caulfield12

I was just playing Devil's Advocate back. Guillen and KW are equally responsible for Swisher, IMO. It was never a good fit, with Ozzie, or the entire veteran-led clubhouse. KW knew bringing in both Cabrera and Swisher would lead to some volatility. If he didn't anticipate it, he's not as smart as he thinks he is.

QUOTE (Jenksy Cat @ Sep 29, 2011 -> 04:00 PM) He had PK, Dye, Thome, TCQ, Alexei in his one year here before we dumped him for nothing cause his sparkiness couldn't be handled. But none of those guys were leadoff hitters, unfortunately. Except Alexei on Opening Day, I think.

QUOTE (Marty34 @ Sep 29, 2011 -> 03:59 PM) You're making stuff up. Joe Cowley doesn't do that? Surely, you jest. I thought all journalists were filled to the brim with integrity and a never-ending desire to win a Pulitzer.

QUOTE (Marty34 @ Sep 29, 2011 -> 03:54 PM) What? You clearly saw the 2004 team, at the end of that season...had the makings of the 2005 World Series champions, largely because Ozzie "Knute Rockne" Guillen was the manager? But because of Ozzie's absence, the 2012 White Sox have zero chance to compete for the World Series title, correct Wizard from Zanzibar? My point is, with your all-seeing, all-knowing omniscient omnipotence, clearly you've correctly foreseen everything that has ever happened in the history of the White Sox and perhaps the rest of the world, true? Just hoping you could put that same talent into good use to save lives, that's all. Or at least enrich yourself by picking the winning lottery numbers.

QUOTE (Steve9347 @ Sep 29, 2011 -> 03:45 PM) I was serious in all of those statements. Ozzie is definitely brilliant. He managed to make himself a superstar in this whole ordeal, and despite being a failed manager for 3 straight years making his move to Miami big-time news while getting another $10 million. He's making money. So Ozzie is an entertainer, more like Lady Gaga or Rush Limbaugh in leveraging his own brand to personally enrich himself? I'll buy that.

Watch Ricardo Andres be the only player of the 3 who makes it to the big leagues... That would be pretty telling for KW's not so renowned Latin American scouting department.

QUOTE (Marty34 @ Sep 29, 2011 -> 03:46 PM) This post speaks for itself. You see a potential World Series team in the making. I do not. But you clearly did in 2004, right? You were there with Rodin to notice "The Thinker" lurking in that block of granite...or warning onloading passengers to leave the Titanic before its maiden voyage, or the Hindenburg. Only Kenny "The Genius" Williams can see it. Mere mortals cannot.

QUOTE (greg775 @ Sep 29, 2011 -> 03:41 PM) KW should be fired if he doesn't go after the best available guy. I have this weird feeling some guys may turn the job down, though. You got a pretty boy GM with an ego and an owner who at any moment might go on the cheap again. And you got the Dunn problem. Assuming he has a blank checkbook. Which clearly he doesn't. Otherwise, any one of us could get on a plane (ala Billy Beane in MONEYBALL), go to St. Pete and bring Dave Martinez back as the new Sox manager, or Terry Francona, for that matter. And the manager has to be signed off on by JR, as well. So if JR wanted to spend $7.5 million, give LaRussa a seat on the board/partial ownership interest and promised a "golden parachute/front office" position for TLR at age 70, do you really think LaRussa would still stay in St. Louis?

QUOTE (Steve9347 @ Sep 29, 2011 -> 03:41 PM) Misconception: Ozzie was a good in-game manager. Misconception: Ozzie was good for the image of the Chicago White Sox. Misconception: Ozzie cares about you. Misconception: Ozzie is in it for anything but money. Misconception: Ozzie is not brilliant. Phil Rogers called Ozzie, not KW, a "genius." (That was Marty on KW) That must make it true, and empirically more true or valid than anything said on a messageboard or blog.

Greg will poll 100 Jayhawks fans and they will claim never to have heard of Dunn or Rios but will be conspicuously wearing their brand-new Miami Marlins glow-in-the-dark gear. After Bill Self and Roy Williams, #3 on their "I'd most like to have a beer with..." list would be Ozzie Guillen, followed by the Reverend Fred Phelps, anyone from the cast of "The Big Bang Theory" and Minka Kelly.

QUOTE (Jenksy Cat @ Sep 29, 2011 -> 03:32 PM) Well if Marty were running the team, think of what we could have gotten for Crede, Rowand, Buehrle, PK, Garland, and Garcia after '04!!! That 2007 team would have been STACKED Just like the Twins and Indians really took off with the hauls they got back for Johan Santana and CC Sabathia...clearly the White Sox could have leveraged an even bigger haul for their remaining stable of players. We could have sold "high" on Bobby Jenks before he ever pitched for the Sox because clearly he was going to break down in 2010 and 2011 as he was only a one inning, 60 IP per season pitcher.

QUOTE (RockRaines @ Sep 29, 2011 -> 03:24 PM) Swishers numbers by year (OBP and OPS): .322 .768 .372 .864 .381 .836 .332 .743 .371 .869 .359 .870 .374 .822 Such a shame Ozzie hated him. Maybe Swisher just needed.... 1) To be surrounded by All-Stars at every position so his offensive game would pass by unnoticed 2) Not to be forced into the leadoff spot, which is at least 50% KW's fault because Cabrera wasn't a protypical leadoff hitter and Jerry Owens was doomed to fail...at least to objective scouts who had been following him since his Expos/Nationals days 3) A wind tunnel to the RF bleachers In the end, it's still far from clear the Yankees will retain his services. We'll see.

QUOTE (Marty34 @ Sep 29, 2011 -> 03:14 PM) So the gist of all this is the Sox aren't 15 games worse than the Tigers? If you believe that, good for you. Well, Marty "The Genius" 34. We finished 9-10 games back of the Twins in 2004. Clearly they were more talented, they'd crushed the White Sox in 2003 and won three consecutive division championships. So tearing apart the entire organization and dumping everyone to rebuild at that point in time would have been the prudent move from a financial standpoint in order to protect JR's pocketbook. Oooops, they did that, well, sort of....getting rid of Ordonez, Lee and Valentin. But KW clearly didn't trade away every talented player left for "prospects/suspects," like you're suggesting with Ramirez and Santos. And we actually won the World Series the following year. What do you know? A clever retort besides we finished 15 games behind the Tigers would be nice, but I'm not expecting much...thanks in advance for your time and consideration. So Marty, how is 2011-12 any different for this organization with KW in charge than 2004-2005? Because we finished 9-10 GB instead of 15 and were OH SO CLOSE (seemingly) to the juggernaut Twins?

QUOTE (TaylorStSox @ Sep 29, 2011 -> 02:03 PM) Can it be argued the second Swisher trade was Ozzie's fault because he forced Williams hand? We should also blame the entire veteran clubhouse, too? DeWayne Wise, for being on the roster to take his place? What about Greg Walker and Steve Swisher, for him refusing to work with his own batting coach? Like the Rasmus situation in St. Louis, should Ozzie have forced him against his will to work with Greg "The Guru" Walker?

I know. We should name Bill James as our manager, just to prove how good (or bad) the father of all SABR movements would actually be as a "real" manager and not just a Strat-O-Matic one. Probably a better idea than Paris Hilton or Kim Kardashian. Although Ryno's a close 2nd, just because it would annoy the Cubs' columnist from the Quad-City Times who named his first-born son after him.

QUOTE (Jenksy Cat @ Sep 29, 2011 -> 03:06 PM) I'm personally offended by your use of logic Well, sometimes it works. Surely, it will end up with a brief, pithy one or two sentence deflection about Kenny "The Genius" Williams.

So essentially, Loria's gambling the Guillen contract will pad his pocketbooks enough in the short-term to limit the long-term damage Ozzie will eventually do to that organization, right? If anyone really believes they're going to spend on Aramis Ramirez, Fielder, Pujols, Reyes, Edwin Jackson, etc., they have another thing coming.

QUOTE (Marty34 @ Sep 29, 2011 -> 02:53 PM) Ended 15 games back after young talent given chance to play. So if you were a fan of the Braves or Red Sox, you'd argue they have no talent either, right? Because since the White Sox young talent failed, they still didn't do as poorly as the more-hyped young talent in Atlanta or the 2nd most expensive roster in the majors. If you remember, we'd dumped Edwin Jackson and shut down Peavy. 1/3rd of our starting rotation was completely different. If the pitching staff put up the same numbers in August and September as the first four months, you'd have a more valid point. Yes, Viciedo was disappointing, but it seems he wasn't 100% healed from his wrist problems. He was expected to be the biggest contributor, and it actually turned out to be DeAza instead, along with Flowers and Morel showing some encouraging pop as well. You're also discounting the nearly historic run that the Tigers put on for six weeks, the presence of Justin Verlander and Miguel Cabrera (2 of the 5 best players in baseball and true superstars) and the fact that our manager was more concerned with money and Miami and his next contract or his impending sojourn to Spain. How would that inspire the team? Finally, you're discounting what any of these players (including Dunn/Beckham/Rios, all "relatively" young, especially Gordon) can do with a new hittting coach and manager in place. Surely, after 2007, your pronouncements about trading Jerry Owens, Josh Fields, Andy Gonzalez and Ehren Wasserman would have been just as bleak, right? Finally, you keep arguing we should trade one of our cheapest and highest ROI players in Santos because of two blown saves to the Tigers. If we finished 11 games out instead of 15, would that have meant you would still have wanted to keep him and the White Sox young talent wasn't as bad as you're arguing?

The new manager’s star power was evident at his Wednesday unveiling. The Dolphins fill about one-third that room for postgame press conferences. For Guillen, you couldn’t have slipped a sheet of notebook paper between the wall-to-wall media. Guillen won a World Series with the White Sox in 2005 but is as famous for his candid outspokenness and eccentricity. Suddenly, because of Guillen far more than the new ballpark, the Marlins brand is bigger nationally, bigger in Latin America. Suddenly, the Marlins will be discovered by ESPN SportsCenter. Guillen likened his deteriorating situation in Chicago to a hurricane and said he was allowed to “evacuate.” At that Samson leaned into a smiling Loria and whispered, “Hurricane Ozzie has arrived.” (Loria, evidently smitten by the metaphor, later referred to Guillen as “a Category 5 manager.”). Guillen, I was pleased to hear first hand, will espouse on anything he is asked. Probably even baseball, if it ever came to that! Animated frowns, gestures and shrugs decorate his speech. Words come fast and loud, and occasionally in slips a word (or three) seldom heard in, say, a church sermon. It is difficult to imagine Guillen won’t get on the nerves of Loria, who couldn’t get along with Joe Girardi or Fredi Gonzalez. Even Guillen admitted that some, at a glance, might think, “Wow, that’s a crazy combo!” But Loria knows what he is buying, seems genuinely thrilled to have him, and should be. If this has been a bland franchise lately, Guillen is a one-man spice rack. His English is heavily accented, charmingly fractured and wonderfully unfiltered. Ask him anything. Seriously. Like: Ozzie, are you a Hugo Chavez supporter as we’ve heard alleged on local Spanish radio? No, he said. But then he also said, “People talk a lot of s--- about Fidel or Chavez, that’s their problem. I wish I knew [Chavez], I’d be ambassador to Spain, collecting money and watch bullfights. Everybody in every country deserves [the government] they get.” The latter comment won’t endear Guillen to Miami Cubans, but pandering seems of little interest to this man. Guillen, on how the Dolphins haven’t done much for years: “No s--- they haven’t. Am I lying?” On why the Marlins needed their own stadium: “You come here and you see Shula and the ’72 team. After they win a World Series they don’t deserve that.” On coming into LeBron James’ and Dwyane Wade’s town: “In Chicago Mike Ditka was gone, Michael Jordan was gone and Oprah left. It was Ozzie’s town. Now I’m No. 4 [after the Heat’s Big 3]. I’m done!” On money: “I’m gonna put a championship ring on your finger or give you $10 million, what you take? My satisfaction is a ring, but my goal is to have money!” On baseball fans: “If they knew the game, they’d be sitting next to me.” (Guillen was not even asked about his following the Santeria religion, which was probably just as well. Although no animals were sacrificed in his time in Chicago). Guillen’s arrival is not as big as LeBron last summer taking his talents to South Beach, but in a baseball context it is close. It would take a superstar signing — of an Albert Pujols stature — for the Marlins to top this. “I want people out there to feel proud to be a Marlins fan,” Guillen said. “I’m not cocky, I’m not arrogant. I have confidence. I feel like I’m back home. I’m ready to go into spring training and kick some butts.” For the Marlins, the future is now here, and the snapshot of it is a swank new ballpark and a garrulous Ozzie Guillen. The Marlins’ past? That left us Wednesday, but left the memories behind. And the snapshot there, for me, will always be those early-arriving fans applauding reverently, and moving Jack McKeon to tears. Read more: http://www.miamiherald.com/2011/09/28/2430...l#ixzz1ZN9yEtp4

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Sep 29, 2011 -> 10:37 AM) By the way, anyone other than me have an urge to go dredge up the trade deadline threads where the Braves passed on Carlos Quentin and had Michael Bourn as their only big deadline addition? But without Quentin for the final month down the stretch, wouldn't the same scenario have played out in all likelihood?

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Sep 29, 2011 -> 08:35 AM) Dude, seriously, GIVE IT UP. We're not packaging Chris Sale and Alex Rios to move Alex Rios next year. It's not happening. If Dunn is hitting .159 again on June 1st, do you really think that he wouldn't retire?

QUOTE (MAX @ Sep 29, 2011 -> 05:03 AM) I think it depends upon their standings. If they are anywhere close, I'd say they evaluate them on june 1st. Rios would never quit, but Dunn very well might. He has SOME pride, every professional athlete does. And yet I can't remember a player in history walking away from $30-35-40 million still on the contract. Gil Meche, that was one season, not 2 1/2. And he was injured and didn't want to go through another long period of rehab. Ideally, if it's going to be like 2011 again, Dunn retires and we can package Rios and whatever we have of value to dump him....leaving only Peavy.

But supposedly it was said SOMEWHERE that he would get at least 2 seasons to clean this mess up...yes?

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Sep 28, 2011 -> 06:54 AM) I have been on the fence about that one. Maybe I will check it otu. I'm not sure it more than merely a very good movie, but Damon and Blunt's "connection/chemistry" made it nearly great.

QUOTE (Felix @ Sep 28, 2011 -> 06:59 AM) I'd say it was a lot of the baseball stuff that bugged me and stopped me from really getting into. I understand some of the changes they made from the book to make it transfer to the screen better, but still. One of the first scenes in the movie is Beane flying to Cleveland to have trade talks with the Indians. If you're trying to sell me the idea that the A's had no money to spend, then don't have the main character wasting money on flights to start a trade conversation. That would NEVER happen. A GM doesn't fly across the country to ask another GM "Hey, how about this OF?" I realize this sort of gripe is pretty petty, but it's one of those things that stops you from buying the environment they're selling, which really impacts the experience. Wasn't that about trading for Ricardo Rincon? Hardly the kind of thing you'd fly thousands of miles for if you were charging for soda pop in the clubhouse (also not a true story that was inserted to make the A's look more like Charlie Finley's A's). Then again, once upon a time, one infamous team did trade Brian Giles for Rincon, lol. That was probably worth a Gulfstream/G6 flight.