caulfield12

Yeah, the Tigers were chased down both times by the Twins, but I was talking about the 2008 and 2009 seasons specifically. The weird thing is that most Tigers fans consider the White Sox to be their biggest rivalry, and yet the Twins have been the much better club.

QUOTE (southsideirish71 @ Sep 15, 2010 -> 08:59 PM) Well pre-season predictions mean s*** when you are in first place after the ASB. Its one thing to play good fundamental hard nosed solid baseball and lose. Its another thing to get taken to the woodshed by the crap in the AL and then bend over for our annual Twins slam. The last two years, of all the teams leading their divisions at the All-Star break, I think it was only the Tigers in 2009 and the D-Backs in 2008 who didn't make the playoffs (10/12 teams eventually made it or at least got the Wild Card). Add the White Sox to the casualty list.

QUOTE (fathom @ Sep 15, 2010 -> 08:50 PM) Gavin's ERA going to be over 4 now...but yeah, safe to say Twins starting pitching is just a little better than ours. Not according to Rongey. How many times have we said this season would go down to the final series of the year? Doesn't look like it's going to happen in 2010. The thing is, even with Hudson instead of Jackson, our rotation wouldn't be unbeatable because our offense in 2011 is going to struggle mightily. We spent the past offseason worrying about that element of the club, and things are going to look more dire now, because resigning Konerko at elevated dollar figures based on 2010 is a recipe for disaster...OTOH, it seems impossible to imagine bringing in another bat to replicate Konerko's stats this year. And Hudson in the rotation frees up $8 million or so for that aforementioned bat. Still, if they can spend $3.8 million on a worthless Manny Ramirez, they SHOULD be able to spend SOME money. But I don't see any easy solution to get out of this mess...we're boxed in by the Twins and the probability of the Tigers having a much-improved club next year if they spend even $30-40 million in new contracts to replace the $60 million of contracts coming off the books. With Cabrera, you don't need many pieces to build an offense around him, and Austin Jackson looks like a keeper.

Never would have predicted a Twins-White Sox game thread for this series would be at only seven pages long one month ago. We made up 14 games, and now we've lost almost all of them back, only 1 1/2 game differential from where we were at the "low" point of the season when we were 9 games under .500 and 9 1/2 back. Of course, our overall record will be pretty decent...85-86-87 wins, but nothing to write home about. We're back in that position in September where we might as well lose games and get a higher draft pick next year, because the attendance from here on out is going to be abysmal, except for the Red Sox fans that might show up at the end of the season (undoubtedly, they'll be out of the WC race, so even that will be a pick-up of only 3-5,000 fans).

QUOTE (BigSqwert @ Sep 15, 2010 -> 01:48 PM) Not sure what that means. It's basically saying we're better than the Twins despite their 6/9 ALCD run (very easily could have been 7/9 and 1/10 for the Sox) because our 12 wins from 2005 and 2008 more than cancel out their few playoff wins this decade. In fact, the only team that the Twins beat was the A's in 2002...and the only team the A's beat was the Twins, likewise. They were swept last year and have been blown out of every playoff appearance by the big-market teams.

QUOTE (nitetrain8601 @ Sep 15, 2010 -> 01:35 PM) Oh please. The sky is falling. I agree the Sox need to draft better and put better resources in Latin America. At the same time, we have, but haven't given them time to pan out yet other than Alexei. I think Viciedo very easily could turn into a Kendry Morales type hitter. Honestly, it would be a super duper dark day if the Sox rolled out a starting lineup of: C Flowers 1B Viciedo 2B Beckham 3B Morel SS Ramirez RF Rios? CF Mitchell LF - Danks That's a pretty awful lineup. Seats would be completely empty, even for series against the Yankees. The team wouldn't recover and we would be strapped with a KC type payroll in a large market. That would be doom. Now if you threw in a Carl Crawford here (unfortunately he will be out of our price range), Beltre at 3B (assuming he could repeat his two strong, and perhaps anomalous offensive years, one with LA and now with BOS), a productive Carlos Pena at 1B, that line-up becomes at least league-average if Mitchell becomes a star. Of course, that's a big if. I feel pretty confident about Viciedo going forward, with Flowers as a huge question mark and Danks, I wouldn't even connect his name with a starting position. Morel might be a tweener, you'd really have to surround him with a lot of offensive pop at USCF, because he's not the kind of hitter who you could consistently expect to put up anything over a 750 or 775 OPS. That would be fine, if he fielded as well as many think he's capable of...

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Sep 15, 2010 -> 01:25 PM) So basically we want to be a mid-market payroll team with reasonable ticket prices that makes the playoffs every year and is nearly unstoppable once they get there every time, and we're going to call for management reorganizations until that happens? The closest models we have to follow, if you throw out the Twins...probably the Cardinals and Angels, in terms of the upper tier franchises. The problem is that the Cardinals own the entire St. Louis market, and their fanbase might be the best (overall) in baseball. So perhaps the Angels, because they were the "second tier" team in that market and have really battled the Dodgers (especially since the McCourt divorce fiasco) to a draw, almost. Other teams that come to mind include the Braves, Mariners in the early 00's and Giants, although we're never going to consistently spend the money SF has under Magowan (examples like Zito and Rowand come to mind right away). I think the St. Louis comparison is appropriate because they're now quite payroll conscious, especially since Jocketty left, but even before...they were in the process of operating more and more like a mid-market team economically while simultaneously being the home of the game's biggest superstar. I can't wait to see how things shake out with Rasmus, LaRussa and a new deal for Pujols.

QUOTE (chiguy79 @ Sep 14, 2010 -> 09:12 PM) I expect we will be picked 3/4th this offseason also, motivation hopefully. I just have a feeling KW is a repeat of the subprime mortgage mess and we are going to have to pay for the "I want it now" mentality soon and the house of cards will be exposed and we are going to have some tough years...hopefully I am wrong and we have some good surprises out of the system...who knows I know I didn't expect a WS in 2005! Hope springs eternal come February 2011!! Having acquired Ramirez and Edwin Jackson now is looking like the death/freeze of/for any offseason moves and probably facilitates the depatures of Konerko and AJ as well...

QUOTE (southsideirish71 @ Sep 14, 2010 -> 09:09 PM) Its the same thing over and over and over. Their game plan is simple. Throw lots of breaking pitches and pitch backwards. We get very aggressive and get ourselves out. When we get men on, throw breaking pitches and expand the zone. Our game plan is the opposite. Throw lots of fastballs, because for some reason in all the years we have played them, we haven't figured out that they hit fastballs. They catch the ball and play good defense. We pucker up and kick the ball. They hit the cut off man, We over throw the ball and allow the trailers to get into scoring position. They shorten up their stroke and make contact with men on. We swing from our heels and have no game plan. 3-1 and 0-2 are the same count as far as we are concerned. They pound the zone with strikes, we like to get behind hitters. Because you know, no one is expecting a 2-0 fastball. The twins run the bases aggressively. We run fast, sure into outs more than other teams, but we run fast. The big change besides running into so many outs and caught stealings is sacrificing so many potential big innings by bunting runners over. I knew as soon as I saw that Guillen was going to have Alexei (already with 2 hits) bunt the runners over to 2nd and 3rd that somehow the bases would end up loaded and we would inevitably fail to get them in. That's been the formula all season long against Minnesota for the Sox.

I think 78-84 wins was what the majority predicted, as Minnesota was clearly the favorite, with many picking Detroit second. That said, after 90 games, we were in first place by 4 1/2 games and had the Twins reeling and on the ropes before Jenks choked the fourth game of that series away and that was the beginning of the end...followed by the loss to the Mariners that Jenks also blew the following series.

Well, we can cheer for Aaron Cunningham (now hitting .325), Jon Garland and Clayton Richard to hold off Uribe and Rowand, haha. I really hope the Padres win that division...and to see Chapman become a star for Cincy in the post-season (Dusty's return to glory), definitely rooting for Atlanta over Philly, and likewise the Rangers and the Rays. Anyone but the Yankees or Phillies.

QUOTE (greg775 @ Sep 14, 2010 -> 08:54 PM) Flowers, Viciedo, Lilly, Morel for starters. They might actually, you know, beat the Twins. I guess we're still "in it" though, even tho we are 7 out. You know if we win the next two, it's just five out. So cmon out and pack the Cell, fans, will be the marketing cry. Don't give up. I think White Sox fans know better. With the exception of one "lucky" post-season game (because of the coin flip, a rule later changed), that's the ONLY possible reason to have hope...but yet here we are with another late-season, second half home game against Minnesota "choking" it away with the bases loaded and the relievers blowing up in innings 7-9.

QUOTE (fathom @ Sep 14, 2010 -> 08:51 PM) yep...for as hard and unlucky as he hit the ball the first few months, he's been the exact opposite since the ASB. Balta was so freaking right about trading him when his value was high. His contract is going to be such an albatross. I wouldn't say that...yet. Look at players like Alexei Ramirez and Beckham who looked completely worthless the first two months, or Quentin looking like an MVP and now untradeable again in the span of 45 days. Gavin Floyd was one of the worst pitchers in baseball the first two months and one of the best ever since. This team is like Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde. That's why it must be so difficult to decide what direction to go in for the front office and JR.

It might have been better had Thome hit another walk-off. That would have pointted the media glare more squarely in the direction of Ozzie and KW. Now they can simply make the argument that Minnesota's better, tip your cap, hang wiff 'em, Peavy's out, etc.

Now entering the game, Jose Paniagua (Bread and Water) Oops, that was 2003. At least that particular season-defining series, they won the first two and then lost the last five in a row against Minnesota down the stretch.

Perfect. The White Sox have absolutely sucked with the bases loaded against Minnesota in the 2nd half.

Look at everything that went "wrong" with the Twins and their solutions.... Morneau out=Thome in Punto/Harris injured or ineffective=Danny Valencia and Alexi Casilla are there to save the day Blackburn/Baker/Slowey go into a funk=Brian Duensing pitches like an All-Star, AAA castoffs/DFA's throw admirably and Blackburn/Slowey/Baker all return to normal Span, Cuddyer and Kubel all disappoint (you could also include Mauer and Morneau)=Delmon Young, Thome and Valencia help pick up the slack Let's not forget the veteran, stabilizing influence of Hudson and Hardy up the middle. Nobody talks about either of those guys, but I'm pretty sure they still have under 20 errors combined up the middle Nathan hurt=Rauch, Crain and Capps step up and hang in there and save MOST games, at one point a couple of weeks ago (and it has to still be true), the Twins had only lost 2 games all season they were leading after 7 innings Both Liriano and Pavano pitch like All-Stars and certainly frontline starters...

Rongey is getting on the fans for calling in and complaining after a victory. I think he must have been reading Greg's posts, haha. Called Quentin's at-bat "gutless and feminine" which I would laugh if he said that to Carlo's face. CQ has been totally lost at the plate these last 2-3 weeks, there's no doubt about that. Rios seems to be coming out of his tailspin a bit, though.

QUOTE (pittshoganerkoff @ Sep 10, 2010 -> 08:36 PM) The Sox beat the Royals and Joe West's umpiring crew. How did Harrelson handle it? Farmer and DJ were trashing them, said they should be fired/reassigned and that they clearly have a vendetta against Guillen and the Sox. Four balk calls against Buerhle when no other crew has called one?

Atta boy, AJ. We really needed to get a clutch hit and get back in the win column to keep hope alive. Worried a bit about Beckham's wrist. Prefer they just shut him down for three days and bring him back against MIN on Tuesday. Sale continues to be effectively wild, only has given up runs in a single appearance out of 13 trips to the mound.

Matt LaFatta....aka LaPorta, homered to give the Indians a 1-0 lead. Hope springs eternal. Pavano, of all pitchers, only 3 IP away from 200 at this point in September.

This year, with this playoff system, the FedEx Cup plays, and that is entirely because of Tiger. No man can make something buzz like Mr. Woods, and his struggles make this interesting. It's like when the Cowboys or Yankees are in danger of missing the playoffs. Sure, the Jaguars or Twins might be cruising into the playoffs, but nobody cares about that. They care about the mighty sports franchises falling flat on their respective faces. It's our culture to praise negative news over positive news, and this year's Race to the Cup is that perfectly exemplified. Thought this was funny that the Twins were specifically mentioned in a golf article (yahoo sports) as a team nobody cares when they win or get to the playoffs. Doubt we'll feel that way with their fanbase occupying USCF next week.

How is it that Carl Pavano looks like Carl Pavano with the Indians and then morphs into a legit #2 starter with Minnesota? Well, one can only hope that he pitches in the playoffs against the Yankees and beats them, kicking further dirt into the face of Cashman and all Yankees fans. But I doubt it happens...just want to see it.

I'm going to threaten to burn down this website just so I can be a national celebrity like "Reverend" Terry Jones. Because you spelled Allah incorrectly and dishonored Islam, I will have to start by burning my Jerry Dybzynski cards and 1977 collared White Sox jersey.

The last 2 1/2 games in the standings probably shaved off at least 5,000 in attendance for every game in this series. Unfortunately, we don't even have the Twins' games on the weekend to maximize attendance with the first home games for Manny Ramirez, so I'm afraid you're going to hear at least 30-40% Twins' fans during the weeknight games. I think it's safe to assume at this point that the ROI in Ramirez's contract isn't going to come close to $3.8 million. If the Royals take 2/3, they tie us for the first time in the season head-to-head in many years (unless they managed to do it in 2007, haha). But I would think it goes all the way back to the 80's or maybe once or twice in the late 90's when they last won or tied a season series against us.