witesoxfan

QUOTE (ptatc @ Dec 9, 2009 -> 05:57 PM) We know how Beane values defense. Oakland would let him play shortstop if he agreed to what they could pay him. Beane values defense very highly. No one is paying a premium price for good defensive players, so Beane is going to find said defensive players and plug them into his lineup, hoping they'll hit (and Rajai Davis was one of those guys that did hit this year).

QUOTE (b-Rye @ Dec 8, 2009 -> 09:47 PM) Getz would of been about 12 million dollars cheaper over three years. And wouldn't have been nearly as good

QUOTE (SoxAce @ Dec 8, 2009 -> 04:11 PM) You used the same source (mlbtraderumors/Edes which rotoworld followed up on twice.) The Rosenthal one I'll give you, though that was AFTER the sawks decided not to part with Masterson originally. Did you even look at the google articles I gave you? I know it feeds your ego, but step down once in a while bro. so I'm not supposed to believe Gordon Edes, who is from the Boston area and would have a few inside sources within the Red Sox organization? K

QUOTE (Jenks Heat @ Dec 8, 2009 -> 04:09 PM) In a macro sense the White Sox are adding old players. In a micro sense they are adding guys that have good MLB history and should be able to handle the type of pitchers that hurt the Sox, s*** righties. Who can hit s*** righties, good left handed hitters (Matsui, Teahan, Vizquel, and Kotsay). Thease are the guys that should bode well against the Twins, Indians and Royals rotations. Are these moves sexy....no but the AL Central is terrible and off of the top of my head there is not a good leftie in the divison.....Laffey maybe? The White Sox really do not need to make big expensive moves to win this division all they need to do is stay healthy and do their job. The rotation can win the world series if they get to the playoffs and that is how this team is being constructed. I hadn't even thought of it like that. It's crazy and it's true.

QUOTE (SoxAce @ Dec 8, 2009 -> 03:56 PM) Take a look wite. And shame on you for actually using mlbtraderumors as a source to try and "be right." Talks "stalled" later but I think that was more or less on either Pena getting injured round that time, or the sawks riding what they got. What are you talking about? The dude at MLB Trade Rumors is using Gordon Edes as his source. The only thing MLB Trade Rumors has done in the past is make up false rumors or go based off of some sketchy sources, neither of which were the case here. It's the same thing Rotoworld does on a constant basis. In fact, here's what Rotoworld had to say about it. Checkmate.

QUOTE (SoxAce @ Dec 8, 2009 -> 03:49 PM) I remember it like it was yesterday.. and just googled it. Now you do the same and get back to me. And I actually forgot Justin Masterson was almost in it/exchanged/being discussed as well. http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2007/07/pretty-good-cha.html

QUOTE (SoxAce @ Dec 8, 2009 -> 03:44 PM) It was Willy Mo and Manny Delcarmen actually. I remember it like it was yesterday. I remember the Sox wanting Delcarmen. I don't think the Red Sox were willing to give Delcarmen. He was having a fantastic season acting as a setup man and was going to be counted on for years (and he's essentially fulfilled that, though he was mediocre this past season). The Red Sox wouldn't jump at it because they didn't need Dye that badly (and considering they won the World Series, I'd say they were right).

QUOTE (kwolf68 @ Dec 8, 2009 -> 03:37 PM) True True, but Williams should have seen this all coming. We had numerous chances to turn our own aging vets into young talent, but waited until the shelf life was used up at which point Williams shops said players and gets bad offers. That of course is a dead horse thats been beaten to death here, but it's clear the Sox have no position players ready to fill in at OF, we really don't have many top prospects to turn around for a high ceiling players, so...this is what we're doing, adding players like Jones and Matsui...I guess it's better than Lillibridge out there. I seem to recall the best offer Williams getting for Dye at the deadline in 2007 was Wily Mo Pena and Craig Hansen. I think Williams made the right call in retaining and resigning Dye. He also made a move for a younger, more athletic, and thought to be good defensive outfielder in Carlos Quentin prior to the 2008 season, and he was phenomenal.

QUOTE (kwolf68 @ Dec 8, 2009 -> 03:33 PM) Well I was hoping the GM would figure that out. Because we can't find a Matt Holiday to put into our lineup we choose instead to get older, slower, worse defensively? Just not excited about players whose prime was 5 years ago. Matt Holliday turns 30 before the season starts. Alex Rios turns 29. As such, my argument to you would be that the Sox got younger, faster, and more athletic with that move right there. You never said anything about getting better.

QUOTE (bigruss22 @ Dec 8, 2009 -> 03:32 PM) Exactly, at Upton's possible lowest value he would still cost a ton in prospects. QUOTE (Kalapse @ Dec 8, 2009 -> 03:32 PM) Which brings the "good" portion of the statement into question. Precisely. It's not easy to go from "aging veteran" to "young athletic" overnight. And, for that matter, there are some young athletic teams that scare the hell out of me in a bad way. Young, athletic teams are generally not very good teams.

QUOTE (bigruss22 @ Dec 8, 2009 -> 03:29 PM) Who is young, good, can play defense well, and isnt impossible to obtain? Im listening... BJ Upton is the best one off the top of my head, and he'd cost quite a bit even after coming off of two rough seasons.

Funny that people are talking about Teahen struggling because he keeps moving all over the field, yet aren't worried about Quentin/Jones/Kotsay/Matsui/Rios when they may end up doing the exact same thing.

It'd be really interesting to see a study about players who switch positions throughout the year as opposed to them later playing just one position and seeing if it really does make a big difference. My guess would be that there is little difference and that there may be other factors that play into it as well.

QUOTE (Fingish @ Dec 8, 2009 -> 01:23 PM) First, I'm not going to suggest that I think this has a high probability (like I'd give it 5-10% chance) of getting done, but I think the observation that it might not take as much as one might think to get Halladay could be correct. If he is truly serious about testing FA after this season then his value is obviously reduced in a trade, and he has to start looking around for where he wants to go showcase himself. This is where Kenny does the sell-job. Projecting out to him what they can do with a rotation like our XBox fantasy. Since the Jays won't want to trade him to NY or Bos, Chicago makes more sense for Halladay want to showcase himself than Tampa Bay. Since Halladay has so much say over where he goes, it could create a situation where Toronto is virtually forced to take lesser value than they could get somewhere else. It isn't like we haven't seen this before. All that said, again, I doubt we end up with him, and if we do I'd hope it would be a scenario like that where we don't give full value, where ours is the 2nd or 3rd best offer on the table and the Jays are all but forced to take it. Giving up Danks and Danks and Flowers and on and on for him would be a mistake, IMO. But it sure is fun to think about when it is cold and gray outside. The Jays have already said they'll deal Halladay to the team that offers the most, no matter what hat Halladay would put on in the Spring. And beyond that, the White Sox would not acquire Halladay to have him pitch on the South Side, not when the offense needs help way more than anything else.

QUOTE (lostfan @ Dec 8, 2009 -> 11:07 AM) I can't post the full rant I usually do about BABIP but we can believe it at I'm not a believer in BABIP as a useful stat for hitters, and we don't need it to explain Carlos's aberrant stats last year. All I think it does is help explain that his batting average was lower than normal. I'm not using it to say he is a good or bad hitter (he was unlucky this year, lucky in 2008), but I think, based on all of his peripherals, that he should have hit better than .230 and he didn't. It's generally more useful with pitchers, because there is a relative standard set (even though it does still fluctuate a bit), but fluctuates with hitters because each hitter is different in his own way.

QUOTE (lostfan @ Dec 8, 2009 -> 10:46 AM) His BABIP was low because he wasn't hitting, which there were other reasons for. Had nothing to do with luck .223 is ridiculously low, considering his career BABIP is .258. I could understand it being lower last year due to his flyball percentage being at its highest total - a flyball 47.2% of the time - but a 35 point drop is huge. His line-drive percentage was right around normal, and he actually had more infield hits than he did in 2008, which is lucky in its own right. I think Quentin's a great candidate to bounce back and have an .875-.900 OPS season, and he could very easily put up more. Again, I think the only reason the Sox would consider a move like this is because they are convinced that he won't stay healthy.

QUOTE (The Baconator @ Dec 8, 2009 -> 10:31 AM) It's a stretch here, but JD did just say that he is willing to talk to teams about playing 1B, acknowledging that might the only place he could play. If it came down to actually moving Paulie, might Dye be had at a hometown discount? That ship has sailed. Dye should not be brought back.

QUOTE (WCSox @ Dec 7, 2009 -> 05:39 PM) So, do you think that Frank would've had a career .300 average and 500 career HRs in Walsh's era? How are you so convinced that Frank was miles better than Shoeless Joe Jackson? to be completely fair, we don't know what Frank would have done in Ed Walsh's time because he wouldn't have been allowed to play

QUOTE (chunk23 @ Dec 8, 2009 -> 10:04 AM) Honestly, the writing on the wall is clear. The Sox are handcuffed if they want to contend next year. Between player raises and filling two massive holes in the lineup, they just don't have the money without moving someone. Jenks is one of the few parts that could be replaced internally. And then you are left without a real good lefty reliever, unless Thornton starts being used in the 7th, 8th, or 9th and there is some type of committee.

QUOTE (3E8 @ Dec 7, 2009 -> 08:40 PM) Jaimee looks like she'd lick an ass or give a blumpkin

God I hope not. Carl Crawford is what he is - an .800-.825 OPS player who is going to get really expensive really fast. Carlos Quentin, in what was considered a bad year, still put up a .779 OPS, though it was mostly slugging favored, and he's still under team control for a while. His BABIP last year was .223, which is very, very low. Unless the Sox are absolutely convinced that he is constantly going to be an injury waiting to happen, I don't even consider this.

QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ Dec 8, 2009 -> 07:23 AM) Yeah but the length and money for Zito dwarfs what they gave Jones, and that is the real risk. Overpaying someone for a year isn't going to ruin a franchise. Overpaying them for 7 could do that. Oh I agree, I think Zito's contract is among the three worst, with Soriano and Wells being the others. I'm just trying to see it through their eyes.

Blast from the past: Scott Atchison signed a 1 year contract with the Red Sox

QUOTE (Thunderbolt @ Dec 7, 2009 -> 05:46 PM) Honestly, i'm also in the Danks isn't ready camp. I just have issues with an organizational outlook that's comfortable with having placeholders fill some major positions. I think Jones can be lightning in a bottle, i just hope like hell we explore every possible alternative before we reach that point. I actually have no problem with what the organization is doing. Williams has stated that Jones was brought in to be a bench player, but if no other alternatives come out, and Jones comes to camp and brings his A game, that could turn into an .850 OPS and .900+ against left handed pitching. I would have no problem with that for a season, and it gives the organization one more year to evaluate what they have coming up in the minors.

QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ Dec 7, 2009 -> 06:00 PM) How is 2 years of Andruw Jones worse than the Zito disaster? And how on earth is soriano not on this list? I imagine because, in the 1 year Jones actually played for the Dodgers, he put up an OPS+ of 35. Zito, in 3 years with the Giants, has put up an ERA+ of 97. I imagine Zito's FIP is rather high, but he's actually been a decent middle of the rotation starter for the Giants.