caulfield12

Yeah, 2-3 seasons. After reeling off 17 consecutive quality starts, there's no way he's getting under $10 million per season, since he's always been very durable and shown no signs of any arm/shoulder problems. If he put up those numbers with AJ Burnett's stuff, he'd arguably be getting $15-18 million per season. So probably around $10-12.5 million per season, over 2+, perhaps with a mutual option for 2014? Plus there's the MB "premium" in the sense that he's worth more in goodwill and ancillary revenues staying on the White Sox (from the standpoint of JR and the marketing team) than losing him to the Yankees/Red Sox/Cardinals/Rangers, etc.

Maybe there really isn't the Thornton market we thought there was....wouldn't the Yankees be the perfect candidate with only Boone Logan in their pen? You'd have to guess they were willing to take Matt's contract extension without giving very much back in return. How many MLB teams besides the Yankees/Red Sox can afford to have a set-up guy (even LH) at over $5 million per year. Well, I guess the White Sox too, since we paid Dotel and Linebrink huge money. And the obvious problem with dealing Quentin is that you're basically telling your fanbase that you're throwing out your 2nd most productive hitter for a prospect who might be great or might just be an average MLB hitter with subpar defensive abilities. If you could go back to 2009, would you rather have the equivalent of two future Quentins (comparing it to the Pomeranz/White deal with COL for Jimenez) or one CQ? Knowing that it's less than a 50% chance that either of those pitchers will/would put up WAR numbers close the value you would project Quentin for at 2010, 2011 and 2012. Of course, the real life situation for teams (in 2011) was only 1 1/3rd seasons of Quentin, and a price tag of $7.5-9.5 million for CQ. Just have a feeling that if you take Quentin and/or Konerko out of that line-up, unless Dunn REALLY comes to life in 2012, there's going to be TON of pressure on Viciedo to hit (and high in the order at 3-6) and we don't know how he'll respond in that situation.

Mitchell and Thompson both struck out 3 times each. 146 on the season now for Jared. 737 OPS. Keenyn Walker is kind of muddling along as well. Charlotte continues to be the most interesting box score most Knights...Omogrosso is another guy to follow in that bullpen, along with Remenowsky.

http://www.purplerow.com/2011/8/3/2341147/...o-jimenez-trade Very good analysis of Jimenez trade and why it doesn't make any sense for the Rockies....J4L, do you agree with him?

http://thebeanball.wordpress.com/2011/08/0...-michael-morse/ Lillibridge the next Michael Morse? I think not. If they do plan to go into next season with Lillibridge/DeAza, Viciedo and Rios as the new outfield...well, I don't know what to say. But 2012 would suck. At least the better the stats that Quentin ends up with, the easier it will be for KW to deal him....IF IF IF he can stay healthy the final 2 months of the season.

Ozzie certainly went with the non-traditional approach of using Sale to get the save tonight. We all would have complained if Sale gave up the lead and Sergio didn't get into the game (let's say it was a walkoff)....but he definitely played the percentages against Mauer and Kubel. Too bad Thornton doesn't have (and never will) that nasty slider of Chris'. And it would be nice if he told Carlos it's not too classy to look at the scoreboard so obviously on a play that SHOULD have been a double play ball and out of the inning had Nishioka made a decent throw to the bag. Carlos, do you really think any official scorer's going to give you a hit on that one?

“Let me explain to the idiots out there, the geniuses,’’ Guillen said. “They say I don’t bench Rios, but the only player I benched because he didn’t hustle, it was Rios, for two days, OK? “Tell these people out there, they think they know baseball more than I do, then send me the lineup that was better without Rios in [it]. Is Rios not playing well? Of course he’s not. He’s brutal everywhere.’’ But he was still Guillen’s best option in center field on the days he played, Guillen said. Pointing out that he has benched Rios for not hustling, Guillen also strongly objected to the notion that he favors Latino players. “You know how many Latino players I got rid of here?’’ he said. “A lot” was the answer. “Thank you, OK!’’ Guillen said. ‘‘Every time the people talk about it . . . it’s a bunch of crap." I hope he's not counting the likes of Luis Terrero and Jhonny Nunez. Let's see, did he get rid of Uribe? I guess. Was that a mistake, probably. Is Ozzie the GM now too, apparently. Cabrera? Yes. Smart move? Money-wise, but O-Cab has won almost everywhere he's gone and we haven't the last three seasons. Freddy Garcia? Colon? I guess...but there were lots of other extenuating circumstances involved. Contreras, I don't think you could say Ozzie "got rid" of him. Just off the top of my head. I'm sure there a lot of more examples that posters will recall. Magglio Ordonez and C-Lee? Yeah, Ozzie "got rid" of them, lol. Jose Valentin, too. Luis Vizcaino? Ozuna? El Duque? Javy, well....you forced the hand of KW on that one and we've gotten back a utility player and a catcher who can't hit or catch very well.

Fathom is always concentrating on the negative, haha. Still am sensitive to that "audit" we did where it listed who posted more frequently in Sox losses. My only explanation is that Friday night games we suck and those are always on at a decent time but not Saturday/Sunday games (Asia time).

JoeCoolMan, I'd guess?

No, I'm not crazy. I have only been to two games in Wrigley Field in my lifetime. Once was my first game (ever) in 1979, Cubs/Cardinals. And then one other time when my best friends were going to school at Northwestern (must have been 1990-1992) and there wasn't a Sox game that day so we just rode the EL down from Evanston. I am ONLY (and very theoretically) going to a Cubs' game because 1) I miss baseball, haven't been to any game in person since May, 2009, 2) the Cubs are actually playing well, 3) I will wear my original "Sosa 25" authentic Sox road jersey, lol. Actually, I have to get pages added to my passport for the 2nd time (11 am appointment) and then go to the Chinese Consulate on East Erie Street for my work visa...so I was thinking I might be waiting around all day/afternoon with nothing to do. Otherwise, it's shopping I guess on Michigan Avenue. Or to see a movie like "Change Up" or whatever's coming out tomorrow. I've also never been to games in Milwaukee or Minnesota. Everyone I know says the MIL ballpark doesn't feel like a real outdoor game/experience (even with the roof completely open), so I was thinking of doing the crazy/insane and road tripping to Minnesota for Saturday/Sunday games. I would like to see TARGET FIELD at least once, but I'm not sure how easy it will be to get tickets since they're technically always sold out these last two years, especially weekend games against their hated rivals (that they're 29-7 against since May 09) the White Sox. But since the Twins are 8 games back and just lost 2/3 to the Angels, it might be possible to get decent seats. If anyone is insane enough to do either, call me (563-359-1504, I don't have a cellphone in the US) or leave me a private message here or e-mail me at [email protected]. Maybe nobody wants to see another White Sox loss (on the road in "Twins Territory" to boot), but it would be better to suffer with fellow White Sox fans, haha. Or Greg and I can report live from a Royals/Sox game next weekend. Greg, up for a game? Haven't been to a Royals/Sox game either since 2006 or 2007. Want to see how that stadium looks like after all the renovations, especially the outfield concourse. Was going through my old baseball card collection and found two Kenny Williams autographs and one of DJ with the Quad City Cubs from 1982, haha. At least they signed my cards, there's that. Of course, so did Bonds, Sosa, Palmeiro, Canseco, Roberto Alomar and Gary Sheffield. I guess it's cool to have Tony Gwynn, Gary Carter, Willie McGee, Lance Johnson, Brooks Robinson, Jimmy Piersall, Claudell Washington (1979 Topps, the very first one and what turned me into a White Sox fan), Sweet Lou Whitaker, Dunston, Andre Dawson, Cecil Cooper, Saberhagen, Ivan Calderon (favorite player in late 80's), Andres Galarraga, Harold Reynolds, Devon White, BJ Surhoff, Benito Santiago, Barry Larkin and Ellis Burks. Memories. And, for some reason, I had about 50 Hensley Bam Bam Meulens rookie cards. That turned into quite the bust. Typical Yankees' prospect. Ty Griffin, what was I thinking? Steve Sax? Cory Snyder?

Okay Greg.... With KW and Ozzie and Walker all still around, what percentage of faith do you have that Beckham will ever again look like the same hitter as 2008-2009 with the Chicago White Sox Professional Baseball organization?

Lindsay or Reed or Infante, just try ANYONE else. Thanks!

Fat chance of that happening. Rios, in the end if he actually sticks around all the way into 2012 and is named opening day starter/leadoff hitter...will end up doing more damage to this franchise financially than the $38-40 million it would cost to buy him out. Just watch.

We were 9 games under last year as well, but that 26-5 stretch really evened things out. We've been between 5 and E for almost 2 1/2 months now. Just stuck in neutral but going backwards on a steep hill. Last year, at this same point in the season, we were 62-47 and probably in first place still (for a fleeting moment).

QUOTE (Brian @ Aug 4, 2011 -> 09:05 PM) Well, I thought THE CHANGE UP was hilarious but it is getting ripped to shreds by critics. Oh well. Not boxoffice.com, they love it. Cowboys & Aliens is worse than Wild Wild West. What the hell were Jon Favreau and Spielberg thinking?

Except Bruney ended up tiring Crain out from having to go two nights in a row and he (Jesse) just wasn't as sharp with his stuff. Crain has really hit a bad patch again at the worst possible time for it. Sunday's loss really killed all the good vibes this team had going at that point. And then he got pummeled yet again by his former team in the 9th tonight. Time to move on and bring up a youngster who's legitimately a part of the future of this organization.

Jordan Danks and Tyler Kuhn with good games today. Viciedo at least got his first hit since coming back. Rienzo pitched well as a starter....must have been on a pitch count. Addison Reed continues to pile up numbers.

Darn you Cliff Pennington and Juan Pierre. You were both the downfall of that 7-4 team.

The 4-18 stretch, the games head to head against the Twins (as well as starting out 0-5 against DET) and the most recent Sunday/Monday games against the Red Sox and Yankees. That's what killed this team...largely. That and Dunn/Rios/Beckham/Morel/Pierre (first two months). Last year, it was easy to point to the Jenks blown save and Thome walkoff against Thornton as the two key big blows to the Sox.

Except Jordan Danks, Flowers (maybe he was just a product offensively of the PEDs there with the Braves, to a large extent), Mitchell (not anyone's fault)...I'll give them credit for Viciedo and Sale, but obviously Beckham's also regressed, which (of course) has zero to do with Buddy Bell. Still, let's face it, we're somewhere between 28th-30th in terms of where our system sits right now. It's pretty brutal and barren. In the end, we've taken a number of steps backwards from where the 2009 season started, with Birmingham as a monster franchise filled with prospects up and down that roster. I really loved to listen to those Barons games the first half before everything was torn apart. The two crown jewels of this timeframe (Beckham and Sale) spent very little time in the minors at all. So then the question becomes, what players have progressed and made themselves quality prospects? Who can we point to this year? Addison Reed, maybe. Tyler Kuhn as a fringe utility player who might or might not take Vizquel's or Lillibridge's spot someday. But we don't have any of the bats (beyond Viciedo) that can do monster damage at USCF at any of the corner positions. Maybe Trayce Thompson. And Saladino's seemingly an improving prospect. Escobar will never hit well enough to make much of an impact, and with our line-up as is, you can't even contemplate about giving him a starting spot anywhere on the infield. Hopefully, Mitchell's last 6-8 weeks are much more indicative of his overall future. Crosses fingers. 24-32 at home. That should be enough for the front office to stand up and take notice alone. Where has the home field advantage that was so obvious in 2008 gone....the last three years, they might as well have been playing at Grant Park or the Brewers' stadium for all the difference it has made to the W/L percentage.

Which is what we were saying at the end of 2007 as well, right? That's the ONLY reason to hope, that KW turned things around twice (2004-2005 and 2007-2008) in total course reversals. But the Tigers, Indians and Royals all are better positioned (for the next five years), and the Twins are drawing 40,000 per game and have a beautiful new stadium.

It is way too kind to KW...though. That's the weakness. There's 20 mistakes that he has made since the end of 2008 we could list. Wilder, etc. What has Buddy Bell actually done that's had a positive impact? Recommending the Mark Teahen trade and then long-term extension? How has Bell improved our minor league system? Is there ANY evidence that we can point to at all? Only 3 positives. Viciedo, Humber and Santos.

Look at the White Sox line-up and approach tonight. Gordon Beckham's swinging out of his ass against sliders 2-3 feet off the plate that Roberto Clemente or Vladimir Guerrero couldn't hit. He simply cannot hit an above-average major league fastball up in the zone with that stance. Rios, Dunn, Quentin and Ramirez are trying to pull nearly every pitch...how many DP balls and two-hoppers to 3B and SS do we need to see in one year. There's no reason Alexei Ramirez should be hitting into so many double plays, none! Other than Konerko, Pierzynski (sometimes) and Pierre, how many of our hitters take the ball and accept hitting it where it's pitched? Perfect example tonight was Konerko's solid base-hit to 2B/RF through the hole. At least Morel's TRYING to do things correctly up there, but he's just overmatched and needs to play everyday in Charlotte to regain some confidence. You have the sense that those four are the only team players offensively, and maybe Lillibridge, although his offensive approach for the past 6 weeks has been absolutely miserable. At that size (and speed), you have to cut down on your swing, make contact more consistently and put the ball on the ground. Period. If all these players are tuning out (or listening but the results never show up in the games)....then you HAVE TO DO SOMETHING DIFFERENT...unless you want to eat the contracts or trade Rios, Dunn, Beckham and even Ramirez or Quentin. Here's the thing. Profit/loss or cost/benefit analysis comes into play more than anything, and JR's a wise businessman if overly loyal to a fault. One thing he knows for sure. Whatever our season ticket base is now, let's say 16-18,000 per game, it's going to be cut down to 7500 to open next season if Guillen, Walker, Williams, Dunn and Rios are all back. It might even be down to 5,000, but the last thing he can afford to do is cut payroll by $30 million, lose Buehrle, bring in no new talent or reason for hope (other than Viciedo) and not change a a single thing operationally/strategically in terms of the direction of the franchise. I don't think JR is dumb. Something has to give between now and the end of December. It simply has to.

I'm sure he's flattered so many people noticed him in one day, lol.

Except if we started the season with Santos as our closer, we might not have had that 4-18 stretch that buried our season right off the bat and killed any fan enthusiasm for the Sox this season. That and feeling confident Morel was ready to play everyday.