caulfield12

Who's more likely to make it as a 4th/5th outfielder...Short or Martinez?

Maybe he was thinking of LEIF Garrett instead? It would be yet more fun if someone started a "I remember Katie Upton or Mrs. Teahen" one and they posted a response. Or Mark Teahen's dogs. Or Oney.

If Hahn's greatest strength is negotiations....and Danks leaving is basically already a foregone conclusion...that's not the most helpful trait. Other than Mark Buehrle this offseason, we might be 2-3 years from ever having another big free agent signing with the White Sox after the Dunn/Rios/Peavy debacle. Ramirez already signed his extension. That's done. We have Floyd for two more years. And we don't allocate a lot of money for draft picks, so this is all a bit scary, if scouting is his biggest weakness and we arguably have one of the weakest scouting systems in the game already. That doesn't bode well at all for trades maximizing the value of Danks/Floyd, Quentin, Thornton, Ramirez and possibly Frasor or Crain.

He'd be, at best, league average if he played there everyday. Next to Kubel and Delmon Young, he looks decent comparatively. They've moved him all over the place the last couple of years. Everywhere but SS, I think, and C...maybe not CF either. As pointed out above, arm strength is his biggest asset.

Gilmore Jose Martinez Kuhn Phegley Santos Rodriguez Rienzo Reed Infante Mitchell Saladino Silverio You'd have to think that might be at least 4-5 of their picks, from a list similar to that. If Walker had absolutely torn apart A ball, they might have considered pushing him, but absolutely no way now.

Really impressed the Indians have been fighting to the last moment...claimed Harden on waivers but couldn't work out a deal with Beane. Wonder what happened since the Red Sox deal for him blew up over his assorted health issues?

I wouldn't sign Greg, Ozzie and Juan Pierre to the Juan Pierre Dodgers' deal. Joking Greg. Went to the Royals/Red Sox game in KC Thursday night, btw. Really impressed with all the changes in the outfield bleachers and concourses. Wish they would bury those Tide/Bounce detergent signs around the entrances in the upper deck, though, makes it look like a cheesy minor league stadium in those sections.

It's very well possible this team could play much better if they did eat 75% of Rios' contract. Unfortunately, that will never happen. But there's no way to put a dollar value on getting a "benched" or sulking Rios out of that clubhouse. And DeAza has definitely been producing as well or better than anyone expected.

Just wait for the AL to make its first adjustment to him. See Gordon Beckham (late 2009/early 2010). Then we'll see how he does combatting their book against him.

QUOTE (Rowand44 @ Aug 22, 2011 -> 04:04 PM) Remember Jeff Leifer? He really seemed like one of the biggest pricks I've ever met to wear a White Sox uniform. Everyone says the same about Rauch, but he was really cool to the fans at 2001 Spring Training.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Aug 22, 2011 -> 03:32 PM) The title of this thread reminds me of a Caulfield style post. Then I would make it "Lillibridge Performing Like A Rock Star (Party Like It's LilliBOMB's Birthday)"

Greg, you're crazy. He would get $40-60 million more on the open market, and probably an additional year.

Except Floyd's value with team-friendly contracts for 2 years might even be more valuable than Danks for just one. You could make arguments either way. There are just too many question marks with Sale, Humber, Peavy and Stewart to do that if you really want to compete for the AL Central in 2012.

But if you want to ensure future Cubs' "fan faith" (and they definitely showed up in droves at Wrigley this past week...and 132,000 in DET).....then you need a big-name manager and GM for that job.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Aug 22, 2011 -> 01:57 PM) Caulfireld, almost everyone you mention there except Frasor is a minimum contract guy. He gets himself to legitimately $95 million if he signs buehrle but trades away the 4 he wants to move. But aren't Beckham and Humber different situations? Free Agent: 2012 / Unrestricted....that's not right for Humber, but what exactly will happen? He will have 2+ years of service, they can't just offer him what amounts to a minimum contract after his 2011 season, can they? Only $750,000? Is Gordon eligible for salary arbitration for 2012?

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Aug 22, 2011 -> 01:54 PM) Actually his numbers for 2011 are pretty close, because he's subtracted Quentin, Danks, Ramirez, and Thornton, and that's nearly $30 million between them. He's missing about $5-7 million from minimum contract guys and the $3.5 mil for Frasor. Yeah, I figured it out (see above). Can the White Sox decline Frasor's option and still offer arbitration? Not saying they would do that, but could they? Or is it all or nothing, accept or decline the $3.75 million club option. He stays or becomes a FA? He's Type B? But I still don't see how they sell letting Danks and Ramirez go to the fanbase and claiming to be "All In" still... They can't. Impossible. Even if KW/Hahn pulled off a Sizemore/Lee/Phillips haul, it wouldn't be until 2013-2014 that some of the fans started to come back on board.

It still doesn't include Frasor. KW's history indicates he has almost always held onto acquired players to justify the trade return. One of the few I can actually remember him letting go was David Riske. Then the bigger increases for Humber and Beckham. Vizquel, Pena, Castro all need to be replaced....DeAza and/or Milledge, minor league reliever and Flowers, possibly Tyler Kuhn depending on how they use Lillibridge Santos, Lillibridge, Sale and Morel aren't accounted for. That could be something like $7.5-12.5 million (especially with Frasor, since he would be at $3.75 alone). No matter what you do, you're still looking at around $100-105 million with Buehrle. None of the savings will be plugged into added payroll in all likelihood. And there's zero veteran presence on the bench going that way. If Ozzie's around, not sure how much he'll like that.

Good material for Chicago talk radio. The lifelong pull of the Cubs versus allegiance/loyalty to JR, who gave him his first big break in the game. Quite the drama.

I was joking. Just funny it turned out perfectly fine we didn't sign the likes of Hinch, Seay and Bobby Hill. Goodwin might a different matter (from 2009).

QUOTE (Marty34 @ Aug 22, 2011 -> 01:25 PM) Cotts has them at $89.25 as of now, without Ramirez and Thornton it goes down $78.75M LF De Aza CF Rios RF Viciedo 3B Morel SS Lillibridge 2B Beckham 1B Konerko C AJP DH Dunn Signing Buehrle for $12M per say puts them at $91M SP Buehrle SP Floyd SP Sale SP Peavy SP Stewart/Humber RP Santos RP Crain RP Reed RP Ohman RP Santiago RP Humber/Stewart Obviously holes, some of which should be filled with talent received in return for Danks, Quentin, Ramirez, and Thornton. But at $91M you can take on $15M in salary while chopping $20M from 2011. Is this some new type of software? Kalapse's is the only one that is accurate on a year-by-year future outlay basis. I think you're just adding and subtracting from 2011. That won't work...because of all the built-in salary increases (that I outlined above) and the up-in-the-air addition of Jason Frasor.

"We've been waiting for that Tyler Flowers the last three years," said White Sox manager Ozzie Guillen of his interim everyday catcher, acquired from the Braves in December 2008. "The hitting coach in Triple-A did a great job with him, putting him in the spot where we can count on him again." Tim Laker, Charlotte's hitting coach spoken of by Guillen, also received credit from White Sox hitting coach Greg Walker and Flowers himself for this 2011 development. It certainly was not a process that happened over night. PROMOTE LAKER!!! Next projects...Beckham, Dunn, Morel and Rios

That's part of his "master strategy." To reallocate the money even more efficiently for next year's draft class. It was planned from the beginning. The White Sox did the same when they didn't sign Bobby Seay and AJ Hinch. Haha.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Aug 22, 2011 -> 12:59 PM) If Buerhle goes, it is a product of payroll. If Alexei goes it is a total rebuild. Outside of someone like Steward, Santos or Sale, Alexei about the last person that would leave the Sox, even in a significant meltdown of the team. And Mr. Dayan Viciedo.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Aug 22, 2011 -> 12:52 PM) Which means Buehrle should be more likely to go, not less. If you are going to pull the payroll card, you lose. If you are going to pull the age card, you lose. If you are going to pull their overall ranking card, you lose. I think his whole argument is based on the "value added/plus" benefit of still having Buehrle and Konerko around for the remaining fans and season ticket holders. Their presence alone doesn't justify their costs if the rest of the team is looking like a 70-80 win model. Without Buehrle....Konerko then becomes less and less of a draw, because that team (with Buehrle and Danks both gone) is very unlikely to be competitive in the division race. The only way is if Chris Sale or Jake Peavy won the 2012 American League Cy Young/MVP and Comeback Player of the Year awards.

QUOTE (Marty34 @ Aug 22, 2011 -> 12:31 PM) You have to bite the bullet somewhere because of the Rios/Dunn/Peavy contracts. I maintain that it's best to do it with Ramirez because you can get something in return for him and he's not young enough, cheap enough, or frankly good enough to build a team around for the next three years. Getting rid of Danks, Quentin, Ramirez, and Thornton would bring an influx of talent in hopefully. It would also put the payroll at $79.25M which allows for Buehrle to be resigned and $15-20M to fill in holes. Ramirez and Thornton will be at $10.5 million next year (Thornton going from $3 to $5.5 million so basically very little in return at that price, his age, and with one pitch). You can estimate Quentin/Danks at $17-18 million combined. I don't see where you're getting another $20 million in savings, though. Pierre/Teahen/Jackson/Linebrink/Vizquel/Castro/Pena.... +1 mill Peavy +2 mill Dunn +2 mill Floyd +0.5 Crain +3.75 Frasor +4.00 AJ +1.00 Ohman +??? Humber increase Beckham, Santos, Sale, Lillibridge, Morel Won't Beckham be eligible for arbitration for next year? Or 2013? At any rate, very conservatively, you're adding $16-19 million dollars right there in increases. And you still have to replace the salaries of Pierre (DeAza/Milledge), Teahen (Kuhn/Lillibridge), Jackson (Stewart), Vizquel (Kuhn/Lillibridge), Castro (Flowers) and Pena (minor leaguer). So essentially you're cutting just Quentin/Thornton/Danks/Ramirez and the rest zeroes itself out with increases and low cost replacements. So let's say we're at $100 million. Add in Buehrle, we're still back at $110-115 range. And the ONLY way we add payroll AT THAT POINT is for bringing back BUEHRLE. Otherwise, we tear everything apart just to get to $95-105....and Konerko becomes almost superfluous. With all that restructuring done (unless KW actually hit on all four of those trades with young, talented, major league ready players), it would be more logical to play Tyler Flowers at 1B for one season just to save MORE money, if you can't deal AJ or don't want to eat more money. You can argue we won't keep Frasor or won't offer arbitration....but that's still not going to make a big difference in the overall payroll picture.