caulfield12

QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Jun 15, 2015 -> 09:18 AM) Not Fullerton. Esch can pitch, that is for sure. Was drafted high himself (some rumblings that he was going to sneak into the back of the 1st but ended up going in the supplemental / comp rounds). His mate, Justin Garza, was just as good as he was with a more explosive fastball but underwent surgery about a month ago. I kept saying he'd have been a great pick but the Tribe grabbed him in the tail end of day 1. Santa Barbara City College and then UC-Irvine for Axelrod. Now starting for Louisville/AAA.

QUOTE (BlackSox13 @ Jun 15, 2015 -> 08:54 AM) The answer is none. You do not discount the likes of Abreu, Sale and Q. You are coming from a perspective of desperation if you are willing to discount any of those three to trade them. Other teams would be desperate to obtain them and not the other way around. While the Sox season does not look good, no desperation move(s) will fix the teams problems in 2015. Just accept it. Talk about panic mode. I'm not even thinking about 2015...at least not after this next week of play. It's already onto planning for 2016. Nothing to panic about anymore....they essentially have the worst offense and defense in baseball, and unless they use surpluses in pitching (Samardzija/Quintana/Putnam/Duke/Petricka) to improve that standing, there's simply no way they're going to make the playoffs in 2016 other than "hoping and praying."

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jun 15, 2015 -> 08:45 AM) Most importantly the meatball fans would declare WHITE FLAG 2, and this franchise would be dead for a decade. This is where Balta says, but this franchise HAS BEEN DEAD for nearly a decade. Even if it's 1984-1987 bad, and that's actually next to impossible with the stadium lease agreement with the state, the overall profitability of the team will still continue to climb quite nicely whether attendance was/is 800,000 or 1,800,000. As it stands right now, we saw one of the ten highest percentage-wise season ticket growth rates this offseason and we're still 27th in attendance. How can we go much lower? We will pass Miami, Tampa Bay and Cleveland?

QUOTE (Y2JImmy0 @ Jun 15, 2015 -> 08:41 AM) Well fWAR is better because it tells what should have happened rather than what actually happened. And that's where you will find a bunch of experts who will say, "who cares what SHOULD have happened...because it didn't." We have an equal duty to explain reality...because it's nearly impossible to use defensive ratings to project accurately what SHOULD happen any more than an algorithm can predict an event like 9/11 or the credit default swaps throwing the stock market completely out of whack. It's getting better and better, but it's not like it's the be all, end all when it comes to assessment. Living in that hypothetical universe, the 1994 White Sox SHOULD have won the World Series, and advanced to the playoffs in 2003, 2006, 2010 and 2012. It's why adding up the WAR of individual players doesn't usually come close to telling you which teams are the best, or will perform the best in the post-season. It's just one snapshot. It did, on the other hand, inform us quite early that the off-season changes made weren't going to make this team a playoff contender.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jun 15, 2015 -> 08:39 AM) Hooray for appeasing the fan base! Yay, a net increase of 1,750 per game that will all be erased this coming off-season anyway.

QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Jun 15, 2015 -> 08:31 AM) Please tell me who are studs. This team needs moar Jackie Bradley How come everytime I crack a joke when you make s*** up, you defer to "OMG MAYBE THE MODS SHOULD TELL US WHAT WE ARE ALLOWED TO TALK ABOUT BECAUSE THEY ARE THE EXPERTS"? lol If you comb through pages and pages of "draft talk," it seems a lot of stuff was just conjecture, was it not? By definition, if people weren't making stuff up or theorizing or hypothesizing, then they possessed inside information. And sure, Lorenzo Cain 2-3 seasons ago didn't look all that different from Jackie Bradley, Jr. today, depending on which scout you talked to.

QUOTE (BlackSox13 @ Jun 15, 2015 -> 08:30 AM) Please, Abreu carries plenty of value Caulfield and you know this. It's easy to say trade Sale or Q but what are their values? Of course, he has plenty of value. But "our" version of plenty might not be another team's. At the end of 2014, his value was certainly higher than it is now...same with Eaton, Quintana, Samardzija and Abreu. The question is how much the White Sox are willing to "discount" from that established offseason rate. If it's 50 cents on the dollar, that's not going to help much for the future...it will just end up causing rebuilding to take that much longer.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jun 15, 2015 -> 08:25 AM) Check fangraphs. Then pop off. Also, 1.8 vs. 1.0 isn't one full point. So obviously there's a huge statistical formula differentiation from dWAR, fWAR and whatever ESPN is using. Tell me in your own words why Fangraphs has a better number....something besides, "but it's from Fangraphs so it must be right." Because obviously if one system or another's proven to be BETTER and more accurate, then everyone would have a vested interested in adopting or improving it. It has already happened with fielding ratings going from UZR to Range Factor to Net Fielding Wins to Defensive Runs Saved in the span of less than 5 years.

QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Jun 15, 2015 -> 08:20 AM) Maybe we shouldnt pull everything out of our asses in order to comment and consider ourselves erudited? Then you tell me....who are the experts at this site that have insight into EXACTLY which players other teams are making available in a potential Chris Sale or Jose Quintana trade? By definition, nobody in here works for a professional baseball team, so, everything here is going to be 100% speculation (or intentional leaking) and primarily "researched" by going through "collection" sites like mlbtraderumors. When guys like Jayson Stark, Gammons, Ken Rosenthal, Phil Rogers or Keith Law write, they're way off at least 50-75% of the time. That's probably still more successful than the local Chicago media.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jun 15, 2015 -> 08:21 AM) No I didn't. We all know Josh Phegley can't keep this up. And the great Marcus Semien is fading fast while still "holding his own" at SS with only 22 errors. http://espn.go.com/mlb/stats/batting/_/pos.../qualified/true You're only off by one full point in your WAR numbers on Betts. Not a big deal. Statistics.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jun 15, 2015 -> 08:12 AM) Betts is a 1.0 WAR player right now. So is Josh Phegley. Bogaerts is a 1.4, 7th in baseball for SS and he is 22. You just made the case we've already made a terrible trade for Jeff Samardzija...and it will only get worse in the coming years. At any rate, Boston isn't going to trade either Betts or Bogaerts.

QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Jun 15, 2015 -> 08:04 AM) I love when you browse team prospect rankings and start talking about teams. lmao Because I'm sure you know every single team's top 30 prospects and have watched all their videos, lmao. Probably you're going to be following in the footsteps of Kevin Goldstein and Keith Law with your erudition. Maybe we should just have the moderating team and the minor league "reporters" be the only ones at the site "eligible" to make comments on any player. That would be a lot more fun for us to just sit back and learn from the experts.

QUOTE (Dunt @ Jun 15, 2015 -> 07:53 AM) Ya that .237/.296/.381 line is truly elite....so stud, much wow. I'm talking about his defense, mostly. His offense has been erratic, sure. Look at the WAR ratings. He'll start to jump out soon enough. http://espn.go.com/mlb/war/leaders/_/type/...nsive/year/2015 He's Top 20 in the majors defensively among all players. Teams are going to pay J. Heyward $100+ million for less offense and a corner instead of CF spot. Same with Alex Gordon. Betts is going to be a very valuable player for them going forward. Not to mention his pittance of a salary compared to Heyward/Gordon, etc. If we're going to laugh or scoff at CFers who put up an OPS around 700 while playing close to elite defense, we might as well give up trying to compete in the new era of baseball because we're going to continue to be terrible offensively AND defensively....at the very worst, if you're not going to score, you should have elite defense and pitching (both starting and relieving) in order to field a competitive team.

QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ Jun 15, 2015 -> 06:01 AM) And they are more talented at every position in the field except for RF & LF, and the Sox LF is extremely underachieving. Even then, I'm sure 75-80% of scouts would pick Soler over Garcia straight-up. It would be an interesting discussion at least. Both have quite a few flaws, but still possess big-time raw potential as well.

QUOTE (OmarComing25 @ Jun 15, 2015 -> 06:57 AM) Not to mention that nearly all their moves this past offseason have worked out while nearly all of ours have blown up in our face. I still don't understand how Hammel is doing so well for them, he got pounded in Oakland last year. The same reason the majority of NL players that came to the White Sox have been disappointments...

QUOTE (glangon @ Jun 15, 2015 -> 07:17 AM) I was going to mention poor base running but the Tampa Bay base running was as bad as ours. As for Game 2, yes there was some defensive issues, but neither Putnam nor Petricka could complete the three outs. Samardzija had worked his way out a few jams for the previous 7 innings. It was 3 outs and we get to D-Rob and they couldn't get them. I agree that we aren't benching Beckham, Flowers and Ramirez but we're also not benching La Roche and Sanchez's offense has just disappeared. Outwith Abreu and Garcia, we have nothing. Boneyfishio sits on his hands most games and when he does come in, he grounds out. Soto doesn't hit much better than Flowers and when Gillaspie does pull a pinch hit home run, rather than stick with the hot bat, we bring in a cold bat. I'm frustrated because I see three games that we should have won and instead of winning them and sweeping the Rays, we're 0-3 and facing a very hot Pirates team after another frustrating series. Part of the issue is the lack of flexibilty, we have Beckham and Boneyfishio on contracts without options, most other teams would have rookies with options who they could option down and replace them if they are struggling. If we want to freshen up our line up, we can only option down Sanchez or a pen arm or eat the money for Beckham, Soto, Flowers, Bonafacio or anyone else who is struggling, which means that the guys hitting in Charlotte can get as hot as they want, they know that barring injury, they are going nowhere. In reality, it doesn't matter what anyone in Charlotte does, unless they're serious about Kevan Smith (which is doubtful, simply because the idea of a rookie catcher with his background leading a staff to the pennant is pretty implausible, this year or next). Thompson is currently being projected as a 4th/5th outfielder. That only leaves you Leury Garcia, Micah Johnson and Saladino they'll look at when/if they trade Ramirez. What they REALLY need to do is move on from Ramirez (it's already one year too late), DFA Bonifacio (which they won't do, they'll desperately attempt to get something back for him in July or August)...and give up on Beckham. Conor can go back to playing most of the time at 3B until they find an everyday replacement at that position and SS with projected trades of Samardzija, Ramirez, maybe Quintana and Putnam/Petricka/Duke (if anyone will bite). I honestly think Beckham's better off in another organization where he doesn't carry the weight of the 2008 draft spot/Golden Spikes Award and 2009 rookie season around with him. Too much water under the bridge with believing in him, only to end up disappointed over and over and over again (yet we never learn our lesson).

QUOTE (Y2JImmy0 @ Jun 15, 2015 -> 06:55 AM) This is true. And there are less than 5 teams in baseball that would be capable of putting a package together and those teams would never trade those players. Boston was always the rumored team. They are so "LOADED". I don't want their overhyped bum ass prospects though. Sale is going nowhere. Betts is already close to being a stud. Bogaerts hasn't quite become the star everyone projected, but he's not Middlebrooks by a longshot. Then there's Bradley, Jr. Eduardo Rodriguez (came from Baltimore for a certain Yankee LHR) looks like he could be legit. Then there's Swihart (catcher). They've got a lot of pieces but no idea what to do with all of them, like Rusney Castillo. So you'd ask for Moncada (probably be rejected), fall back to Swihart, Rodriguez or Henry Owens (maybe Brian Johnson), Rusney Castillo and Rafael Devers. Without Moncada, Betts and now Rodriguez....not sure the White Sox would be interested.

QUOTE (glangon @ Jun 15, 2015 -> 03:33 AM) We lost each game due to the 3 reasons that we've sucked this season. We lost Game 1 due to the Defense. We lost Game 2 due to the Bullpen. We lost Game 3 due to the Putrid Offense. All 3 of those games we could have won. All three of these games we blew due to these areas. If the defense has supported Danks properly then we'd have won game one. If Putnam and Petricka could have just gotten 3 outs, we'd have won Game 2 and if the Offense could have hit a single with any of the numerous runners in scoring position in Game 3, we'd have won that one. The Parent call on Eaton worked as he went on a tear when he was used after the benching. Now they need to do the same with Ramirez and they need to stop messing about with the pen. You forgot to add poor base running. And, let's face it, Game 2 was as much or more about Alexei Ramirez not making two plays he normally makes in his sleep. To put that loss/blown save on Putnam and Petricka isn't really accurate. Unfortunately, we aren't benching Gordon Beckham, Tyler Flowers and Alexei Ramirez. While Gordon finally broke his 0/25 slide, he also committed an error. This is merely things evening out again, it's baseball. We just went 5-1 against a first place team in the Houston Astros. We could play them 25 times in six game sets and probably would go 5-1 only once or twice. Remember, we had 4-5 huge comeback wins early in the season that didn't fit with our pythagorean numbers, suggesting our "real" record should actually be the worst in the American League. The fact is, even with Abreu, LaRoche, Melky, Avisail and Eaton, we're on a pace to score less runs than the horrendous 2013 team. That takes some doing.

QUOTE (Joshua Strong @ Jun 15, 2015 -> 12:58 AM) His girlfriend held a seat. He gave her one during their first board meeting. Monica + Awkward Woman + Awkward Woman's Assistant = Revina Won't Monica just end up switching sides and joining with Richard and Bachmann...? Seems that's the only logical way to keep the show moving forward. Or Gavin Belson offers Reviga even more money than they just paid Delorean Wing Door Guy to get 60% control...but then he has to to work with Richard again?

QUOTE (Chilihead90 @ Jun 14, 2015 -> 11:29 PM) On The Score today one of the hosts mentioned a Sale trade and said he'd be okay with a package from Houston centered around Correa. Using that basis.... I'd give up Sale for SS Carlos Correa, RHP Michael Feliz, OF Brett Phillips, and 2B Tony Kemp. Houston has a loaded system. They are one of the few teams that could do it without blowing out their farm system. I think they'd TRY to do it without giving up Correa, unfortunately. Then the whole trade would be left at a stalemate. Of course, they're also injecting another infielder in Bregman, Kyle Tucker, POSSIBLY Cameron's son (Top 5-10 talent) and the pitcher who beat Fulmer last night with Cal State Fullerton. Unless they change the rules where those prospects can be traded before June, 2016, it's going to be difficult to make a trade with the Astros.

http://www.milb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=2...ap&sid=t247 Montas still has some "baby/Viciedo" fat to get rid of...but he looks like a monster out there.

Despite a cash infusion of more than $70 million this offseason, the White Sox are on pace to score 587 runs. The 2013 club, which lost 99 games, scored 598. The offense has produced three or fewer runs 31 times in 61 games and the club is 5-26 in those games. “Sooner or later it’s got to change,” Parent said. “We’ve got to start getting some hits. We’ve got to start chasing each other around the bases. That’s what people are doing to us. We need to do it to them.” www.csnchicago.com

QUOTE (Jose Abreu @ Jun 14, 2015 -> 10:26 PM) Not me. I know Joc is doing well in the majors, but I wouldn't consider any of them "sure thing" prospects... in my opinion, Bryant is/was the only sure thing prospect this year. Anyway, I wouldn't trade a star in Sale for unproven prospects because you never know what can happen to the prospects, while you do know what you're going to get from Sale (and he's doing it on a very team-friendly contract, thus making him more valuable). Then the closest "others" are probably Buxton, Gallo and Lindor-level players. Something like Buxton, Sano and Berrios. That would be the equivalent of the Dodgers' trade, maybe a tick better if Buxton lives us to his topline potential and can stay healthy. Another problem is we're stuck with Cabrera...that removes a lot of our flexibility. In that scenario, I'd probably move Avi to DH/1B and dump LaRoche. Then Lillian would be able to return to the never-ending search for "platoon proof" LH hitting.

QUOTE (greg775 @ Jun 14, 2015 -> 10:22 PM) Well, I believe Colon is a natural hitter. My desire to trade everybody the Sox acquired is do-over mode. I feel like this time Hahn might really get some good young Kris Bryant-like talent for the guys I mentioned. Notice I still want the rotation of Sale, Q, Rodon, Danks which is still the foundation. Give Hahn a chance to try again by dealing the guys I mentioned and Sox might be in business. Hahn is not a dummy. Give him another chance and he succeeds IMO! He has the pieces (big names) to work with. John Danks has been terrible 4 of his last 5 starts. He's done, a sunk cost that we probably won't offload until the trade deadline next season. Building around him, you might as well expect 1984-1987 White Sox crowd support. Natural hitter? Colon? He's a nice little utility player with decent (but not great) who makes very good contact but not with much pop. Think Eduardo Escobar, more than All-Star caliber. Christian's a 729 OPS hitter in 5 minor league seasons (in two AA seasons he was at 699). He's the final (fourth or fifth) element of a much bigger trade, like the Royals made for Escobar and Cain. Notice the amount of control the acquiring team would have with Sale, versus the contractual status of Greinke at the time of that trade. At a very minimum, you need to get two position players of that level and another starting pitcher back. Then Colon...if you believe he has the ability to be an everyday SS.

QUOTE (BlackSox13 @ Jun 14, 2015 -> 08:26 PM) Unfortunately I was one of those converts last winter. I went into the off season expecting another rebuild year and drafting more talent but in the end I bought into the idea of FA and hoping that would enough to keep the Sox in contentention. Sadly, FA has not paid off so far. In the end I think the Sox have little choice but to pull some kind of rabbit out of their hat and likely will be a name people will not want to see go. And that's baseball. I was going to comment on the Q thread but didn't want to derail it with Sale. Call me crazy but if the point is maximum return, you trade Sale and keep Q. Q can pass for a #1 in 2016 with Rodon #2. It's quite possible that Montas, Danish and Fulmer need the 2016 season for their development to have them ready for 2017. If it's a 2016 rebuild season there would be no rush for those three at all, just keep them healthy and building up those innings in the minors, hopefully Charlotte. I still prefer to keep Sale, Q and Rodon intact but I admit some talent might have to be traded to fill some holes at 3B, C, SS? 2B?. I think I'd rather trade Abreu than Sale to be honest. And who's going to pay you for 2014 Abreu, one of the top 3-5 hitters in baseball? Unless you have a reason to believe he's going to be "this version" permanently, it's better to deal Quintana (or Sale). Sure, you can move LaRoche to 1B next season and the maybe Avi or Cabrera to DH, but the problem is the extremely limited number of teams looking for a first baseman/DH right now (and they're going to be mostly AL teams, because of his defense). Compare that to the sheer number of teams looking for pitching. For example, the Tigers could definitely use a DH if Victor Martinez isn't expected to return to form and they don't care about eating another bad contract for the following two seasons...but they don't have the talent in their system to trade, even if there was a match, and I don't think many would like the idea of Abreu being paired with Miguel Cabrera for the immediate future. Essentially, then, other teams will value him as "Mark Trumbo +" whereas his intrinsic White Sox value is much higher, because he's far and away the most important hitter for the future of our offense because of his potential ability to put up MVP numbers. How are they going to easily replace those stats? It's not like 2007/2008 and there are a bunch of Carlos Quentin's or undervalued Cubans lying around to be plucked.