caulfield12

Nix, Getz=more value to Sox than a return in trade, like a pitcher. Nix can't play everyday, he's a platoon player in all likelihood against LHP. If all three were on the market (including Fields), Josh would bring the most back in return, by far.

In terms of getting a running start, coming into the ball instead of falling back and catching on his heels or flat footed, DAMON/DEJESUS/Lance Johnson/Pierre are all WAY better than Dye. His "reputation" about a cannon arm made him lazy and get into some bad habits and he's never corrected them, and no team has really bothered to call him out on it, either. Unfortunately. It has cost us some extra bases and runs at times over the last five seasons.

Scott Gregor=not so smart as other beat writers Really, buying into the Dye "rocket arm" crap? Yes, when he played for the Braves, or Macon in 1994. I saw him then, because I was working with the Augusta GreenJackets. Only Jose Guillen, Vlad Guerrero and Ruben Rivera (before his injury problems) had better throwing arms. But he hasn't been a great thrower or above average RF or 8-10 years, before the broken leg. And he catches every ball flat footed and never gets a good running start into it...heck, Pods has better throwing fundamentals, or Juan Pierre.

Everything in this economic market is about "value" Mr. Allen. You wouldn't say who cares about the market value of your house, would you? Every homeowner, and team owner, wants to get the best possible value (buy low, sell high) out of his assets....there's "worth," like Roy Halladay, and then there's what another team is actually willing to part with him to acquire said asset. The Mona Lisa might be "worth" $1-2 billion USD, but only if someone was/is willing to part with their money for Mr. DaVinci's painting. Alexei Ramirez and Gordon Beckham are "worth" more than any position players on our team...along with Carlos Quentin. Gordon Beckham becomes a much more valuable asset playing above-average defense up the middle, hitting 50 doubles, 20 homers with a .300 AVG and 100 RBI's than he does as a corner IF or corner OF. Which is also why Flowers is worth a ton if he can catch and Viciedo if he can play 3B....and Danks/Mitchell if they can leadoff and play CF well.

Who preferably hits LH...so that means the likes of Dunn and/or Abreu, Blalock could also be brought in for 3B with Beckham shifting, giving us a very very potent offensive line-up. Will probably see either Kotsay OR Wise around next year, too.

Not taking into consideration the POSSIBLE money from the Phils for THOME ("secret" Gillick handshake deal on the option year) and the hefty insurance contract we just took on (transferred) from SD with Jake Peavy's contract. And Viciedo, although he's not counted as part of our roster...it's money the organization has taken out of Swisher's contract to pay someone else that could have been on the MLB roster. We've also added Castro and Pena, so the team has gotten more and more expensive as the season has worn on, NOT cheaper.

QUOTE (South Side Fireworks Man @ Aug 3, 2009 -> 08:15 PM) Quoted for truth. I'll vote for Getz and Carrasco, and D. Wise, just to aggravate everyone completely.

Marte might have beeen our closer for a couple of weeks, at most. And Gordon wasn't IT for very long either, that season. You forgot to mention Bill James, he had some very decent years with the White Sox, especially 1983.

QUOTE (WCSox @ Aug 3, 2009 -> 07:22 PM) I'd rather pay Jenks (or another accomplished closer) for 2010 than pay Webb to be a 5th starter. Assuming that Peavy's healthy later this summer, our rotation is in pretty freaking good shape. But our bullpen's going to have some serious holes this winter. Mike Gonzalez (32) Kevin Gregg (32) Trevor Hoffman (42) Fernando Rodney (33) Rafael Soriano (30) Jose Valverde (30) Billy Wagner (38) - $8MM club option with a $1MM buyout Pretty sure Franklin will be back with STL, and wouldn't want him in the AL anyway.

We're 5-7 against them now...it's not like it's a 2001-2004 spread in this match-up. It always ends up almost exactly even when all the home and away games are completed.

QUOTE (WCSox @ Aug 3, 2009 -> 07:17 PM) Oh, I'd love Victor Martinez. But wouldn't Konerko have veto rights on a trade? And would Kenny even want to deal The Captain? His new deal calls for him to receive $12 million annually. Chicago agreed to a limited no-trade clause that states he can't be dealt to six specified teams without his permission.

But NOT having a fifth starter can keep you out of post-season, surely. See Rogers, Kenny (2003) and look at the results of our fifth starters that season. It was truly abysmal/atrocious/egregiously bad.

Presenting the only thing better than AJ throwing.... Victor Martinez in the middle of the White Sox offense, sharing C/1B/DH with Flowers, Paulie and JD. LH bat problem solved. Victor isn't worth as much at 1B (see Mauer discussion), but if we could trade Jenks and Konerko (sell high again)....wouldn't we be better off with Victor Martinez, Flowers and Dye and using the leftover money for CF/leadoff/LF/RF? You know Ozzie and KW are very familiar with Victor Martinez. Interesting thought. Don't think the Red Sox will bring him back...well, depends on what happens with Varitek, I suppose. But don't think Francona wants Martinez as their 60-75% of the PT starting catcher.

Miguel Olivo for one year and Flowers' mentor....lol. Not sure that's the greatest idea in the world, but KW and Ozzie are very familiar with Miguel, fwiw. Jason Kendall would make a good mentor, too, IMO.

QUOTE (Pumpkin Escobar @ Aug 3, 2009 -> 05:47 PM) Yes to Jenks. No to Webb. Why to this being tied into the same thread? Jenks gets talked about enough in every other thread. We probably have to open up an additional bit of breathing room in our payroll...not sure. Jenks is going to be around $8 million next year. The other options are trading Konerko (unlikely) and/or saving money bringing back Dye and/or Thome ($6-8 million but not $11-13 million as they're currently paid)....don't think we will ever get from out under the Linebrink contract now. OTOH, if you had THAT historically amazing rotation (Peavy/Buehrle, Webb, Floyd and Danks), it would be a crying shame to risk so many blown saves turning the game over to Thornton or Pena at the end of games. Someone like Byrd, Doug Davis...Garland, etc., is more likely for the back of the rotation unless they think Hudson and/or Torres are ready. Duchscherer has been mentioned a lot around here. Who else is rehabbing or struggling with health issues? Smoltz? Glavine? Mulder?

I MEANT FOR THE 2009/10 OFFSEASON...heading into the following April. Looks like he MIGHT be out until next May/June, possibly.

http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20...sp&c_id=mlb The DBacks have an $8.5 million dollar option for next year or a $2 million buyout. Would guess they would probably keep him and risk that if they're not in contention that they could trade him next year, kind of like the M's did with Bedard this year instead of letting him go and not getting anything back in return (especially when M's fans have to be reminded of how that Bedard trade cost them future contention in the AL West for many years).

Tigers rip into top pitching prospect Tillman....runner already in as Polanco doubled Granderson in, still no outs. This is going to be one of those LONG, LONG games. 5-1 O's.

Detroit is 31-16 at home, BALT wins about 1/3rd of their road games (16-34, or 32%). Verlander versus Tillman. 2.17 ERA in his last 18 starts. Verlander gives up 4 runs (HR by Roberts) and loads the bases with NOBODY OUT. JUST WOW. JINXED. Not the best odds in the world of us getting to 1 GB going into TUES. Which means BALT is guaranteed to win, one of those "trap" betting games. MINNEAPOLIS (AP)—The Minnesota Twins were proud of the way their young group of starting pitchers exceeded expectations and brought them to the brink of the playoffs last season. This year, it’s the same rotation that’s holding the Twins back in an AL Central race that remains wide open. “Our starters, it’s going to start with them,” manager Ron Gardenhire said, looking ahead at the season’s last two months. “They have to suck it up and get on a roll for us.” What stings the Twins the most is that deep, steady starting pitching has been their hallmark over eight seasons with Gardenhire in charge—the primary reason why they’ve won four division titles during that time. Thanks to Scott Baker(notes), Nick Blackburn(notes), Francisco Liriano(notes), Glen Perkins(notes) and Kevin Slowey(notes), they were one victory from a fifth last year. Because of injuries to and inconsistency from the same quintet this summer, Minnesota has been unable to sustain any significant winning streaks despite the usual exceptional production from All-Stars Joe Mauer(notes), Justin Morneau(notes) and Joe Nathan(notes) and a breakout season by designated hitter Jason Kubel(notes). Baker is the oldest member of the rotation at 27, but there’s a standard of success in place from last year that’s not being met. “We have the guys that are capable of winning,” Morneau said. “In the division, nobody’s really running away with it. If we can figure out what we need to do, hopefully the hitters can stay hot. If we keep doing what we’re doing and the pitching staff gets a little confidence, we should be a tough team. But until we start doing it at the same time, it’s going to be tough.” Baker became the ace last season, parlaying an 11-4 record and a 3.45 ERA into a new $15.25 million, four-year contract, but he has regressed in 2009. Thus, the Twins have been without the streak-stopping, momentum-creating pitcher who can consistently throw eight innings or even spin a four-hit shutout when they need it most. “I’ll vote for that,” Gardenhire said, after a 13-4 loss to the Los Angeles Angels on Sunday left the Twins three games behind the Detroit Tigers and 1 1/2 back of the Chicago White Sox in the Central. Both the Tigers (Jarrod Washburn(notes)) and White Sox (Jake Peavy(notes)) made trades last week for front-line starters. Johan Santana(notes), sent to the Mets, has never been missed by Minnesota as much as he is now. “We kind of have a lot of guys on the same level right now, as far as experience and that kind of thing,” Morneau said. “When we expect a lot out of them, it’s tough. It’d be nice to have that one guy that’s been there for eight or nine years, but we don’t and we just have to make those adjustments.” Blackburn was rolling until recently hitting a big bump. Baker has been faring better, but only after a bad start. Slowey started 10-2, but he’s having season-ending surgery to fix a bone chip in his wrist. Performances by Perkins and Liriano have been all over the place, ending in the fifth inning far too many times. Rookie Anthony Swarzak(notes) has filled in capably, but he’s also trying to find some consistency. Early exits by the starters have overworked the relievers and overexposed a lack of depth in the bullpen, too. For the Twins to stay in contention and avoid wasting these exceptional contributions from Mauer and Morneau, the rotation must find some extra mental toughness to go with those fastballs and sliders down the stretch. Gardenhire seemed to be issuing them such a challenge after Sunday’s latest deflating defeat. “You have to suck it up in this game,” the skipper said. “No one’s going to feel sorry for you. No one. We have to find a way, and we have to figure out how we can get people out and get the ball where we need to get it.” Mauer can help from behind the plate, but only to a point. “Those guys want to go out there and do well, and sometimes they try to overthrow and miss their spots,” he said. Perkins, pounded by the Angels for eight earned runs in four-plus innings, maintained a public confidence in his own pitches as well as the ability of his fellow starters to get back on track. “We do need to get on a roll. There’s no doubt about that,” Perkins said. yahoo.com/sports

Inside the Padres' financially strapped offices at Petco Park, there was a huge sigh of relief. General manager Kevin Towers had a mandate -- since last November -- to get Peavy off the Padres' books. Still, some people close to that organization believe Williams didn't need to part with so much talent to get Peavy at this point. ''The financial relief alone might have been enough to get it done,'' a Padres insider said. ''Maybe you dress it up with some bodies. But [the Sox] had a lot more leverage. [The Padres] had no other options.'' DeLuca, Sun-Times Sports

Obviously KW bought himself some leeway with 2005, lol. However, the argument is that the Padres would have given up Peavy for maybe even Richard and Russell or Poreda and Russell...as Towers was under orders from the ownership group to clear the contract, plus Peavy was hurt and there were no other suitors, so the argument goes why would KW offer the SAME package when he could have lowered it (and maybe it was changed from Hudson to A. Carter instead) and still made Towers happy just to get out from under the financial burden for the Moores' divorce situation. I guess we'll never know...and I'm not worried about Poreda or Russell ever becoming anything, but Richard and Carter definitely might. Still, you have to give up talent to get a Cy Young winner (albeit injured) in his prime.

QUOTE (Tony82087 @ Aug 3, 2009 -> 04:20 PM) 100% false. Were you around any White Sox message board from 2002-2004??? Everyone was obsessed with bringing up that Todd Ritchie for Wells/Fogg/Lowe deal and shoving it down KW's throat. It easily dwarfed Wise and Anderson as topics/issues of discussion.

AccuScore uses past player performance statistics to describe how players perform under different environmental, match–up, and game situation conditions. Using projected starting lineups AccuScore simulates each game of the 2009 Season one at bat at a time. By repeating the simulation 10,000 to 20,000 times per game AccuScore calculates the precise probability each team has of winning each game, winnin g their division, making the playoffs, advancing in the playoffs and winning the World Series. Here’s the AccuScore.com analysis of the 2009 MLB season after 17 weeks of play. visit AccuScore.com for daily updates to the season forecast and all game forecasts updated twice a day. AMERICAN LEAGUE The Chicago White Sox are 1.5 games back, and even though they had a 3-4 week their chances of winning the division and making the playoffs improved 10 percentage points. The White Sox were underdogs in all four games vs the Yankees and by winning three of four games they were projected to lose, they were able to turn a bad week that started with getting swept by the Twins into a good week. The forecast also assumes Jake Peavy(notes) will be able to play in September. Should Peavy’s status change it will have a significant impact. The Tigers improved their chances by acquiring Jarrod Washburn(notes), but they went 2-4 the past week which cost them seven percentage points. The Twins got bombed by the Angels at home which hurt their playoff chances. The Angels’ 5-1 week helped them take the lead in the AL in both current record and their chance of making the playoffs (up 6.7 percent). The offense has been red-hot even without Torii Hunter(notes). The Texas Rangers did their best to keep pace with a 5-2 week, improving their chances by six percentage points. Last week the Rangers made the playoffs as a wild card in 18 percent of simulations, but now they have a 23 percent chance of being a wild card thanks to the losses by key wild-card competitors. The Boston Red Sox parlayed an easy schedule into a 5-2 week and improved their playoff chances by six points. The Yankees dropped minus-5 points because they lost three of four to the White Sox and were just 3-4 for the week. The Yankees and Red Sox play a key series starting Thursday which could end up dictating the AL East (YES, EVERY GAME IN THIS SERIES SHOULD BE DECLARED A NATIONAL HOLIDAY AND TELEVISED BY GAMMONS AND ERIN ANDREWS). The Rays were 3-4 and their chances dropped nearly eight points. The dropoff was especially severe because they lost two of three at home the Yankees and they lost Sunday to the Royals – a game they were favored to win at an over 70 percent rate. AMERICAN LEAGUE WEEK 17 REVIEW PLAYOFF % CHANCE TEAM 27–Jul 3–Aug % DIFF WIN DIV Chicago White Sox 45.3% 55.4% 10.1% 54.4% Los Angeles Angels 86.0% 92.7% 6.7% 85.8% Boston Red Sox 62.5% 68.5% 6.0% 39.2% Texas Rangers 31.5% 37.0% 5.5% 14.0% Baltimore Orioles 0.0% 0.0% 0.0% 0.0% Cleveland Indians 0.0% 0.0% 0.0% 0.0% Kansas City Royals 0.0% 0.0% 0.0% 0.0% Oakland Athletics 0.0% 0.0% 0.0% 0.0% Toronto Blue Jays 2.6% 0.4% –2.2% 0.1% Minnesota Twins 15.6% 13.3% –2.3% 13.0% Seattle Mariners 5.0% 1.0% –4.0% 0.2% New York Yankees 85.8% 80.7% –5.1% 55.4% Detroit Tigers 40.6% 33.6% –7.0% 32.6% Tampa Bay Rays 25.0% 17.4% –7.6% 5.3%

I love Lady Gaga. Seriously, Chris Getz WILL NOT prevent the White Sox from winning the World Series in 2009 or any future year. Josh Fields as a starter definitely had a more negative impact on our results for 2 months (April/May) as a starter...there's no argument. Now if we don't make the playoffs, it's certainly not ONLY due to Fields, there's also many other earlier offensive deficiencies like Lillibridge, Wise/Anderson/Owens, Corky Miller and Getz was very inconsistent as well, but still better than Fields from any type of "all-around" broad/general view of who's the better baseball player for THIS Sox team.

I do think the point that Richard might have a very good NL career (like Kip Wells did for awhile, and Josh Fogg, too) while the White Sox are continuing to struggle to man the 5th spot (of course, that's only WITHOUT a Peavy return in 2009) can later be used against KW. But, once again, that's only if Peavy blows out his elbow or something. And the insurance/contract we picked up from the Padres mitigates the risk factor, just like we got back about $5-6 million instead of eating David Wells' 2001 contract completely. Giving up RUSSELL was nothing at all...just a name that makes the trade look bigger, and possibly sad to those wallowing in 06/07 top prospect lists for the White Sox and believing he was actually a legit, TOP 10 prospect with most other organizations. Basically a one-pitch pitcher with so-so mechanics and much less valuable as a reliever than limited starter (like Poreda, except RHed). But if two of those three pitchers (think of Carter like a lesser version of Faustino DeLosSantos) excel, KW will never hear the end of it....UNLESS, of course, we win the World Series. In which case KW is back to being a genius and maybe having his own "revenge" book to answer Moneyball with Denzel as KW. LOL.