witesoxfan

Finally a reason for a serious appreciation thread! As opposed to the farewell tour thread, which has been more about what has gone on to honor Konerko throughout the season, share your memories of his great career and accomplishments here. Personally, I think any Konerko appreciation thread begins with this: Your browser does not support iframes.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Sep 25, 2014 -> 09:20 AM) Also importantly, looking at the Tigers, they could be looking at a fair amount of slippage. If they lose Scherzer, they really can't replace him. Age may well be catching up with guys like Miguel and Verlander. Torii Hunter is a free agent. I think the Tigers have another year or two, but who knows if age and weight are catching up to Miggy or if he's been banged up. Victor Martinez is not going to do this again and he may leave for greener pastures anyways. JD Martinez has been a revelation for them, but how likely is he to even come close to repeating the year he's had? There are a lot of question marks for them moving forward, you're correct. Still, I don't even worry about that. Depending on the moves made, I don't think it's unreasonable for the Sox to be a team projected to win 85 games next year prior to the season and at that level, it's only 4 or 5 breaks over the course of a year that can push you up to 90 wins.

http://deadspin.com/stevie-johnson-drafted...team-1638997432 This is why Stevie Johnson remains one of my favorite players in the NFL.

That's not very exciting, but FYI, Dustin Ackley's second half: .270/.307/.474/.781, .341 wOBA, 122 wRC+. Ackley's versatility is exciting though. I am not high on Billy Butler. I like that he's a buy low candidate, but there's not a ton about his game that excites me.

QUOTE (StRoostifer @ Sep 24, 2014 -> 11:37 PM) Is that 99.99999999% approved by Wite? Yes.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Sep 25, 2014 -> 12:34 AM) Gregerson's going to be too expensive for another "rebuilding" year. I don't think we're ready to pay top market value for relievers like him, Miller, and some of the closers out there on the FA market. I don't think we know that this is going to be a "rebuilding" year. The Sox could easily improve by another 10 games next year and that puts them right in the middle of contention.

QUOTE (greg775 @ Sep 25, 2014 -> 03:11 AM) Is anybody THAT high on Reed? I mean he might be the best of a rotten bullpen and I wish him the best but is he a great prospect? /fixed

QUOTE (greg775 @ Sep 24, 2014 -> 05:33 PM) I thought Reed had 30 saves?? Petricka is lousy. Thank you for well thought out and reasoned response. Here is my rebuttal. Addison Reed is lousy. Thank you again.

QUOTE (Joshua Strong @ Sep 24, 2014 -> 07:32 PM) What is hard-on obsession that you guys have with Colby Rasmus? I do not want him any wear near a sox uniform. Coming off a bad year, he's not likely going to require a long-term commitment, and he has an incredibly high ceiling. If you can get him for $6-8 mill on an incentive based deal, he's worth the risk as a guy you can play against RHP and as a pinch hitter off the bench against righties. For his career, he's hit .257/.323/.465/.788, which is good for a career wOBA of .340 and a wRC+ of 112 against right handed pitching. Plus he's usually fairly good defensively and he's an athletic player with decent speed. I wouldn't be upset if he wasn't signed, but he's an upside player.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Sep 24, 2014 -> 04:34 PM) Except they went through using Lindstrom, Belisario and even Putnam to disastrous results....only to get to the point where we now have a reliever NOBODY believes should be the heir-apparent closer going into 2015 (unless they don't care about competing for the playoffs until 2015). You are missing the point. I didn't care about the means of acquiring said closer or said closer's future prospects as the closer. The point was that the Sox DID have a replacement for Addison Reed.

QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Sep 24, 2014 -> 04:30 PM) Did "dane" disappear when your friend did? Naturally, but the reasoning we heard was that "Dane didn't want to be in the league if I wasn't in the league" or something along those lines, which makes sense if you don't know anybody...but also makes sense if you just wanted to run 2 teams. I didn't have any reason to believe that he would actively mislead us, and there weren't any lop-sided trades between the two, but it was a pretty active league as far as trash talking goes and he just never said anything even when people talked to him.

QUOTE (dasox24 @ Sep 24, 2014 -> 03:31 PM) I thought about it. But in the end, it's all my best friends from college so I'm not going to want to leave. The hope is that this league will last a long time and is an additional way to keep in touch with everyone. I will, however, suggest we replace our commish next year. Not going to let him ruin this whole thing we have going. We had to replace the commish in our fraternity league from college. It sucks, because he's obviously a close friend of the group, but he was inactive and slow in getting invites out and getting the league set up, and he was bad about letting the league run and govern itself as opposed to just making decisions. He was also bad about replacing guys - we had a guy get booted from the league because he was technically blacklisted within the fraternity even though he kept a close relationship with everyone, but there were a few members who had a problem with that - and we had a guy named "Dane" in our league who he swore was a legitimate person but we all facetiously suggested was just a second team for him. Given that he was the commish, we had no way of checking out if he was legit or not. After that clusterf***, he basically said "I'm out next year, find a new commish next year guys." We did and it's awesome.

QUOTE (greg775 @ Sep 24, 2014 -> 02:08 PM) No. I don't like his pitching motion; I don't like his control; I'm not a Jones guy. Except on the Chicago White Sox. The Sox trade a closer with no replacement. Oops, Nate Jones lovers say he'd have been fine. Look, trading for a third baseman is fine. The Sox thought Davidson would man the position for 10 years. At this point he looks like Josh Fields. We'll see if he gets it together. None of us want Davidson to stink. I will eat my words gladly if he quickly becomes a home run hitting version of Crede or a new Ventura. One thing we do know is in 2014, on a team that had some life and looked like a possible .500 team, the bullpen totally killed all chances of .500. Now, .500 wouldn't have been a playoff team so it doesn't matter except to those of us who hate the fact our team has become a joke in the division. But the White Sox did replace Reed as closer and their current closer, Jake Petricka, has been just as effective as Reed was and has been.

Tony Stewart will not be charged with any crimes.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Sep 24, 2014 -> 12:58 PM) Why would we just magically assume Ethier's going to put up a 2 WAR converting to the American League when he's a 0 WAR or slighly negative player right now...? And that Dayan would be a -0.7 again in 2015 when he's the far younger player? That's not even taking into consideration WAR/$. If Viciedo has another bad season, you non-tender him, but you're stuck for years with an aging Ethier (see Dunn/Rios/Danks). Believing that playing Carlos Sanchez over Gordon Beckham next year will make much of a difference...not buying that one, either. Joba? Yikes. I'm not even going to buy that Santana's going to pitch that well as is being projected, back in the AL again with how tough the Tigers, Indians and even Twins (Buxton and Sano) and Royals (only losing Butler and Aoki, Perez and Hosmer should be better, along with Moustakas) look offensively. The Twins have a bunch of guys in Vargas, Arcia, Salazar, Plouffe, Dozier, Suzuki, Mauer, Buxton, Sano, etc., that will be able to hurt you.... Finally, assuming Rodon's already going to be a +3....well, we would have said the same thing about Erik Johnson heading into this year. I'm not counting on those numbers until 2015. Did you even read the post or just look at the names? Because I clearly state that "names aren't important but will be included as examples." We assume these things because they are projection based predictions. We do not assume anything about Dayan Viciedo's future because he's been a bad player with the White Sox and was a bad player this year. I don't doubt that he can improve, but he WAS a -0.7 WAR player this year. And, I'm assuming Rodon is a 3 WAR player because he's an incredibly talented pitcher. He could be a 4 or 5 WAR player or a 1 WAR player or he might not pitch in the majors. Assuming he WON'T pitch in the majors next year is a far worse assumption. Frankly, picking apart a post like this is ridiculous. I'm providing an example of how the Sox could turn around quickly using WAR (wherein I make it a point to say "TAKE THIS WITH A GIANT, GIANT GRAIN OF SALT) without spending a lot. There would a lot of differentiation, but there was nothing in that post that was really that objectionable or unreasonable.

QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Sep 24, 2014 -> 11:56 AM) Well then call me crazy. I just don't like Morneau as I think it puts the Sox in the same exact spot they were last year with Dunn. Morneau's a different hitter and a better pure hitter than Dunn was, but you are stuck at 1B and DH with those guys. It'd be nice to use the DH spot to keep guys' bats in the lineup while resting their legs a bit. QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Sep 24, 2014 -> 11:58 AM) There a lot of reasons to explain Ethier's downside that aren't he's past his prime. Most of them have to go with inconsistent playing time and overall unhappiness with the situation. I think Ethier is a really nice fit who can play a solid LF and could also fill in at 1B and DH and play match-ups. You then find a right handed bat as well who you can use in the outfield and at DH as well. You still have plenty of AB's to go for Semien / Sanchez / Johnson too. And this is why I think Ethier makes the most sense to me.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Sep 24, 2014 -> 11:40 AM) Please define exactly how low this no-risk Rasmus deal is going to go...I'm not buying it. He's going to get a lot more than Keppinger, Downs and Paulino combined per season. If by per season, you mean on a 1 year contract, I might agree. I think someone might be willing to give him $8-10 mill for this season as a flyer. I don't think anybody would give more than $5-6 mill on a multi-year deal for him with how badly he played this year and how inconsistent he's been throughout his career.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Sep 24, 2014 -> 11:38 AM) Wasn't that pretty much Adam Dunn's situation when he was acquired...had slumped for 2+ months to end a season? Or Scott Downs? It was also the case of Jim Thome and Jermaine Dye too.

What the hell, let's look at it through the context of WAR First, these are the offensive players that we'll hypothesize won't be on the roster next season in any sort of meaningful way: De Aza - 0.6 Dunn - 0.1 Michael Taylor - -0.2 Josh Phegley - -0.2 Gordon Beckham - -0.4 Andy Wilkins - -0.6 Dayan Viciedo - -0.7 Paul Konerko - -1.0 Leury Garcia - -1.1 That's -3.5 WAR that is replaced offensively. Pitching wise, these are the guys we can assume won't be with the Sox: Ronald Belisario - 0.6 Scott Downs - 0.1 Charles Leesman - -0.1 Taylor Thompson - -0.1 Matt Lindstrom - -0.1 Frank Francisco - -0.1 Maikel Cleto - -0.2 Andre Rienzo - -0.4 Felipe Paulino - -0.5 That's -0.8 WAR that is no longer being added (and this is not including Leury Garcia and Adam Dunn, who accounted for -0.1 WAR pitching). This removes context, but some of those innings were incredibly important and some were totally meaningless. We'll leave it as such. We'll assume the Sox make, bare minimum, 4 moves (names aren't important but will be included as examples), and other reasonable assumptions about others. Andre Ethier (2 WAR) for De Aza/Viciedo - +2 Ervin Santana (2.5 WAR) for John Danks - +1.7 Scott Caroll (0 WAR) for multiple mopups - +0.3 Joba Chamberlain (1 WAR) for Belisario/Lindstrom - +0.5 Carlos Rodon (3 WAR) for Carrol/Rienzo/Paulino - +2.5 Carlos Sanchez (1 WAR) for Carlos Sanchez/Gordon Beckham - +1.7 WAR Marcus Semien (1 WAR) for Marcus Semien/Leury Garcia - +1.8 WAR That alone adds 10.5 WAR. If you assume that the Sox will use guys like Gillaspie and Ethier at 1B (and yes, raBBit, I thought Ethier had played more 1B in his past) with Semien as the utility player, you've removed the two biggest blackholes offensively. And, if you rotate guys around, Dunn's WAR as a DH will not be hard to improve either. Further, if you remove guys who are likely not going to play in games that matter (Wilkins, Phegley, Taylor), you can add another win to that total as well. Assuming 2 more wins in the next 5 games, the Sox will end the year at 74-88. Add roughly 11-12 wins to that, and the team is at 85 or 86 wins. That's a team that's in contention. Again, I generally hate looking at WAR as black and white as this, so take this with a huge, huge grain of salt, but the concept of contention without spending a large chunk of money is most definitely possible.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Sep 24, 2014 -> 09:46 AM) I just meant in general...for the right player. I'd rather give up those other four guys together than Montas. I don't think we'll even remember any of them five years from now, except in a very vague way, like Jon Gilmore or Santos Rodriguez. I have no problem giving up Tim Anderson for the right player, I was talking specifically about Justin Morneau, hence why I listed B level prospects. If he were eligible to be traded, I'd give up Carlos Rodon too, but they'd have to wait until June or July to do so. I mean, you talk to Miami and say "here are Tim Anderson and Carlos Rodon, you name 4-5 other prospects and give us Giancarlo Stanton and Jose Fernandez and we're in business." I'd trade Sale and Abreu in the right deals too, but the asking prices would be so outrageous that it would not be justifiable for the acquiring team to do so.

QUOTE (shysocks @ Sep 24, 2014 -> 09:39 AM) Ethier is very logical because of his position, but if he's washed up then we just have another albatross. Depending on how much money LA throws in. And maybe he'll be fine. He wouldn't be the first guy to have a crappy age-32 season and then rebound. Jayson Werth comes to mind. He could thrive again with regular playing time. So many if's. This is why I'm not a GM. Without looking at names, if you tell me a guy has had 1 good season in the last 5 and another has had 4 good seasons in the last 5, I think the player most likely to have a good season the following year is the guy with 4 good seasons. Yes, there is a risk, but there is with any move. Ethier has a track record productivity but he's seen his playing time diminish substantially this year due to a logjam in the OF and 1B which can mess with a player's psyche and rhythm, both of which are important to production. The Dodgers would have to include a considerable amount to make the deal worthwhile - he's guaranteed $54.5 mill over the next 3 seasons, so I'd say they need to cover approximately $24 million, at the bare minimum (John Danks just so happens to be owed $28.4 mill over the next 2 seasons, which is $26 million over 3 seasons). You give them Danks, Trayce Thompson, and Kevan Smith/Adrian Nieto/Josh Phegley and see where they're at.

QUOTE (flavum @ Sep 24, 2014 -> 09:03 AM) It's supposed to rain all day in NY tomorrow. Perfect. IT'S LIKE RAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAIN FOR YOUR LAST BASEBALL GAME

QUOTE (shysocks @ Sep 24, 2014 -> 09:12 AM) I agree, I would never give up all four of those guys for Morneau. Maybe if this were five years ago. I'd have difficulty taking the plunge for any of the players you named. I'm closest on Montas because of the org's ability to find pitchers and his injury issues creating just enough worry. But I guess I don't want Morneau badly enough. Not that I know if that's what it would take; I'm terrible at figuring out guys' trade value. I just don't think that the cost that will be required will be worth it. There's no long-term value and, given his concussion history and streakiness, there's no guarantee that there's good short-term value either. Based on his cost and what he'd be brought in to do, you have to play him and cross your fingers because he's your answer. This isn't like the Ethier suggestion where he's signed for 3 more years and can play the other 3 outfield positions along with 1B, and you'd likely have some of the contract picked up as well. Of those B level prospects I listed - there are a few others in the organization too - I could find a match for Ethier. It may also not take a B level prospect to get Ethier, coming off a down year. If the Sox are going to get an older LHB, I think that's the most logical guy to target.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Sep 24, 2014 -> 09:01 AM) Learn some White Sox history dude. As long as this organization has a healthy Abreu and Sale, it isn't the worst anything. http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/CHW/1970.shtml Oh, and people like to complain about attendance, but that team AVERAGED 6,115 a game.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Sep 23, 2014 -> 05:58 PM) I wouldn't give up Montas. Too much upside as either a starter or closer. Don't care about giving up any of those other four...heck...all four of them together. For Justin Morneau? I think you're crazy.