witesoxfan

QUOTE (Dam8610 @ Sep 24, 2014 -> 01:54 AM) As for the thread premise, here goes: DO acquire at least two hitters, preferably OF, one of which should be LH and ideally both starter caliber. If I were doing the shopping, I would be looking at potential guys and reclamation projects here. A guy who the front office thinks could be a middle of the order bat is a must, but other than that I would look for good defense and low K rates. One of these holes may be able to be filled internally with Semien depending on how okay you are with he and Sanchez both playing major roles in 2015. DO acquire a solid, #2-3 type RHSP, and a couple of quality bullpen pieces. Doing this will place the Sox in the best position they can be in to contend next year, while also giving some flexibility at the trade deadline if things break poorly, as they did this year. Doing this will also give the Sox a starting 5 that can at least compete for the first half without having to force their hand on Rodon, assuming that you believe that two of Noesi, Danks, Carroll, and Bassitt can give you quality 4 and 5 guys. The other plus from that group is the two that don't make the rotation may be able to be used to improve the bullpen, which will need several upgrades from any and all sources possible for this team to compete next year. DO shop everyone on the ML team except for Sale, Q, Abreu, Eaton, A. Garcia, and anyone under the age of 25. To me, if the price is right on anyone else, you take the deal. The only players that would require a major return in my book would be Ramirez and Gillaspie, because I feel that the production of either would be particularly difficult to replace, and would create a ripple effect of platoon problems, unless you feel Semien can replace Gillaspie's production. Also, if you can sucker someone into taking Danks's contact, great, but unlikely. Viciedo would be a great guy to move as well, especially if you can get anything of value for him. DO NOT hand John Danks a 2015 rotation slot. To me, if the team goes out and signs a #2-3 caliber starter, then rotation slots 4 and 5 should be completely up for grabs. I have a feeling Noesi will pull down one of those slots because he has pitched fairly well for the White Sox this year, but I would like to see Bassitt, maybe Carroll, and hell even Erik Johnson get a shot at a starting slot. I hate the idea of making decisions on sunk costs, and to me, the only reason Danks would even be considered for the 2015 rotation is the sunk cost of his contract. If that's the case, then make him the long man and give a guy like Bassitt a shot to develop. That would be ideal to me, with the eventuality being that Rodon takes one of the 4 or 5 slots when he is ready. DO NOT spend big money in free agency on an old, "proven" bat. Signing a guy like Victor Martinez would set this team back in its goals as he is 36 and will get WAY too much on the open market. Paying a 36 year old $20 million per year for 3 years is obscenely stupid unless you feel that that player can put your team on a championship contending level. Without significant other spending, Victor Martinez would not do that for the White Sox. Nor would Russell Martin, nor any of the other 32-36 year olds available. DO NOT go into "Win Now" mode. This is a ~75 win team. To be a playoff team, it will take a ~15-20 win improvement. It would be nigh impossible to gain that ground this off-season, and it would be bad to do so for the overarching long term goal of building a consistent championship contender. Gaining another 5-10 games this off-season should be the goal, with the full force of "Win Now" mode coming into effect after the 2015 season. Obviously, that doesn't mean start trading away the farm at that point, but I feel as though 2016 is going to be the realistic beginning of the White Sox competitive window with this core. I agree with all of this, but just want to note on the bolded - that's a lot of crap the Sox are shopping. It's the same problem they had at the deadline this year and it's the major problem with the current roster construction, but it's a very good problem to have. Right now, the Sox have a few very talented, high upside players on the roster - specifically Sale, Quintana, Abreu, Eaton, and possibly Garcia (though I'm still timid, he's acquainted himself fairly well and he should be a good bat moving forward, if nothing else). The problem is filling in around them - the back of the rotation needs help, the bullpen is very mediocre, and there are still holes and upgradeable positions throughout the lineup. Those are much, much easier to fill than giant, glaring holes where you need big time production. Basically, if you shop those other guys, don't expect a lot because they are not very good.

QUOTE (shysocks @ Sep 23, 2014 -> 04:05 PM) This is where I can't go along with you. I don't want the Sox to suck anymore, and giving Andy Wilkins lots of plate appearances probably means we're resigned to continue sucking. I think the Sox are ready to stop sucking. The cost of Morneau won't be high because other GM's see the con list. If it is too high, move on. Otherwise you take the plunge and hope he can fill a need. And if not, you've lost out on some B-level prospect. Who knows exactly what they ask for, but if they insist on one of Montas, Beck, Rondon, Ravelo, and Sanchez, which of those are you most willing to deal? Those are all B-level prospects with fairly good upside. I don't see them taking a guy like Trayce Thompson or Jacob May or Kevan Smith. If I am trading a prospect (or multiple prospects) at this point - and I have no aversion to doing so - it's not for a guy who might be forced to retire due injuries or a guy who's 34 on a 1 year deal.

QUOTE (Chilihead90 @ Sep 23, 2014 -> 03:27 PM) I know this means absolutely nothing, but just reading the name "Mike Nikorak" makes me cringe. Sounds like a perfect name for a guy we will won't be talking about in 3 years. Has bust written all over his dumb name. Give me a D.J. Stewart or Brendan Rodgers or a Daz Cameron. Those sound like stars. I used the names "Porcello" and "Poreda" to justify their major league chances when they were drafted too.

QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Sep 23, 2014 -> 01:46 PM) At some point you need innings eaters and he could fit that bill, especially with some of the injuries. Haren is a FA as well so he could slide in. They have had injury issues in back end of rotation and they clearly need to clean up the clubhouse a bit. Right now there are too many issues internally and a lot of it would appear to be tied to the logjam of outfielders and players not comfortable/happy in their current roles. I honestly don't know what else Dodgers could do? Danks seems more attractive then others but when giving up expensive players with big contracts you can't expect much in return. At least in this case, we get a solid play. Hell, if it is Ethier, you get a guy with a good OPS + every year but this year. Is he done, could be, but it could also be largely driven by his attitude issues. That said, you got to manage the personality. I don't know, maybe they'd rather have Crawford who is more of an injury risk. Either way, we need outfielders and left handed bats and both of these guys, while extremely overpaid, have a shot at still being productive players and filling needs. FYI, I also think Ethier makes a lot of sense for the Sox too. I don't know how they get him - whether it's Danks or not - but it's a move that makes a lot of sense on the surface, especially if the Sox can find a productive way out of the Danks contract.

QUOTE (scs787 @ Sep 23, 2014 -> 12:36 PM) Not sure why it HAS to be an OFer, and with that said, the guy I have my eye on is Justin Morneau. Rockies wanna move Rosario to 1B which makes Justin available. This is how I see it: Here's what's working against Justin Morneau -He's 34 years old -He'd have to be traded for -He's at his highest value in 6 seasons -He's been really bad in 3 of the past 4 season -He only plays 1B, limiting bench versatility -He's one blow to the head away from being done forever and ever Here's what's working for Justin Morneau -He's left handed -He's been good this year Frankly, even knowing how poor he's been in the majors, I'd rather give Andy Wilkins a shot as opposed to trading for Justin Morneau. Trading for a 1B right now is just not ideal, no matter the cost.

QUOTE (greg775 @ Sep 23, 2014 -> 03:25 PM) Max you could still reverse the trade and make Reed a setup guy like the Royals have in Davis. Wade Davis is a much better pitcher than Addison Reed.

QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Sep 23, 2014 -> 12:22 PM) I agree with that -- I think the first thing you do the second the WS ends is get on the phone and try to get a good, controllable catcher. Russell Martin would be a back-up plan to that that I'd be very happy with if I was Hahn. And if he isn't going to cost me $100m or something insane. However, while I'd absolutely trade Viciedo for ANYTHING, I don't think Rosario should be our target. I'm of the belief that catcher defense is mroe important than we can quantify, and Rosario is barely a catcher. But yeah, if they'd take Viciedo for some reason... This is why I'm not that down on Flowers. Even with the highest career strikeout rate of all time, I think he provides enough to justify 400 or so plate appearances a year, the staff is comfortable with him, and he has turned into a really solid catcher.

QUOTE (scs787 @ Sep 23, 2014 -> 11:38 AM) Wouldn't that be blowing the load though? Which was one of your don'ts? Cutting out 3 of those zeros seems much more reasonable. I think we can make an exception for a guy who's going to save the planet from imminent destruction.

QUOTE (Soxfest @ Sep 23, 2014 -> 11:28 AM) Sox and Danks need to part ways hopefully a trade partner in found this winter. Danks salad days are behind him. So he just eats meat now a days, eh? Maybe I need to reconsider wanting to get rid of him.

How could I have forgotten the most obvious one? MOST OBVIOUS DO ON THE PLANET 1) Sign Adam Dunn to 735 year, $1,000,000,000,000 contract

I'll go with more general guidelines as opposed to more confined and restrictive moves you've made. YEPS 1) Do attempt to buy low on talented players. These are players who will be discounted somewhat who won't require long-term deals and can provide some insane value both for the Sox and on the trade market. The optimal guy on the free agent market is Colby Rasmus as he fits the Sox needs for another outfielder while offering insane upside to the Sox. He's very much a TTO player, which will turn a lot of guys off, but the upside is high enough to warrant a gamble. 2) Do whatever you can to trade John Danks. He's been discussed quite often, and at the deadline I was on the side of keeping him as it didn't make sense to eat money and get rid of him, but I think this team is a lot closer to competing than even I realized. They're likely going to end up eating most of his contract, but there are ways around that, primarily eating another bad contract that the Sox can find some value in. When looking at possible returns, I look at the Sox needs - outfielder, rotation arm, and bullpen arms - and figure out which is most a trade that can be made. I don't know the exact team, but someone with bad contracts and a need for starting pitching. My gut right now tells me Philadelphia is a possible place to trade with a guy like Domonic Brown coming back, but who knows. 3) In coordination with 2, do bring in a good starting pitcher. Again, this is not shedding all the prospects and bringing in a guy like Cueto or signing James Shields to a mega contract, but acquire a solid 3 WAR starting pitcher, essentially a quality #3. Even if you have to spend a bit of money, this will be worth it as the additions of Rodon and said guy can add a total of perhaps 6 WAR to the rotation. That is a team that is competing. NOPES 1) Do not spend a lot of money on part-time players. This includes relievers. With the amount of decent depth the club as well as the number of options the Sox should be able to acquire for cheap, there is no reason to give a Keppinger or Linebrink type of contract out this offseason. Just continue looking for talented non-tenders and waiver claims and keep moving forward. This does not mean don't show interest - there are guys out there who would be worth multi-year deals at the right price (such as Andrew Miller) - but be cautious. 2) Similar to 1 in the yeps, do not buy players at their highest value. This kind of works against Russell Martin, who I think is a special case, but in general, this will only result in negative cost-value. The Sox, currently, are not at a point where they need a guys such as that. Perhaps following the 2015 or 2016 season they can look towards those moves. 3) Do not "blow the load" this offseason. There is no need to spend a huge sum of money on a free agent, nor is there any reason to trade a huge package of minor leaguers for a major leaguer. Keep the ship steady, make incremental upgrades, and put forth the most talented roster you can without making brash or irrational moves. The Sox are not ready for that yet.

QUOTE (Harry Chappas @ Sep 23, 2014 -> 09:40 AM) Mike and Mike and their experts trying to explain how he will be good Mully and Hanley basically said he sucked. The Bears gave him every opportunity to beat them and he would not take it, Mike Greenberg is a Jets fan. That's why he thinks he'll be good. There is so much Aaron Brooks to Geno Smith's game. The occasional flash of a guy who can make a good throw into tight space, and the other times where he just chucks it up and hopes his guy comes down with it.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Sep 23, 2014 -> 09:38 AM) Here are my concerns: 1) You have a speed-based player turning 31 before next season... 2) His defensive value is lessened by playing LF at USCF compared to CF in Washington 3) You really HAVE to get big-time power from the DH position (as well as Avisail and Conor/Semien) if you have Eaton/Span/Micah Johnson in the same line-up. 4) He's been pretty consistent, a 737/707/765 OPS line over the last three years, averaging around a 3.5 WAR. That said, he had two very subpar seasons with MINNY where he was just a 2ish WAR guy, and that's concerning since he would be back in the AL and also facing some really tough pitching staffs in DET, CLE and KC. I'm willing to pay $12-13 million for a 3.5 WAR guy, but not a 2 who's going to presumably be declining. That said, Span/Eaton/Micah would create some interesting run-producing combinations...and bring a lot better defense to the table than what we've gotten out of Viciedo/DeAza the past 2-3 seasons. That's GOT to be a priority for Hahn, to shore up that hole both offensively and defensively. To summarize, for my money, I'd rather give Aoki two seasons with a mutual option, but Span's the better player...worth the difference in the end?, yes at 3.5 and not at all around 2. However, he deserves some additional benefit of the doubt as a playoff-experienced veteran and leader. We need to bring in more of those type of character guys, since Eaton can't be the only leader of the team, especially when he's injured. It would/could also make for an interesting debate about paying Span/Rasmus/Markakis $12 million vs. Melky Cabrera $15 million over 3 years. I'm not going to call it a "steal" unless we also believe we "stole" Alex Rios for the amount of production vs. his salary numbers. For the record, I'm not suggesting the Sox acquire him, just that he's a steal at $9 mill. Still... 1) Denard Span does not have to steal a lot of bases to be a good base runner and athletic players age much better than unathletic players. As long as he remains a good hitter, the legs should still be good enough to provide positive value on the bases even if he's not stealing a ton of bases. 2) He's still a very good defender, so whether it'd be him or Eaton in LF, they'd have great range in LF and CF. 3) You don't need power to be a good team. You need good hitters who can extend innings. Dayan Viciedo has a hell of a lot more power and a much better Iso than Span (.174 vs .115), yet there's no way in hell you'd prefer Viciedo over Span right now or moving forward. 4) 2 WAR is worth anywhere from $11-14 mill on the open market, which means he'd still be providing surplus value. I don't know why the Nats would trade him, as it makes very little sense from their end, but he's a good player and I'd gladly take him on the Sox.

QUOTE (bmags @ Sep 22, 2014 -> 09:20 AM) Went to bed needing 4 more points from Cam, who was trailing in the fourth. I thought it would be a piece of cake. Woke up, saw they scored another touchdown, oh, it was a pass, nice. Oh...it was from Anderson. Cam Newton always just seem to be more valuable in theory than he ever is in practice. I'm sure he'll get me 65 points in a game I'd win anyway to preserve his "season points". But man is it inconsistent. This was actually why I consciously avoided him this year. I had him last year and there are weeks where he'll put up like 25-35 points for you and you think you're justified, but then he comes out and puts up 8s or 10s with 214 yards passing and 18 rushing yards and it's just maddeningly inconsistent.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Sep 23, 2014 -> 09:10 AM) 10:$0.75M, 11:$1M, 12:$3M, 13:$4.75M, 14:$6.5M, 15:$9M club option ($0.5M buyout) That's a pretty steep price to pay for Span, salary-wise, not to mention talent surrendered in trade. I'd probably pass at that price, although he is very familiar with the AL Central (especially the stadiums), so that would be a huge plus in his favor. $9 million for Denard Span is a steal. He'd get $12-15 mill per year on the free agent market.

QUOTE (greg775 @ Sep 22, 2014 -> 09:23 PM) I was reading Toronto put Buehrle on waivers this season. How bout a trade where they pay 3/4 of his contract and we send them a minor league stiff and bring back Mark? Then we could move one of the other lefties to the bullpen. Or Rodon could start his career in the bullpen for a year. Yes, because all Toronto would want back for paying $15 million and losing a capable mid-rotation starter is some minor league stiff. And Rick Hahn has personally said on numerous occasions that Rodon will not pitch out of the bullpen, so no on that one too.

I think Bassitt will start the year in AAA and be the 6th starter for the White Sox down there. It's nice to see he's doing this, but let's see how he handles AAA too. Regardless of any moves they make in the offseason, I think he and Carroll will be the guys on the outside looking in come May 1st or so.

QUOTE (Bigsoxhurt35 @ Sep 22, 2014 -> 04:58 PM) Well see. I'd like to get him. There is a ton of downside to bringing him in. It's been discussed here ad nauseum, but I do not believe it would be a good move for the Sox.

Pulling out all the stops, I see. Even Sean Lowe.

Even with the cost being abnormally high for relievers, the Sox have shown in the past that's where they like to spend money in the offseason, likely due to the diminished cost of bringing those guys in. If you get a bust, it's not a Barry Zito type of bust, but more along the lines of Scott Linebrink on the really bad end and Downs/Belisario otherwise. It really makes me wonder who or how many relievers they'll be in on. I've speculated before that I think they'll show interest in Andrew Miller, but I also think he will ultimately price himself out of the Sox range. I personally like Surkamp over Snodgress too, but I think that's going to be pretty even going into Spring Training next year no matter what. Whoever is better wins the job outright.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Sep 22, 2014 -> 12:48 PM) It's just insane to me the difference in power between the baseball union and the football union...with all the money the NFL has right now, why on earth do the players not strike and demand guaranteed contracts? I know more of an emphasis has been made on guaranteed money recently, but jeesh... Frankly, I think that's a part of the demise of baseball's popularity. There are guys getting paid absurd amounts of money that would be released or outrighted to the minors if they weren't guaranteed that money. No Braves fan wants to watch BJ Upton play, even if he's still incredibly talented, and in the NFL, guys that bust get released all the time and it really incentivizes working towards staying in shape and being on the top of your game at all time. If they could just release those guys and bring in someone else, it would make watching the game a hell of a lot more interesting.

QUOTE (The Ultimate Champion @ Sep 20, 2014 -> 12:04 PM) Admittedly I haven't been watching a ton of White Sux baseball this year, usually I'll just watch an inning or PA or maybe a couple innings at any given time and I'll have the radio on otherwise if at all. So I'm not sure what the deal is here but a couple weeks ago I looked up Q's season numbers and was suprised to see he looked like he'd miss or maybe just barely hit the 200IP plateau this year. I know he's had some bad starts like the Royals game where he gave up lik 45 runs in 2 innings, and I know he has his games where the pitch count goes way up early but I certainly hope Robin hasn't been pulling this guy around the 100 pitch mark routinely. Even if it comes with a slight increase in ERA and decrease in peripheral stats, in a rebuilding year the manager needs to do everything he can to get someone like Q to 220IP. Again I haven't been watching enough to know when Robin has been pulling him. Maybe fangraphs has pitches per start or something? Robin famously didn't trust Quintana much at all his first season but he has shown some continued faith in Sale this year (which I like, even though Sale is faltered in some of those situations, because it's necessary for his development). So maybe Robin has given him a long leash & Q just hasn't been quite that good, but if not, and Robin has been cutting him short based on pitch count then that's a pretty big developmental error on his part IMO. http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/...p&year=2014 He's been around 100 pitches per game, but on the surface, it looks hard to criticize him being pulled in any of those spots.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Sep 22, 2014 -> 12:08 PM) Atlanta-Journal Constitution Hmmm Sounds like the Sox under Greg Walker, huh?

Braves fired Frank Wren

QUOTE (fathom @ Sep 19, 2014 -> 04:26 PM) The Reed trade was significantly better on paper than the Santos one. I absolutely agree 100%, just wanted to cite the example.