witesoxfan

That killed this team. 25 of the 26 members of that clubhouse knew it was a cheap shot. The one that didn't is the one that calls the shots. A good manager knows what to do, to be very simple about it. Ozzie didn't. Because of that, he failed, and the team died.

He's a project. Quite frankly, this team is full of goddamn projects, and more then 1 project is too many, hell, one could argue that having 1 project is one too many. If he can start to use his fastball more consistently, using that to set up his split finger, then he could become a dominant starter. Until then, he is no better then Judy.

It took like 59 posts to finally get to it. Thank God someone did. SS2k4

(For the record...I made a boo-boo...I meant to say 2002, but instead wrote 2001...the 2001 Indians won the division and lost in 5 games to the Mariners in the ALDS) Just take a look at the Indians 2002 team...it was a pitiful damn team, they were god awful, and they had s*** for talent. However, what you did see happen was that they had some of the talent from their lower minor league system take the next step of development, and they came up, because the team had no shot at anything at all. That situation is very similar to the White Sox situation...many feel that Brian Anderson will be ready by 2006...Ryan Sweeney may be ready by 2006 or 2007...Fields will be ready probably by 2007, maybe 2008...this kind of stuff takes time. I don't really understand your point, at all...these Sox could very well end up much like the 2002 Cleveland Indians within a year or two. There's nothing you can say to change my view on this. And about the Tribe...uh, yeah. I thought everyone knew they were going to be a threat. They were a second place team for 2 weeks this year, and were very damn close to taking 1st place away from Minnesota. If their bullpen in the early part of the season had actually come through and pitched well, they could have been in 1st place by June 1 and could have run away with the division. It will be a 3-team race next year, with Detroit right on our heels the whole way. For the first time in a very long time, next year, a good team will finish in 3rd place in the AL Central. BTW...if you want a link to the 2002 Indians roster...here you go Link-me

Could be. That's kind of how I look at it too, actually.

That Bonds thing is a little too far. We could use 50% of our payroll on Bonds, and still win the division. Anybody else, literally, anybody else, I would agree with you...but Bonds is value to a team is beyond numbers. Without Bonds, the Giants are a last place team...period.

So you are telling me that we are one free agent away from having a better rotation then Mulder-Hudson-Zito-Harden-Redman? Hell, Rich Harden would probably be our damn ace...and he may not start in the playoffs for Oakland.

Ozzie can't just wave some wand and teach this guys to play fundamental baseball...and he really can't teach them it, because even if he preaches it, some will still not...this team is a power hitting team and is not built to play real good fundamental baseball. You will see more Ozzie type players next year, and this team will slowly be transformed into the team Ozzie wants it to be...or we will have a different manager.

And I would guess that that will continue for the first month or two of 2005, and then he will settle in, and start to pitch a little better down the stretch.

We are at the point of no return when it comes to tearing this team down. We have to try to win this thing one more year, and come 2006, it will be torn down(or perhaps even before then, if the team is really bad in the beginning of 2005 and they are in selling mode come the ASB). KW and JR have no intentions of tearing the team down at this point, and with good reason. There will definately be a shakeup...but nothing torn down.

That is some deep thinking right there. We can always use deep-thinkers on the board. So, welcome aboard...and I agree fully with you on this.

I don't think the intention was to ever imitate the Marlins lineup. I always thought it was to imitate the Twins lineup, playing small ball, playing good fundamental baseball, hitting the homer when we need to, stealing the base when we need to, having a solid rotation(and with Santana, I suppose you can say a very good rotation), having good depth throughout the lineup, having a good bullpen, having a good bench, having a good coaching staff, having a good minor league system, need I go on? We'd be better off starting with the major league team doing that and working our way down. We do that, and we become very close to what the Twins are

I am. I'd rather have Uribe start, or for us to sign Vizquel. I'm just not a real big fan of Guzman...he's very streaky. Now, if we're talking about Twins coming over here...I'd rather see Koskie and Radke come over here, and those two might be shown the door.

20-19, thank you very much I will agree with one thing...had Frank and Maggs not gotten injured, we would not be out of the race. We would still lose the division, but we would be eliminated probably next week and not this week.

Ha. Too bad Minnesota will play Boston in the first round. If the Twins get out of the ALDS...they will win it all.

I am positive that the Indians got Travis Hafner in a trade, they got Ben Broussard in a trade, they traded Bartolo Colon for Brandon Phillips, Cliff Lee, and Grady Sizemore...Phillips may end up becoming their starting SS next year, Lee is a big part of their rotation, Sizemore is a future stud, they signed Ron Belliard cheaply, they had Omar Vizquel for a million years. They did have a good system...but they developed that over a few years. If the Sox stopped trading prospects right now and just rebuilt, they would probably be where the Indians are right now in a couple years. The 2005 White Sox could be very similar to the 2001 Indians, and the 06 Sox could be 02 Indians, and the 07 Sox could be the 03 Indians.

They can't upgrade by trading Thomas. That's why he won't be dealt. That, and the fact that he really has very little value.

I hope the Twins do clinch it here...I want to see this team get b****slapped, and then I want to see what they do to respond next year. If they do nothing...then this team needs to be torn down. If they do respond, and they respond well, it is an entirely different story. Honest to God, I feel that 2005 is the last year the Sox have to potentially play competitive baseball until around 2008...if they do not win next year, the team will have to be torn apart, and we will be the 2001 Cleveland Indians.

I can't rub it in...Bills have lost just as poorly too. Lost against Jacksonville because they couldn't bat down a pass that was just floated in there, along with not being able to stop a 4th and 16, and because instead of kicking the field goal on the 1 yard line, they went for it, and missed...that would have tied the game up, and probably sent it to overtime. Oh well...two close games that could have and should have been won, but weren't. Atleast I know now that this team isn't a playoff team...yet.

Anaheim's is the one that is very easily much better then ours would be...and I'm sure if you broke these things down statistically, there are others better then us too(New York, perhaps, and even an outside chance that Boston could too...and one could argue that the depth of Minnesota's outfield makes them better too) But ours would be unbelieveable, regardless of what others think.

It's an interesting thought, but will not happen. This team seems to just roll over and die when Frank is not out there. He is the life of the team. The bloodline if you will. Trading Lee or Konerko makes much more sense due to their value and that they are not as good as Thomas is.

Division? I can't think of many outfields PERIOD that would be better then that(there are some...but not many) We do need pitching however...probably a good reliever if possible, plus a starter...however, what people are not considering is that those can be brought in via trade.

Let it be known that offense is just as important, if not more important, then a good starting rotation in the regular season. You look at the Cubs and Marlins of this year, and while they have had some very, very solid starting rotations, their offenses have either been inconsistent, or not good at all, and that has kept them out of the postseason. The Dodgers had the best pitching staff in the majors last year, yet still did not make the postseason, due to their weak offense. Adding Beltran would be a good move, assuming that it would not limit the team's spending on pitching. If we could still get a decent starter, adding Beltran could end up being the type of move that puts us over the top. Now, I am not at all suggesting we just sign Beltran for whatever price he wants. I'm suggesting that if we could get him at a reasonable price, it would probably end up being worth it.

I know for a fact that he has not made the transition well defensively, and that this is either the last year of Tino's contract(though it may end next year too...I am unsure of that), so Huff may move back to 1B. The one thing I was wondering was if BJ Upton would move to 3B, because I know they had considered that...that would also block a trade of Crede to Tampa Bay. BlackBetsy...the reason I brought that idea up was because the creater of the thread mentioned Konerko for Pierre as a possibility...I figured that, if Florida wants to get rid of salary, one would think they'd get rid of the one that makes the most. Obviously, we'd have to throw some cash into the deal, but I was just basically mentioning a brief idea. Perhaps it could be Konerko, Harris, and cash for Castillo.

I'm not sure that he will get $8 mill, unless he signs with a team who has a very learge payroll. You have to consider that when he signed that, market value for players was huge(much bigger then it is now), and that, if he signed it when I think he did, he was coming off of a 20 win season. I think that, unless he signs with the Yanks or BoSox, he'll get around $6-7 mill. Another thing to note about the Twins...just because they lose quite a few good players does not mean that they will be worse. Last year, they traded away Milton, Pierzynski, Mohr, and lost Guardado and Hawkins to FA. This year, they trade Mientkiewicz away at the trade deadline. What happens? Yeah, they improved.