caulfield12

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Aug 31, 2011 -> 06:52 AM) That's the key to all of this. He was lucky to find a taker for Wells, but his return for Halladay isn't looking so hot right now, and he was (and still probably is) the best and most valuable pitcher in baseball. Kyle Drabek, though still young, has been absolutely demolished at both the MLB and AAA level this year and one has to wonder if he's not injured. Michael Taylor - who's been OK - was actually traded immediately for Brett Wallace. Wallace was then traded for Michael Gose, who has, again, been OK at the AA level. Travis d'Arnaud has played well this year, but that's one player. He was lucky to find a taker for Wells too. I like Anthropolous and what he's done with that organization as much as the next guy, but they are still quite a ways away from getting out of 4th place. People were in love with Jack Zduriencik too and then the M's fell flat on their face and his plan failed, and suddenly he is thought of as a middle of the pack GM again. There are many ways to go about building a team - the Astros brought in as many players as they could for Pence and Bourn to try and replenish the depth they'd lost over the years as well as getting as many serviceable MLB players as they could. The Jays have set themselves up with high ceiling players, but if 2-3 of those players completely flop, especially some of the bigger names (this year alone, Snider and Lind could have done wonders for them, but their presence has been non-existent), it's all for not. What I see is high variability with that team. There will be a year, probably within the next 4, that they win anywhere between 92-102 games. And then there will be a couple years that they only win 75-83. That's the nature of young players and how they pan out. Some players blossom and continue to be stars. Some come out like a bang, struggle for a year or two, and then find their groove again. Others succeed at all times they are not injured - which is often. Some succeed, fail, and then can't get it back. There is a lot which is yet to be accounted for. Before anyone declares AA as one of the best in the game, I would suggest that they take a step back and wait for everything to pan out. In the meantime, I'm going to suggest that, if using wins/resources, Andrew Friedman is the best GM in the game. I don't think there's much of an argument. AA looking at potential $100+ million pitcher Yu Darvish. http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/blog/big_leagu...urn=mlb-wp18464 You would have to think the Dice-K and Aroldis Chapman experiments would be cooling off most GM's on these huge international signings...

Considering his OPS (563) was in Alex Rios territory, I guess about the only positive spin on Walker is that he started out so slowly at KANNY that he actually started to make a decent adjustment the last 2-3 weeks of the season to at least bring his BA into the .230's. For now, not much reason to project him above and beyond a 4th-5th outfielder type...but he has a full season next year starting at KANNY and then moving up to High A if it's merited to prove his worth.

There are...depending on the return. Of course, considering he's heading for a $7.5-8.5 million this offseason (arbitration), his value's even lower than it was at midseason 2011, when KW passed on the opportunity to trade him.

Dear Marty34/Joe C., Why would we want to keep Buehrle if you're trading away 1/3rd of the team? Doesn't make much sense. And why would/should we trade Santos? Because of yesterday? Why would you trade away a cheap closer who's still currently at an 85% save conversion rate when at the very beginning of the year our veteran closer disaster (with Thornton) was one of the key factors for our 4-18 stretch? Who would you replace Santos with? Chris Sale? Crain? Frasor? (I'm assuming you're ditching him too, yes?) A. Reed? Infante? I don't get why it's so important to keep Konerko and Buehrle around when they won't be (arguably) contributing enough to be a good match for the "new core" that should be fully maturing around 2013-2014. Sentimentality? Because of JR? Attendance? Well, that will be brutal even if you keep both of them if we're projecting 72-78 win teams. I get the arguments for trading Alexei Ramirez, although you can forget fielding a competitive team when the rest of our division has Peralta and Cabrera putting up 18-24 homers per year and Escobar struggling to put up a 575-600 OPS.

QUOTE (Marty34 @ Sep 4, 2011 -> 11:16 PM) Exactly. Have to throw Ramirez, Thornton, and Santos out there too. This rebuild can be relatively painless given the division. The goal should be to have a solid core in place by the time Peavy, Rios, Dunn, Konerko, Buehrle (re-sign) contracts are off the books. Why would we want to keep Buehrle if you're trading away 1/3rd of the team? Doesn't make much sense. And why would we trade Santos? Because of yesterday? Why would you trade away a cheap closer who's still currently at an 85% save conversion rate when at the very beginning of the year our veteran closer disaster (with Thornton) was one of the key factors for our 4-18 stretch? Who would you replace Santos with? Chris Sale? Crain? Frasor? (I'm assuming you're ditching him too, yes?) A. Reed? Infante? I don't get why it's so important to keep Konerko and Buehrle around when they won't be (arguably) contributing enough to be a good match for the "new core" that should be fully maturing around 2013-2014. Sentimentality? Because of JR? Attendance? Well, that will be brutal even if you keep both of them if we're projecting 72-78 win teams. I get the arguments for trading Alexei Ramirez, although you can forget fielding a competitive team when the rest of our division has Peralta and Cabrera putting up 18-24 homers per year and Escobar struggling to put up a 575-600 OPS.

QUOTE (Greg Hibbard @ Sep 4, 2011 -> 09:21 AM) Yes, it is almost certainly over. This is not even close to a bad team, just a disappointing and frustrating one. I commend the team for clawing back into a race they had no business being in. However, they will finish probably 10 games worse than they should. C'mon Hibbard, you're better than that. A race they had no business being in? Even the Twins after being 20 games under .500 were legitimately back into the race before falling off again. The White Sox had 3-4 months to put together a run and they didn't manage it. They had no business NOT being in it. For most of the second half, they were 2 1/2 to 6 1/2 games back. I'm pretty sure we were only 11-7 in interleague play this year. Change that to 15-3...which came in the midst of that 26-5 run in 2010...and we're legitmately a part of the playoff conversation, even at this late point.

And an apparent difference of opinion between Williams and Walker, whose future past 2011 is in question, according to two team sources. "They are two grown men talking," Guillen said. "I don't have any details. Walk tried to tell me, and I said that wasn't any of my business." Said Walker: "I learned a long time ago the rule of baseball is what goes on in the clubhouse, stays in the clubhouse. That's where I'm going to leave it." Two weeks after Williams said it wasn't too early to suggest that struggling Gordon Beckham's career was at a crossroads, Walker said Saturday: "The only thing I'll say about Gordon is that he's still a kid in this game. He's just a kid. He's learning how to play here and working as hard as any player I've ever coached." Guillen, meanwhile, scoffed at suggestions that his hope for a new contract posed a distraction. "If people think we're horse(bleep) because I made that comment, (bleep) them too," Guillen said. "I respect my players more than anything." Ozzie's starting to remind me of Emperor Commodus in Gladiator. "The time for honoring yourself will soon be at an end, Ozzie."

Well, the main difference is nobody expected anything of those late 80's teams. Before Ventura and Thomas arrived, nobody cared to watch them, either. Then finally the 1990 season came and there was a reason for hope and enthusiasm about the White Sox again. This year's team SHOULD have won the division and should have piled up 89-93 wins with the pitching we have and playing in a very down AL Central except for the Tigers. It doesn't feel like 2006-07, because the idea of any type of extended run or "dynasty" of Sox dominant winning baseball was still tangible until it ended the final 2 months of 2006. With how everything KW has touched has turned to mush or sludge for the last 3 years, you can't be completely surprised by this season....well, maybe the Dunn part....but the rest, we've been conditioned to expect over recent seasons.

Why not blow an 8-1 lead in this game? Of course, Santos had a scoreless streak going again...yet another sign this season wasn't meant to be. Game over. Patented Santos implosion. Don't even really care at this point.

Is Wilkins really perceived as a legit prospect to be an everyday MLB 1B, full-time? Obviously he put up some strong numbers this season...but I've never seen him on any Top 10-15 prospect lists for the White Sox, and with the depth of our system, that's pretty telling.

Santiago pitched pretty well for the Barons. No decision, not his recent dominant self and the 4 walks were a problem Saladino continues to trend upwards, Mitchell back down.

Pretty hypocritical Ozzie thought Viciedo wasn't close to ready to hit clean-up. But batting 5th is absolutely no problem whatsoever.

Wonder if KW didn't promote Infante in order to spite Ozzie? Then again, Escobar's Venzuelan. These days, looking for any possible KW/Ozzie conspiracies.

God, Beckham's just totally awful. I think watching Joe Cowley hit in his place and whiff 100% of the time would be more interesting. I still remember the stupid "challenge" he gave to AJ that he could steal 2B on him easily...what a tool. http://www.beloblog.com/Pe_Blogs/prosports...s-it-looks.html

At least we're not firing him for torturing the English language. I do think it's a bit ridiculous the way certain writers want to focus on his mangled phonetic pronunciation or "Ozzie-isms" to undermine him from an intellectual POV. He's never apologized for his lack of formal education...or even not learning proper grammar the past 25 years in the US.

QUOTE (docsox24 @ Sep 1, 2011 -> 04:45 PM) nice research terrible hitting what are the numbers since say july or so when it was clear these guys were never going to hit this year and a change should have been made? Post All-Star break...when they made their compelling "Braveheart-ish" vows to lead the team Rios 31/142, 2 HR, 12 RBI's, .218 BA, 566 OPS Dunn 17/99, 2 HR, 6 RBI's, .172 BA, 523 OPS

Just a feeling, but wouldn't be surprised at all if Hector Santiago's having more of an impact on the White Sox 2-3 years down the line than Z. Stewart.

QUOTE (kitekrazy @ Aug 31, 2011 -> 05:40 PM) Having an ace can be a big difference. Sure the Sox have 3 good starters but no ace. The Twins were always lacking one component that was always revealed in the post season. There offense numbers in 09/10 were nothing to laugh at either. I think in 09 they were the best in baseball hitting after 2 outs. Johan Santana says "hello." Unfortunately, they also never saw Liriano's devastating slider in 2006 in the playoffs, or they would have had a great chance that season. Those two were like a buzzsaw through the entire league for half that year. As far as the Tigers go, if you subtract Valverde (Papa Grande), Al Al and Benoit, there are some pretty horrific numbers. They did boost the pen with the addition of Coke as well, but they're going to struggle in the games Verlander doesn't get them to the very back end of the pen. And everything's really up in the air with their #2/#3 starter. You'd have to think they would go with Fister and Scherzer, although Penny and Porcello have had their moments all season long. too. Scherzer got his brains beaten in his last time out.

It's going to have to be a LOT of cash, as Rios is owed somewhere around $40 million (including the buyout). All things considered, as much as I detest Rios, I would rather gamble on him coming around than hoping for a "Crede" miracle in terms of Rowand resuscitating his career at this late stage. From a physical standpoint, I can't see how his body would even stand up for very long with everyday play in CF. The problem is that he doesn't have the offensive game to man a corner outfield spot, and he's definitely not a speedy/slappy leadoff hitter either.

I think you could make an equally compelling argument for Terry Ryan of the Twins being the best overall GM in the game, if you took his payroll limitations, the Pohlads and a smaller-revenue producing stadium into account. Heck, the Twins were almost vanquished from baseball and they went on to win 6 out of 9 division titles and they were a coin flip away from 7/9. Almost every single player that contributed to the 2010 Twins' team was put in place by Ryan, with the exception of Delmon Young's monster year. In the end, the DY trade turned out to be something of a bust for them. Luckily, Bill Smith has turned out to be a bottom third GM so far in his tenure. Of course, in Friedman's defense, the Rays have a much higher bar to get across with the Yankees and Red Sox, there's no doubt about that. But I would definitely take Ryan and Friedman over Beane. Seems Beane needs to see what he could do with a higher-revenue team in order to really prove how good a GM he could actually be. Perhaps, like KW, he "peaked" in the Hudson/Zito/Mulder/Tejada/Chavez days and his best years are firmly behind him in the rearview mirror.

If Peavy would have limited it to 4 runs in the first inning.... Well, we still have a 25% chance of coming back and winning this, because the Twins' bullpen is so horrible. DJ predicting a Rios homer? Hahahaha!!!

Morel actually would be more productive with the "lift and pull" approach of Ramirez/Quentin/Rios/Beckham arguably. Game over in DET.

QUOTE (fathom @ Aug 31, 2011 -> 02:28 PM) If Beckham still has significant trade value left, you have got to look into dealing him this offseason. He's another year away from full-out bust territory. Only to a team that has a very solid offense at most positions and needs to solidify its infield defense.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Aug 31, 2011 -> 02:25 PM) Really, I don't think anyone is calling KW stupid for letting Betemit go. If they are, I'll call them stupid. The revolving door of Fields, Teahen, Vizquel, Viciedo and Morel at 3B has made KW look stupid enough, as is. Would have been better had we just kept Uribe after 2008 on a two-year contract.

Getz singles, 20th steal of season. On second base with 2 outs now and at least a chance to tie it.