caulfield12

QUOTE (Baron @ Jun 19, 2012 -> 12:23 PM) Not even at the break and your calling the season already. Were in 1st place btw Right now, you'd have to say the Tigers are still the favorites. If they can keep Fister healthy and get Smyly back from the blister, and get Avila back 100%, they're going to be a tough out...no matter how bad Valverde's been pitching. However, if Peavy keeps pitching like this and the team starts to fall out of, you see what you can get for him and use the 2nd half to audition virtually everyone in AA/AAA for next season. That also gives you a better idea of what to do with Gavin Floyd.

QUOTE (fathom @ Jun 19, 2012 -> 12:14 PM) He's in AA, and it sounds like KW was praising Simon Castro today. I keep seeing people talk about Axelrod and others, but it seems like a lock the rotation is now Peavy, Floyd, Sale, Humber, Quintana with Axelrod next in line. Pedro Hernandez made the Southern League All-Star team, and his stats are similar with Quintana. Not surprising you would hear more hype about Castro and Mitchell (who's sinking fast) than Mr. Molina. Can't wait for the "puff pieces" about Ryan Howard/Barnum and Hawkins/Kemp taking the rookie leagues by storm.

Wonder how Dr. Lewis Yocum and and his staff missed that one? Glad he got the second opinion, surely he knows his own body better than anyone else and just felt that something wasn't right...an acute ache or pain, a soreness that lasted longer and that he had never felt before between starts. On one, it's great to know that's probably a lot of the reason he wasn't performing well, trying to pitch through it since Spring Training and never getting his crisp fastball back and just gutting it out ala Peavy. It really puts the whole organization at a cross-roads in terms of what to do about 2012 (buying, staying put or selling or a little of all 3), though. PTAC guest appearance on the program in 5, 4, 3, 2, 1....

QUOTE (greg775 @ Jun 19, 2012 -> 11:24 AM) What do you want your manager to do? You know how many hours they spend at the park? Ozz has time to f*** around. Like he said, let the coaches do the things they are paid for. The manager is the organizer. I wouldn't read scads of stats on the Internet either, if I were Ozzie. His track record suggests his style works. Make that past tense, WORKED. He hasn't adjusted since 2005.

QUOTE (hammerhead johnson @ Jun 19, 2012 -> 11:23 AM) Who'd have thought that Brandon McCarthy would turn out to be a more valuable SP than Danks? I thought that trade was a heist at the time. It will be interesting to see what kind of contract he ends up with on the FA market. He's definitely one of the top five FA's available, but you have a long list of injury problems and the "Oakland Effect" on pitchers which shouldn't be overlooked, either.

QUOTE (fathom @ Jun 19, 2012 -> 11:15 AM) What a mess. Still unbelievable to me they didn't have a back-up 3rd baseman on the bench coming into the season if Morel struggled again/got hurt. Too bad they didn't get Chavez like they tried to. If we had just kept Juan Uribe after 2008.... 1) We never would have had to move Beckham to 3B 2) We never would have traded for Mark Teahen, nor extended him 3) We never would have had to give away Edwin Jackson for virtually nothing just to dump Teahen's salary 4) We'd AT LEAST be getting above average defense and inconsistent offense from him...and I think Juan being around Allen Thomas and Hermie more, he wouldn't have gained quite so much weight as he has with the Giants and Dodgers Maybe you can argue that KW wouldn't have felt the pressing need to sign Viciedo and project him at 3B, but most reasonable observers always believed Dayan's bat would be his plus tool and were never convinced he could stick anywhere in the infield except for 3B.

QUOTE (fathom @ Jun 19, 2012 -> 11:04 AM) Well, this outcome is truly not shocking. Two straight give away games by our stupid organization. Great thing we rested all of the starters yesterday when we knew that Stewart was going tonight. Starting Quintana tonight would have made so much more sense, especially with the Cubs being 3-15 vs LHP this year. Zach Stewart is terrible (I don't think he'd even be effective in the minors with the stuff he has), can we please stop trading with the Blue Jays please? I avoided this one like the bubonic plague...well, actually, I had to get a health exam so lucky I missed it. Fathom's point is a good one. We knew a couple of days ago they were going to move Sale back and use Stewart, we should have played the entire bench AND started Stewart on Sunday...get all the bad news out of the way in one game. Essentially, we just gave up 2 of the last 3 games...it's not like we're in a pennant race or anything. That Dodgers' series is going to have a hangover effect, it looks like. We'll find out for sure tomorrow when we start the game with at least a decent chance to win the game.

Well, this is going about as well as expected. Indians/Reds, 7-7

And the Reds are back on top. Votto is a beast, and the Reds are white hot, and Lowe probably sucks more than Latos, so there's that. The evils of two lessers pitching there.

QUOTE (chw42 @ Jun 19, 2012 -> 07:38 AM) There was once a midget who played in the bigs a long time ago, his only PA was a walk. He had a career OBP of 1.000 and an OPS of 1.000. Hall of Fame numbers. Eddie Gaedel. Bill Veeck trick, with the CLE Indians.

Cris Collinsworth or Todd Hollandsworth? By the way, note to the Reds. One, Latos sucks and gives up way too many gopherballs to make him worth the price they paid for him. Note 2: Never, ever throw Lonnie Chisenall a fastball over the plate. That's the only pitch he can actually handle.

QUOTE (TaylorStSox @ Jun 19, 2012 -> 07:59 AM) Gotta wonder if Floyd and/or Humber are tipping their pitches. Both have had their good stuff recently, and their FB's are getting jacked. Not good stuff if it's really just one effective pitch. That includes having an electric, moving fastball you can command. Good curveballs. That's basically it. But out of the stretch, both of them are getting hammered, and Gavin's especially not driving off the mound and getting full extension, which is causing his pitches to elevate and lose speed and movement.

QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Jun 19, 2012 -> 05:03 AM) Well its more to the point of, ultimately you aren't going to stick Floyd into the pen. He's getting paid a lot of money and you aren't pulling him. So what are you asking, that the Sox move Humber/Q and add another starter (one who probably gets paid) to what is an already expensive rotation (Danks/Peavy/Floyd all make good money..adding a 4th to a cash strapped club doesn't make much sense to me). It's actually going to be interesting to see how long Quintana can pitch this well, to the point where we can start debating "does he have more value to another team versus what we could get for flipping him at his highest possible value?" I doubt he'll be traded, though. And it's equally compelling to see how hard they'll push Quintana against any kind of perceived "innings limit" vis a vis Sale, the most valued property in our organization. Both of them might have to be shut down in August/September. You ride Sale/Peavy/Q as long as you can, try to fix Humber in the pen and then try more minor league "band aids" while waiting out a move for a pitcher in a similar situation to Floyd's whose rights you could control into 2013 but who doesn't have to stay on your payroll indefinitely. And then there's the big elephant in the room, what's wrong with Danks?

QUOTE (TaylorStSox @ Jun 19, 2012 -> 05:25 AM) I understand both sides of the argument and don't envy KW. I'd like to dump some of those contracts, but Peavy is the only with enough value to acquire a legit prospect or 2. The problem with dumping those guys is that replacements aren't available. So, you dump some money and reinvest it into younger players. However, herein lies the catch, 35th street isn't viewed as a destination for FA's. I'm 33 and we've landed 3 big FA's in my lifetime. They've lost out on a number more. The GM position for the Sox is a tough one. You can't buy a team. You have to get creative, which is one reason KW's moves have been so hit or miss. This probably the reason he's so adamant about not burning other gm's. He's needs a working relationship with them. The good thing is that there's still time. We have about 45 days til the deadline. The picture should be more clear then. Hermanson, Iguchi, Dye, El Duque, AJ None of those were splashy moves like David Wells, Dunn, Albert Belle or even Jaime Navarro, but look where it eventually led. Same with Quintana, DeAza, Jenks, Santos, Humber, Carlos Quentin..."under the radar" has always worked much better for this organization. As far as not burning other GM's, I'm sure AA isn't happy with the Santos situation, but nor are we about Molina. He's been "burned" a lot more often than not since 2008. By the DBacks, AA, Beane, and Rizzo, in particular.

White Sox dynamic ticket pricing....cutting off the nose to spite the face. Sometimes, when you think of all the strategic mistakes they've made starting with SportsVision, Harry Caray, the new ballpark and its location....it's a miracle there's still another team still left in Chicago. And yet, the White Sox are currently something like the 8th or 9th most valuable franchise in MLB. More valuable than the Cardinals, for example, which, to me, is the model for how to run an organization from top to bottom.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jun 19, 2012 -> 02:11 AM) Maybe it will happen. It was mentioned today that Boston has scouted the Sox the last 4 days. I wonder if KW wants Bard. The Red Sox are ready to throw the towel in on the season already? That would be shocking. Or they believe that adding Crain/Thornton/Nathan Jones and prospects (Mitchell, etc.) would be worth it for a possible frontline starter, possible bust?

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jun 19, 2012 -> 02:08 AM) Not really. Most tickets are already sold. Their walk ups are next to nothing. Believe me, there is going to be questioning tonight when there are plenty of empty seats. They will fail to mention its at least $85 to sit downstairs and about $50 for the worst seats in the house. My couch, 46 inch Samsung, and a/c are looking really good tonight, although I'll go if I find something reasonable. The only way I would spend $100+ dollars (assuming I was actually in America or Chicago) is if Sale or Peavy or Quintana was starting. At this point in time, I'd just have ZERO interest in seeing Humber or Floyd struggle out there. Zach Stewart, I'd be even less inclined. Coca-Cola Value Packs Looking for a great value? These packs include 4 tickets, 4 Dodger Dogs, and 4 Coca-Cola's - all starting at just $18 per seat! Here's what I don't get, if Los Angeles is an even more expensive place to live than Chicago, and they're not going to loosen up on the parking and ticket prices like they do in LA, why can't they offer more food/drink specials at USCF?

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jun 19, 2012 -> 01:57 AM) If someone took Peavy, Dunn and Rios right now, it would theoretically free up over $81 million the next 3.5 years. I think you could find a centerpiece that could excite the fanbase. Let's say we went crazy and went after Josh Hamilton. The problem is we never have any leeway to make more than one or two mistakes or the franchise is completely stuck in neutral, like right now. The right move, like a Miguel Cabrera (with the requisite minor league pieces being in place to get him) or Victor Martinez in 2011...you're set. But one false move, like holding Ramirez too long or Danks' contract being another disaster, you're stuck again in the same place. Experience should have taught KW that going after the big names wasn't what worked....it was saving the money from Magglio/Valentin/C-Lee and investing it into about 8-10 mostly veteran players and having great starting pitching and a lights out bullpen. The obvious problem is that our starting pitching is short and will likely be at least one more starter short in 2013. And then you're going to ask JR to take on a multi-year contract for a pitcher after watching what has happened with Peavy, Dunn, Rios and possibly Danks now? No way would that be a good investment.

QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Jun 19, 2012 -> 01:23 AM) I will continue to reiterate that I would not make a deal to add a starter. The Sox have 6 guys capable of pitching (if you include Quintana and he should be included in this mix for the time being). If the Sox want to make an upgrade, add a veteran reliever (although I'm fine with the pen as is) or pick up a 3rd baseman. That is all I would do. Otherwise let the young players develop and see if the Sox can somehow get there magic back and win the division. You have a lot more faith in Cooper, Floyd and Humber than many do. You're probably right. 3B is an easier fix than adding pitching, which is always prohibitively expensive. If nothing else, we can always refer back to Holmberg/Hudson for Jackson to scare ourselves straight from making another desperation move like that which paralyzes our future. For all we know, one of those guys will come around. Then again, we also know Quintana won't continue to post a 1.5 ERA, either. And we do know that at some point, Sale's future and present will collide around the 150-170 IP mark. I just wish KW knew what he was doing and that there were better options to inspire confidence than Stewart, Molina, Castro and Axelrod.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jun 19, 2012 -> 01:40 AM) Rios, Dunn and to a much lesser extent, Peavy, are not about maxing out value per se. Its about being a one time opportunity to get out of contracts that can strangle you in the future. And again, I don't think it will happen, I don't think it can happen. I'm just saying if it was an option, I'd do it in a heartbeat. But then you start playing this game, then Ramirez and Danks might be contracts in the same boat. So where do you stop? Then you trade Thornton and Floyd and maybe Crain, then what's the point of having AJ and Konerko around any longer? That's the flaw in this whole "band aid" approach, as soon as things are looking good, another two more holes in the dike will pop up and there won't be enough money/attendance/minor league depth to make a big enough move. The only way we can increase revenues is actually the bump from the attendance the year after a deep playoff run. Otherwise, the fans will just sit back on their hands and knees and wait until something is proven to them conclusively.

Here's the problem, when we do trade our prime players like Santos and Edwin Jackson, what do we have to show for it? Molina and Stewart doesn't inspire any confidence. I guess you can blame Paddy for those, but KW is ultimately accountable. Now Dick Allen and I are on opposite sides of the argument. Pretty funny stuff. In the end, it's true, we might have held on to Ramirez, Thornton and Gavin Floyd too long. What's done is done. But can anyone really have confidence that we're going to get back value or replace those salaries with anything resembling superstar caliber talent? At best, it's going to be piecing together a roster with complementary parts that gel into a team, in the face of the monster that is Verlander/Cabrera/Fielder. That's why we need Chris Sale to counter. For Viciedo to live up to expectations. But if we keep trading all these pieces because we're afraid they'll lose value, then we'll end up like the Oakland A's. And even they tried to break that trend with Cespedes. In the end, there has to be a centerpiece to build your team around. Maybe it will be Hawkins, but that's a 3-4-5 year project in all likelihood. In the meantime, we have to protect the franchise from the very real likelihood that our attendance ends up in the teen's for half a decade before we finally have another team to compete for the AL Central. The attendance for this series, during the week....will be very telling. There's still a lot of skepticism about this team, and it's perfectly reflected in the back and forth in this thread. Nobody wants to get attached to any of the players when there's not a belief that they'll be around for long and Konerko and AJ could easily be the next to go, severing all connections with 2005.

One has to wonder how much the garbage that Sandler's put out for most of the last 2-3 years has finally caught up with him? Most aren't blaming Tom Cruise for the failure that is Rock Of Ages, but Sandler's deserving a lot of the blame for the complacency that set in with his production company.

QUOTE (Steve9347 @ Jun 19, 2012 -> 12:24 AM) To think we could have had Brandon Inge for nothing (.775 OPS with Oakland). Would Washington be willing to unload Ryan Zimmerman? He's clearly not fitting in to the whole youth movement, and is getting pretty expensive. That said, if you're willing to gamble on a contract, he'd be worth it. Rumor has it Philly is getting close to fire sale territory if we thought Placido Polanco at this stage of his career was an upgrade. Youk would, honestly, have to be dirt cheap both in cost to acquire as well as cost to play. Always 3-4 years too late. Polanco would have been a perfect 2 hole hitter for this team and could have allowed us to shift Beckham to a more natural spot, although he's doing decently there.

The future's even MORE NOW because of Peavy being on the way out and not knowing how long Sale or even Quintana can keep performing this well. With us unlikely to retain Gavin Floyd (at the present moment), when will there be a better chance to take the AL Central? Are DET, CLE and KC likely to be weaker in the future? By the logic of trading Dunn, Rios and Peavy, we should also be trading Addison Reed and annointing Nathan Jones the closer. Then we might as well be the Oakland A's. Rios, you can understand, if you had a player who could actually contribute to replace him....and no, I don't mean Fukudome or Lillibridge or Danks. If you're going to go ahead and deal Dunn, then what's the point of having Konerko and AJ and Thornton and Crain and Ramirez still around? The odds of being able to compete in 2013 and beyond without Dunn and Peavy aren't going to be that great anyway. Are we really buying this is a possible return to the 2004-05 acquisitions cycle, we're just going to dump all those big salaries and magically come up with another team on the fly with all the savings...? Why didn't we just do that in the first place, instead of going for the big names (which comes with big contracts)?

QUOTE (bucket-of-suck @ Jun 18, 2012 -> 02:56 PM) They need to deal for Matt Dominguez. He's 23, in AAA, and a former 1st round pick that is blocked by Hanley. He's elite defensively and has potential to hit at least at a servicable level in the bigs. Who would we have to trade to get him? And what are the odds that he could actually hit .225 or above and be serviceable offensively right off the bat?