caulfield12

QUOTE (Kenny Hates Prospects @ Nov 8, 2008 -> 04:21 AM) I'd much rather NOT see the Sox buy high on a soon-to-be 30-year-old former AAAA platoon player coming off of a career year in the National League. If we deal with the Phils and Victorino isn't an option as part of a package then I want the deal centered around Carrasco, but only if the Sox think Carrasco can become a #2-3 starter and pitch out of the back of the rotation in 2009. Personally I'd like to see us deal Javy, Jenks, Dye, and shop one of Swisher/Konerko in order to re-stock the farm, mainly with pitching prospects but also with a CF prospect to put alongside Danks. Shop Dotel too if someone wants to overpay knowing they'll most likely get Type A compensation after '09. If a corner OF spot opens up as a result then the Sox can pursue some guys who may come cheaper talent-wise via trade (meaning we deal more of the Shelby, Richard types and not the Poreda, Beckham, Danks types), like Randy Winn or Brian Giles. Or, sign a guy like Ibanez or Dunn to throw in LF for one year and take over for Thome as a LH DH after '09. Maybe even bring Griffey back as a LF/RF for one year since he wouldn't cost us any draft picks, or do the same with Juan Rivera or Garrett Anderson on a low base as part of a LF platoon. Either way, re-stock the farm and at the same time bring in a couple pitchers who can develop at the back of the rotation while also giving Fields a shot. Because of the strides our new core has made, we should be able to do something similar in '09 that we did in '08, which is partially rebuild yet still remain competitive. That way, going into 2010, we'll have a lot of money to spend, a very young team, and a much better farm system. I think we need to create a better foundation for the franchise to stand on so that we can compete for the next 10-20 years. Maybe I'm just naive, but the intentions behind the last two drafts, plus all the minor league changes including the discovery of the scouting and player development scandal, plus the moves Kenny has made since the 06-07 offseason to create younger core, all has me optimistic about the future. We just need to continue along those lines. That's all fine and good, but KW has always used the minor league system largely as a talent pool for his trades to improve the 25 man roster...at least up until this point. If you trade Jenks and Dotel, that puts an awful lot of pressure on Thornton and Linebrink, and Scott's "iffy" to me coming into 2009 as a reliable pitcher like the first four months of 08. I mean, we all know that we still have a long ways to go to really have a youthful team, and there hasn't been much recentl mention of AJ aging and his throwing problems (yes, 60-70% of it is the pitchers)...which is another major concern as well. If you trade Vazquez, Dye and Swisher/Konerko...well I just don't realistically see how you can compete in 2009...when the Twins will be better, the Indians and Tigers SHOULD be better and the Royals also are making strides. I agree fundamentally with what you're arguing, I just don't think KW is ready to do that quite yet. I do think he will see what is available in exchange for Jenks, Dye and Vazquez, not to mention Swisher and Konerko...but whether he actually pulls the trigger is another question altogether. In the back of his mind, KW knows if he did essentially the same thing with Buehrle and Dye in 2007, he wouldn't have gotten a Division Championship this year.

QUOTE (CaliSoxFanViaSWside @ Nov 7, 2008 -> 09:44 PM) So what names from TB do we hear mentioned in trade rumors ? I hear Crawford mentioned right now the most. He's due the most money. If the Rays spent it will be to reward the young core not on a declining outfielder with a salary higher than any of it's current players even if it is for only a year. I'd say that's being smart about it. Still I won't deny it's possible of course just not probable. Like I said originally "doubtful . Besides the "pipe dreams" of Upton, there's Reid Brignac, Rocco Baldelli and taking on Fernandez Perez as a fourth OF to inject some more speed/defense. Lots of ideas about trading for Edwin Jackson/Niemann and E. Morlan.

QUOTE (joeynach @ Nov 7, 2008 -> 07:55 PM) Beltran makes 18.5 Mil in 09, 10, and 11 then becomes a free agent. He also has a full no trade clause. Plus I dont even want Beltran all the much. Hes a good run producer but why should we take on 55.5 Mil for 3 years for a guy that hits about .275-.280 with 30 Hrs. Thats basically Dye's career averages. If we trade Jenks and Vazquez I want Reyes at least. Unfortunately, the price would be Jenks/Danks or Jenks/Floyd, although I don't think KW would pull the trigger on a Danks move. For Floyd, probably. Just my sense. Maybe because at mid-season this year, there were a lot of rumors that Floyd was being included in multiple packages...that KW was trying to "sell high" and take advantage of Floyd's hot start as quickly as possible before he cooled off. Still, it's a very, very illogical thing to trade a young/affordable pitcher with Floyd's stuff and seeing how much he's already improved under the tutelage of Cooper and Guillen. Trading Javier, once again we would have to roll the dice on two spots in the rotation and hope that Danks/Floyd repeat. I don't like the odds of that, no matter how well Reyes plays...it almost always comes down to pitching. But year, with Hanley Ramirez and Sizemore, he's one of the most exciting players in the game today and it would be great to see a better version of "I love to watch Ray run." Heck, Harrelson would almost forget about Carlos Gomez, except when we played the Twins.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Nov 7, 2008 -> 07:38 PM) Yes I meant Ozzie's first season, 2004 was when Frank and Maggs went down. In 2003, Loaisa was awesome. Colon was solid, Buerhle started out horribly and rebounded. Garland was what he normally was Koch blew. The White Sox were in first place September 14 when they took the rubber game at Fenway when CLee got stuck on the Green Monster. With Koch being as bad as he was, he was replaced by Flash Gordon, Foulke was outstanding with the A's. The White Sox may have won that division. They had a solid team, but fell apart late. Their bullpen could have been Sullivan, Gordon, Foulke and an unbelievably good Marte. If they won, Ozzie may still be coaching 3rd somewhere. As far as Contreras, the White Sox did say when and if he returns he most likely will be used out of the bullpen. Too many memories of that time... 1) Buehrle begging to start at Yankee Stadium (when we were in a position to sweep) and Cotts wetting the bed and letting the Yanks off the hook 2) Foulke's decision to "voluntarily demote" himself from the closer role and KW's determination to get a fireballer 3) The lack of depth brought about by the Ritchie deal and a plethora of injuries and non-performance from our "waves of pitching" (Rauch, Wright, Barcelo, Parque, etc.) 4) The fact that Minnesota was smart enough to sign Kenny Rogers to a very cheap deal...and I'm convinced that the 5th starter's spot was one of the key differences that year. KW didn't rectify that until 2005 with the emergence of McCarthy and the acquisition of El Duque to go with Jose, Freddy, Mark and Garland. 5) Maybe it wasn't this season, but Koch serving up a game loser to Carl Crawford at the Trop into the RF seats around the 4th of July. I still don't think that Manuel could have led us to the World Series with the way that players like Magglio and Carlos Lee were not responding to his leadership, and the growing problems that were also evidenced in the clubhouse behaviors of Jimenez, Royce Clayton and Kenny Lofton.

It would have been nicer had we noticed Curtis Granderson in our own backyard, almost literally. Having him as our CFer would have solved a few of our problems...unfortunately, not leadoff...but he's a very, very good player. Not Sizemore-esque, but the next tier down. The strikeouts are the worst part of his game, and nullify (like they do with Chris Young) some of his other attributes.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Nov 7, 2008 -> 08:23 PM) I'd say Mark Buehrle. Jim Thome. IIRC, both have pretty complete NTC's. I see Jenks going before Buehrle. I don't think KW is 100% confident he can bank on repeats from Danks and Floyd in 2009. Maybe. He is more likely to get predictability out of Buerhle and Vazquez IMO. Look at Cliff Lee. I'm not saying Danks will repeat his career path, but it's an interesting comparison. Of course, there was the "downswing" that came before he emerged last year as the best AL lefty, at least for one season. Floyd, while he was our stopper in the second half...it seems his ERA kept creeping up and up and up over the year, and part of that's natural, he pitched so many great games the first couple of months out of the blocks. You had the feeling he would end up around 4.50 if the season continued another month though. If you do trade Mark, do think KW is ready to look at Danks as a 1 and Floyd as a 2? I think the only reason would be if you traded Jenks/Buehrle and either Konerko or Dye and invested that money in someone like Sabathia as the #1, and I would be seriously shocked if that happened. Other than CC, there's no true "ace" pitcher out there that justifies spending north of $15 million per season. And no, while AJ Burnett has "ace" stuff, I don't for a second put him in the Halladay/Sabathia/Santana class.

Well, we also have the option of flip-flopping him with Quentin/Swisher as well. I think JD has a lot of pride about playing RF, and most of it comes from his arm, or at least the reputation of it. When I saw him play in Macon with the Braves in 1994, he had one of the best arms I ever saw in person (at the minor league level) of anyone, with just a couple of exceptions. Vladimir Guerrero and Ruben Rivera (before injury). Maybe a notch or two below Jose Guillen. It was never a "laser-like" arm like a Clemente or Vladdy or Bo Jackson, but solid/strong/accurate. Sosa, in his "Panther/White Sox/skinny" days, would be another good comparison. Most athletes don't know when it's "time" I guess. I would be surprised if he had very much experience in LF in his entire career...maybe a little research would back that up. Can he make the transition? Sure, yes, he's a good athlete still...just like he theoretically could shift to 1B. But it won't happen until 2010 (if he's still with the club).

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Nov 7, 2008 -> 08:03 PM) If the Sox were to trade Jenks, I doubt Thornton would be the closer. If they didn't acquire anyone, I think it would be Dotel. Don't laugh. For the majority of his outings in 2008 he was unhittable. For several he was meat. He hadn't pitched that much in several years. I think he'll be more consistent in 2009. With Poreda on the horizon and Contreras when and if he comes back moving to the bullpen, I think if KW can get a huge return, he would deal Jenks. There are too many things pointing against KW wanting to risk huge money on Jenks, who is suddenly going to start making money. Screw in the elbow, declining K rate, expanding waistline. While he still gets things done at a great clip, he seems to make it more interesting now. To get 3.5 years like he pitched out of a waiver claim and then turn that into a nice package before you really had to pay him anything isn't all bad. KW has done a good job getting rid of pitchers. The only one to really bite him in the ass was Foulke. Hawk always talks about how Ozzie might have had another WS title if Maggs and Frank stayed healthy in 2003. Ozzie may never have been the White Sox manager had Manuel had Foulke closing games instead of Koch for most of 2003 Are you sure you're not confusing years? Weren't Thomas and Ordonez out for most of 2004 and not 2003? I'm not sure...at one point around mid-season, after we'd chased down KC, we looked really good for about 2-3 weeks, but it's not like we were much over 10-15 games above .500. Maybe we had the most "talented" team in the majors then, but not the best overall. Cotts was getting some starts. Loiaza really wore down in the second half...and Colon was never really 100% motivated to pitch for us except when he felt like it. But yes, Koch was a huge issue, too. I don't think you can assume Contreras will come back into the bullpen...maybe. It seems with the way he prepares and needs time to get warmed up (like El Duque), it wouldn't be the best idea. Yeah, theoretically, his stuff would be even better over an inning or two. He could really let go of that fastball, and throwing everyday could actually have the affect of getting him not to overthrow the forkball. Then again, that forkball would lead to a lot of WP's in late-inning situations. As we know, he would be absolutely atrocious holding on runners. Then again, hard to be be worse than Gavin and Jenks in this area. Maybe it's something he could improve upon...but he's always had a pretty slow overall delivery to the plate, and that won't change, unless he fundamentally changes something with his delivery to compensate for the achilles', in which case he'll probably end up with an arm or shoulder problem and be done. Somebody mentioned Teixeira...haven't seen him pitch. I know Link did well but really isn't under any serious consideration internally. I think you have to look at Thornton, Dotel and Adam Russell. That's where I would begin the search at least.

The option for 2010 makes him a lot more attractive IMO. If he has a really good season and is basically injury-free, why wouldn't another team want to keep him? There are quite a few outfielders making more money that are much less productive than JD, and he comes with the added bonus of being great in the community, with kids and is a quiet/understated clubhouse leader/veteran presence. While Jenks, Buerhle and the Big 4 would be more valuable on the open market (maybe even Vazquez), I don't think we'll see him traded. KW knows that his leading the majors in homers since 2005 from his position gives him a net "plus" at that position every year. Unless he gets injured or his defense/range become so atrocious he's a problem, which certainly wasn't the case in 2008.

But they do get a bigger share of the pool (overall) if they're selling a higher percentage of caps than say, every team but the Yankees, Cubs and Red Sox? It's split exactly evenly? I can't remember. I do know they of course don't have to share the profits of merchandise/hats sold at US Cellular, but those in-stadium purchases now probably amount to a tiny overall percentage of the worldwide sales of White Sox hats/caps. It's a small world these days. I bought my last fitted New Era Sox cap in Hong Kong.

Brooks Boyer is salivating right now. Every time Obama is photographed wearing White Sox gear, it means purchases will be made in Africa, Asia, South America...all around the world, for those who see his presidency as a beacon of hope and fresh start for the US in the world again after 9/11. I wouldn't be surprised if the upswing meant additional millions over the next four-eight years in additional revenue streams...and even more and more rap stars, hip hop artists will be wearing Sox gear again. Just imagine all the young kids in Africa/Asia growing up with White Sox gear, like they have Michael Jordan jerseys now. Pretty cool.

QUOTE (kyyle23 @ Nov 6, 2008 -> 09:09 AM) Who is going to fix Penny's shoulder? Coop? Why Dr. James Andrews, of course. Or Dr. Frank Jobe.

QUOTE (whitesoxfan101 @ Nov 6, 2008 -> 12:27 AM) You worked for Arthur Marshall? That's cool. Nicest guy I worked with: Herschel Walker (he donated his own time to be a keynote speaker, flew down at his own cost to Augusta....) Worst: Tie, Deion Snaders and Michael Irvin Unexpected: Jose Guillen. He helped lead us (GreenJackets) the 1995 SAL Championship. He was already kind of a legend in the system in his teens because of his arm from RF. He could do everything but run well. He almost got kicked out of the system before he ever made it out of extended spring training and DSL ball. Not a bad guy at all, he wants to win, I got along with him really well because I was able to help him out a little bit and I speak Spanish.

QUOTE (Brian @ Nov 5, 2008 -> 08:18 PM) His Facebook status... I worked for an African-American NFL football player (wide receiver from UGA who played for the Broncos and Giants from 92-97) and he was VERY much a Republican. Most of them wouldn't admit to not voting for Obama, but I would guess 75% of them vote Republican because the main issue they care about is taxes. Especially this last election, when Obama was very open/honest about taxing those in the $250K and above bracket at a higher rate. It would be interesting to see which players (NFL, NBA, MLB) voted, and for whom.

QUOTE (Wanne @ Nov 5, 2008 -> 11:22 PM) I think definitely replace Q with Swisher. Hopefully Q's learned his lesson with what happened. Other than that I love the intensity...just control the outbursts that could cause yourself and physical harm (thus hurting the team). But Swish...I think he mentally had his head so far up has arse with a lack of self-confidence...it effected his overall game. Another prime candidate...Logan. If everybody recalls at the beginning of the year he was lights out...had a few bad outings and it was all downhill from there. Logan's a good call...just not sure if KW and Ozzie have thrown in the towel with him yet. Still, he can be showcased in the spring. He's not Sean Tracey...lots of teams are on the lookout for lefties who throw 92-94 mph out of the pen. Brian Anderson and Josh Fields also come to mind. I think Josh lets things outside of his control get to him too much, and he really seems affected by the media and perception. Didn't Thornton go to a sports psychologist? MacDougal, with his arm and stuff, would be yet another candidate.

We would be lucky to get EITHER Kennedy/Hughes OR Cabrera for Konerko IMO. Konerko has to prove he's healthy for an entire season to get the package you're discussing. The Yankees know how important pitching is to their future, they're shedding Pavano and possibly Mussina, so they can't afford to deal guys like Kennedy or Hughes yet. It's just too soon to give up on them. I think many teams are looking at the two years and $20+ million and taking a wait and see attitude with Paulie...he's in his 30's now, the "degenerative" hip rumors have been there since the Cameron deal. The last 6 weeks made it easier to trade Konerko, but still not at his optimum value. The rib cage injury really messed him up, then the hand, then the knee...he was beaten up and he's rededicated himself to getting into better shape and working out earnestly for the first time in his big league career. I think we keep Paulie. Dye/Swisher are the more logical moves. Wouldn't it be funny if we traded Swisher/Konerko and Giambi ended up playing 1B for the Sox? I think the only thing more unlikely would be Wil Cordero, Julio Franco or Albert Belle coming back to the Sox at 1B/DH.

QUOTE (Wanne @ Nov 5, 2008 -> 05:11 PM) I don't think anybody's questioning Javy's stuff...I think they're questioning his mental fortitude. This year it was giving back runs the next inning or giving up a big inning...as well as not coming through in the big games. Last year was he'd have a meltdown in either the 5th or 6th inning and taxing the bullpen every outing. I think with Javy...it's just mental. I honestly think Kenny would be spending good money to have an onstaff sports psychologist with some of the guys on the roster. Like some have said...if the return is good...sure. But I wouldn't deal him just to deal him. See the following, Doctor. Konerko Quentin Vazquez Just to name the three most susceptible to fighting themselves. Maybe Swisher, too. And one for KW and Ozzie.

While we're at it, whatever happened to Leo Mazzone? Maybe his influence in ATL was overrated, because he didn't do very much to turn around those Baltimore hurlers (well, he did get some results from Bedard before he flaked out). Daniel Cabrera is another intimidating physical presence that would/could be a Cooper project...as long as he still has his 94-98 MPH fastball. I'm starting to think the White Sox should pay Cooper more than Guillen or Barack Obama. He seems to be responsible for fixing almost every problem with our pitchers, not only at the MLB level, but also our top pitching prospects.

QUOTE (scenario @ Nov 4, 2008 -> 09:12 PM) Nah... It's Liriano, Baker, Blackburn, Slowey, with Perkins last. In fact, the Twins skipped Perkins a couple of times late in the year. Blackburn was very shaky down the stretch as well...it was a "lesser of two evils argument" to see who they'd skip over the final week, and they moved back Perkins who waited about one week to start in the infamous Friday-Sunday series against the Royals that doomed the Twins' chances ultimately. Baker might end up being the best pitcher on that staff unless Liriano's 94-96 MPH heater comes back along with a high 80's (not lower 80's) slider. Slowey is what Matt Guerrier was supposed to be when he was coming up with the Sox...Greg Maddux-Lite. The problem with Wakefield is he doesn't seem overly concerned about earning a high salary. He took well below market value (for a "reliable" innings eater) to stay in Boston so they could spend their money in other areas. IMO, he will probably retire, that's what the indications are...who knows...maybe watching Haeger for the last 5 years and Charlie Hough before him, KW will get the idea to at least make an inquiry. Wakefield would be adequate I guess, in a Paul Byrdish way...and probably put up better numbers than C. Richard over a full season as a starter. That said, having Vazquez and Wakefield at the back of the rotation puts a little more pressure on Danks, Buehrle and Floyd. Overall, not the worse scenario (with Poreda also waiting in the wings), but there are better ones out there (I hope). Brad Penny was mentioned in the other section. I'd rather take a risk on fixing Penny than one year of Wakefield at US Cellular.

We need to find a bonafide High A/AA catching prospect to step in 2010 or 2011 for AJ...or at least take about 40% of the playing time and then become a regular the following season. Francisco Hernandez looks about as close as this guy. Might have more confidence in Merullo or Karkovice.

If the White Sox were to acquire Penny, imagine the expectations that would be set? LOL. Cooper will have him looking like Loaiza Version 2003 in no time (while simultaneously adding to Poreda's arsenal and nurturing Danks/Floyd/Richard). Everyone would be saying the White Sox POTENTIALLY have the best rotation in the game of baseball...

QUOTE (kyyle23 @ Nov 4, 2008 -> 09:27 PM) The name of the game was to name better 4th starters, not to name better starters likely to be traded to the Sox Fine, but Slowey is the 3rd starter for the Twins, before Perkins and Blackburn. I would rank Saunders ahead of Weaver/Garland. You could argue that he was co-number 2 with E. Santana. Kershaw hasn't proven anything at all yet...Wellemeyer was released by the Royals not so long ago.

Tim Wakefield (he's more likely to retire than to pitch for the ChiSox) Andy Sonanstine (better, but more likely to get Edwin Jackson and what do we have to give up?) Kyle Davies (definitely not better than Javier) Kevin Slowey (MN would never trade him to us, but I would take him in a heartbeat) Rich Harden/Ryan Dempster (way too expensive) Todd Wellemeyer (mehhh) Joe Saunders (would be prohibitively expensive to acquire) Clayton Kershaw (Dodgers wouldn't dream of dealing him yet)

QUOTE (dww879 @ Nov 4, 2008 -> 01:00 PM) I read it this way as well. Seems that Kenny is trying to boost Poreda's trade value as he could in fact be the one being shopped. The sox already have two lefties in the rotation who will be around for a while, and another one who looked pretty decent in September in Richard. It's odd enough to have three lefties in a rotation, and I never have heard of having four. In other words I wouldn't be surprised if Poreda was a fifth starter next year, but I would be if it was for the sox. I don't think Clayton Richard and Poreda are comparable in any way in the front office's minds...we can't keep trading away our best prospects and not face a penalty with our payroll. Some of these young, pre-arbitration players (Anderson, Fields, Getz, Nix, Owens, Richard, Poreda, Broadway) have to start making a positive impact for the Sox. We got relatively lucky with Quentin, Alexei, Danks and Floyd, but we can't count on some many question marks breaking in a positive fashion every year. KW knows this as well as anyone.

QUOTE (striker62704 @ Nov 4, 2008 -> 10:47 AM) Kenny has never been a free agent type of GM. All of his moves are via the trade. So I don't see Frucal happening. Free Agent Signings: Dotel Linebrink Ramirez Dye Pierzynski Hall Trades: Thome Quentin Swisher Cabrera Thornton MacDougal Freddy Garcia Vazquez Danks Floyd Contreras Griffey David Wells?