witesoxfan

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Oct 9, 2014 -> 10:35 AM) That's kind of the point (along with the fact that the Cardinals are bringing up 2-4 players together each year, wave after wave after wave of young talent). Obviously, the White Sox haven't developed any players worth trading to other teams, as none have developed to the point where they even had significant value in trade to another organization....unless you want to count the return on Gordon Beckham this August. We've had far too many Molinas and Zach Stewarts when we SHOULD have had the opportunity to replace guys like Santos and Edwin Jackson with young/impactful big league talent. Essentially, you only have Sale/Abreu/Ramirez and you can also include Petricka and Viciedo, although most would argue Viciedo has little to or no value at the current time. Of course, those first three spent little or no time in the minors, and Rodon's following the same path. At any rate, we haven't had the minor leaguers to trade which would amount to anything significant...even at the current moment, you're talking Sanchez/Semien/Micah, maybe Beck or Erik Johnson or Davidson, you'd be hard-pressed to put them all together and get even a starting player in return, certainly not a Top 1-75 player. Maybe if you added Bassitt/Webb you'd spark some interest. In the end, Mitchell, Walker and Thompson all appear to be busts, and that's hurt the system quite a bit. Johnson and Davidson aren't far behind. We can talk all we want about trading Quintana or Ramirez, but we can't do that without seriously damaging our chances to compete in 2015 and 2016 IMO. Not having the minor league depth of quality talent has hurt for three seasons in a row. Even today, trading Anderson/Hawkins/Danish/Montas makes a lot less sense than holding onto them and seeing what we have in two years. What are you defining as "home-grown" talent? That's why I've been putting it in quotes the entire time. You keep mentioning names like Molina, Stewart, Santos, Jackson, Webb, Abreu, Ramirez, Viciedo, Davidson, Quintana, Montas...those are players the White Sox all brought in via trade or signing. Yes, the White Sox need to do a better job at finding minor league talent (whether through the draft, int'l free agency, trade, waivers, minor league free agency, or whatever else), but the bottomline is that they need to bring in talent, period. They appear to be improving that, but they also splurged on older players 3-5 years ago which sets back any sort of building process towards the future. Beyond that, even teams that can spend a ton of money have gone through periods of struggling. The Yankees have missed the playoffs two years in a row and the Phillies look like probably the worst situation out there. Those periods are following World Series titles for both franchises. It makes sense because this entire process is cyclical and you just hope that you can put together enough talent to produce good teams consistently for a period of time. The Sox minor league system is in better shape after this season than it was after last season, and it was in better shape after last season than it was the previous season. Things are improving.

The Sox said they will bring in veterans in the right situation. James Shields is 33 and going to command 4 years and likely some sort of committment (via option or vested option) to a 5th year. The last time the Sox gave that kind of contract out for a free agent pitcher was John Danks, and he was a much, much better candidate for a 5 year contract at that time and it has bitten them squarely on the ass. That is not the right situation. I'd give the Sox a 0.1% chance of signing James Shields so as to protect myself from flat out saying "They are not going to sign James Shields."

QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Oct 9, 2014 -> 09:47 AM) I think the Rams screwed up first by locking themselves into that terrible dome. There should be a sister stadium right near the new Busch stadium. St Louis fans would be there if it was a competitive team and worth going. Unfortunately they combined to have terrible teams and a terrible stadium all at once, and now they look to get out. If any team needs to leave their current place, it is Jacksonville first. There is no reason to have a team there. At all. Doesn't Jacksonville have a really nasty lease agreement at the stadium though?

And just so I can get to it before anybody goes into tearing these apart, realize that these are projections and that they give us some baseline as to what we should expect. They are not suggesting that these are the end all, be all. There will be more projection systems that come out that also use different models and come up with less or more optimistic projections. Curious to see if/when people project Rodon's MLB numbers.

Great piece. I also want to point out that Recchia did more than hold his own at AA too - 19 GS, 107.1 IP, 96 H, 10 HR, 35 BB, 87 K. He allows quite a few fly balls, but he's definitely got a shot and frankly anyone who keeps producing will get a shot eventually.

QUOTE (oldsox @ Oct 8, 2014 -> 06:25 PM) Because of his injury, or on general principles? Fiscally. You are getting 2 years out of Stanton at a minimum while you have Quintana under control for the next 6 seasons. Stanton is a superior baseball player, but over that same time frame, he'll also be somewhere around 3x more expensive.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Oct 8, 2014 -> 08:27 PM) The Cardinals would argue those homegrown players all come into the system knowing if they perform well, they'll be promoted (and promoted together, usually)...that the Cardinals Way is inculcated from the very beginning...that all the prospects buy into the system, and the expectations of joining a "winning" organization where nothing short of the World Series is now the expectation, etc. They can watch examples like Wacha and Marco Gonzalez quickly progress through the system and know they can follow a similar path...or even examples where they're trading older veterans like Freese/Craig to create additional playing time for Wong, Grichuk, Adams, Tavares, etc. This cohesiveness is something (besides the lack of offensive players) the White Sox have never developed, and I think a lot of it's simply due to the KW "riverboat gambling" style of throwing a lot of talented acquisitions together and HOPING that everything clicks on a yearly basis. Then you look at almost every single player from our system having issues with strikeouts, execution offensively and defensively, baserunning...sloppy fielding mistakes, etc. That doesn't happen as often with the Cardinals (Top 3 with defensive runs saved as a team) or Giants, when you compare them defensively to the White Sox, it's a futile exercise to find any players other than Eaton/Ramirez that could hold their own on those two teams as a defender. This post is a total stream of consciousness and I have no idea what the point is. Two things: there's more than one way to skin a cat. As has been pointed out, the Orioles have very few "home-grown" players but it didn't stop them from winning 96 games and cruising through the ALDS. Also, if you believe that Kenny Williams wheeling and dealing hurt the Sox develop minor leaguers, please show me the minor leaguers the White Sox traded away that would be a part of the team right now. There are very few impact prospects.

QUOTE (elrockinMT @ Oct 8, 2014 -> 04:51 PM) I would rather sign Gordon Beckham this off season once LAA pass on his contract This would be the worst legal thing the White Sox could do.

QUOTE (TheTruth05 @ Oct 8, 2014 -> 04:36 PM) AJ will retire a champion after this season AJ will retire a champion thanks to 2005. I hope he does not retire a champion because of the Cardinals winning. Frankly, I want Baltimore to win it all.

QUOTE (knightni @ Oct 8, 2014 -> 02:27 PM) Possible LF option for the Sox? I wonder if he'd be worth a 2 year 8 mil a year offer. No way. I thought Rios got a bad rap while he was with the Sox, but I don't think the Sox will want to bring him back.

Of course, I'm not sure why "home-grown" talent ultimately matters. The Orioles don't have a hell of a lot of it and they're doing just fine.

QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Oct 8, 2014 -> 12:46 PM) Ok balta, you are right. He is good. Sign him to the Dunn deal that Wite proposed. Disregard anything that happened last season. Which one? I've proposed a lot of deals to get Dunn back on the south side.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Oct 8, 2014 -> 11:14 AM) SI Wire ‏@SI_Wire 4h4 hours ago Dodgers pitcher Josh Beckett calls it a career after 14 seasons. http://si.com/mlb/2014/10/08/los-angeles-d...beckett-retires … Thanks for 2003!

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Oct 8, 2014 -> 10:29 AM) White Sox Talk ‏@CSNWhiteSox 29m29 minutes ago Hahn: Ventura doing an 'excellent' job given circumstances - http://ift.tt/1vV1nxZ #WhiteSoxTalk Anybody calling for Ventura to be fired is barking up the wrong tree. Next year is going to matter a hell of a lot more.

My favorite part of this entire article (and I haven't read through it all): Because the answer is always Lyle Mouton.

QUOTE (Jenksismyb**** @ Oct 7, 2014 -> 04:56 PM) Does anyone else have a problem with the text not wrapping properly in the post box? Every sentence goes on and on to the right like it's written in notepad. It doesn't wrap down to fit the size of the box. Fast reply box is fine, but the normal reply box is not working right (on IE). Any ideas? don't use IE? Although I am using it and it works fine (I have to). What version?

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Oct 7, 2014 -> 04:30 PM) Clint Longenecker ‏@Clint_BA 2h2 hours ago The most college-heavy drafts (as % of signed players in class) were NYY (96.2%), CWS (93.9%), SD (93.3%) and DET (90.3%) PHI (89.3%) Not a good thing or a bad thing. It's just a thing. It's also hard to draw any sort of conclusion over it too other than them wanting to get warm bodies in the system to see how they perform and signing college guys who they are sure will sign as opposed to reaching for guys who may not based solely on the efforts of getting one Carlos Rodon signed and under contract.

QUOTE (Joshua Strong @ Oct 7, 2014 -> 03:22 PM) If I am the Sox and I had to pick between a FA with a CO attached to him or keeping a second round pick, I am keeping the draft pick. Well of course that's what you prefer, but sometimes that's not the choice. In theory, it's a superior player tied to draft pick compensation versus an inferior player with no strings attached and sometimes they are similarily priced with regards to AAV. If they are going to sign guys who have received qualifying offers, this is the time to do it, but I would advocate them signing multiple guys who receive those offers.

All kinds of good discussion here. QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Oct 7, 2014 -> 02:59 PM) I'm generally not going to be as angry at the concept of signing a FA who has a qualifying offer this year as I was last year...but I'm generally unimpressed by the guys available, including M. Cabrera. Decent season last year but when you count both the suspension and what he did in 2013, paying a whole lot of money for him does not seem like a very smart risk to me. I'm not fond of the QO free agents either, but if you combine 2 or 3 of them, I am more apt to making those signings. QUOTE (raBBit @ Oct 7, 2014 -> 03:05 PM) The new CBA really makes things interesting in cases just like that. While I doubt that Sox would ever take on this type of money. I would imagine their first rounder would be a guy way under contract and you'd probably see a pretty good talent drafted and signed over slot in one of the 4th, 5th or 6th rounds. No idea what actual implications would be for whom the Sox would take, but obviously they'd be an interesting team to look out for. You could also see them try and acquire a competitive balance pick too. QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Oct 7, 2014 -> 03:08 PM) The other thing to note, if it matters, is that by virtue of where we finished, with only a couple teams between us and a non-protected pick, the draft pick cost to signing a FA with a qualifying offer will likely not be lower any time soon. This is also a valid point, and given how close the Sox feel they are, it wouldn't surprise me in the least to see them go out of their way to sign those types because those players DO come at a discount financially.

QUOTE (raBBit @ Oct 7, 2014 -> 02:59 PM) If the FO was to probe into a trade for Belt it would have to be us moving prospects. I think Tank could be involved but it'd be more likely to be one of our 2B prospects and one of the SP pitchers who are succeeding. I see a trade for Belt being very similar to the trade for Swisher before '08. Obviously that doesn't help my argument but Belt is a guy who can be a premier left-handed hitter in today's climate. The more I look into him, the less I am willing to believe an outstanding GM like Sabean would be willing to part with him but if Sabean is inclined to do so, he could probably do better with a team other than our Sox. I just wanted to bold this because it's easily the first time I've ever seen it written.

As I've mentioned previously, signing one QO free agent decreases the opportunity cost required to sign the next one. Say Melky Cabrera, Victor Martinez, and David Robertson all receive QOs. Signing just one of them requires you give up a 2nd round pick, which is a lot to give up. But if you sign all 3, you can logically say the Sox are only giving up a 3rd round pick for Cabrera/Martinez and a 4th round pick for Robertson. Suddenly, the cost/benefit is technically worth doing so, and the Sox potentially have a team that can win the division next year.

QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Oct 7, 2014 -> 02:16 PM) Jay has warts, i get it. But some people will never get over the fact that he isnt Aaron Rodgers. Newsflash, there is only one. There is worse options out there, and even though the bears settled for the cute fat chick for 3 years, its much better than settling for fat chick one night stands for 20 years And I apologize for continuing that analogy. Aaron Rodgers might be the most valuable player in the league both in the here and now and moving forward.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Oct 7, 2014 -> 12:51 PM) That is not correct fully. Sox draft allotment was 9,509,700. The 5% cap was at $9,985,184.99 One penny more, and they lost a draft pick. The Sox spent 9,984,600. They were $584.99 under losing a draft pick. Another $40k costs them a pick. My bad

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Oct 7, 2014 -> 02:25 PM) Based on what? They didn't even attend his work out according to the press reports of who was there. Based on he's Cuban and knows Jose Abreu, OBVIOUSLY DUH

QUOTE (StRoostifer @ Oct 7, 2014 -> 12:59 PM) Agreed with all of this. I think there's two rationals behind trading Q. 1- he doesn't have the sexy "stuff" that pitchers of his caliper usually have. 2- I think some get too caught in rebuilding the farm. Yes, in the right trade, Q could bring in a nice haul that COULD be key pieces in the future but that does nothing to help the cause now. The Sox have Sale, Q and Rodon to build a starting rotation around. Why would anyone want to split that up is beyond me. Especially since the Sox have so much room in the payroll to play with, we don't need to do the KW " addition by subtraction" bit. I'm not against trading anyone to be honest but guys like Q and especially Sale have so much value that the haul would be unprecedented and probably unlikely. I agree with this and just want to add that, despite not having a ton of guys who you look to and think of them as a star (or for my OOTP friends, 5-star prospects), there is a lot more depth and guys you can reasonably and safely project to the majors at some point in time. Beyond anything, and this is a point I try and stress as often as I can, minor league rankings mean nothing. The Sox is on the upswing and will continue to do so. That is where the patience is an absolute necessity as a fan base.