caulfield12

QUOTE (Tex @ Jun 5, 2016 -> 07:36 AM) There are a small but vocal group of posters that only seem to show up to gloat that the team is failing. They represent about 80% of the complaints to mods that we receive. It's anyone's choice to follow a team they hate and which makes them feel horrible (although I wonder why). But when they are trolling other members it gets looked at. And there is a difference between feeling horrible when the team doing poorly and posting that and gloating that the team is doing horrible and that poster feels great that they were proven right about what a horrible team it is. The posters that genuinely seem to feel better when the team is doing worse really bring the site down even further than it naturally would. I don't think most of the fans who would like to see improvements from the front office and marketing/public relationship and talent evaluation side of things are so much hating on the team as expressing frustration...on one hand, all team message boards and especially game threads serve as an outlet for that. I bet long-time Cubs' fans are even more annoyed when all of a sudden a bunch of bandwagon fans show up and just post these excessively rosy and optimistic pie-in-the-sky proclamations about how they're guaranteed to win 3-5 World Series titles and that Epstein and Maddon are demigods who barely touch the ground when they walk on the hallowed Wrigley grass and every team's superstar franchise player could be obtained by the Cubs with a package of 4-6 Top 12-30 prospects. There's a difference between being realistic/pragmatic and ALWAYS seeing the worst side in every situation. I'm 98% sure between 2003 and 2010 the amount of complaints about negativity were much more limited. And it's also frustrating to see fans constantly/consistently receive blame when the White Sox have made so many just DUMB decisions financially that it's hard not to start questioning their judgment instead of giving them the benefit of the doubt. Have they earned the benefit of the doubt, really? Then you have another problem. The issues with this team over the last 3 seasons have been so endemic/pervasive...and yet there's a certain amount of frustration that nobody is really accountable for all of the failure. It's not Ventura's fault because managers don't really matter. It's not Hahn's fault because of KW. It's not KW's fault because of JR. Around and around it goes. If there was a reason to feel encouraged or to believe the "worm had turned" finally, it was those first 33 7/9th's games. To have that rug so quickly be pulled back from underneath our feet, to the point where we're now closer to 4th than 1st place after commanding the division and entire AL a scant 4 weeks ago, it's just frustrating.

https://weather.com/weather/hourbyhour/l/USMI0229:1:US 2-5 PM Eastern look like a mess...not sure if they wouldn't be better off having a couple more offdays to regroup in Chicago, but the last time they had a Thursday and Monday off consecutive (around the Yankees' series) it didn't turn out to have a beneficial effect. Going to be interesting to see what decision they make with the pitching staff because next Tuesday's game. Gonzalez down to AAA doesn't quite seem fair (as he has options which Latos doesn't). However, Purke or Sands to AAA with Latos becoming the long man would be my decision. Then again, the need for a long man is now further mitigated by having one of MLB's best innings eaters, leaving "insurance" for the 5th starter's spot and Rodon the main reason to carry someone who can give you 3-4 innings in relief, spot start for a DH and spare the rest of the pen from exposure.

http://espn.go.com/blog/sweetspot/post/_/i...te-sox-rotation ESPN also plays up the "preserving the bullpen" aspect of the move...keeping arms fresh in the second half, which will be like another trade if the White Sox can bring back a healthy Petricka and not burn through Putnam/Albers/Jones/Robertson too much. He does, however, come as advertised in terms of his ability to eat up innings. According to ESPN Stats & Info, Shields is the only pitcher to exceed 200 innings in each of his past nine seasons. Last season, his first with the Padres, he finished with 202 1/3 innings. Shields has also thrown 22 complete games, which is tied with the Detroit Tigers' Justin Verlander for the sixth-most thrown during the span in which he has been in the big leagues (2006).

Well, between those two, Scott Carroll, Purke and Mr. Kahnle...they might prefer the relative safety of Charlotte at the moment. And it's going to be getting even more interesting if they send Gonzalez back down for really no good reason, other than the fact they control his option/s whereas they don't with Mat Latos (as I understand it, correct me if I'm wrong).

http://www.baseballamerica.com/majors/trad...hnson-tatis-jr/ BA on the deal.

QUOTE (hi8is @ Jun 4, 2016 -> 08:52 PM) I was one of the biggest advocates here for getting Fowler or Desmond in addition to Jackson when Cespedes fell through. I know you're pissed off right now but you really have no facts to back up your speculations. Bruce could mash his way to 45 HR here. That comp pick could turn out to be an all star in 2019. I'm not happy about the team right now too but I see no use in getting ruffled panties. On a good note, I did brush my teeth this morning. Yay, me. True enough, but you always have to think in terms of probability or likelihood. We could get Jared Mitchell or Mike Trout with that draft pick...but more than likely that player contributes 3 war or less during a potential MLB career. As far as Bruce hitting 45 homers, it would be nice to see...since they're almost now forced to double-down (once again) and at that bat because what's the point in adding Shields if it's just for a single run in 2017? The problem is they're whittling the farm system down to merely kindling, but Hahn's pretty much putting his job on the line now. 2015, he could survive that miscalculation, but more missteps and, since they continue to back Ventura, who do you think's going to take the blame next? Self-preservation says Hahn/KW will have to fire Ventura and try that FIRST before the pitchforks and torches get too exuberant for blood higher up in the hierarchy.

The ball was hit almost exactly between them and I'm sure it was loud enough that Coats couldn't hear Shuck clearly...and also have a hard time imagining Shuck being as demonstrative or as commanding in that situation as he needed to be, especially considering the fact that Coats was the one who actually ended up making the play. Those split second decisions...that type of collision can happen with an infielder/outfielder or catcher/infielder just as easily. It wasn't about the manager, any more than Schwarber's injury was Fowler's fault or all the Royals injuries are attributable to Ned Yost. It happens. It's sports.

Well, at least you moderated your stance from them finishing behind the Twins. That would be a cataclysmic collapse from 23 7/9ths - 10 and the 2nd best team in MLB.

Maybe Shields coming back and beating the Royals will jump start this team...maybe! Of course, if they crush him, it could have the effect of further exacerbating the malaise and bad play.

QUOTE (Elgin Slim @ Jun 4, 2016 -> 06:51 PM) Completely agree, on the fact that the farm system has to be the foundation. They have to pour more money into scouting and player development, instead of saving it for the splashy move at the deadline. Go into the season with a sound team, and add to it when a) it makes sense to, and b) with a player that it makes sense to add. I have argued with buddies of mine that they should be going more for guys like Pineda and Bauer, talented guys who are cost controlled, have ace quality stuff and need a change of scenery, rather than high priced aging talent. Also, when you're not trying to win, try to identify free agents who have had down years and flip them on a bounce back year for either a failed guy with lots of talent that needs a change of scenery or talented guys at the lower levels of the minors. See Contreras, Freddy Garcia (although the price at the time seemed extremely high), Danks, Floyd, Jenks, Santos, Thornton and Marte, etc. For hitters, the 2004-2005 offseason still reigns as the best example, as a lot of those guys like AJ and Dye were still relatively close to their primes. Then that 2007-2008 cycle adding Beckham, Viciedo, Alexei, Floyd, Danks and Carlos Quentin. Everything else has been hit and miss. Steps forward and backwards. Rios and Peavy are perfect examples. The majority of their free agent acquisitions have killed them, especially LaRoche, Swisher and Dunn (in 2011). Javy looked great on paper but just wasn't a winning pitcher...sometimes that talent just doesn't translate to wins or good chemistry. More than anything, when you're constantly blending in players from other organizations...you never have cohesiveness and continuity, always searching and experimenting to try to find that magical winning combination but never quite having the resources to get the job done effectively due to the lack of revenue generation caused by the fans' well-earned distrust for and with the organization.

The same reason the team goes from Spring Training ending to the regular season and they always have 2-3 days to get everything organized for their big move... Just common sense. Why would a starter who won't pitch until Tuesday and already knows the AL so well need to rush to get to DET to watch Quintana pitch against Verlander? To be the new head cheerleader and team motivator/performance psychologist? If anything, it would completely smack of desperation if they pushed him to come fast. Introduce him to the media in Chicago on the offday Monday or more likely Tuesday early afternoon. MLB rules and regulations say exactly how much time the players are entitled to before they have to report, anyway. Not a White Sox policy, it was a union-negotiated one.

Elgin, and this is where you're specifically right here. Hahn's not a talent evaluation and development guy. Not his forte. It's the only reason Preller has a job still in SD, that's his major strength, minor leagues....talent evaluation and development. That has to be the foundation of a team like the White Sox with a middle 40-60% payroll but definitely not one who will be able to spend more than "average" until a new broadcast rights deal in 2019. Look at what he did in Texas while there: Odor, Profar, Leonys Martin, Odubal Herrera (now with Philly), Mazara (ROY), Chi Chi Rodriguez and a slew of other minor leaguers that gave them the depth to trade for Hamels. http://padrespublic.com/sacrifice-bunt/aj-...tten-strengths/ AJ Preller's Forgotten Strengths

Indians=Lindor, Ramirez, Carrasco, Danny Salazar, Carlos Santana, Jonny Gomes (Brazil) Royals=Escobar, Perez, Ventura, Herrera, Orlando (originally with Sox), Carlos Cuthbert (Nicaragua), Mondesi, Jr. We just can't come close to competing when the Tigers can buy anyone they want and the two best teams in the division are killing us and continue to kill us developing Latin American players. It's that simple. We were fortunate with Alexei, Abreu and Q, but missed badly on Viciedo and Avi Garcia. But hey, we're good at producing utility infielders. Carlos Sanchez and Eduardo Escobar. So there's that.

QUOTE (GreenSox @ Jun 4, 2016 -> 06:08 PM) E Johnson is major league pitcher, albeit one Cooper didn't like (and it's Cooper's world). Tatis is/was the best young international player org I see why the Sox aren't going all in on international players, unlike winning organizations...they don't value them. Meanwhile Williams and Hahn continue to employ Ventura and Cooper. Cooper also didn't like McCarthy and Hudson for mechanical reasons. That said, I'm still pissed he didn't have a clue how to help Liriano in 2012 after watching him so many freaking time since 2006 and the next year the Pirates' coaching staff came up with a very modern and effective strategy to get the most out of both him and Volquez. Then again, in the NL, Cueto and Shark look like Cy Young candidates when they were terrible in the Central.

Micker Adolfo is more likely to be a stud than Tatis, and the success rate from those signings is a LOT lower than the ROI in free agency, which is still pretty terrible. The last time we developed Latin American players (other than Carlos Sanchez), you have to go back nearly 20 years to Ordonez and Carlos Lee. All the Cubans came ready to play, Alexei, Abreu, Contreras and El Duque. We didn't "develop" Jose Quintana, but they do deserve credit for tracking him with the Mets and Yankees in their minor league systems.

And yeah, I'm usually doom and gloom too, but I have no problems with the trade...partially because I know what Shields has meant to the Rays and Royals from following those two teams closely. The ONLY problem I would have is if they don't address the OTHER obvious, elephant in the room hitting problems...and maybe find a replacement for Avila if he continues to have 0 homers and 2 RBI's into July. One more BIG bat (preferably with an 850+ OPS split against RHP) and a return to health from Jackson and Cabrera in the line-up changes things a lot. Obviously, no 2014-15 Abreu, they're still not going anywhere. Sale, Quintana and Rodon even feel like concerns right now, especially Chris and Carlos, and Jose in the sense that you don't want him to get down on himself again losing all these 1-2 run games with negligible run support. If Anderson and Fulmer are for real, then they just might be okay...not sure about 2016, but going into 2017, they have a shot. It just sucks we've given up so much ground winning the division feels like a pipe dream since we've shown no signs of being able to beat any of our divisional opponents other than the Twins.

QUOTE (ChiSox59 @ Jun 4, 2016 -> 05:48 PM) Youre not alone in your stance. His Bs and obvious agenda has bugged me for years, even when I was just a daily lurker and didn't post. He's one of the best five posters on this board, and he knows his stuff about non-baseball related matters as much as anyone here. It doesn't matter what someone's opinions are, or it shouldn't, as long as they are well-informed. And his always have been. If you went back about 5 years, you'd see guys like Balta or Lip were pretty consistently optimistic and hopeful. These last 4-5 seasons have taken a lot out of MANY White Sox fans, which have been reflected in the tv and radio ratings.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jun 4, 2016 -> 04:33 PM) And this is one of the two reasons I haven't been posting. Because if you're not a fan of this team, its now personal for too many people. Agreed, 100%. Being compelled to feel a certain way when when your heart and head tells you the opposite just doesn't sit well with me. It's like the more someone tries to convince you that your argument is wrong, the more hardened your position becomes. Having followed the White Sox for most of my 46 years on this planet, that Texas game and this past weekend against the Royals are hard to recover from...you need to have a really good manager, not just an "average/run of the mill" one. And it's not just one specific decision by Ventura, it's a serious of increasingly questionable decisions that have added up over 4+ years. There just haven't been many tangible signs of improvement in his managing, the first time you have hope that the worm has turned, then you have this complete collapse that just sucks the wind out of your sails and makes you want to give up on baseball for a while just for your sanity's sake. We keep hearing managers don't matter...especially the sabermetricians, but they hate discussing something that's not statistically quantifiable beyond something idiotic like pythagorean wins and losses.

Matt Kemp is available, KW, get it done!! Better yet, Kemp and Myers. Let's just start going crazy like Prince and AJ Preller in the 2014-15 off-season.

Trayce Thompson and Marcus Semien both make the All-Star team, and Frankie Montas becomes an ace set-up guy for Kenley Jansen. That's the direction this season is headed. Heck, for good measure, Trayce will probably be added to the Warriors' roster to play with his brother and rain down 2-3 treys in garbage time in a clinching Game 5 win at Oracle Arena.

I can just see adding Carlos Gonzalez or Bruce tomorrow. Margalus at SSS might need to rethink his position about the Padres being in even worse shape if Anderson and Fulmer both aren't impact players. Honestly, it really sucks being a Sox fan these days when you have guys like Beckham, Quentin, Viciedo and now Abreu start off with such promise and then completely fall apart. Eaton, Frazier and Saladino are the only reasons to watch, with Lawrie also slumping from his earlier form and Coats of course gets hurt his first game in the bigs. Hopefully he's not out for an extended period of time, as he deserves an opportunity for extended playing time. Does anyone enjoy watching Rollins, Avila, Shuck, Sands or Garcia hit? And, for most of the season, Austin Jackson could be added to that list of offensive anemia except at least he plays pretty good D still. Maybe Abreu comes out of it, but he's about as mentally shot as Matt Albers is right now. Feels like the whole team is shell-shocked, even Sale...and that's coming out of a series where they beat the Mets 2/3 on the road. We did give Pelfrey his first win of the season at least.

QUOTE (hi8is @ Jun 4, 2016 -> 04:58 PM) Realisticlly - there's no way to like this trade for this year unless we also complete more trades. There is also little evidence to support the idea that we are not making more trades. By the end of July, or sooner - I fully expect this lineup or similar: Eaton Cabrera Abreu Frazier Bruce Lawrie Jackson Anderson Navarro / Avila At which point Bruce will devolve into the player we've seen the last 2-3 seasons in CINCY but the White Sox will be short Spencer Adams. But that's great because we have a stupid compensation pick instead of Desmond or Fowler. That's really helpful about right now, as we're going to have to give up more than the equivalent of that pick just to get rid of all those AB's for Garcia, Sands, Shuck and Rollins.

Obviously, having Cabrera and Jackson out came at the worst possible time. But it's up to the coaching staff and front office to figure out how to get through it instead of watching things snowball. KC was 1 game under .500 and got to 8 games over while simultaneously having to replace 25-30% of their roster, including 3 All-Stars. Cleveland has been without Brantley, Almonte (PEDS), Byrd (PEDS), Carrasco missed most of the first two months, and yet that hasn't stopped them from getting on a run. Gomes is clearly not back to the same player he was before his injury, either. Their freakin' outfield is Rajai Davis, Lonnie Chisenhall and Jose Ramirez. C'mon!!!! Uribe and Napoli are playing key roles, too.

6-17 stretch after they were up 6/7/8 over their three main ALCD competitors. 3-11 against KC/CLE/DET "Hard luck" Jose Quintana vs. Justin Verlander looming...and then an off-day. Trading for James Shields when they have about 5-6 more obvious needs (although Latos has been pretty bad since his first 4 amazing starts to begin the season.) Brilliant! Starting to think that everyone needs to be gone...and then an objective outsider brought in to realistically assess a possible fix for 2017 before they consider blowing it up completely. You just added Shields' contract, so trading your core doesn't make much sense, especially when Abreu is worth about as much as a ticket to watch the US Men's Soccer Team these days. Tigers only 1 1/2 GB from knocking the White Sox back into 4th place. 1) Albers is cooked...so need to move Putnam to that role or add another reliever or pray Petricka comes back to form. 2) Sands/Shuck don't belong on an MLB roster. 3) Rollins and Avila also don't belong on the roster anymore 4) We only have three reliable relievers at the moment. 5) We have zero offense against RHP other than Eaton/Frazier/Cabrera. 6) Continued erosion of defense and more and more misplays recently...can't do much with RISP, every aspect of the ballclub is falling apart. Sale has lost his best fastball, Q's devolving into his hard luck/zero run support guy (joining Miguel Gonzalez), and Rodon can't take the next step forward, looking more like a 4 than a 2 at the moment. 7) Don Cooper looks like he's wearing pajamas rather than a big league uniform, and the team (other than Coats) is about as lethargic as a three-toed tree sloth or bear coming out of hibernation. Might need fresh blood across the coaching staff...things have just gotten stale. Pitch calling hasn't been good, are there any positives right now other than Eaton and Frazier? OR, Hahn just managed a smoke and mirrors start (fueled largely by wins over MN, OAK, Toronto and Texas) that created the illusion of a competitive team...?

Verlander vs. Q tmrw screams 1-0 loss for the Sox with 12 k's against a rejuvenated Justin who has been pitching much better recently. Now Saladino can't make the play in the sloppy conditions...needed to use his glove probably and just get rid of it as quickly as possible. Never felt so depressed about a White Sox team 2 games over .500 and possibly just 2 or no worse than 2 1/2 games back. Now Ventura has to use Duke. 6/15 with four doubles for Cabrera against Duke. Funny. Finally, mercifully that half inning is over.