beck72

Danks has owned the Rays this year. Garza's been lit up by the sox in the past [hitting .382 as a team off him]. Get a win Sunday, get it to Floyd on Mon. and force the Rays into a high pressure 5th game.

He did look good. Yet he's gonna have to be lights out in a lot more games to be considered for a spot on the playoff roster. It would mean bumping someone else off. Though someone like Richard prob. wouldn't be needed.

This is a big loss. Quentin has carried the sox this year. But he alone wasn't going to get the sox to the playoffs by himself. It's the sox pitching that is or is not going to carry them to the playoffs. And just as importantly, the big boys need to step it up. AJ, Dye, Thome, Pk, Griffey and Swish can't be easy outs the rest of the way.

Richard may be a decent arm for the bullpen. He can throw strikes, which is half the battle coming in from the bullpen. Richard also has shown he can throw harder in spurts [think his first start when he overthrew to like 94 mph for the 1st inning or so rather than his typical 90 or so]. If he only needs 2 pitches rather than 3, and face batters only 1 time rather than twice or 3 times, he could be more effective. If this 'Richard in the bullpen experiment' fails, Poreda should be called up immediately.

I don't buy the idea that Shapiro wouldn't trade w/ Kenny-unless it was a personal issue. The indians want to improve their club for the future. The indians are already playing for next yr. Boston probably had a better offer. It prob. was business.

And wouldn't you know it, these teams are 3-8 in terms of total ERA in the AL. 3-TB 4-Bos. 5-LAA 6-Sox 7-Minn 8-NYY http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/stats/aggreg...ng&type=reg the sox need a strong pitching staff from here on out. That's why I don't understand why the sox want to further weaken their bullpen by adding Carrasco to the rotation. He's one guy who's had success with Linebrink down I can see why Washburn wouldn't be a good fit. Yet there has to be a better option than DJ. He may do OK. Yet it hurts the bullpen.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Aug 10, 2008 -> 08:20 PM) Well, a 6.17 ERA over the last 23 games from the starters definitely hasn't helped, that's for sure. In some sense, it's amazing we are still within one-half game, if you look at it from that perspective. We've basically been treading water, between 12-16 games over .500, for much of the last two months. If we can stay within 2-3 games before Minnesota goes on their 14 game road trip (starting on August 21st), we should be okay. I am a LITTLE more optimistic about Crede than Linebrink after I read somewhere (suntimes) that Joe felt much better and had exchanged e-mails or text messages with KW to that affect. That's why having Griffey around has helped the sox, even if his numbers haven't been there. The big hitters have gotten some time off, and are hopefully ready physically for the stretch run. That the sox haven't played well, have had their share of injuries, yet are still in 1st, is somewhat amazing.

QUOTE (Tony82087 @ Aug 10, 2008 -> 08:10 PM) Linebrink IMO has been the biggest lose to this team, and the effect has been rather large. Take last night for example. Granted, Thornton should have been in anyway, but in that situation, its Thornton, then Dotel, Then Line, then Jenks. Instead, everyone gets pushed up. Logan in for Thornton, Thornton in for Dotel, Dotel in for Linebrink. Players get exposed, and it cost us a win last night. That's why the best argument for getting a vet to replace Jose is to keep the bullpen in the strongest shape possible. If a rook is thrown in there [or Carrasco] the bullpen will be extended again. Guys have already gotten moved around during both Jenks and Liney's absences. The bullpen was best when they knew their roles. With the injuries, that's been thrown out the window.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Aug 10, 2008 -> 10:39 PM) I'd rather have Byrd. Me too.

I'm still going with my prediction that a SP will be acquired before Jose's next turn and both Carrasco and Broadway will be in the pen. Then either Wise or Getz would go back down.

the sox still aren't in that bad of a position injury wise. They're missing one SP. Crede and Linebrink should make it back in the next few weeks. They've been missed, but sox really haven't lost much ground with those 2 out. If the sox don't make the playoffs, will it be because Contreras is done for the year? If the other starters pitch like they have been--with slight improvement--and the bullpen rebounds, they'll be OK. The lineup is otherwise pretty healthy and should be ready to put up solid numbers for the next month and a half. Some people are now lamenting the Griffey trade. Yet it has allowed the sox to rest Thome, PK, Swisher and Dye a bit. Having those guys ready for the stretch run could be key if the pitching doesn't rebound.

QUOTE (Fingish @ Aug 10, 2008 -> 04:37 PM) My math was based on the previous poster saying that Byrd was a better alternative to get us to September, when we will be able to call up some degree of help for the bullpen, even if it's just picking up the mop-up situations in blowouts. It seemed that the reasoning was someone like Byrd will keep your bullpen from getting overtaxed before expanded rosters. That puts the person who replaces Jose at making around 4 starts before the rosters are expanded. So the question of how deep a starter can get us isn't negated in September, but it certianly isn't magnified, there will be plenty of pitchers avaible to take the unimportant relief innings, leaving our core relief staff able to be rested and ready in the more important games. The point was that going for a Byrd-like pitcher wasn't going to make a giant difference if your only concern was trying to save the bullpen a little bit, even over the two months, if you don't count September call-ups as having any value in saving our relief staff, you're then talking maybe 16 extra innings pitched over two months. If our staff can't handle that much extra load, they probably aren't going to be the guys to take us all the way to the World Series anyways. I think we're already set in the inning-eater category, taking a shot on bringing up someone who could be better than a #5 starter seems to me to have a better risk/reward return on it, as the risk of over-taxing the bullpen at this stage of the season, based on the performance of 1 starter doesn't seem to be all that great, while the reward of (what appears to be Broadway) coming up and throwing lights out for 2 months is a chance to win it all. Saving the bullpen wasn't the only reason why I think a vet like Byrd may be a better option than an untested minor leaguer like say Poreda. It's a combination of things. With Danks and Floyd never having thrown this many innings in the bigs-and may not be able to sustain their success- having a 5th SP who can eat innings becomes extra important. Both Ozzie and Kenny have been through the Diaz-Munoz-etc minor league starter carousel and probably won't go through that again. Richard was given a chance for 3 starts and that may be all the risk they're willing to take. Yet going into sept. with a bullpen on fumes from overwork would be a disasterous scenario. Esp. the big three of Dotel, Thornton and Jenks. So that should not be underestimated. Having an unreliable bullpen--putting rookies added to the roster into high pressure situations--because your vets have been worn out during the last month could make all the difference between making the playoffs or not.

Tomo Ohka has thrown well of late. Esp. in the bullpen. Try Ohka in set up/ long relief until Thursday. With Carrasco used up, the sox will need someone who can throw long relief. Carrasco could possibly take Jose's place then. http://web.minorleaguebaseball.com/milb/st...&pid=219594

Someone like Egbert, Broadway, Childers or Rodriguez should come up from the minors to help the bullpen and someone else will come up to take Jose's place in the rotation for Thursday. The sox could then option Getz or Wise back to the minors to make room for the extra pitcher.

I say go with the vet SP. Byrd has thrown well of late. Over on the Indians MLB board, they attribute Byrd going 4-0 in his last four starts, and good July and August, to improved mechanics--not him just getting old and bad. They also can't believe a contender hasn't picked him up yet. Also, people their are talking about re-signing him. Of the names mentioned, including the minor leaguers, why not Byrd. Byrd's problem is the long ball. But he's improved on that the last two months, and his ERA is down as a result. http://www.forums.mlb.com/n/pfx/forum.aspx...s&tid=43597

QUOTE (Wanne @ Aug 10, 2008 -> 07:30 AM) Surprised nobody commented on caulfield's post here....because it's pretty spot on. Just what the hell has Griffey brought to this team besides the headache of where to bat him or sit him?!? Kenny rolled the dice to catch lightning in a bottle and lost. Masset probably would have looked pretty good right now. Still my vote goes to 1a. Poreda. 1b. Broadway (he did show some promise late last year). The thing that sticks in the back of my mind is when other teams bring up some no-name shmuck...and he friggin shuts out the Sox in their first MLB start. So it does happen. Kind of like my position about Caleb Hanie...GIVE THE DUDE A SHOT! Masset was horrible after his nice start. How many games would the sox have lost if they had stuck with him? The sox couldn't send him down to AAA where he belongs. Masset and Logan were simply awful and had no business pitching for a team in a playoff hunt. As far as the rotation goes, Poreda may be capable, and have a good future, but throwing him in the mix during a pennant race...His makeup has to be off the charts to handle that kind of pressure, not to mention the ability to handle the possible failure. Paul Byrd has thrown well in July and August. He's a better bet to give the sox 6, 7 innings than a guy who started the year in A ball [Poreda].Byrd throws strikes and isn't signed for 2009. As long as the sox don't have to give up much for Byrd, why not. If the sox go with Poreda or another minor leaguer, they are almost assured of taxing the bullpen. And the sox need to tread water until the sox can expand their rosters in Sept. Getting a vet who can get major leaguers out is the most likely route for helping the sox pitching stay afloat until reinforcements come.

A few thoughts: 1] Getz will probably come up. He's been playing 3b lately. It will give the sox another option at 3b, and Uribe and Alexei some time off, give flexibility. 2] Horacio will take Logan's spot in the bullpen. The sox won't and can't stretch him out. 3] Poreda may fill in for Jose until a veteran SP is acquired. Unless Poreda throws lights out right away, the sox will need someone to give them 6, 7 innings each time out. I'd be surprised if the sox even have him throw once.

If Freddy was ready he'd be the best option. Better than getting a bad contract like Byrd or Washburn. Yet I don't think Freddy can give the sox 6, 7 innings now. I don't know about trying SP's from the minors. That sounds like a lesson in using up the bullpen. But I see a bad contract coming the sox way.

I have a nice feeling about Jose-7 innings with 2 runs allowed. Is it just me or does the Boston lineup look a whole lot less dangerous without Manny in it?

QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Aug 6, 2008 -> 07:45 PM) Or maybe just stick Clayton Richard in the pen. He can put up as s***ty numbers as Eyre and some of the other guys mentioned but at least he has upside and a nice looking arm (plus he has flashed the ability to get big leaguers out in his short stint, although he has also wet the bed). Still, there is something to be said about bringing a lefty out of the pen who can hit 94, throws strikes, and gets a lot of ground balls. The sox should move Richard to the bullpen in Charlotte and have him throw innings there instead of the rotation. Esp as that's the role he'd have if he came in Sept.

The key to making a deal isn't the talent involved. It wouldn't take a top prospect to make a wavier deal. It's just winning the claim on the player. A guy like Chad Bradford would've upgraded the sox bullpen at little cost in terms of talent. The biggest thing was his $3 + mill. contract for 2009. I don't know why he wasn't looked at, unless the sox still think they can get an upgrade better than Bradford [via waiver deal or in the minors when rosters expand in Sept.]

QUOTE (ptatc @ Aug 6, 2008 -> 07:26 PM) I agree. With the end of the season the older players will tire, more mentally than physically and the days off will help. It gives Ozzie a good balance to chose from. 2 lefties Griffey, Thome, 2 Righties Dye Konerko and one switch Swish (aliteration with the sw!!!). Now we just need the strating pitching to return to form and we're sitting pretty well. I think all the "Where will everyone play?" questions have been answered. And it's a great thing that, so far-publicly, no one has been moaning about lack of playing time. If the sox win, few negatives words will be heard. The key, I agree with you, is the pitching. The starters need to go 7 innings. Making the entire bullpen throw in each game is getting old.

I think it's also a matter of keeping fresh. Both guys have had some days off [which Swish has needed more than PK, who was off during his injury]. Rotating PK, Swish, Dye, Thome and Griff during the heat of August may see some dividends in Sept. with everyone being stronger.

Eyre had made some wise cracks about the sox when he signed with the Cubs. Really dogged them, along the lines of playing on the better side of town and would have little room to backtrack. Sounds like some personal issues when he was here. Don't see a fit.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Aug 5, 2008 -> 06:53 AM) It'll be Contreras but a Poreda call up would be pretty coolio. Assuming Logan still has an option, I'd look to send him down until September and try and catch lightning in a bottle with Poreda. Logan's ERA is 15.95 in his past 10 appearances (which is 7.1 IP and 13 ER with 16 runs allowed), has allowed a 1.375 OPS in that time span, and his WHIP is 3.41. He's only had one appearance where he recorded atleast 1 out and didn't allow a run (and that's exactly what it was...he got one out and was gone). Part of it is Ozzie misusing him but part of it is also because he's being exposed with the injuries to the team, which is no fault of his own. The part that is his fault is that he has sucked ass, and that's something that needs to be dealt with. Poreda gives you a guy that should be better than just a LOOGY, which is what Logan is (and he's still pretty effective at doing that, allowing a .708 OPS to lefties, compared to .900 vs righties), and he provides a better bridge to the other relievers. At this point in time, the bullpen needs a savior...Linebrink's out until atleast mid-August, and I don't think the Sox have the time to wait 10 days for his situation to clear itself up. Poreda's potential ability to be able to face both lefties and righties could be absolutely monumental for this team. Fathom brought it up a couple places last night, and I think it would be an absolutely fantastic move for the organization to make. To answer Flash...our Liriano is named Poreda. I'd like to see Poreda too. Yet the sox don't seem to like putting their minor league SP's in the pen. I've advocated that in the past. Other playoff teams do when they need help-Joba, Papelbon come to mind. If Poreda is as good as predicted, he could use the on-the-job training being in Chicago. If the sox call up an arm to pitch in the pen before Contreras takes the mound Sat, they should call up either Childers or Rodriguez from Charlotte. Both have been great pitching more than 1 inning at a time--IIRC, Childers has given up 0 runs in his last 10 games, like in 15 innings. Rodriguez just threw 3 innings last night. So he likely wouldn't be ready to give the sox any innings. Of the guys the sox have called up--Richard, Wasserman, Russell, and Carrasco--both Childers and Rodriguez have had better numbers.