caulfield12

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ May 29, 2013 -> 10:02 AM) There are other teams out there that would love to have Alexei. The Yankees and Red Sox would be good starting points. Does trading Alexei Ramirez to the Yankees get you back Gary Sanchez, Mason Williams, Tyler Austin, Slade Heathcott, Mark Montgomery or Ramon Flores? Secondly, other than Austin Jackson, when's the last time a Yankees' prospect made a big impact?

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ May 29, 2013 -> 09:59 AM) Why is trading Santiago or Johnson a big risk, but trading a former Cy Young award winner who is healthy again, and has been performing tremendously, not? Seems to me trading guys who actually have shown they are great major league players is far more a risk than trading maybes. I understand I am on Soxtalk and Santiago is a guy who is going to win 5 or 6 Cy Youngs if he is just handled properly and Johnson is can't miss, but success in the minor leagues does not equal success in the majors. Go to baseball reference and check out Rod Bolton. First, look at his minor league stats prior to his White Sox call up, and tell me how much Soxtalk would be raving. The Sox wouldn't have needed Black Jack. Then look what happened when he got his shot. I hope Johnson and Santiago pan out, and are at least 25% as great as some around here think they are, but until it really happens, Peavy is the safer choice. And if Eduardo Escobar was the Sox starting 3B, you still would be arguing the same things about him. If you play a bunch of rookies, chances are, you aren't going to win. Not everyone is Mike Trout. Rodney Bolton? Seriously? I remember following the team religiously at that time, and never once thinking he was going to amount to something. It's not like we're talking Wilson Alvarez, Bere, Alex Fernandez here...(or Daniel Hudson, or Gio Gonzalez, etc.) Yes, you would think Peavy is the safer choice, but once again, the calculation is how much value are we losing in trade return if he goes through another 2nd half like 2012? Sure, he could completely change the trend and beat the Tigers 3-4-5 times head-to-head and lead the White Sox to the playoffs, anything is POSSIBLE. To me, the biggest concern isn't so much with his age as his health, taking on the workload he was burdened with by Ventura/Cooper last season. Verducci Effect, etc. And going through the next 26 games, it's likely that Peavy will STILL look more like a Cy Young Award winner (albeit at 90-92/93 MPH) than the 2nd half 2012 version, which means his trade value would never, ever be any higher. Back to the oft-recurring McCann/Morales/Granderson/Utley scenario. If you can guarantee we bring at least two of those guys into the fold for 2014...then standing pat with Peavy and waiting out the trade market is the better scenario. If, on the other hand, you're left with the Jeff Keppingers, Tyler Flowers and Conor Gillaspies as your biggest moves....and yes, we all realize who's coming off the books contract-wise and the $25 million incoming, keeping Peavy makes less and less sense.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ May 29, 2013 -> 09:45 AM) Look at what Toronto did this winter, I could believe it. But isn't the flip side (from the Marlins/Dodgers' records so far) a rising concern and fear that building teams by adding expensive veteran pieces... going to have more than its fair share of detractors as a philosophy going forward? Those two teams have to be in GM/manager firing modes, not to mention the Angels and Royals. Or look at the Shields for Myers/Odorizzi move. Trying to add that one player to put you over the top when your team is still at least one or two years away can be a career-killer. Just can't believe that someone's going to keep giving up their top young position prospects, when all is said and done. And yes, one realizes you just need ONE team to bite, one Arte Moreno or Illitch who "wants to go for it all," but it just doesn't seem like the type of move the St. Louis Cardinals or really smart organizations (Giants, for example) would make.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ May 29, 2013 -> 09:43 AM) What is the fascination posters have with downgrading the SS position? How does dumping Ramirez for zilch like Marty suggests or getting Hechavarria make the White Sox better now or in the long run? If you can get a consensus Top 50 raw prospect back like Hechavarria for Alexei Ramirez, and the White Sox are 8-9-10 games back on July 15, I don't think any GM in the game wouldn't at least consider it. Otherwise, I would agree that it's better to stand pat at that position and play it out longer with Peavy/Rios...or until Carlos Sanchez has become a legitimate replacement (or not) at 2B/SS. Finally, Gordon Beckham needs the next 2-3 months to show what he can do, too, so they can make a final determination on him.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ May 29, 2013 -> 09:31 AM) If the Sox aren't that far away, why trade guys like Peavy and Rios for prospects who are farther away, if they even get there at all? Even Marty said the rotation is shaping up. How long do rotations stay together? The time to try to win is while Sale's elbow and shoulder are intact. Then what players have "Youkilis-esque" contracts that are that unique combination of 1/2 year commitments, where the veteran player is blocking a youngster and/or that veteran is having a hard time with his current manager and it's best for the team to part ways....almost, to give him away to kill 2 birds with one stone? Because I haven't seen anyone on here advocate trading, let's say, Erik Johnson, to fix the three biggest problems for the current team, which are catcher, Dunn/Konerko/offense from the middle of the line-up, and the bullpen (and that's assuming there's a "smooth" transition to Gordon at 2B and he doesn't hit in the high 500's OPS-wise coming back from that wrist problem) Other than taking on salary, or making Liriano trades that don't affect the core (Escobar/Pedro Hernandez...which would be trading Axelrod, and even many consider him more valuable to the Sox than as someone who could fetch a trade return)...how do you intend to do that? It seems the only way would be to trade either Johnson or Santiago. Are you willing to take that risk? If you look at it from another perspective, we "went for it" last year at mid-season and still came up short. We didn't have a player (Escobar) who could have entered 2013 as the starting 3B, so we he had to overpay on Keppinger...which isn't a HUGE contract, but it was brought about, once again, because of lack of minor league depth. (And, no, we can't say that ANYONE would have predicted Gillaspie could be the starter against both LHP and RHP before the season). Are we honestly going to be closer to getting to the playoffs this year than last year? How can you make that case, if we're 5 games back, let's say, rather than 3-5 games ahead?

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ May 29, 2013 -> 07:52 AM) Ramirez has a very team friendly contract at this point in time. $7 mill this year, $9 mill next year, $10 mill in '15, $10 mill team option or a $1 mill buy out in 2016. He still has a ton of value, and if the Sox think that they will need to tear the team apart, he is going to be one of the most valuable trade pieces they have. They wouldn't "unload" that contract because there would be a ton of teams lining up to trade for him. I strongly doubt they will tear the team apart, and I don't foresee Alexei playing elsewhere any time soon. Let's say Reyes to the Blue Jays didn't materialize...you really believe they would have taken Alexei's contract obligations on and given us, let's say, Hechavarria straight up for him? Just looking at his year over year declining OPS numbers (especially homers and XB hits), his age...his high error totals this year (part of that's on Ventura and by association, Hahn, for not being able to rest him), I just don't see that as being a sure thing that he's going to fetch a consensus Top 50 player back. Cardinals, same thing...do you believe we could actually get Carpenter/Adams, etc., or would we be speculating on minor league pieces (and not one of their top cadre of minor league pitchers)?

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseb...0,1915154.story Jones not going down to the minors anytime soon. Cooper has a HUGE face in that video, haha. A bit scary.

Moore said a demotion to AAA Omaha is not in the offing for Moustakas (although for our purposes, it might as well be Tyler Flowers). For now, anyway. “There are three basic processes that I challenge myself with when sending a player down,” Moore said. “Is this struggling player staying positive and working hard? Does the coaching staff remain positive in this struggling player? And do his teammates continue to rally around this struggling player? “As long as those three things are occurring, it’s very difficult as a general manager to make a change. You’ve got to trust the people that you’ve hired to help this player get through it. “But no doubt — there comes a point in time if a player continues to struggle and we think we need a mental break and one of those processes breaks down that you have to evaluate it. And then you want to next look at what’s the alternative.” Read more here: http://www.kansascity.com/2013/05/28/42612...l#storylink=cpy

QUOTE (danman31 @ May 28, 2013 -> 10:44 PM) Age appropriate K/9 above 9 at AA while maintaining a decent walk rate. Why isn't he still starting this season? Numbers game? Because he's perceived to be behind Thompson, Snodgress and Beck? What is his repertoire? Maybe relieving is a faster path to the big leagues in his case, with a logjam in Chicago/AAA, but that's usually not the prime consideration when positioning a player as a reliever or starter in the lower minors.

QUOTE (danman31 @ May 28, 2013 -> 09:35 PM) Griffith was a second round pick that had Tommy John. He had big upside once upon a time. My list: Webb Petricka Vance Salvador Sanchez (seriously 18 K against 0 BB) Don't care after that Why Vance? Know he was a starter last season, and pretty sure he's from UConn. What would make him a standout reliever?

http://www.thebaseballcube.com/players/pro...?P=Jason-Grilli Ironic that he got caught up in a numbers game with the Sox (with the additions of Contreras and Garcia) and ended up with the Tigers in 2005/06/07/08. Amazing that a guy coming into the season at age 36 with 5 career saves is now 21/21. Story of the year...along with the Dodgers, Angels and Blue Jays not exactly buying their way into the playoffs quite yet.

Grilli is just dominating with that slider. Wiped out Cabrera and Hunter with that pitch. Still throwing 93-94-95 MPH with the heater at age 36. FWIW, Don Cooper really helped Grilli out a lot, too. He just wasn't destined to make it as a starter from the time he was drafted by the SF Giants. Struck out the side....got Fielder on a ball out of the zone. Wow. Sox still only 2 behind the Indians, 4 1/2 behind DET. Got lucky tonight with the rain-out.

In the end, if Illitch can win a World Series, he'll inevitably argue all those contracts (Verlander and Fielder, in particular) were worth it.

QUOTE (Noonskadoodle @ May 28, 2013 -> 09:02 PM) That entire bullpen has been money. I believe they are towards the top in MLB.....seem to be really overachieving when going through the names in the pen. We actually brought Jason Grilli back from the dead about a decade ago when he was a busted prospect. Can't believe he's STILL around. Shows you everything you need to know about bullpens...like Cotts/Politte in 2005, or Veal's success last year. You're always going to need a little luck. And Melancon's a former closer. Neil Walker homer in top of the 11th reminiscent of Geoff Blum in Game 3 of the 2005 World Series...kind of came out of nowhere. 1-0 Pirates. Grilli 20/20 in converting save opportunities 1/3rd of the way through the season. That's almost unbelievable.

This Wilson kid pitching for the Pirates (against the Tiggers) out of the pen now is quite impressive. He just threw a 93 MPH slider/cutter. He's Matt Thornton in his prime, easy motion...failed starter, very similar. 0-0 going to the 10th inning. Pirates' starter was former Indian Jeanmar Gomez.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ May 28, 2013 -> 08:23 PM) Which is the biggest reason no one should be freaking out about him now. If he didn't have enough to make this organizations top 25 list before this season (and we all know how easy that was), there really isn't anything he could have changed in two months that would have turned him into a starting MLB caliber catcher, short of meeting Barry Bonds trainer. He does have two arguments in his favor. Relatively high draft pick, and the freakish illness...that sidelined him early in his career. And 25 isn't too old for a catcher who was drafted from university, it's probably more or less the average (24-26). With the illnesses and injuries, just like Jared Mitchell, it would take a LOT for fans to have much faith in those guys again. So Phegley really has had to overcome a ton of skepticism to get back to "prospect" (not suspect) status.

Have they announced if they're going to stay with their normal rotation order or move Sale up a day or two to rest another starter?

QUOTE (fathom @ May 28, 2013 -> 08:17 PM) Basically, this game never happened. Someone correct me if I'm wrong. Only if they got past 5 1/2 innings and it was tied or an official game...this game is GONE.

QUOTE (VAfan @ May 28, 2013 -> 07:18 PM) The point I would make about Dunn is that his power production is just as useful at the bottom of the lineup, because HRs by necessity score runs. But his strike outs just kill any chance of putting together innings where you get a couple of hits, perhaps steal a base, and drive runs in that way. Dunn is next to useless in that capacity, esp. since his walk rate is down. Give me Rios, Viciedo and Gillaspie back to back to back and you've got a chance to score. But what Ventura has done has isolated Rios from anyone behind him who can actually move him over or in with something less than a HR. I would generally agree, however, with the sentiment that the Sox aren't going to be able to compete with Dunn and Konerko not hitting like valuable 4-5 guys. Still, that doesn't excuse the person I blame most in this post -- Robin Ventura. If you think about it, Konerko certainly has no future with the Sox, and once his contract is over, neither does Dunn. So why not move Viciedo and Gillaspie into bigger roles, since they likely have a future with the team that goes beyond this season? As I said, he's playing names, not the players he has before him in 2013. And THAT's BAD MANAGEMENT. It's bad enough, that if he did it all season, I think I'd start looking for someone else to take the helm. We had the same debate in 2011 when you could argue that Lillibridge or Viciedo could take AB's from Dunn...where the season felt lost and yet Ozzie kept trotting him out there. The difference back then was the 3 1/2 years left on his contract, vs. 1 1/2 seasons now. At some point, it's just a sunk cost and loss and you move on without worrying about protecting him, his feelings, his being a veteran or trying to build up ANY kind of trade value to get something back in return. And yes, right now, Rios/Viciedo/Gillaspie are the three most consistently dangerous hitters in the line-up. In fact, I remember Greg775 starting lots of conversations defending Ozzie (and Rongey) for leaving Dunn in the middle of line-up no matter what your eyes were telling you (which is that he was completely lost for the season).

QUOTE (Marty34 @ May 28, 2013 -> 07:22 PM) It's really not. That's what's so bizarre. What do you think is the likely outcome of having 19 of the final 76 games versus the Tigers. Think the pitching staff won't be stressed beyond its limits? When that happens all hell is going to break loose. Not really. Apathy will set in. People will stop caring or switch their interest to the football season. If you can't get fans excited about Cubs/Sox this year, I find it hard to imagine a fan uprising about the pitching staff going south in the 2nd half when everyone expects it based on the workload from 2012 anyway.

QUOTE (Marty34 @ May 28, 2013 -> 07:55 PM) Can I have the players ages? Well, Robin Ventura was probably the most famous collegiate player selected in that draft...because of Oklahoma State's program, exposure from the College World Series, his long long hitting streak, high first rounder, etc. It's hard to compare him to Phegley, who I'm sure about 85-90% of the White Sox fan-base doesn't even know exists yet unless they're paying close attention to Harrelson when he talks about the minor league results.

I guess Molina being injury-prone is karma for Sirotka and Santos. Almost wouldn't be fair if he went on to become a stud for the Sox.

One thing that's not encouraging tonight. If Porcello finally gets it together (shut out in the late innings with 10 K's against a good Pirates team), then you can forget chasing down the Tigers in the 2nd half. And the Royals have to be THIS close to firing Ned Yost...down to the Cardinals again. 2 more at StL, then going to the weekend to face the Rangers. Perfect storm.

I would guess, if they do finish it, this would be the least well-attended game in Sox/Cubs history since 1997...

QUOTE (fathom @ May 28, 2013 -> 05:42 PM) Phegley doubles in his first AB Stop stirring things up, haha. I bet he and his family would enjoy reading through all the threads at SoxTalk today.