witesoxfan

QUOTE (Marty34 @ Oct 16, 2013 -> 03:16 PM) In reality then, isn't he dangerously close to being just another pen arm considering his velocity arrow is pointing down. Let's take into consideration that closers are typically the best arms in the bullpen. Then let's consider that him being a top 10 closer would logically make him a top 10 reliever in the game. If he fell off to an average closer, that would still make him a good reliever. You can believe what you want to believe, but I truly do believe he is one of the best 15-20 relievers in the game. He's pretty damn solid. A guy who could fall off and become a AAAA arm at any point is Lindstrom.

QUOTE (Tex @ Oct 16, 2013 -> 02:58 PM) Perhaps it is the one stat that incorporates or covers that catch all we call "intangibles"? Where else would you find a stat that shows his teamates play just a little bit harder when he is on the mound? Or worse, the guy that his teammates seem to take the day off with? I could be, and mostly am, convinced that W-L is the least valuable of the stats we find on the back of a baseball card. I haven't been convinced yet that we should throw it out. Do you really think guys didn't play harder when Chris Sale was on the mound? Because frankly, I think that's frankly crazy talk.

It's just generally not a good thing to be compared to Buehrle. Buehrle actually has 4 slightly above average pitches with no velocity that all come out of the same arm slot at the same speed. For any pitcher to even closely resemble that is just a long shot at best. As Sox fans, you just hope he can pick up some velocity out of the bullpen and he can be an effective lefty reliever. That's the most I'm hoping for.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Oct 16, 2013 -> 02:22 PM) I'd say he's above average. He pitched more innings than anyone in the league with more than 30 saves, he saved nearly 2/3 of his teams wins, and compared to other closers his K/9, K/BB, and WHIP are currently about average. And of course, that's as a 24 year old in his 2nd season. Yeah, I agree. I think he certainly can be an elite closer. It'd be nice to see his average velocity up there, but his stuff is still good enough to get a lot of guys out.

QUOTE (knightni @ Oct 16, 2013 -> 02:06 PM) Bierman seems like a Mark Buehrle type. So did Josh Stewart and Heath Phillips

#1, when Alex Rodriguez was 20 years old, he hit .358/.414/.631/1.045 with 36 HR and 54 2B. #2, Bonds and Thomas both attended college, so their ability to play at Puig's age was reduced drastically by that. Still, in Thomas's first 941 PAs, he put up .321/.453/.547/1.000 with 39 HR, 42 2B, 5 3B, 182 BB, and 166 K. Bonds did struggle to an extent early in his career, so you're right there. Of course, Ken Griffey Jr put up .284/.350/.454/.805 at the ages of 19 and 20 and he was playing gold glove defense too. #3, what does what those guys did or did not do have anything to do with Puig? Seriously, Yoenis Cespedes looked great last year too and struggled this year. Maybe we should wait more than 432 PAs before we start comparing Puig to 3 of the greatest hitters of all time (regardless of any foreign substances entering their body).

You obviously can't do this, but taking Reed's line against Cleveland out vastly improves it

QUOTE (Joshua Strong @ Oct 16, 2013 -> 01:43 PM) I thought that the purpose of gaining that AZL team was to have a place where the more raw prospects could develop and I remember Rick Hahn saying that the more affiliates an organization has the better the farm system because you can develop more prospects in your system. How does selling Bristol help us? And where those kids going to play? Bristol has been an ad hoc raw prospect team. Moving them to an AZL league will probably improve their results and give the team a better feel for who is doing what.

QUOTE (Marty34 @ Oct 16, 2013 -> 01:38 PM) No, I don't like Nate Jones. I'm aware, even though it makes no logical sense

QUOTE (Marty34 @ Oct 16, 2013 -> 01:37 PM) Personal preference, B. Either way I think we both can agree 83% save percentage needs to be bettered by whoever the closer is. Yes. It would also be nice if he could allow a run every now and then rather than having to be perfect. Oh, and you may as well remove one of those blown saves from his line and give it to Gordon Beckham.

QUOTE (Marty34 @ Oct 16, 2013 -> 01:31 PM) You like Reed as closer more than I do. I want a guy who after Coop takes their velocity away still throws mid-to-high 90's closing. So basically you want a guy that averages 100 MPH with a straight fastball. Or Nate Jones.

QUOTE (Marty34 @ Oct 16, 2013 -> 12:18 PM) We've seen this pen in in action and it wasnt all that impressive. Reed is close to being just another pen arm, Jones is just another pen arm, and Crain is coming off of a shoulder injury. Webb has the stuff to be closer, we'll see. The bullpen, minus Crain for much of the year, minus Webb, plus Troncoso, plus Axelrod, plus whatever other poor pithcers they used (Omogrosso, Heath, whoever) put up an ERA of 4.00 and a WHIP of 1.40, and a K/9 of 8.1. You add Webb to that group and if you bring Crain back, you are probably talking about a 3.00-3.50 ERA between those top 5 righties with a WHIP around 1.10-1.20 and K/9 north of 9. Both Troncoso and Axelrod were brutal. I mean, basically the same bullpen was used in 2012. That team nearly won a division. How can you say "they won't win" when they very nearly did win?

QUOTE (pettie4sox @ Oct 16, 2013 -> 11:58 AM) Yahoo reported a deal has been made. WAY TO GO OBAMA

It's definitely not going to just be an exchange, as this is the Pirates first American rookie league team that I can tell (though they do have a short season A ball team)

QUOTE (pettie4sox @ Oct 16, 2013 -> 12:01 PM) Why wouldn't the Red Sox re-sign him? Who do they realistically have going forward for C duties? Would they go after McCann? There's been talk of that. Blake Swihart is a possibility a few years down the line too.

QUOTE (Marty34 @ Oct 16, 2013 -> 11:45 AM) That's a pen you aren't going to win anything with and it has little upside. I'm sorry, this is still bugging me. This pen has little upside? I genuinely don't know if you understand what upside is if that's how you feel. -Reed averaged a strike per inning, showed fairly good control, and was an all around good reliever this year. He has a tendency to give up big home runs and has let runners score the past couple years, but both of those will almost certainly continue to improve with experience. He has 2 very good pitches - the fastball and changeup - but, while his slider moves a lot, it doesn't have a lot of tilt to it and it tends to hang. It's almost more of a set up pitch though as he'll get guys chasing the change down or fastball up. -Jones struck out more hitters, walked fewer hitters, and threw more ground balls this year than last year, but somehow he allowed more home runs and couldn't strand runners. Jones had an incredible year developmentally and his ERA was as high as it was due almost 100% to dumb luck. Guys that average 97.5 MPH on the gun and have sliders with good tilt make for very good relievers. -Lindstrom is a perfectly ordinary middle reliever, a guy who can come in during the 6th or 7th and get a few outs. For how hard he throws, he doesn't strike a lot of guys out, but he's always thrown a lot of ground balls. -Daniel Webb averages 96 with his fastball and his slider was already proving to be a quality pitch in the little time he was up. He carved the minors up and, given a full season's worth of experience, he should easily turn into a very good reliever. -We've seen what Crain is capable of. -Petricka, as the 8th reliever, averaged 93.5 with his fastball, showed a good slider, and he too pitched well in the minors. As I said, I think he could use a bit of minor league refinement, but he's not far off. The lefties need work, as I'm not fond of Veal as the #1 lefty, but there are a few lefty relievers available on the market plus there are a few others who could be good pitchers for the Sox this year, like a Santos Rodriguez. At this point, if you say that pen has no upside, you're 100% trolling.

QUOTE (Marty34 @ Oct 16, 2013 -> 11:45 AM) That's a pen you aren't going to win anything with and it has little upside. This statement absolutely blows my mind with how inaccurate it is and how far off point it is beyond that

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Oct 16, 2013 -> 11:25 AM) LOL. His overall hitting stats for both (combined) playoff series or this one even are better than 80-90% of Cardinals' players, though. But he's also had more inside the park home runs taken away from him and more back breaking double plays hit into as well, so

Being atrocious against lefties is not a big deal because I believe that, save for freaks of nature like AJ Pierzynski, expecting anything more than 120 games out of a catcher is entirely unreasonable and even unhealthy, and logic says that one of Flowers and Phegley should be able to man the backup position and hit lefties at a good clip. I don't hate the idea.

Anyone check out the new Pearl Jam? Just got it last night so I haven't had much time to listen to it, but the early releases sounded good, and it's getting good early reviews too

If the Sox run a bullpen of Reed, Crain, Jones, Lindstrom, Webb, Veal, and Leesman, with Petricka in AAA as the first righty called up, we'd be happy (with the lefties here just as well being random names because they could bring in any number of other lefties too).

Crain wouldn't be a bad option. I think Petricka needs more work in AAA. Webb can come up because he has stupid stuff and was filthy in the minors this year, but Petricka had a WHIP of 1.37 at AA, 1.28 for the year in the minors, and it was about 1.55 in the majors.

I can't imagine Leyland is in good overall health. I'm sure he's still smoking a pack a day and has been for years and years.

QUOTE (CaliSoxFanViaSWside @ Oct 16, 2013 -> 01:49 AM) AA He was hitting well in AAA too, but you're right, at the time of Beckham's apparent initial injury, he was still in AA.

QUOTE (staxx @ Oct 15, 2013 -> 11:00 PM) that body of his is gonna break down real bad real fast He's 24. Prince turns 30 next year and will be entering his 9th full season. He'll be fine. There's no way the Sox will be able to acquire him though, not with Beltran a free agent and Allen Craig or Oscar Taveras taking his spot in RF though.