caulfield12

QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Jul 13, 2016 -> 04:13 PM) Hmmm, not sure that has anything to do with you polishing his hall of fame statue every day when he came up. Nor does it have anything to do with you declaring he was the best centerfielder in the league despite him playing the position like 3 times that season Well, not every prediction is going to be right...and just because a player has all the tools in the world doesn't mean they're going to take advantage of them. I remember back in 1985, I must have bought 100 Eric Davis rookie cards thinking he was going to be the next Mays/Mantle. Didn't happen. By WAR, Puig's at 1.0 (and looking at around 1.5-2.5 for a full season assuming he stays healthy and continues his recent improved play). That would place him 34th out of 53 in the category (qualified number of AB's). Not nearly up to the standards of his first two seasons, but if a bunch of "Avi Garcia could do that in his sleep in RF" posts come up, it will be pretty amusing. In the context of AL MLB outfielders, 48th-51st out of 197 total players. So, if that's not a starting outfielder, I'm not sure what is.

Cespedes right now is projected as the only $100 million contract, assuming he doesn't go back for one of those "year at a time" deals. It's pretty hard to imagine Bautista or Encarnacion at their respective ages getting that type of money. $60-75 million would seemingly be about the max, like Zobrist last off-season. Then, when you consider losing a 1st round draft pick as well...just don't see many of these players being good matches when you consider the overpay involved, and the fact that, other than Colby Rasmus (an enigma of his own, ala JD Drew) and/or Carlos Gomez, there aren't many viable options for CF. Houston is also bringing up Alex Bregman over the weekend (to play 3B), so that will push Valbuena/AJ Reed/Gattis into shared at-bats...so, in the end, you'd have to think at least one or both of those guys will be available at season's end with all the young talent pushing up from below.

QUOTE (almagest @ Jul 13, 2016 -> 04:03 PM) If the Dodgers don't want too much for him (Hawkins? Adams?), and I don't think they can ask for too much, given his reputation and numbers the last two years, he's a guy I'd take a chance on for sure. He's cooled off a bit lately, but over the last month he's hitting .317/.417/.467/.883. If you assume he'll bounce back even to last year's numbers (OPS+ 110), he's still miles better than Avi or one of our many 4th outfielders. I think Bruce and Cargo are pipe dreams at this point, so the Sox are in the position where they need to look at moves like this. No one's going to just give us currently productive players for nothing, we don't have much trade ammo left at all , and there isn't much on the free agent market next year. Saladino has a higher WAR than Bruce, who can only realistically DH on a contending club.

QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Jul 13, 2016 -> 02:49 PM) Puig is the best centerfielder that plays right field since Clemente "Traditionally, centre field is not a premium offensive position," Hahn said. "You put a premium offensive player (Avisail Garcia) at a premium defensive position, it puts you in a pretty good spot for a club going forward. "We are not married to the idea of him playing centre. We wanted to take a look at it, get to know the kid a little bit better. He's extremely athletic, he has a world of tools and we want to give him the opportunity to play it out again at the premium position, even if he ultimately does wind up at a corner here in Chicago." http://m.bluejays.mlb.com/news/article/55983572/

http://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/2016-m...?ex_cid=rrpromo Tied for the eighth likeliest probability to make the playoffs with the Mariners and slightly ahead of KC and NY. http://www.fangraphs.com/coolstandings.aspx 9th...at 8.4% Last year, the Orioles and Twins were flawed teams, as were the Angels. Highly doubt we see the same regressions from Boston, Toronto and Houston this year...because all of those teams are going to make improvements the next 6 weeks (or already have, in the case of Ziegler to BOS). Seattle also has more motivation (and resources) to make a move and reverse their slide. And the projections aren't factoring in Wade Davis and Lorenzo Cain returning from the DL, for example. All things considered, from where we were last year the final week of July, we're pretty much treading water...you can certainly argue the 23 7/9th's - 10 record to start was a sign of progress, but then May/June has been a brick wall that stopped that progress in its tracks. I'm not even 100% sure that their 7 consecutive late July wins last year after a terrible start didn't provide more hope than White Sox fans currently have about the team's prospects of making the playoffs in 2016.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jul 13, 2016 -> 08:49 AM) Yet you would have had no qualms about including Thompson in the Samardzija trade. It's in your posts for everyone to see. Gee, that was at the end of the 2014 season. SOMETHING DIFFERENT HAPPENED IN 2015....gee, I guess we shouldn't adjust our thinking in any way, shape or form as a result of new evidence, which should LOGICALLY be weighted more heavily than previous seasons.

QUOTE (bmags @ Jul 13, 2016 -> 08:44 AM) Let's do player a/player b (stole from SSS): Player A: .242/.307/.477, 11 2B, 19 HR, 29 BB, 78 K, 109 OPS+ Player B: .213/.305/.476, 9 2B, 25 HR, 40 BB, 85 K, 110 OPS+ A is Semien. B is Frazier. Surprised Trayce Thompson wasn't included. You're also not taking into account years of control/salary in 2016 and 2017. Finally, almost everyone would agree that getting those numbers from SS/CF/C should be a priority before all other positions.

QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Jul 13, 2016 -> 08:38 AM) They had more players in the Majors or upper minors that could handle those positions than they had at any other position on the diamond, that what is meant by "out of depth." They could have had 15-20 middle infielders under 6 years of control and it wouldn't matter one iota if none of them were major league regulars. 90-120 years of control!!! Amazing. It also doesn't explain trading Thompson when they had zero depth behind him. If all of those infielders were such quality depth, they wouldn't have had Gillaspie/Beckham there ahead of them....and then traded for Todd Frazier the following off season.

QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Jul 13, 2016 -> 08:35 AM) Who is "we"? Seriously, you are just making stuff up. Any time you are called out on your broad generalities or hindsight opinions you default to "well everyone said at the time..." Or "well other people on the board said it" Okay, I'm sure Dick Allen can search through every past thread over a decade and find: 1) Those who thought Saladino could/should start at 3B/2B heading into 2015 (pretty limited to those who ONLY looked at his stats and not what actually happened to end his 2014 season). 2) Those who thought Micah Johnson could/should start at 2B. 3) Those who thought Carlos Sanchez could/should start at 2B/3B. LOL. Every time Hahn makes a mistake, the consistent defense is "a bunch of random people on a White Sox messageboard were in favor of the move at the time and felt it was logical, seemingly, therefore....there was nothing wrong with it." Now how does that make any sense? Since when should that be the standard or benchmark?

I guess that means you wouldn't want Andrus, Aybar, Bogaerts, Escobar, Jordy Mercer, Asdrubal Cabrera, Gregorious, Brad Miller or Alexei to play SS for your team, either? http://espn.go.com/mlb/stats/fielding/_/po...true/order/true Eight MLB shortstops have more errors, out of 26 qualified. Bogaerts, Russell, Story, Cozart and Ahmed all have 9, along with Semien. So that puts him right around the average. First in total chances, over Lindor. First in range factor. But yeah, keep repeating the same mantra from last year that he's still terrible defensively when that case is no longer supportable by any credible evidence.

QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Jul 13, 2016 -> 07:53 AM) you seriously have named them multiple times in this thread. the pool of Sanchez/Davidson/Saladino/Anderson/Johnson were all thought to be possible replacements or trade chips for replacements. You are just arguing anymore to see yourself argue, with hindsight points that change from sentence to sentence. But how can we honestly say Semien was traded "out of depth" when none of those players were clear/sure-fire/ready-to-go replacements at either 2B or 3B? They were possibilities. Actually, you'd have to believe the White Sox valued Conor Gillaspie and Gordon Beckham more at 3B based upon their actions (or lack thereof). Isn't that also part of the reason Emilio Bonifacio was acquired, to share time at 2B and give Micah Johnson some competition (PR/outfield, 3B, etc.) We said all along that if you merged Saladino/Micah/Carlos/Leury into ONE player, then you might have a major league regular. Saladino was also coming off an injury that was going to limit him heading into 2015 (at least there was the idea he wouldn't be ready to start the season or even maybe be ready to go in May). Trey wasn't even close to the majors (he still isn't 1 1/2 years later) and Davidson had a 644 OPS in AAA, so it would have been nearly impossible to project him as a starter coming into 2015.

Apparently FOX NEWS and Rush Limbaugh and conservative talk radio do not exist. And about 85% of small/regional newspapers in the US. By the way, it's AG (Attorney General), not DA (District Attorney). Slight difference!!!

QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Jul 13, 2016 -> 07:46 AM) The Sox did not "give up on" Marcus Semien. They wanted Samardzija and they traded from depth. It costs talent to get talent. Who were their future 2B and 3B at that time?

QUOTE (FT35 @ Jul 13, 2016 -> 06:29 AM) See I disagree with this perspective. I don't think the Sox set out to actively trade the guys you mention nor do I think they gave up on the process after too short of a sample size. I think they USED the young guys to get what they wanted at that time--then got STUCK with the guys no one wanted! (Beckham, Viciedo etc). I could be wrong, but I am assuming that there are not many teams calling Hahn trying to get Carlos Sanchez nor is Rick Hahn actively shopping Sanchez as a centerpiece of a trade because he hasn't panned out. But if Hahn was looking for a Jay Bruce type player, the Reds might think to include Sanchez-- a young, cheap player with MLB experience--especially with an aging 2nd basemen on their MLB roster. Same goes for Shark. They weren't looking to trade Semien, they were looking to acquire Shark because they thought he was a top of the rotation RHP that could compliment who we have. It was a GREAT thought and one worth overpaying a little on the prospect side to get done. Semien had showed something to everyone--including the Sox. We didn't MISS the boat on him, we leveraged him. Now...that didn't pan out the way we had hoped because Shark bombed here, but I bet you a dollar, Hahn would make that trade again because the logic was sound behind it. Or they undervalued Semien and overestimated how easy the transition to the AL Central would be for a two-pitch NL pitcher. Cueto learned the hard way. He almost had a 5 ERA, now he's likely to win the Cy Young the next year. Think he got reminded again last night why he's better off in the NL West than the American League.

Should be 1-3 game playoff (usually sudden death) to eliminate one team if they had different division winners in the 1st and 2nd half...then go on to the championship series. We had to play Columbus in 1995 (sudden death playoff) on the road against Jaret Wright, and somehow managed to beat him, then wiped out Piedmont (used to be Spartanburg) in the championship series (Phillies).

LF--I'll cede that to the Cubs CF--Bradley, Jr. over Fowler RF--Betts clearly over Heyward 3B--Bryant SS--Bogaerts 2B--Pedroia over Zobrist, close battle, could go either way...Zobrist isn't the strongest infield defender 1B--Rizzo over Hanley DH--clear advantage to Ortiz over anyone the Cubs have (Baez/Soler, etc.) C--slight advantage to the Cubs, Swihart and Vasquez have been disappointments, but so has Montero...win this one because of the last month of Contreras 4 go to the Cubs. 5 to the Red Sox

Is unobjective even a word? Unless the Cubs are playing the White Sox, they don't have a marked advantage in the DH category. Seriously, the Rangers have better hitting than the Cubs, up and down that line-up.

Contending for 3-5 years would be a minor miracle. So let's worry about "half a decade" or merely getting back to the playoffs before the Marlins, Padres or Mariners. Two of those teams (Miami/Seattle) probably have better opportunities to make it (to the playoffs) than we currently do. It's only SD that is totally screwed, although they'll get some nice pieces back for Drew Pomeranz should they choose to trade him this July.

QUOTE (Y2JImmy0 @ Jul 13, 2016 -> 05:42 AM) Saladino can't play the OF anymore. Because of the surgery? That doesn't exactly make sense, because if he can play SS and make a throw from the hole flat-footed, why wouldn't he be able to play LF and maybe even CF?

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2016/07/2017...rankings-4.html Obvious White Sox FA targets: Bautista/Encarnacion (both too old but won't stop a team from overpaying) Josh Reddick Ian Desmond (this time the cost will be 4-5 years and $60-80 million) Kenley Jansen or Aroldis Chapman (if they trade Robertson, which is highly unlikely) Wilson Ramos/Wieters (two obvious catching targets) Dexter Fowler Mark Trumbo Michael Saunders Carlos Gomez/Colby Rasmus Neil Walker Rich Hill Not a whole lot of talent at all to spread around the entire majors, this time around. Almost nothing on the starting pitching market, just a lot of spare parts and veteran relievers...

http://espn.go.com/blog/chicago/cubs/post/...t-to-his-father Of course, the obligatory "feel good" All-Star story for Chicago is Bryant and his father getting revenge on Chris Sale...

East Coast Media/Gammons/ESPN cannot turn on one of their own "heroes." It would undo too much of 2004/07, the Boston Marathon stuff...and they've already lost Manny Ramirez from prior icon status for that same reason.

Which is, once again the reason why Lawrie, Frazier, Cabrera and Robertson won't be traded. The ONLY one of those that's defensible is Robertson, based on: 1) Clearing $22 million in salary (which can be used for a hitter/hitting/bench) 2) Believing Nate Jones is ready to step in 3) Having confidence that Fulmer/Burdi/Hansen/Danish/Ynoa/Guerrero/Stephens can help to fill the bullpen void this year and next 4) Getting back some additional pitching help in that deal...although hitting's the primary target as outlined below 5) Belief that one of Putnam/Petricka makes it back for next season (at the same performance level) Of course, if you're trading with the Cubs (for Robertson), you're asking for Baez or Almora, Jr., back in return. Almora can play CF, so you keep Eaton in RF. Not sure how ready they are to trade Baez. I think they're hedging their bets, and have already moved on from the idea of Soler being a significant contributor. That said, there's going to be a jam of DH/corner outfield types if Contreras doesn't stick at catcher and Schwarber isn't traded. I guess McKinney's the other player they would be targeting....as well as Vogelbach, although he seems to be one of those guys who puts up huge numbers in the minors but ends up a AAAA player in the end. Then again, he could surprise everyone, the "overlooked" prospect who made good despite being hyped less than guys like Lake and Alcantara.

I don't disagree with the assessment Anderson is the better SS and has MORE potential (at that particular position) than Semien. That's not the debate. It's whether Semien could have played 2B or 3B....which would have preserved the longer window of contention. That clocked started ticking as soon as Frazier was brought on board, along with Melky's contract expiring. Even if they didn't sign either player to an extension (freeing up $25-30 million), it's not going to be easy to fill those TWO holes in the free agency market in 2017-18. With how things are trending financially, you get two second tier FA's at overpriced rates or you really overpay for one superstar type (like Cespedes this year) and try to fight to fill in the other holes for a pittance. I'm also not questioning what they gave up to acquire Lawrie. It was a risk worth taking, and nobody wanted to see Sanchez given the starting job, at least not many. (Now you can debate whether Saladino could hold down 2B and do it better than Lawrie, but there's not much evidence to support that...because Saladino's seeing favorable match-ups in his part-time work and Lawrie has already put up some quite strong WAR years at a young age at the big league level). I guess we'll see how it all plays out....whether Saladino (as a starter/supersub), Semien, Sanchez, Thompson and Montas would have given them a better chance to win (or make further trades) than what they have right now. You can also argue that Phegley's bat would have come in quite handy this year.

They can't trade Frazier anyway. Not if they want to compete in 2017. Unless they're counting on Saladino again at that position. Or Davidson. At any rate, it won't happen as long as Hahnilliams is still around to make the decisions.