caulfield12

QUOTE (Marty34 @ Jul 17, 2012 -> 10:24 AM) Their TV contract is up after this season if I'm not mistaken. So you think the opportunity to win a World Series is not worth giving up Viciiedo from a financial standpoint? And they don't have an opportunity now? The Cardinals in 2006 and 2011 would disagree. So 10-11 starts out of Greinke, that doesn't even mean we'll go 10-1. Look at Jake Peavy's results vs. offensive performances in those games. Let's say he somehow goes 8-3 (or the team's record is that), who's to say Danks couldn't do the same thing? Young, cost-controlled position players are worth a lot more to a team than a starting pitcher rental for 40% of the season. I think you mentioned it was easy to find a LF who would put up a 727 OPS, which is the big league average for that position. So who is this player who's so easily obtainable right now or available as a FA? Oh, that's right. Juan Pierre. Surely that combo of DeAza and Pierre at the top of the line-up is going to guarantee us 2-3 World Series championships.

Because the Rangers went from bankruptcy to a cash machine in less than 3 years (50% because of the new t.v. contract, 50% because of 2 consecutive World Series appearances)...the White Sox should now trade for Greinke, sign Josh Hamilton in the offseason as well as retain the services of Peavy and Youkilis. Why not? It's not Marty's money.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jul 17, 2012 -> 09:14 AM) For his career, Pierre has a .712 OPS against RHP, .654 over the last three years. No, no, no. Just cherry pick the statistics from this year and completely ignore a full body of evidence just to be a contrarian. If that doesn't convince (which it won't), complain about Molina and Morel. Ooops, can't really go there because then you'd have to admit it would be better to take back $7.25 million in guaranteed salary for a guy with a bad wing who relies almost completely on a power arsenal. GEE, WHY DIDN'T WE GET THE !996 ANDRUW JONES??? STUPID KW. WHAT AN IDIOT.

Shouldn't we be benching Adam Dunn for Andruw Jones (or let's just trade him for Chavez and Andruw)...then, we can give them DeAza for Jayson Nix and some random bench player, because their splits are probably better than DeAza's against LHP. Then we should trade AJ because he also doesn't hit LHP very well.

QUOTE (Marty34 @ Jul 17, 2012 -> 09:51 AM) Why would that be a joke? Pierre hits right-handers better than Viciedo. So do Robin Ventura and Frank Thomas. Maybe we should bring them out of retirement? Because Pierre's basically at that point. Better yet, I bet Andruw Jones is hitting better against LHP, and Eric Chavez against RHP. Maybe we should just give the Yankees Dunn and take back Andruw and Chavez. That's the Marty34 plan.

Pedro Hernandez slated for Wednesday, Quintana Thursday....or vice-versa. All indications though, including speculation from Mark Gonzales, point to Rookie pitcher #9. Or #10, if you include Deunte Heath, who was on the roster but never pitched.

No, this is just DUMB, DUMB, DUMB. Sometimes...it just makes you wonder.

Time for Lillian to appear again quoting Dan Johnson's AAA statistical line.

I wonder if there's another team in baseball in either first place or right in the middle of the wild card hunt whose fans are more concerned with the lack of minor league depth than where their favorite major league team is in the standings currently? Seems some people are losing their perspective here. Maybe we should go back to the time of the Cabrera for Maybin/Miller deal and rue that we didn't have the pieces to acquire Miguel then. What good will it do? James Shields isn’t the only member of the Tampa Bay pitching staff who could be traded this summer. The Rays are open to moving any of their right-handed starters, Ken Rosenthal of FOX Sports reports. Right-handers Jeremy Hellickson, Wade Davis, Alex Cobb and Chris Archer would all appeal to teams in need of pitching. Here are more of Rosenthal’s notes from around MLB... •The Rays probably won’t sell if it appears Evan Longoria will be able to return before long, but the third baseman’s timeline remains unclear. •It’s highly unlikely that the Athletics will trade Bartolo Colon, Rosenthal reports. The A’s value Colon more than the mid-level prospects they’d be able to acquire for him in a trade. •Executives say the Angels have enough young talent to trade for a pitcher of Zack Greinke’s caliber. Though GM Jerry Dipoto is reluctant to trade Peter Bourjos and Garrett Richards, both would appeal to other teams. One executive noted that prospects Jean Segura and Kaleb Cowart are also appealing trade chips. •The Angels are looking for a left-handed reliever, Rosenthal reports. (Let's trade them Santiago since we didn't have a clue how to use him). •The Cubs are exchanging names with teams interested in Ryan Dempster. The Dodgers, Tigers, Braves and Red Sox are in the mix. A friend of Dempster’s said the right-hander would probably approve a trade to Boston but considers the Dodgers a better fit. The Dodgers have enough prospects to build a package for Dempster, rival executives tell Rosenthal. •The Red Sox are still interested in Matt Garza, another potential trade chip. •The prospect-rich Blue Jays are interested in Justin Upton. GM Alex Anthopoulos is pursuing numerous players and willing to listen on all of his own players, Rosenthal writes. The Pirates have shown considerable interest in Upton, but the Diamondbacks don’t view Pittsburgh as a fit. •The Rangers are almost certain to bolster their bench. One option: upgrade over catcher Yorvit Torrealba. •It’s not surprising to see the Giants pursuing relief help, Rosenthal writes.

Mitchell and Castro aren't there now. Talent-wise or potential, maybe. If Mitchell was consistent and actually was around .300 still instead of slumping into the .240's, sure. (KWJR and Saladino are now hitting higher.) He just hasn't been consistent, which is probably the biggest criticism you can make of Dayan's 2012 season. If we're going by potential, then Hawkins, Barnum and Beck would be there. Maybe even Trayce Thompson. And Hawkins definitely will be on the Top 100 list coming into 2013. It's almost automatic for a pick in the first half of the first round to be included. That said, some people are being insanely unrealistic. They want Viciedo to be Harper or Trout, or Miguel Cabrera. Those players are once a decade type talents that don't come around very frequently. Every team except the Yankees and Angels missed on Trout, it's not just the White Sox.

Left-hander Pedro Hernandez, who is 7-2 with a 2.90 ERA at Double-A Birmingham and Triple-A Charlotte, is in line to be promoted to start Wednesday. Left-hander Jose Quintana will stay in his normal spot and pitch Thursday's series finale, with Jake Peavy and Chris Sale opening the Tigers series against Justin Verlander and Rick Porcello. The Sox are undecided about Sunday's starter, while the Tigers will start Jacob Turner if left-hander Drew Smyly doesn't come off the DL. 'Giddy' Danks: John Danks expressed elation over throwing 90 feet for the first time since July 3. "I'm giddy right now, and it's still sore," said Danks, who hasn't pitched since June 12 in a minor league rehabilitation start because of a left shoulder strain. "Just to go out there and throw and feel like we are making progress again, it's definitely huge. "I needed something positive to happen. It was getting kind of tough there for a little bit. I don't know how much longer we have, but for sure we are moving in the right direction." Mark Gonzales/www.chicagotribune.com/sports Looks like it's Hernandez/Quintana on WED and THUR

QUOTE (iamshack @ Jul 16, 2012 -> 10:19 PM) If he's truly hurt. I don't believe he is; at least I don't believe it is any injury that a short DL stint is going to fix. Hawk is pretty close to the players, especially PK, and he hasn't said a thing about him being injured. Just has continued to say "he is close," and clearly cheerleading for him to get back to being himself. If he was injured, I think we'd be hearing Hawk make more injury excuses for him. PK puts a lot of pressure on himself. He is obviously struggling a bit mentally. He is pouting more than I have ever seen him; more than in 2003 even. He isn't running out of the box. Move him down to a lower-leverage position in the order, let him get his head right, and get back on track. We're going to need him down the stretch. http://www.southsidesox.com/2012/7/16/3161...-konerkos-slump

White Flagging it would be suicidal. We've come this far, let's see it through. Not going to touch the Danks comments. Floyd is on the DL or will be and can't be traded. So that leaves you trading who: AJ? Crain (who's on the DL)? Thornton? Rios? Dunn? Peavy? Konerko, who has a lingering hand injury and whose production has nosedived? Trade Youkilis to yet another team? A White Flag trade makes absolutely ZERO sense. I guess we could try to dump as much of Dunn's, Rios' and Peavy's salaries, but then what? Turn around and spend on more free agents, buying high inevitably? No thanks.

QUOTE (flavum @ Jul 16, 2012 -> 08:28 PM) Guess who is moving into the 2nd wildcard spot after tonight? Probably the Tigers.

Luis Silverio then, lol.

QUOTE (Marty34 @ Jul 16, 2012 -> 10:38 PM) Come on now Fathom, you don't want to pay a guy and you don't want a rental. Relying on Humber and Danks is the riskiest of all moves, imo. So was dealing Quentin, Santos, Frasor and letting Buehrle walk. Turning the bullpen over to completely inexperienced rookies with the exceptions of Crain, Thornton and Ohman. Giving lots of starts to Quintana, Axelrod and even Eric Stults this year.

QUOTE (Elgin Slim @ Jul 16, 2012 -> 10:36 PM) Before the Sox go and mortgage the future on Grienke or Hamels, they should see where they are at in 7-10 days, and whether or not Detroit gets Dempster or Garza or maybe even one of the two aces on the market, as well as where they are in the standings. IF on 7/26/12 they have fallen out of first place and are greater than 2 GB of Detroit, or maybe even in third place, they should sell instead of buy. As a matter of fact, looking at the schedule, they probably shouldn't make a move until 7/29, after which two games with Texas have been played. With Detroit on a hot streak, and per Rongey Floyd likely going on the DL, not having more than 2 or 3 reliable bullpen guys and 3/5 of the opening day rotation hurt or lousy or both, the Sox may be better suited selling than buying. I wouldn't count on either Danks or Floyd the rest of the season given their injuries, and with the young guys in the bullpen getting hit hard recently(Reed included) it might be tough to hold on to first by the end of the month. IF Danks and Floyd were healthy and pitching to their 3 yr averages, then I'd think differently but right now quite frankly I think the pitching outside of Sale and Peavy blows. You might get good performances from these guys once in a while, (like Axelrod's tonight) but those may be few and far between. I am of the opinion to wait at least 7 days to do anything. The Sox are in the toughest part of their schedule right now, and it could be the difference between buying or selling. I may change my tune by next Monday given the play of the team. In order for that to happen they would have to take 2 out of the remaining 3 in Boston and at least 2 of 3 in Detroit. Right now I think there is a possibility that they could be swept by both teams. And I didn't even mention that they are not scoring runs right now. They need to go 3-3 or no worse than 2-4 the next 6. But there's no doubt that DET is the hottest team in baseball for the time being and have much more talent offensively than us. Largely because Miguel Cabrera is quite simply the best run producer and arguably best hitter in baseball (some will argue Hamilton or Votto). If Young, Berry and Boesch are all going to start hitting, watch out. That said...Fister's health has been shaky, Porcello and Scherzer maddeningly inconsistent, Smyly hurt.....hit and miss bullpen, but they do have the advantage with Coke, Dotel, Benoit and Valverde over our rookies. The lack of production from some of their studs last year (Peralta and Avila) is largely being offset by Berry and Austin Jackson sparking the top of the line-up at the same time DeAza's fallen off a cliff. We need to beat Jacob Turner SAT because it's going to be super tough to take out Verlander FRI in front of a packed house....and missing "Tiger Killer" Floyd, too.

QUOTE (Marty34 @ Jul 16, 2012 -> 10:32 PM) start with Viciedo and Castro. Since these team's are shying away I'd expect the offers aren't pouring in. The Brewers need a hitter at first base, no? Why do you always want to trade away predominantly the Hispanic players on our team or in our organization? Just curious. Used to be Ramirez over and over, now it's Viciedo.

http://mlb.sbnation.com/2012/7/16/3163014/...ty-trade-rumors This article actually argues NOBODY knows what the hell's in Greinke's mind, but teams are being wary. Another warning sign is the decrease in velocity and WED start pushed back because of his 3 consecutive starts bookended around the ASB. It was around that time that Greinke also conducted one hell of a strange interview that sadly seems to have been pulled from the web. There was crying about Jennifer Aniston and sharing home and garden magazines and everything. In the long history of athlete interviews, that's one that's always stuck with me. It was clear that Greinke was different, but starting around then, he developed the reputation of being weird. Which was fine, because he did seem weird, relative to other players. But the thing about weird people is that they're tough to figure out, tough to put into boxes. That's what makes them weird. People have understood Greinke to be weirder than most, but they've taken that to make assumptions that they don't know enough to make. The most prevalent example is that Greinke wouldn't want to pitch in a big market, and indeed that he couldn't handle it. There would be too many people, too much attention, too much pressure for a guy of Greinke's personality and mental health. If a pitcher is socially anxious in Kansas City, how could he possibly deal with New York or Boston? Of course, about that: "I wouldn’t put it past him to go to New York," the source said. "I don’t think he’d rule out anybody. He says he likes New York. Especially because they’re winners. He wants to go to a team that wins." (source) "There's more people to ignore in New York or Boston than there are in Milwaukee," he said, "but I would still ignore them, probably." (source) More generally, it seems a lot of people act like they know what's best for Zack Greinke, and what he might like and dislike. People know Zack Greinke as being weird, and then they put him in a weird box and expect him to do things they think weird people would do. Greinke doesn't fit the usual profile, so people have given him a different profile that's equally restrictive and under-informed. Probably more under-informed.

QUOTE (Marty34 @ Jul 16, 2012 -> 09:07 PM) I think you are dead wrong. I lived in Kansas City from 1996-2005, and 2006-2007. I saw the Greinke nightmare close up and personal. If you're the kind of GM who is going to offer $150 million to Josh Hamilton, then by all means, offer $120 to Greinke. But it's an insanely high risk tolerance you have playing with someone else's money. I’ve been saying all along that, on paper, Greinke seems like the kind of player and person that might just be willing to stay in Kansas City for the long term. He is, obviously, a unique person. He may have learned to live with his social anxiety disorder, but it is still a part of who he is, and it’s unlikely that the seductive charms of New York or LA or Boston would appeal to him as much as they do so many other ballplayers. As Greinke said, “Kansas City is actually a great town for me. It’s pretty small, but it’s big, too.” Kansas City isn’t big enough for a lot of players; it’s big enough for Greinke. His personality would suggest that he would be happy to trade a little fame and fortune to stay in a comfortable and familiar environment for the rest of his career, and in Kansas City he has that: an organization that has nurtured him since high school, a friendly and small local media contingent, an adoring fan base. On paper, I thought Greinke was a candidate not to just sign a long-term deal with the Royals, but if all went well, to sign several of them. Until yesterday, that was all a theory. I thought Greinke would be comfortable playing in a medium-sized city where he can have all the anonymity he wants, that he didn’t have a case of wanderlust, that he appreciated how the Royals stood with him in his darkest hours. I thought all that, but I didn’t know. Now I know, and that’s what makes this contract particularly sweet. At the risk of coming off as a naïve and sentimental sap, I believe (and have been told this by other sources) what Sam Mellinger said in his column: that this deal got done at least in part because Greinke saw the way that he was received by Royals fans on the caravan, and the way that David Glass treated him in a heart-to-heart, and decided that maybe the grass under his feet was green enough. My inner fan says that between the Royals Caravan and the FanFest, Greinke felt the love from Royals fans, and decided to reciprocate. (My inner analyst was about to respond, but my inner fan decked him before he could talk, then stomped on his glasses and pocket protector for good measure.) ranyontheroyals.com

Quintana's value isn't that high, though. He's currently seen by every team in baseball as a 5th starter or bullpen arm. Nobody's going to give up a frontline starter for him...you'll be lucky to get a Kevin Millwood or Jose Vargas.

QUOTE (Marty34 @ Jul 16, 2012 -> 10:04 PM) Are you sure Hamels has the desire to pitch in Chicago during a pennant race? Much more than Greinke, yes.

QUOTE (Carter224 @ Jul 16, 2012 -> 10:01 PM) You will never know unless you find out, and I think ide rather take a shot at Greinke than do nothing and watch Dylan Axelrod do nothing for this team the rest of the way.. I dont think many fans are going to boo the franchise for trying to win another championship.. And 2014-2015-2016? You dont know who we will have or who comes out of nowhere for this team by then.. you cant always just think about the future, because in the present right now our 1st place lead is getting close to being history. Ill take winning now please. If there's a reasonable belief that you can get John Danks back in the first half of August, then I think you have to hold off making a huge deal for a pitcher. We might end up giving up 1st place at some point to the Tigers, but after this next 3-4 weeks, the overall schedule definitely turns in our favor in terms of competition and home vs. away games down the stretch.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Jul 16, 2012 -> 09:56 PM) I'd probably just dump Gavin...if I had the money to spend, I'd try and get Jake to stay for 2/$20, which he would most likely laugh at, but I'm not willing to offer him another huge contract after what we've gone through with him. That's really $24 million for 2 years, because you're giving him the buyout. Are we sure we want to turn around and give Peavy that kind of money? I guess $12 million for Peavy (average, like AJ's deal, assuming they could backload the 2nd year of the contract), wouldn't be the WORST thing in the world, but it's not a huge bargain necessarily.

QUOTE (Marty34 @ Jul 16, 2012 -> 09:53 PM) When the future of the franchise is Viciedo, Jones, Mitchell, it's ok to mortgage it. So let me get this straight. You want to trade for someone who we're not even sure has desire right now to pitch in a pennant race or in a city or media market like Chicago? You're just going to force him to pitch for the White Sox? Then you're going to not only trade away our future and give the guy $100-110 million? Have you lost your mind? When this whole thing blows up, are you going to blame KW? Please repeat after me...at this moment, I, Marty34, will never hold KW responsible for any Zack Greinke trade going completely awry and setting the franchise back for half a decade. I, Marty34, realize that when there's nobody hitting homers for the White Sox in 2014-15-16, I will have myself to blame for the completely punchless offense.