witesoxfan

Lest we forget, he won last year too. Play of the year.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Feb 20, 2011 -> 02:26 PM) Gonzalez That would be good. I think he's going to have a nice bounce back season and that he'll be the backup in 2012 with an eye to starting in 2013.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Feb 20, 2011 -> 03:41 PM) Its too bad. Crede appeared to have figured it out in 2006. Then in September he gets hurt, and really never was the same. Coming into Sept. 2006 he had 28 homers 86 rbi hitting .300 and GG like at 3B. He's supposed to be a real good guy as well. I always kind of assumed Crede was a good guy. I remember when the Sox were thinking about extending him and he wouldn't fire Boras like a few other Sox players did, people were giving him s*** about it. It makes sense though - not because of the debilitating back injury, which we couldn't know was coming - but because the guy wanted to be financially secure for the rest of his life, and he had the best agent in baseball to get him what he needed. I actually commend that. Even though it ends prematurely, he did have a hell of a career. World Series hero, idolized in Chicago, a Silver Slugger, an All-Star appearance, and several game-winning hits. And it's better to go out like this then to try to make a comeback and hurt his back even more. I imagine at this point the pain is tolerable...if he tried to gut it out a few more years, it might become excruciating. And I'm sure he has a wife and kids too, so this gives him the ability to watch them grow up.

QUOTE (joeynach @ Feb 20, 2011 -> 05:00 PM) We all know the sox always try and break up Danks and Buehrle from pitching back to back in the rotation. Given that they are both lefties and pitch similar styles it makes sense. I don't think they have similar styles at all. They both have a cutter and rely on location, but really, what truly effective starting pitcher DOESN'T rely on location in some regard? Maybe RA Dickey. Buehrle is very much a finesse pitcher, trying to fool hitters by changing just a little bit of speed and movement from pitch to pitch, trying to get hitters ahead, behind, or to miss the sweet spot of the bat. If he gets strikeouts, good, but he basically wants the hitter to get himself out. Danks goes right at hitters with a good fastball, uses the cutter to get hitters to make mistakes, and uses the changeup to get hitters out. It makes sense to break up the lefties not because they are similar in how they pitch but because it gets hitters looking to different sides of the mound in back to back games. It will be easier to hit a lefty if you have recently faced a lefty. If it hasn't been done, it would be interesting to see if there is any correlation between offensive success when facing lefties on back to back days. I would imagine that it'd be very difficult to control (due to varying levels of talent of left handed pitchers and managerial philosophies) and that the results would yield no significant outcome.

QUOTE (3E8 @ Jan 26, 2011 -> 07:06 PM) I'm going to Glendale for the first time too, so ditto all of the above. Emphasis on the sluts. I can't tell if it's Daniel Tosh or Gavin Floyd in your avatar, but it did make me realize how much Gavin Floyd and Daniel Tosh look alike.

There is so much good about Crede. I remember him as a prospect, remember him disappointing early but still had a few clutch hits, the end of 2005, and then 2006 too. Kinda had a feeling in 2007 that the back problems were going to stick around for good.

Ozzie's favorite number!

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Feb 19, 2011 -> 02:53 PM) Cliff Lee put up an ERA of near 4 when he got to Texas last year. He had great numbers in Seattle...pitching in Seattle, a great pitcher's park. John Danks actually put up a higher WAR than Cliff Lee last year. Using B-R's, yes - 4.9 to 4.3. Using FanGraphs, which is using defense independent statistics to determine WAR, Cliff Lee was worth 7.1 WAR compared to Danks 4.3. Cliff Lee went to Texas, didn't see his peripherals change drastically (his BB/9 did double...from 0.5 BB/9 to 1 BB/9), and he put up an ERA like a run and a half higher. You think that's his fault? I would say it had a lot more to do with his strand rate going down almost 10% from his career average (71.8% LOB in his career, 62.6% with Texas)

Chet, I'm pretty sure you're the only person in the entire world that thinks Buehrle is going to swiftly fall off a cliff. Personally, I think he's going to put up an ERA of about 4.25 over the next 5-7 years and throw 1000-1500 innings.

QUOTE (JoeCoolMan24 @ Feb 19, 2011 -> 03:20 AM) Yeah, if you are assuming Jake Peavy does not come back in 2011, or doesn't finish the season. My plan (as well as others) is to see Sale starting for Peavy until he comes back, and then be sent to AAA to start for the remainder of the year until the rosters expand, and then Sale gets added to the bullpen for September. That really has nothing to do w/ Humber or Harrell. But the White Sox entire plan was to have Sale be in a set role all year. They believe that dicking around with him and his regiment - going from starting pitcher to reliever, which is still happening in your scenario - is wrong. There is plenty of precedent for pitchers being converted from reliever to starting pitcher and doing so successfully. Derek Lowe, Adam Wainwright, CJ Wislon, and I'm sure countless others. The year to be worried about Sale falling apart is not 2012 - I'm quite sure that if he makes the transition from reliever to starter next year and actually be a good pitcher, then he will make it through the year just fine. The year to worry about with this type of situation is 2013. Lowe's ERA jumped from 2.58 to 4.47, Wainwright missed 12 starts in 2008, and I imagine you will see some regression from CJ Wilson this year as well. Lowe was bad again the following year but pitched extremely well in the postseason and has been a rock for the past 6 years, and Wainwright has twice finished in the top 3 of the Cy Young vote. My best guess would be that Sale would see that regression happen next year if he were to start this year - due to the increased work load from the previous season while also not having the experience against major league hitters - and this plan should allow him to atleast get major league experience against major league hitters.

Throws hard.

QUOTE (sircaffey @ Feb 18, 2011 -> 10:11 PM) No rule, but how many players can you name that have made their first PRO start in the majors? Mike Leake's the only one of late that comes to mind, and he absolutely blew up after 10 starts. It's a tough transition. Hopefully Sale can do it, but it's not done often for a reason. Well I know there is no rule, but you have to look at each of these on an individual basis. I can guarantee you that Stephen Strasburg would have been just fine with no minor league experience, and Mark Prior probably would have too. Those two, coincidentally in this instance, have either suffered an injury or have battled injuries their entire career. The White Sox called Sale up as quickly as they did because they were in a pennant race and he has the stuff and command to be able to get major league hitters out. That will be true again this year. It's also not done often because the pitcher is not ready to get major league hitters out. It has less to do with the idea and more to do with the ability of the pitcher. I could start for the Cleveland Indians on Opening Day, no minor league experience, and I would get shelled. It has nothing to do with my lack of minor league experience and everything to do with my inability to get hitters out. That's why the minor leagues exist. Chris Sale is an example of a pitcher who has stuff to get major league hitters out, so, again, you have to treat each of them on an individual basis. QUOTE (YASNY @ Feb 18, 2011 -> 10:40 PM) I can think of a guy that was a 1st round pick, whose career was almost a bust because his team kept throwing out there as a starter and he sucked. Then he was traded, put in the pen and has been pretty damn effective since. Matt Thornton. The point being that there is not a failsafe blueprint on how to handle young pitchers. You have to judge the individual based on what you see and do what you think is best. And the White Sox certainly will give Sale a chance to start. The only problem I see is that Sale could certainly struggle initially and the Sox might pull the plug too quickly - Williams and company have shown a tendency to do that. Hopefully they will have a long leash with him if he begins to struggle.

QUOTE (ptatc @ Feb 18, 2011 -> 08:51 AM) you can start throwing between 6-8 months and pitching around 9. However, as with most ligament repairs most athletes will say they don't "feel" normal until around 18 months regardless of everything else. As I said previously reparing or replacing passive tissue structures is alot different than active tissue. In Nathan's case they replced tissue. In Peavy's they just re-attached current tissue. There's a big difference in healing time. When you replace tissue it needs to "die " first since it was a tendon and was removed. During this phase they need to wear protective braces and they can't do too much activity. Once it dies it needs to get a new blood supply and regenerate. Once it begins to regenerate it comes back with more ligament properties than tendons. It amazing but no one really knows why this happens. There are throries but no true answers. This is why ligament replacement healing takes longer than just a re-attachment. The human body and modern medicine are both equally amazing.

What is your point? It's not like Chris Sale has never started a game in his life. Is there some special rule that he needs to start some games in the minors before he can start in the majors?

Drink every time Hawk says "Stretch!"

QUOTE (JoeCoolMan24 @ Feb 18, 2011 -> 01:15 PM) No one knows if they are right or wrong for many years and we can look back at Sale's career. But for the meantime, I think it's an awful plan. Because putting the 2011 team in the best position to win games is just terrible.

QUOTE (bucket-of-suck @ Feb 18, 2011 -> 02:54 AM) If his value is so obviously so incredibly negative why would the Sox ever run him out there?! Ever? I can't believe Mike Gellinger hasn't noticed this. Because there is no way to tangibly see that number, but the consensus is that it is a pretty accurate number. Besides, it's not like bad defense has ever stopped Ozzie from putting someone in RF; indeed, it's the only thing he ever has put in RF. The Sox needed Quentin's bat in the lineup, so they need to find a spot to get him on the field, and RF makes the most sense. Makes sense to me atleast.

QUOTE (JoeCoolMan24 @ Feb 18, 2011 -> 12:30 AM) Sure, better for 2011, and worse for 2012 and 2013 and so on. Maybe it's just me, but I'd rather be better or 2012 and beyond than just 2011. Meh, I mean, we went with a DH by committee last year, so I am not always shocked by bad player management. This is not bad player management. This is player management with which you disagree. There is a big difference. And personally, I'd rather the Sox do what they can to cash in on this year's team and worry about next year's team next year. You don't know that they will be worse, but considering Jackson, Buehrle, and Thornton are free agents, it's very likely that they will be worse and Chris Sale will have no effect on that whatsoever.

QUOTE (WCSox @ Feb 17, 2011 -> 10:04 PM) A lot can happen in 10 years. Look at where Griffey and Frank were 10 years ago. Griffey played a much more demanding defensive position, and Frank Thomas weighed 275 pounds. Albert's more likely to stay healthy than those two. They are valid examples of players getting injured as they get older though. Quite frankly, any examples you bring up will be valid, because over the course of a 10 year contract, a lot is bound to happen. In my mind, the best example to use is probably ARod. You move around a bit more at 3B, but not nearly as much as you would in CF, and he has a similar body. He had his worst offensive year since 1997 this past year, but a lot of the league was down offensively. It will be interesting to see how he bounces back. It could honestly be an aberration, or a sign of things to come. It could also influence the Cardinals decision, or it may not.

Peavy threw a bullpen today. Said it went well.

QUOTE (WCSox @ Feb 17, 2011 -> 04:27 PM) You won't want to pay Pujols the last $100M of that deal when he's posting a .790 OPS and bad defense at 1B. .790 is a bit low. Jim Thome was putting up .850-.900 and he's not nearly the hitter Pujols is. Given, he's been DHing the last 5 years, but Pujols is also a better athlete than Thome as well and has proven time and time again that he can play through pain.

QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Feb 17, 2011 -> 04:29 PM) That's going to be one expensive last place team. That organization is a mess. I've actually really like what Alderson has done so far though. Nothing too crazy, just make small signings and hope for the best. That's all they can really do right now.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Feb 17, 2011 -> 03:52 PM) Has baseball ever suspended anyone, as a league, for conduct unrelated to anything happening on the field of play? Has anyone (Lincecum) ever been suspended for a positive marijuana test? I seem to recall that recreational drugs carry a lighter punishment in major league baseball (something like non-public warning for the first positive, 10 game suspension plus required classes for the second, and then the suspensions get tougher after that). However, it is a much tougher policy in the minor leagues, and I'm pretty sure several, including one of the guys the Mariners got for Lee and I want to say Jeremy Jeffress have been suspended for recreational drugs. Someone from the Sox system was just suspended this past year too (Negron?). Anyways, to answer your question, I don't believe so.

Oh, and the only one Yahoo has of Garcia so far.

QUOTE (GoSox05 @ Feb 17, 2011 -> 03:52 PM) Very exciting. I always look forward to the first pictures from camp. Now we get the stories about players being the best shape of their lives. They lost weight. They put muscle on..... best shape of his life