.

Why do owners in all 4 major sports continue to bid against themselves? The NFL is the closest league to realism when it comes to salaries. This owner is sicker than Tom Hicks. Hicks got more years for less $ from A-ROD. When it's all said & done, that contract will be worth about 189MIL because there are so many clauses for the Rangers to get out of after that. Who in their right mind would have offered Garnett 180/5? That's just plain stupid. The smart thing would have been to offer a contract that matches Duncan's. That's the most you could argue that Garnett is worth. MJ must be shaking his head right now.

I think you're misunderstanding this quote. The SOX payroll as it stands right now is at 69MIL. I know that's not what JR actually paid, but that's what's on the books right now for 2004. Until Everett & Alomar become FA's they are still considered SOX property. So if you lop off 15MIL from 69MIL you're looking at 54MIL which is what all of us have been saying so far. Logic does have a place on these boards. As I said before, JR has no justification for a payroll < 2001. The SOX finished with 1,939,524 in attendance. That's nearly identical to 2000 & a 300K increase from 2002. About a 17% increase from 2002. There's no justification to lowering the payroll below the 55MIL mark.

I will go with Braves PTC = Gary Sheffield scrubs PTS = A-GON 2 pick limit on both PTC & PTS just like in the regular season. I'll tally the winters after the series. There's a lot of time yet. PTS = Pick to Suck