caulfield12

Alvarado, it should be...correcting the names from Phillies' list from previous post. Would honestly rather watch Leury for 145 games than Kingery, and that's saying something.

But we also pursued Alex Gordon, that would have been a complete disaster. And curious why the pursuits of Machado and Harper and even Tanaka are not being included....the problem is that this kind of thinking is like Cubs' fans with their "mythical attendance championships" putdowns to Sox fans. In the end, GM's and managers are graded on W/L percentage and results in the post-season. I mean, pretty much every move that Hahn and KW made, starting from Dunn in 2011 through Robertson/LaRoche/Cabrera, 2016 and into the rebuild...you can find legit reasons why the move/s looked good on paper. We have witnessed many "won the off-season" articles. Interestingly, we didn't get that much hype last off-season, because the Lynn and Rodon were not really headline grabbers. But I'm not sure in a results-oriented business why coming up 2nd or having a seat at the table is supposed to be good enough. I mean, I guess we're conditioned to expect less as White Sox fans? Let's imagine this was a Dodgers, Yankees, Red Sox board...would anyone be applauding their GM's for coming up short or targeting the right players, but not having the farm system to execute a trade? We can say the same thing for NOT being able to trade for Miguel Cabrera back in the day...because the Tigers' package (at the time) was more enticing. Heck, even the Padres/Preller were crucified for their trade deadline moves and non-moves...it cost another manager his job and the GM will be next if they come up short again in 2022. What do we get, so far? A change in the strength and conditioning coach, pretty much that's it.

Buying at the market high for Schwarber without considering all the reasons the Cubs basically gave up on him...will end up with the White Sox following the same ultimate descent as the Northsiders. With Sheets and Grandal on the roster, we're just not going to spend that much money on the DH position...especially if they add a legit veteran catcher to really share the load with Yasmani. Including Collins, we already have 5-6 DH types on this team, as is. Why would would we keep spending FA money instead of addressing RF, 2B and the starting rotation?

Not sure you can afford to pay two "non-closers" in Tepera and Graveman the same the Dodgers with a much higher payroll are going to pay Treinen ($8 million) to close next year...at least, that's the official plan, until things change and they bring in a bigger name like Iglesias or Kimbrel.

The most important year of the window is 2027, because after that season, we would/could lose Luis Robert to an absolutely gargantuan FA deal. For the last year or so, I believed that Giolito and Tim Anderson were the keys to keeping the window going, but the Wander Franco situation reminded me about the true value of a superstar to a franchise. Of course, we can look at the Angels, who haven't surrounded their position stars with nearly enough pitching, they arguably have three superstars and still can't make the post-season. I do question whether they have the cojones to offer that Tatis/Franco type of money, or whether they're just content to let things play out through 2027, then go into another rebuilding period/cycle yet again. There's obviously a ton of risk (still) around Robert, mostly on the health side...but if he does put up an MVP season in the next year or two, that window to get anything approaching a "bargain" (from the White Sox perspective) will be LONG gone. It's certainly possible with the direction that the Tigers are going now that they threaten the White Sox sooner rather than later, but we have enough cushion with Moncada, Jimenez, Kopech, Cease and Vaughn to overcome that for at least the next two seasons. Then we face our first crossroads, after the 2023 and 2024 seasons. The Royals' run fell apart pretty quickly (injuries/aging/non-performance, signing Gordon), the Cubs faded away but were still competitive and the Astros have been the only team other than the Dodgers and the Red Sox to a much lesser extent to sustain excellence over a prolonged period of time. Then the Rays are right there in that the top of the next tier of organizations.

Look at the Rangers’ roster back then and how far they were from competing. Timing. https://bleacherreport.com/articles/52900-was-mark-teixeiras-trade-to-atlanta-the-worst-trade-in-braves-history Arguably, this was THE trade that kick started everything for their WS run, just like we dealt three assets in their prime for a slew of top prospects that mostly panned out.

Or they just bring back K.Jansen, but most likely to exercise $8 million option and pay Blake Treinen to close. Not to mention Graterol and pretty sure Knebel. Kelly’s also gone, it seems.

That’s the issue with Toronto and the Phillies, who both did relatively well with young/cheaper closers. There aren’t mote than a handful of logical matches…maybe 4-5 contending teams, tops.

That’s a pitching name that writes its own headlines if he takes a loss…

Or a Greek island…

Kind of crazy that Marcus Semien could end up with anywhere close to 3x greater than the Grandal deal in terms of overall dollars.

Then if he reversed track (signing Escobar), it would be a bit difficult to explain to fans in terms of what changed/improved exactly without raising some red flags. “They all but agreed to the trade about three weeks ago, but then Escobar hurt his quadriceps. Then the reliever the Diamondbacks were going to get back; he had a little problem, had to get a cortisone shot.” https://southsideshowdown.com/2021/07/19/chicago-white-sox-escobar-deal-was-place-fell-through/

Sounds like a new Crayola color…

Rodon now becomes the pitching mystery to watch of the offseason, along with Scherzer, Gausman and Kershaw…and, of course, the Kimbrel trade.

Assuming you went by end of season rosters, so Kimbrel was $5.3 million and Tepera at $266,667.

Wouldn't we be better off with Escobar AND Leury/back-up veteran catcher VERSUS $14.5 alone (basically a wash) with Kimbrel's salary? Not sure what argument there is there, other than about Hahn's ego needing to be massaged...he just better hope that Rodon doesn't repeat 2021 next year. If so, he needs to come up with the equivalent starter, because Kopech's results seem like they are about as predictable as Dylan Cease's, except far fewer innings, K's, etc. Can count on those two to destroy most of the AL Central, but against top teams, no idea what will happen.

Segura is going to be 32 at the beginning of next season and will give you a 2ish fWAR at second. Now is that really worth $12-14 million to the White Sox? Maybe. The problem is that that spot would have provided the same production, roughly, and maybe even more, for a FRACTION of the price had we kept Madrigal. Which, once again, is all fine and good at $190-200 million, but it really starts to sting in the $170-175 million payroll range. It means you're losing out on a starting pitcher, Marte/Conforto, etc. The real comparison should be 2/$20 for Escobar (roughly the same age, a bit older) versus slightly more for Segura AND basically getting nothing in return for Kimbrel that couldn't have been purchased on the open market (at even less $$$ per fWAR). Which ends up being a pretty negligible return for Kimbrel.

I'm guessing Kimbrel for Segura plus $2-3 million in cash? Something like that? Still think they're better off with a Kemp or McMahon (Tier B/C prospects) than spending $10-15 million on declining veterans.

Rodon and Escobar, haha...RF still a massive mystery if Conforto slips from their fingers. Might be a repeat of 2021. Gausman over Ray despite LHedness.

Kimbrel not being in red sticks out like a sore thumb since he didn't technically have negative fWAR and doesn't consider the players surrendered in acquiring him, either. We certainly didn't get the production of an elite $16 million closer who we paid a top of the market price for. What would be far more interesting is $$$/fWAR allocated across MLB bullpens the last three seasons.

But the Padres did actually win a playoff series last year. Nobody will be satisfied just having a seat at the playoff table next year...at least I hope aspirations are grander than that.

No, no and no. The only way this makes any sense is if you're 100% convinced his changes in one season from an erratic AZ career to TOR and top of rotation are sustainable. He used to struggle to get through 5 innings because of high pitch counts and elevated BB/K rates. He was like the mirror of a three outcome hitter on the pitching side. Much like Rodon before last year, incredibly frustrating to watch. The potential and stuff was always there, though.

This probably means they decided they can't afford both Tepera and Graveman too, so went with the better choice to their evaluators. The Dotel and Linebrink comparisons are the first that come to mind...as Crain was more of a value add with question marks who out produced expectations before breaking down. Now that's typically where we excel in the bullpen, not paying going market rates. Pretty much everyone questioned Herrera, it was quite obvious he was toast...and that they were attempting to catch lightning in a bottle. We still need to bring in 2-3 if not 3-4 Jimmy Cordero's and hope for just one of them to break through. The money should be reserved for Top 3 needs. And maybe this makes a Leury return more difficult unless the budget is a legit $190~200 million. I think most Sox fans would also like to shore up the backup catching spot as well with a veteran with solid defensive and leadership skills.

See Cano deal...

At the very least, their own closer in Iglesias....