caulfield12

QUOTE (greg775 @ Jun 18, 2012 -> 01:43 PM) I guarantee you KC is going to finish ahead of the still dysfunctional Sox. Sweeping the Cubs would right the ship, but Zach in Game One? Ouch. Greg, haven't we been hearing this same prediction for about 3 or 4 years now? Seriously, who is the rotation for the Royals right now? I bet most Royals fans couldn't name more than a couple of guys. When you guarantee the Royals are going to finish ahead of the White Sox, that's what makes everyone believe you're really more of a fan of other teams. If you really believe we're going to be THAT bad, why even bother to follow the White Sox? I would say it's possible we finish behind them, but I wouldn't bet any money on it happening, either. If you're going to guarantee something like that, you should have to lose something if you're wrong...like you have to admit that Tony Pena or Buddy Bell or Trey Hillman could managed the 2005 White Sox to the World Series title.

QUOTE (greg775 @ Jun 18, 2012 -> 01:41 PM) Another great post, but we've lost 12 of 16 which is very very s***ty baseball. Sox are in trouble. If we had gone 4-12, we'd be at .500. In actuality, we went 17-5 to get to 8 games over .500 and have now lost 8 of 12.

QUOTE (CyAcosta41 @ Jun 18, 2012 -> 01:08 PM) Thanks, but you misunderstand my 1/162 reference. I'm no Hawk groupie, but it's just like how Hawk (endlessly) refers to "you'll win 60, you'll lose 60, but how you do depends on what happens with the other 42." So many 1:1 battles in baseball, so many decisions that not only impact what happens later in the game, but what happens later in the week, month, and season, that we can all spend a lifetime second, third, and infinity guessing everything if we're so inclined. That's the nature of baseball. EVERY team deals with countless moments just like this (NOT just the White Sox -- most of us just follow the White Sox though). EVERY manager makes decisions that turn-out differently than how he hoped they would (NOT just Robin Ventura -- the same happened with Connie Mack, John McGraw, Earl Weaver, Tony LaRussa, Bobby Cox, Ozzie Guillen, or insert the name of your favorite manager here). I know 1/162 is important since they all add up, but the entire 162, the entire body-of-a-season's-work is more important. And for the record (since this post stays in the permanent record that is the internet), nobody hated Robin's decision to take out Quintana more than I did. He was breezing, dealing, and totally on auto-pilot. I'm with what I'd imagine to be a majority of people and let Q start the inning, having Reed ready if any trouble arises in the pivotal 9th. However, no way is that the "right way" or the "only way." Plenty of baseball managers and experts (real or in the reality of their own mind) would have done just what Robin did -- graciously accept Q's yeoman work and turn the 9th over to a guy who had been perfect for the year and who has a "chance" to be a long-term stud closer. I wouldn't have done that, but I think it's overly simplistic to say that many baseball lifer's wouldn't have done exactly what baseball lifer Robin Ventura in fact did do. Love talking Sox, but I'm choosing to be angsty about things I think are bigger problems -- like why intentionally handicap yourself to THAT extent by such an extreme Sunday lineup that had so little chance to score more than a run or two, losing momentum from a nice Saturday night win, and ensuring a downer of a long flight home. To this point in the year, I had been happy that Robin was staying away from getting the scrubs in all at the same time (something I thought was one of Ozzie's biggest flaws as a tactical manager). Hopefully today's mess of a game might become a memorable lesson! In all fairness, that line-up worked just fine on a weekend against the Mariners and Mr. Millwood. I remember complaining about it and was proven wrong. And hitters like Lillibridge, Fukudome and Flowers with big/long swings can't just get their timing playing once ever 10-14 days. Lillibridge actually hit two balls on the button for outs (one an amazing catch by Ethier, the other right at 2B) and had a hit, so he looked about as well as he has all season.

QUOTE (High Mileage @ Jun 18, 2012 -> 12:34 PM) Royals took the Cardinals to 15 innings today, but won the game and the series. They've won 5 of 6 by 6 runs, total. The bullpen has been great but man they are completely overworked. Myers and Odorizzi should be up soon. Paulino and Perez will be back within a week. If they are still within 5 games or less of 1st, they will be buyers at the deadline. Hopefully they bring in a starter or two. We begin a 3-game series in Houston tomorrow night. The Astros are 27-39, but 18-14 at home. And man, the Cubs are f***ing awful. But not as bad as Zach Stewart. And they do have two good starters in Dumpster and Mr. Notre Dame Prince Valiant.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Jun 18, 2012 -> 11:57 AM) We'll have to agree to disagree...I don't care who you are bringing in. I just don't. This is what happens when you try to get too cute. It comes back to bite you in the ass. You're about to score with a hot chick, but you decide you want to nail her friend too...then you end up pissing them both off and now you're not nailing anyone. Unless you have mid to late 90's Mariano Rivera, you leave Quintana in there at least until one batter reaches.

QUOTE (greg775 @ Jun 18, 2012 -> 11:32 AM) That article was great. Oz is right. This is not the instructional league. I prefer a low key manager who lets the players play. I mean all managers will be second guessed. Look at Robin today. So he pulls the starter and the reliever blows his first save. This doesn't freak me out at all. s*** happens. Yes he should have left him in ... in hindsight. But Reed let the manager and the team down. It's not really Robin's fault; it could have gone either way. s***, the young lefty mighta got shelled in the ninth. We'll never know. Just like Ozzie. He makes decisions and most of them are the same as any other manager. Ozz is low key. Oz is the man. Great article. The problem is that he never applied his KNOWLEDGE of the fact that almost none of his players were fundamentally-inclined and changed his decision making process about bunting, for example. And it's not exactly accurate to say they never focused on fundamentals...they had their Camp Cora and every year there would be a procession of fundamental mistakes that would lead to the team having an offday dedicated to bunting or whatever the soup of the day problem was was and it would "take" for about a game or two and then everything would go back to crap and it would be totally forgotten. It's one thing to say the major league coaching staff isn't accountable or responsible for the lack of preparation or tools Sox players arrive at the big leagues with...it's quite another to run yourself into out after out after out and then blaming the players when blame really should have been directed at our minor league system for doing such a poor job of preparing players in terms of those "little things." I'd go as far as to say that all the better minor league prospects should have been flown over to Japan or South Korea in the offseason for a REAL fundamentals bootcamp, Asian-style.

QUOTE (onedude @ Jun 18, 2012 -> 09:34 AM) Q & Peavy with awesome games and nothing to show....Humber is the lone winner this series with a mediocre effort. And that's being VERY generous to the word mediocre. If a 7.2 ERA for a game isn't bad, then I guess one more run would have been, because we would have lost that game in extra innings, too.

Like Humber in 2011, it seems like we lucked out into another starter in Quintana. That said, we wouldn't have been any worse off this season with Thornton and Floyd both gone before a single pitch was thrown...and might have received some actual halfway useful pieces back, as well the payroll savings. So it is what it is. Beck from Georgia Southern might be our best starting prospect RIGHT now...if not, it's neck and neck with Castro and Axelrod. Note: Please keep Marco Paddy away from KW until someone we've acquired from the Blue Jays' system actually does something for us that's helpful at the big league level.

On the other hand, Quintana's looking like almost a carbon copy, but with even better stuff. Business-like, composed/poised, fearless, one of the rare Sox pitchers who likes to come inside and challenge hitters, lots of movement on his pitches, numerous swings and misses....

QUOTE (Carlo Paz @ Jun 18, 2012 -> 09:00 AM) When I buy the Sox, I'm going to show this game to all prospective employees...even hot dog vendors. I'm going to ask each and every one of them to defend Robin's decision to pull the starter in that situation. Anybody who answers anything but "it would be completely stupid to pull the starter there" will not be hired. If you liked the decision, well, you're entitled to your opinion, but you are not working for me. Ironic, but this was one of Ozzie's strengths, letting starters go as long as possible. Except when they weren't experienced or veteran pitchers. Of course, he never really had a rookie pitcher who did so well as Quintana is doing now...the ONLY exception is McCarthy down the stretch in 2005. Would have to look back at those boxes to see similar situations where Brandon was pulled for Jenks/Politte/Cotts down the stretch.

QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ Jun 18, 2012 -> 08:52 AM) Come on, it's Scherzer, we have seen this before. His ERA in the 4 starts before this one was 5.82. He will have another stellar outing then get shelled a couple times. Still, if you had to choose between Scherzer/Porcello and Humber/Floyd, you'd never go with the latter pair.

QUOTE (OilCan @ Jun 18, 2012 -> 03:09 AM) Leesman has been really, really good the last few games. Makes me wonder if Thornton gets traded, if Leesman gets a crack at the bullpen for the Sox? Isn't Veal pitching pretty well too? You've also got Heath, and then Santos Rodriguez has been pitching much better for BIRM. Scouts have always loved Santos' potential/stuff/frame. Leesman doesn't seem like he stands much of a chance. Jared Mitchell is a couple more bad ballgames away from being a .250ish hitter in the Southern League All-Star game. Viciedo-like streaky this season.

QUOTE (Cali @ Jun 18, 2012 -> 07:50 AM) How many "this will be when the Tigers make their run" runs will they have to have before we realize they're just not that good of a team this season? No One. And I mean NO ONE. Is going on a run away in the Central in 2012. Not The Sox. Not The Tigers. Not the Indians (The Royals don't even merit discussion) This division will be won with 90 wins at most. And it's gonna be bitter all summer and into the fall. It'll be nailbiting heartbreak or victory (which will also make hearts malfunction) Welcome to 2012. Scherzer looks like he is turning things around, had the shutout today. Fister's tough and is back. If they also get back Smyly from blister problems, it's going to be very hard to stop them. Our roster, as currently comprised, isn't going to be enough to hold them off. Right now, the only thing keeping them from taking first place back is Valverde, their defense and injuries to Smyly and Avila.

QUOTE (2nd_city_saint787 @ Jun 18, 2012 -> 07:56 AM) Todd Frazier has been pretty damn good filling in at 3rd. I'm not sure I do want him just throwing his name out there as a possibility. If his injury was what was holding him back early in the year (sound familiar?) then depending on what it takes to get him I'd take a flyer on him. Except they really value Rolen's leadership and presence around the team. He probably won't even be able to play everyday...so that crosses him off the list. It would be like adding Eric Chavez.

He and Jamie would rather take the money from the beer and give it to animal shelters instead. How dare they cut into Applebee's operating margins!!!!

QUOTE (The Ginger Kid @ Jun 18, 2012 -> 08:23 AM) Trainor should have been called safe. The run in the 9th should've been the loss. Maybe it would have been better to have the tie game there, which probably would have forced Ventura to use our best reliever in Nathan Jones. Although I think it would have been 3 games in a row for him...not sure you can risk that. In the end, the only positive to come out of this series was Ventura's learning curve just shot upwards. Unfortunately, it cost us two games in the standings to the Tigers. Is anyone convinced we're even going to draw more than 30,000 tmrw for the Zach Stewart game?

QUOTE (greg775 @ Jun 18, 2012 -> 08:16 AM) I think many posters are especially mad about losing yet another series because we are basically conceding Monday's game by going with Zach. We're creeping back to .500 land which is prolly where we belong despite career-type years from AJ, Paulie, Dunn and Peavy and of course Rios. Hate to not finish first in a season Rios excels like this. Why would Rios playing up to his contract mean we should finish in 1st? That's like Tigers fans being upset ANY season they don't make the playoffs with Verlander, Fielder and Cabrera on the same roster. In the end, if Sale can't pitch beyond 160 innings and Danks is going to be on the shelf for a long period of time, there wasn't really a chance to hang with the Tigers anyway down the stretch. They just have too much firepower, and all the money in the world to go out and make additions to fix their problems (2B, bullpen, SS, outfield corners)...they're a revenue generating machine these days.

QUOTE (greg775 @ Jun 18, 2012 -> 08:09 AM) Cause, it's hard to be an automatic closer. That's why I puked when people ripped Bobby so badly at the end, forgetting for a long time that he was automatic. Reed is good, don't get me wrong, but as I said earlier, give him a full season and he'll blow 5 to 10 saves, which would have gotten Bobby crucified on here. Reed had a stretch where he was automatic. Hopefully he'll save many more than he blows. The last time Jenks was "very good" was in 2008, and even then, it's "what you do when it really counts?" He wasn't dependable at all against the Twins. In 2009 and 2010, he gave up more hits than innings pitched. His overall save conversion rate was a touch below 85%, which is the standard, but it was definitely time to part ways with him after 2010. If he and Thornton would have pitched better down the stretch in 2010, we would have had a legit shot at the Twins (and Manny Ramirez not looking more like Jason Dellaero). Reed is now 8/9, which is 89% He's been "okay" but far from great. More alarmingly, his stuff out of the pen has been surpassed by Nathan Jones, who's featuring two better pitches than Addison has going right now.

QUOTE (He_Gawn @ Jun 18, 2012 -> 08:08 AM) Today, Quintana was a stud... He threw 77 pitches and didn't give up a run. You don't take him out. As Hawk would say, "You don't know s*** about baseball". It has gotten to the point where EVERY big league manager hides behind the "that's what we have a closer for." It's far too specialized now. Go with your gut and instincts, that's why you were hired as a first-time manager with zero experience. To not just go by the book in those situations. If you go with your best reliever, Nathan Jones, on Friday night in the 6th...and leave Quintana in Sunday, you're sitting in a much different position. Jones did have ONE recent hiccup, but, all things considered, he's been the most dominant reliever on our staff since Opening Day. Maybe his using Crain there in the 6th is a sign that Jones has passed him in Ventura's mind...but it sucks we had to lose two games this series due to "on the job training" for Ventura. In all fairness, nobody expected the White Sox to be in first place at this point in the season and there was reason to believe these games might be like every game played by the Cubs since the middle of May.

Bad, bad weekends: Tiger Woods Robin Ventura Sox relievers The umpires Adam Sandler's production company movies with Julianne Hough or Tom Cruise singing

We're going to end up going through five closers in one season. Santiago, Thornton, Sale, Reed and eventually Nathan Jones. Reeds' stuff just hasn't been as crisp, for whatever reason. He's not going to get away with throwing 93-95 MPH up in the zone three times consecutively against any big league hitter.

The only argument against leaving Quintana in there is simply the fact that he's less than a year removed from foundering in A Tampa. That said, you have to go by the evidence of his performance ever since he's been with the big league team...which is indisputable. 0.063 BAA against in day games. Matt Thornton doesn't pitch 1/3rd as well against LHBer's in his prime. I just don't understand why they didn't leave him in to TRY. That would have taught him more than being pulled did. We all get the fact that he gives up a baserunner and he's probably getting lifted, that's fine. But the pitch selection and execution was just horrible in the 9th and the 10th. If we want to compete for the division title, we can't leave 2 games out there like that. Now the Tigers are only 3 games back when we should be back to 8 games over and with a much more comfortable 5 game margin, and 3 1/2 over the Indians. We can't seem to get out of our own way in close games or extra inning games. First time the Dodgers have taken a series in interleague play against the Sox.

1-4 now in extra innings, also very bad in one run games. 11 blown saves leads the American League...which is pretty amazing when all you hear is raves about Reed, Jones, Thornton, Crain, etc.

QUOTE (Jake @ Jun 18, 2012 -> 07:06 AM) Matt Thornton gave up two soft liners to left field He no longer can get K's when he needs them. Everytime the batters put the bat on the ball, something bad happens to him, and it has been the case since April of 2011 or really since the ASG and Thome beating the hell out of him in the 2nd half of 2010. He's just been a shell of his former self the last two years. No confidence. It's almost like he expects something to go wrong.

They should just put Thornton on the waiver wire and see if anyone will claim his salary. I'm convinced that even if there was a runner at 1st or 2nd instead of 3rd, he still would have managed to choke the game away somehow. It's what he does. Once again, another hitter well under .200 against LHP comes through against Thornton.