caulfield12

http://pro.boxoffice.com/featured_stories/...ad-chip-sisters Predicted to come in at $229 million and smash the records of Jurassic Park for opening weekend and Hobbit series for December opening...and possibly wipe out Titanic and Avatar in total intl b.o. although that $2.8 billion with Avatar's a toughie.

http://www.baseballamerica.com/majors/trade-central-6/ Made me laugh....describing Frazier as a "hero" in Cincy. Detailed trade/prospect analysis from BA. They're not very high on Montas holding up as a starter, either. Some interesting stuff on Thompson's offensive surge as well. What are the DRS numbers the past 2-3 seasons from Frazier???

QUOTE (SouthSideSale @ Dec 17, 2015 -> 07:53 AM) No these aren't comparable. One is trading for an All Star 3B the other is signing 3 of the top outfielders (it was purely fantasy and sarcasm). They're going to shell it out sooner rather than later. They paid Abreu $68 million and didn't get a MLB at bat out of him at that time. They're going to do it eventually. Especially Sales next contract. I don't think that $200+ million deal comes from us for Sale. Just too risky. And I was talking about getting two of the big names (you can add Chris Davis), not 3/3.

Well, a week ago it was imaginary to acquire Frazier without giving up Anderson OR Fulmer. Granted, the double signing would be a lot less likely than the White Sox more or less standing pat from here on out...but that's also a realistic possibility. It's still a bit difficult to believe they're going to shell out their first $100+ million dollar contract.

Corner OF bat. Better insurance for Saladino than Sanchez...Desmond or Ramirez. Veteran second or third tier starter to replace Johnson if he falters early. One more RH reliever for the Albers role...Jones, Petricka and Putnam just feels a bit short, but that one's not the end of the world...or the second lefty. Right now the bench is catcher two, Shuck, Carlos Sanchez and a bit of a mystery...Avi, but he's more likely traded or in AAA unless he's a platoon DH partner with LaRoche.

QUOTE (PorkChopExpress @ Dec 16, 2015 -> 06:42 PM) At least half of Soxtalk would have a problem with it. That's just not going to happen, if for no other reason than Cabrera being forced to DH and wasting another $13 million or so on LaRoche's deal. Sure, if they were to spend $200-250 million, what's another $13 million I guess. There's that school of improbable thought. And certainly going five years on Cespedes and six plus on Upton carries a pretty fair amount of risk. These opt-out deals seem to be the norm at the moment, but that also would mean having to replace at at even higher cost an outperforming asset. Still, three years for Gordon and four for Cespedes would be all that should be guaranteed. Nevertheless, there's no conceiveable way it's Upton AND another one of those two, unless it's Ian Desmond in a Ben Zobrist swing man role where he becomes primary SS if Saladino flops or plays OF, 2b, DH and maybe 3b as well. That's from the lose one pick might as well blow them both school of thought from last year...obviously with future consequences for the farm system being damned.

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/white-sox-get...-181722163.html Passan article on the deal

No, but you need for the more average or semi-casual fan to believe that your team has at least a 50/50 chance to compete for a playoff spot. Those fans could care less about WAR or payroll obligations...they only care about wins and losses, and the team's place in the standings. http://www.cincinnati.com/story/sports/mlb...-reds/77444506/ Good article from Cincy paper about Frazier and the team's need to trade him, very laudatory... http://www.cincinnati.com/story/sports/mlb...-fans/75682648/ How will the Reds sell rebuilding to the fans? Worthwhile reading. Lots of examples (Cubs, Astros, Pirates, Royals, etc.) with plenty of quotes. Like the White Sox situation, the Reds held on too long with too many veteran players for "one last shot" at it and it has come back to bite them a bit, especially with the likes of Chapman, Frazier, Bruce and Phillips. They really don't have a whole lot to promote. Joey Votto. Billy Hamilton was a dud. Mesoraco and Cozart were hurt or didn't perform nearly as well as 2014. A Tigers' castoff (Suarez) was your main offensive highlight amongst the youngsters, and a batch of young rookie pitchers took a beating in the 2nd half.

QUOTE (mmmmmbeeer @ Dec 16, 2015 -> 11:56 PM) There was some talk earlier about what power JR has to make decisions, is he chairman or majority owner, etc... It really doesn't matter. JR and co. bought the team for $20M. Forbes puts their value at just about $1BILLION now. That's something like 5000% ROI (if I'm figuring that correctly) on $230M in annual revenues. Money should never be an issue with this franchise. JR could literally spend $500M on payroll for a single season and his fellow investors would STILL be in line to make a ton of money off of their investment. The difference between a $100M payroll and a $150M payroll, assuming the team with $150M payroll has some success, is not really much of gamble in the grand scope of things. Look, we've got Sale, Quintana, Rodon, and Fulmer cost-controlled for the next several years. Pitching wins in the playoffs. If there were ever a time to go all-in, it's now. I am forced to believe that KW and RH are saying the same things to JR and money will NOT be an obstacle as we continue to turn this team into a contender. Sox fans have no reason to be down on this team....we can, and I trust will, make the moves necessary to get back on the map as a respectable franchise. Not only that, but there's the huge elephant in the room, that media rights negotiation in 3-4 years. Typically, teams are doubling their existing rights fees and ending up in the $100-150 million range per year, on average (obviously the Dodgers are an outlier and the net effect won't be as positive as first believed by the new owners because of all the households that can't watch the Dodgers or ESPN, either). With the White Sox likely losing the Cubs from the Comcast deal (as they go independent), that would make it 50% Reinsdorf's Bulls and White Sox, 25% Blackhawks and 25% Comcast/NBC/Universal or whoever the corporate parent these days. One way or the other they need to be as well-positioned as possible to take advantage of that impending situation. The last thing they can afford to do is half-ass it for the next two seasons and then end up tearing it down again before 2018 (Lawrie, Frazier and Cabrera leaving at the same time, the Boras/Rodon impending free agency distractions like you're already seeing with Fernandez in Miami, etc.) If there's going to be ANY time in the next 4-5 years to tear it down or continue building/sustaining, it's going to be between the 2017 and 2018 seasons...with another important consideration being the fact that after 2018 there's going to be HUGE free agency class in terms of potential impact.

And it also relates to the amount of money Cespedes, Gordon and Upton are each going to receive. Cespedes will be an above average corner guy and borderline problem in CF. Upton's value mostly come from his offense, OBP and speed and adequate/average defensive skills overall. I guess the only way to demonstrate this is to get one of those outliers (negatively, Murphy) or Alex Gordon (positively) and see the effect overall on the entire team...it definitely seems that a tone is set (2012) or you can certainly see things get worse colletively as well, where every mistakes feeds on itself and it also affects pitchers/hitting as well.

QUOTE (RockRaines @ Dec 16, 2015 -> 09:16 PM) You cannot take injuries into account when building a roster unless they are injury prone. Our rotation is fantastic and our offense should be improved. One more addition and it's quite an offseason. The front end of the rotation is that. Danks is what he is. Johnson is the key. If he solidifies that spot, they're flying high. If not, then you're left with lots of bad options like Beck, Carroll, Jacob Turner and you're behind the 8 ball early, because the trade market won't have developed until late May. It would be pretty shocking if they forced Fulmer into the big league rotation at any point in the first half of the season, unless he was just lighting up Birmingham.

QUOTE (Hatchetman @ Dec 16, 2015 -> 09:15 PM) I can't recall the exact numbers but Sox position players had like 17 cumulative WAR, which was dead last or near it in MLB. good teams have about 40 WAR. So let's say Frazier gives you 5-6 extra. Lawrie 2-3. where's the rest coming from? I think a 5-6 net improvement is a lot more realistic. 7-9 just feels way too high. Lawrie has been injured a lot, and playing 2B everyday will exacerbate that possibility (it's why the Dodgers decided to keep Turner at 3B and didn't trade for Frazier themselves)...and his defensive skill-set and size/bulkiness right now are more well-suited for third. We do at least have a capable back-up option in Carlos Sanchez, especially from a defensive standpoint.

QUOTE (RockRaines @ Dec 16, 2015 -> 09:03 PM) The C platoon improves that spot. We've upgrade 3B and 2b quite a bit. If they add a good OF this offseason has been excellent. Avila, LaRoche, Lawrie, Eaton, Cabrera and Abreu all have to be considered "above average" health risks in terms of getting injured at some point or another. Things are certainly looking BETTER, but we're still trusting Saladino, Erik Johnson, John Danks, Avi, LaRoche and the bullpen a lot more than they probably deserve. At least one more offensive addition and 2nd/3rd tier veteran starter OR replacement for Albers would help, although Jones can help pick up the slack if he can stay healthy. The last two are more luxuries at this point, but the big bat is an absolute necessity or there are just too many flaws in the plan that can go wrong.

Flavum, surprised at you. Actually, there's 1/3rd of me waiting/hoping for them to shock the world and make that $100+ million free agent splash and the skeptic/doubtful side expecting us to miss out on Upton, Cespedes and Gordon for the typical Sox reasons. One thing's for sure, this board would be a lot more excited/optimistic/hopeful with that big splash addition. Without it, the general feeling is going to be mostly skepticism and "prove it!"

Would the White Sox pay Markakis $31.5 million for three years on the free agency market? That's the main point. And would it be enough of an upgrade to make it worthwhile (same with Fowler, Span, etc.) Probably not. Avi has little to no value right now, and the Braves would certainly not trade Inciarte straight up for Tim Anderson...not to mention the fact we'd suddenly have no SS or C of the future, essentially the two most important positions on the diamond.

Vernon Wells and Gary Mathews JR, not so much... They have been stung often and hard. It's ironic the "evil" Disney Empire was the one who ended up with the World Series trophy, and big spenders like Moreno and Illitch have ended up with egg on their faces (although obviously the Tigers are still a much healthier organization than they were when Buddy Bell was manager and had the worst record in the AL).

QUOTE (Jenksy Cat @ Dec 16, 2015 -> 08:11 PM) Unless Trayce and Micah get traded again, they will not be in the big leagues next year more than a late call up/pinch runner. Montas is the only one that has the potential to be anything more than an average major leaguer. The Sox cannot develop positional players so I'm fine trading lower level prospects for All Star black-hole filling third baseman. Right now, the Dodgers are projecting Thompson to platoon with Pederson in CF, Micah with Kiki Hernandez at 2B and Montas in the pen/AAA/or packaged for a frontline starting pitcher. That means Van Slyke and Ethier/Crawford (best deal available to Friedman) are likely gone. At least one of those three. Since they just went to the trouble of trying to project an image of solidarity between Puig and Kershaw down in Cuba, it's either they are set to keep Puig and repair the off-season PR damage/not sell low or the greatest con game in history. http://espn.go.com/blog/sweetspot/post/_/i...trade-with-reds

QUOTE (Rowand44 @ Dec 16, 2015 -> 08:06 PM) I agree with everyone that says we need to make another splash so we're not stuck in the middle. That said, while I'll be disappointed if we miss on one of the of'ers, I'm not going to be pissed off about the direction of the team cause I don't think we've given up anything we're going to regret in the future. But we can't completely dismiss out of hand the opportunity cost of 1) not having Semien, Montas, Thompson, Johnson, etc., over the next six years at cheaper rates, 2) the fact that we're essentially wasting money on Robertson for another year if we're not legitimately competing, 3) the fact that if these moves don't pan out we're going to be left with a "starting over/rebuilding" decision yet again before 2018 because of the departures of Lawrie, Frazier, Cabrera all coming at the same time. It's almost guaranteed to happen if we don't field a playoff team for two more years because the revenues will continue to decrease and media attention decrease in the face of the Cubs' resurgence. On the plus side, we still have Anderson, Fulmer and Adams. It absolutely has to be attached to another big bat because you can be sure Detroit's going to continue to add, KC has their two year window remaining before a rebuild, Minnesota will have a full (healthy) year from Buxton and Sano and they competed for a wild card spot until the final week, CLE added Napoli and Rajai Davis and they're still not done with marketing one of their young starting pitchers for another piece...there's just too many variables with injuries and non-performance to believe they can be better than 3-4 teams in their own division the way the team is currently constituted. And there's no luxury now for failure from Tim Anderson and Carson Fulmer. Finally, not having a long-term solution at the catcher spot and hoping/praying each year isn't a very sustainable plan. So JR has to swallow hard and allow for the first $100 million plus contract contract in White Sox history. Without it, the team would predictably end up in a terrible position negotiating for media rights in 2018/19 with a major rebuild and no marketable players if Sale, Abreu and Rodon were to be jettisoned.

QUOTE (SoxPride18 @ Dec 16, 2015 -> 07:42 PM) I agree to an extent. I could definitely live with Saladino at SS because we surrounded the infield with guys that can defend and hit. I'm also fine with a platoon of Laroche/Avi at the DH spot ONLY if we get Upton. So really, Sox sign Upton, I'm perfectly content with the offense. In terms of starting pitching, I'd be willing to take some gambles on Brandon Beachy, Tim Lincecum, or Edwin Jackson Medlen and Capuano are the only test cases so far for double TJ surgery...the Beachy situation as well, right? Buehrle's been mentioned. Gallardo would probably be too expensive, and certainly wouldn't fit with an Upton/Cespedes/Gordon/Davis or even Ian Desmond signing.

http://espn.go.com/blog/sweetspot/post/_/i...trade-with-reds Comprehensive analysis of the trade by ESPN gives White Sox and Dodgers winning marks, questions what the Reds were thinking... Looks like there's a good chance Thompson and Pederson could be platoon partners in CF. One thing is for sure, between Van Slyke, Crawford, Ethier, Pederson, Puig and Thompson, at least one of those players has to go (and the Dodgers would prefer to dump Crawford or Ethier and get younger).

Only if they don't improve RF, DH, SS and possibly add a veteran starter and/or reliever...in other words, no significant additions from here until ST. Whether it's the 2004-2005 or pre-2008 additions (Danks/Ramirez/Quentin/Floyd/Linebrink/Dotel), the White Sox and now the Cubs have shown that it's always going to be an equal combination of smart trades and youth/development/talent evaluation that makes for a winning organization. Obviously being in a position to select Kris Bryant and having the Astros pass on him for Mark Appel helped. Their offensive future wouldn't look nearly so bright without both him and Schwarber, as Baez and Soler have been exposed to some extent. The Arrieta pick up was obviously huge as well.

http://touch.latimes.com/#section/626/article/p2p-85342200/ Trade from Dodgers' perspective. Looks like Micah will be LH platoon partner with Kiki Hernandez at 2B (they didn't trade for Frazier directly because they were fearful Justin Turner's knee wouldn't hold up at 2B), Thompson figures as the 4th/5th OF (defensive replacement/PH) and then Montas could end up in the pen, AAA rotation or part of a package of/for Fernandez, Tyson Ross or one of the young Indians' starters.

Fernandez is only "possibly" being made available because of the dysfunctional organization/Loria and rumors he's (shock) unhappy with the direction of the franchise and unlikely to sign long-term/extend...if you can't figure out a way to take advantage from a marketing perspective of a kid like that in South Florida, I'm not sure what you can say other than good luck to Giancarlo Stanton, Barry Bonds and Don Mattingly.

QUOTE (SoxPride18 @ Dec 16, 2015 -> 05:43 PM) I just saw this. Made a thread about it lol. Too many misses with Trout and Pujols on the roster means that Moreno has to do something more substantive because they're a middle of the road, borderline contender as currently constructed.

QUOTE (fathom @ Dec 16, 2015 -> 05:35 PM) There were heavy rumors a few years ago that they didn't care for each other No new oufielder and Saladino at SS means the Frazier deal is essentially for naught... Hopefully Abreu has some sway with Cespedes. Bringing any NL player to the Sox brings some level of trepidation, two (that includes Puig, Ethier and CarGo) just seems like asking for trouble. Gordon and Cespedes at least have both proven they can excel in our division and are more comfortable fits compared to the higher price tag and streakiness of Upton.