witesoxfan

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Oct 2, 2014 -> 09:50 AM) And if JR wants it, it will happen. Honestly, I think we have already gotten the shopping list between bits of what Jerry, Kenny, and Rick have said. We know they want a RHSP. We know they want a LH power hitter. We know they have been working hard on a deal to bring in someone through a 3 way deal, which could still happen. We know they are going to address the pen. Any speculation about the off season should be based on those points. They are also doing their own cost/benefit and risk/reward analysis on all of these areas. They will prioritize these positions based on how and what they feel this team needs to get to a competitive level. What value does a RHSP add if they can't shed the contract of John Danks? Can they add a RHSP who is perhaps riskier but who has a higher ceiling BY trading John Danks? Is giving up a 2nd round pick and $17.5 million over a 3 year deal worth giving to Victor Martinez if they can get Andre Ethier at a cheaper cost? How much value does a relief pitcher add to the team and is it worth spending an exponential amount more on a guy like David Robertson, Luke Gregorson, or Andrew Miller compared to others? It'd be nice if they could go out and just get ALL the players, but that's not realistic. There are names they are interested in, but this is the period of time where they begin whittling those names away and prioritizing not only what they feel they need but also by the quality of the player. Perhaps a left handed bat is their top priority, but they feel that a certain right handed pitcher adds more to the team than a certain left handed bat. It's an inexact science but the process will be solid. Frankly, I expect to the Sox "interested" in a lot of names this winter.

QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ Oct 2, 2014 -> 09:12 AM) Sox need all the bullpen help they can get It would be awesome if he had actually turned into a good pitcher. Then you can run him out as a reliever and as a defensive replacement in the outfield.

QUOTE (bmags @ Oct 1, 2014 -> 06:34 PM) Can somebody tell me why a hitting coach for a major league baseball team should be entitled to their position free of criticism? It may indeed be an impossible task. They may very well be victim to circumstances outside of their control. They may be scapegoats for organizational failures, but in the end they will still need to show results in spite of all of that and if not, there are thousands willing to take over and try a better approach. There are many people a lot worse off than MLB hitting coaches. I don't mean to speak for Dick Allen here, but I think his big thing is this: if Greg Walker or Jeff Manto get blamed or fired because the offense underperforms, regardless of the talent on hand, why is Don Cooper continually given a free pass and not criticized when the pitching staff in recent years has been mediocre to dreadful, regardless of talent on hand? So many times, it matters not who coaches but insteaad who your players are.

As we go throughout this melancholic life through the drab and dreary, slumping and carrying our tired feet one step at a time on the ever-so-slow process towards our grave, we occasionally come across a ray of sunshine that ultimately changes our life to the point where you, as a single representative of humanity, can say "I'm a better person today than I was yesterday." I recently switch to flushable wipes. I'm a better person than I was yesterday.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Oct 1, 2014 -> 06:29 PM) I don't quite understand that last sentence....compensates for? QUOTE (StRoostifer @ Oct 1, 2014 -> 06:38 PM) I think he's saying that signing two free agents with gualifying offers is worth the Sox losing their 2nd and 3rd round picks. Right. This is essentially what Baltimore did last year. The opportunity cost for bringing in one guy with a qualifying offer is giving up the second round pick, so you have to weigh the risk/reward of that one free agent against that one pick. If you bring in two players who receive qualifying offers, you give up a third round pick, which is valued less and is worse than a second round pick, while (for the most part) the rest of the teams in the majors are weighing giving up a first or second round pick for that player, so you are immediately gving up less than those teams. Thus, by signing two free agents who have been made qualifying offers, you are diversifying your risks while giving up a lesser valued asset to do so. Preferably you just don't give up anything and you can sign good players without giving up draft picks, but if the most talented players are receiving QO's, I feel you are at an advantage comparatively speaking by bringing in two of them as opposed to just the one. It also depends on the possible upside of these guys as well. If Player A is viewed as a 1.5 WAR reliever with no draft pick compensation and Player B is a 2 WAR player tied to draft pick compensation, you would try to sign Player A, even at a slightly higher AAV, compared to player B to retain the draft pick. Just that, if you do sign Player B in this instance, you are only giving up a 3rd round pick as opposed to a 2nd.

QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Oct 1, 2014 -> 07:32 PM) Adam Dunn was a 135 wRC+ hitter when we got him and he was about a 110 wRC+ hitter for us his last three years. Even completely ignoring 2011, I was expecting a lot more out of him. I've never disagreed or disputed this, and even taking his first year out, which is arguably the worst season in baseball history, he was a disappointment in his last 3. All I was getting at was that you can't say he was an unproductive hitter. Overall, he was not a good player - he was slow which hindered his ability to run the bases well and he was terrible wherever you put him on defense. And he was not good against left handed pitching either. But, when you could DH him against RHP, he was a productive bat in the lineup. That's all I've been saying.

Huston Street seems to be the type of pitcher this front office is moving away from. Bit more finesse, throws a lot of fly balls, diminishing velocity. I think if Robertson gets to free agency without a QO, the Sox will make a major push for him. There's also a possiblity that, if he does, the Sox still go after him and then go after another guy who received a QO. It seems weird to think that - signing 2 QO guys gives up 2 draft picks - but then it's essentially a 2nd and a 3rd for those two guys, which really helps even the loss of those draft picks out.

QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Oct 1, 2014 -> 04:14 PM) All of those are fantastic. I have a sentimental attachment to the intentional walk simply because you have to make the guy throw intentional balls. Craziness usually does not ensue, but can on occasion and that's the fun part of the game. Otherwise, I love everything else.

QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Oct 1, 2014 -> 04:12 PM) One lesser pile of crap doesn't make the other one crap. Both are not middle of the order hitters on contending teams. At least Viciedo is young with good bat speed but his complete and utter lack of OBP is horrendous but OBP in and of isn't the same. A walk is not as good as a single. Don't care how many people will disagree, it isn't. Nobody has ever said it is, but a walk is also better than making an out. There's no point in arguing this anymore, we know how everyone feels, Adam Dunn is retired, and we will probably never see a player quite like him ever again. I just get upset when people say that Adam Dunn was "horrible" or he "was not productive" when all the numbers we have on record indicate these descriptors are incorrect. Nobody is saying he was good; I (or we) are saying he was a productive hitter who was incredibly flawed. A player with his line has a spot in the 6th or 7th spot in a really good lineup, but depending upon him for run production or to be your cleanup hitter is a mistake.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Oct 1, 2014 -> 04:12 PM) Yeah, I don't care what the writer said, I was talking more about Kenny's quote. That is the only thing that matters out of the article. I do think they'll see two relievers, a right handed starter, and a left handed hitter at the bare bones minimum, and I don't think Viciedo is going to be there either. 3B could be a possibility if they're interested in bringing in someone very good defensively - meaning Headley - but I see that as more of a luxury and a risk than I do an actual necessary move.

Much of this seems like speculation by Gregor, but there are some interesting possibilities in there. The Sox typically will sign relievers, even if they're overpriced to an extent, and trade for starters to minimize long-term risk. David Robertson is going to be expensive and the Yankees might even get crafty and slap him with a QO, but he's the most attractive free agent option to me.

QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Oct 1, 2014 -> 02:41 PM) What are they? http://deadspin.com/baseball-will-test-out...e-ga-1641283166

QUOTE (VAfan @ Oct 1, 2014 -> 02:49 PM) Which other baseball GM has had a major motion picture made about him, starring Brad Pitt, no less! He did not have a major motion picture made about him. There was a major motion picture that was made about the book Moneyball, which was written by Michael Lewis as he documented the Oakland Athletics' season and organizational philosophy (which was fluffed to no end). Beane did do something ground-breaking and radical when he came into the job in Oakland, and now every team in the majors is doing it. It doesn't mean he's the only smart GM in the game.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Oct 1, 2014 -> 02:47 PM) Ultimately results matter. Take Abreu off this team and Eaton, Steverson is universally and unfairly just the next idiot to hold that job. I really doubt there is anyone out there that can change many careers. You may help one guy like Walker helped Paulie when he took over midway through 2003, but Paulie was pretty good before he bottomed out in 2003. The vast majority of guys don't make big strides because of the hitting coach or wouldn't there be some sort of hitting coach saber stat? Unless they talk about it, we never really have any idea who really pays attention to these guys. IMO, they get hired for their philosophy and fired if that philosophy isn't what they preach or they don't work hard or, and I think this is what happens most often, fired just because they make cheap sacrificial lambs. Teams constantly swapping out hitting coaches don't usually see the team OBP rise or OPS rise unless they swap out a few players. One exception was when Cleveland fired Eddie Murray, but that team hated him. A friend of mine emailed me an article last year written by a club coach for youth Soccer. I wish I still had it, but basically he said there are so many parents who spend 10s of thousands of dollars to get their kid a great coach with some club, and are ultimately dissappointed because the kid winds up average, and isn't scholarship worthy. He said basically no matter how much money you spend, if your kid has average ability no matter who is showing him what, chances are he or she will wind up average. If there is somebody that makes average or even pretty good hitters great consistently, they would probably be paid more than most players. I don't disagree. Steverson is still kind of the flavor of the month, I was just kind of showing that there were some guys who made strides under Steverson, including Tyler Flowers. He is a guy with a long, loopy, slow swing who currently owns the highest career strike out rate in MLB history, but, for at least this year, he helped mold him into a productive hitter. Hitting coaches do matter, which is why teams still employ them, but I think a lot of their game is in maintainence rather than actually improving and that gets lost on people. You can't hire the best hitting coach in the world and expect a s***ty team to suddenly hit the cover off the ball, but if you have an average offense, you would hope that the hitting coach would help those guys remain average.

QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Oct 1, 2014 -> 02:37 PM) No. I think you can't ignore certain stats and he was atrocious. Not enough makeup in the world, or in this case, HR's, made up for the fact that Adam Dunn was a very bad hitter. I think that's a very narrow and shallow way of looking at it. Hitters come in all sizes, shapes, and forms, and just because a guy does his damage in a way you do not find preferable does not mean he is not a productive hitter. There are absolutely huge, glaring flaws in a style such as Dunn's, but to say he's a bad hitter almost solely based on the fact that he hit for a low average is wrong. Simply by being able to work counts and draw walks, Adam Dunn goes from being an unproductive, valueless hitter to someone who can at least keep the lineup churning. I'd much rather have Dunn DH than Dayan Viciedo.

QUOTE (greg775 @ Oct 1, 2014 -> 02:22 PM) I ask the question again ... in response to Dick Allen's great post, tell me why we love Steverson so much and hate Walker? Nobody has said they love Steverson, but there was a noticeable change in approach amongst the hitters in the lineup this year. Swing at hittable pitches, do not swing at unhittable pitches. It's much easier said than done, but there were a few guys who looked better at the plate compared to last year.

QUOTE (greg775 @ Oct 1, 2014 -> 02:21 PM) Well, his stats this year were not exactly good in relation to how much money he pocketed. So even with what you pointed out, two of his four seasons were totally unproductive. Adam Dunn had a wRC+ of 115 with the White Sox this year, which means he was 15% better than the league average. Adam Eaton also had a wRC+ of 115. He didn't hit for a very high average but he drew a lot of walks and hit for a lot of power. That's a productive hitter, which is the opposite of an unproductive hitter.

QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Oct 1, 2014 -> 12:26 PM) Saladino & Mitchell have almost no value. Viciedo isn't worth much either. I don't see much of a difference between Chris Beck (who isn't that good of a prospect in the first place) and Chris Beck plus some garbage. Again, this is a guy who would have cost at least top three 5 prospects a year ago. He won't be available that cheaply when his contact is pretty reasonable. If he were traded, he'd come at some sort of discount, but I agree with you 100%. I think, bare minimum, you are looking at Danish and Semien, and there are other teams who would gladly give up more than that I'd imagine.

QUOTE (greg775 @ Oct 1, 2014 -> 01:59 PM) You approve of the Cespedes trade and what it did to the A's? It was a worthwhile risk. Cespedes has a lot of power but he also has a lot of swing and miss ability. He's a decent player, but not a great, franchise changing player. Beane didn't think he'd be able to retain Cespedes following next season, so he went and got something for him.

QUOTE (greg775 @ Oct 1, 2014 -> 01:42 PM) p.s. Billy Beane got OWNED on the Lester deal. The A's sucked after the trade. Lester didn'tlead them to postseason greatness. Bye bye Billy Ball. You and Sabes lose. LOL. Again, the Red Sox 3 World Championships disagree with the idea that "sabes" lose, especially when EVERY team uses some form of sabermetrics in today's game.

I think anybody saying that Adam Dunn was a horrible hitter for the White Sox is completely mistaken, but he definitely didn't live up to lofty expectations. He was a horrible hitter one year and about exactly what you could expect out of him the other 3. I wish him well, hopefully he keeps winning Oscars.

QUOTE (chw42 @ Oct 1, 2014 -> 01:03 PM) 29 and his body type means maybe 2-3 more productive years. Perfect

QUOTE (Andy the Clown @ Oct 1, 2014 -> 12:21 PM) He's a DH (with no other skill besides hitting) who just slugged .380. Wanting him is demonstrably stupid. He's also going to be just 29 and has a career slugging percentage of .449. Wanting to buy low on him is not a bad idea. Going multiple years is probably not the best idea though.

QUOTE (VAfan @ Oct 1, 2014 -> 11:53 AM) Exactly!! Sorry for those who love Beane. Kenny Williams doesn't get nearly the same adoration but he has a World Series ring. Okay, the Sox have more money to spend. But still. Beane isn't the only smart GM in baseball. Please name me one person who has suggested this. Also, Kenny Williams is no longer a general manager but I have absolutely no qualms with Rick Hahn holding that position either.

QUOTE (Benchwarmerjim @ Sep 30, 2014 -> 05:16 PM) no. you guys can have him back =p No, we insist, you take him.