caulfield12

QUOTE (Steve9347 @ Nov 21, 2008 -> 12:31 PM) Lineup by June in a perfect world (assuming Konerko, Dye, or Thome are not dealt, which would then make it even a more perfecter world!). SS Furcal CF Ramirez LF Quentin RF Dye DH Thome 1B Konerko C Pierzynski 3B Viciedo 2B Beckham Add Brian Roberts to Furcal...add Fields/Viciedo/Betemit as your 3B "platoon" That would have the makings of a monster line-up. I just don't think it's realistic until 2010. But pairing Roberts and Furcal in front of the bashers would scare a lot of teams, even the Twins.

QUOTE (maggsmaggs @ Nov 21, 2008 -> 12:22 PM) One year left on his deal, getting worse in all aspects of the game right now. No doubt he is a productive player, but an opportunity to get some more young pitching is something that you really can't pass up. But this is all speculation that Jackson is at the center of this deal, let's wait till we find out who they get (or if the deal even goes down) before we ask why trade Dye. Also, the $10 million that Dye makes could be turned into some other valuable chips. But isn't there a club option in that contract (Dye's) for 2010 as well...??? And a $1 million buyout? Furcal to SS, if we can't get a better CF (like Taveras), then we move Ramirez out there and let Getz/Nix/Betemit fight it out for 2B. OR we trade for Roberts, sign Furcal, Ramirez goes to CF and we have the most amazing offseason in recent memory... But I prefer pairing Furcal and Ramirez up the middle and not giving Alexei on the job training for yet another position...not to mention the adverse affect it might have on his offense.

QUOTE (103 mph screwball @ Nov 21, 2008 -> 12:15 PM) Why pay a king's ransom for Roberts if the Sox can just sign Furcal and keep Alexei at 2nd where we know he can play well. Roberts would look nice in a Sox uniform though. Because the O's will ask for Fields and Poreda...or more. However, we would be able to get Type A compensation back in one year...so the trade wouldn't be so bad, considering we could pick up two players of similar abilities/talent. It's just that Poreda and Fields are much closer to making an impact, and KW is all about THIS season. I think we can at least beat the package/s the Cubs offer if we go head-to-head with them for Roberts. That would be a PR coup for KW. I think 4 years and $42-46 million will get the Furcal signing done for some team. He has an offer for 3/39 but wants the added security of an additional year.

I just don't see getting Jackson AND a young/quality arm like Wade Davis for Dye. We'd have to give up something more than JD for two seasons. Pitching is like gold, and young/talented starting pitchers are like the Hope Diamond. You don't give them up without risking severe repercussions (see Kazmir deal). I think Friedman is smart enough to know that even if he appears to have an abundance of pitching, there's always injuries or slumps (Sonnanstine would be a good candidate, or Shields) and you can NEVER have too much pitching. When I hear Davis/Jackson for Dye, it makes me think of KW giving up Fogg AND Wells for Ritchie. It just has a tremendous risk of backfiring.

QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Nov 21, 2008 -> 11:55 AM) If you added Jenks to the equation you could have the potential for a pretty big blockbuster type deal. I'm guessing Wade Davis and Aybar or a prospect. Why has everyone fallen in love with W. Aybar? Didn't we just get Betemit? He's a nice role player to have on a team, but I don't ever envision either Betemit or Aybar getting 300 at-bats with the Sox unless there are major injuries.

QUOTE (fathom @ Nov 21, 2008 -> 11:51 AM) As much as I hated Swisher, there's no way Viciedo could put up Swisher's numbers if he started in 2009. Also, if we're counting on Marquez and Nunez to be on the 25 man roster coming out of ST, we're in trouble. I don't think Viciedo's better than Swisher NOW, of course...but Swisher didn't have a place to play going forward with the team as currently constituted. The only way would be bringing in Furcal/Figgins/Roberts and Swisher playing CF again, which isn't the greatest idea in the history of the world. OTOH, Viciedo fills a need at 3B potentially...then LF/RF/1B (to replace Konerko) or DH (to replace Thome) down the line. That's more valuable to the Sox than someone who can play just OF/1B/DH. I think there's a good chance Nunez might win the last spot in the bullpen. Marquez, any MLB contribution next year will be a pleasant surprise (or bad omen).

QUOTE (fathom @ Nov 21, 2008 -> 11:44 AM) Jackson would almost definitely be the main piece of the trade. I'm not a fan of his. I really don't like how most of these trades were involved with our making the 2009 team significantly weaker. KW's arguments so far: Betemit >>> Uribe (plus the savings can be allocated elsewhere) Viciedo >>> Swisher (plus the savings on this contract versus what we were going to pay Swisher) Marquez and Nunez have been added to the puzzle for depth in both the pen and rotation. We have two more intriguing options for 3B (at least a platoon with Betemit) in Viciedo and Betemit we didn't have before. We have yet to see what parting with Cabrera, Uribe, Crede and Swisher will bring back....part of the answer now becomes Viciedo.

Howell and Balfour are candidates to regress. They're not comfortable with Wheeler as their closer, and Price is moving back to the rotation. Percival has pretty much gone Todd Jones on them now. One would think that Poreda, Jenks or Thornton (maybe Dotel or Linebrink, although expensive for TB) would be their three main bullpen targets. I don't think to move a Carl Crawford they're going to settle on Lance Broadways, Adam Russells or Ehren Wassermans.

Seems like the opposite of a Braves trade, where they would get back young talent in return for a veteran they didn't want to pay anymore. Gone are the days when that franchise was free-spending. With Putz supposedly moving to the Mets as a closer at $5 million and the addition of Valverde to about 8 other past closers on the market, I think Jenks' value is not quite what we might have believed it to be...especially as his contract numbers dramatically escalate. I think to get that package (CF, Escobar, a catcher) we'd have to give up Jenks, Vazquez and Fields. By the way, with that move, you also open up two big holes in the back end of the rotation. Maybe, maybe, Richard or Poreda can do it...but at least Vazquez gives you 200 innings, strikeouts, a .500 record and consistent inconsistency.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3716458 I thought the deal was for five years, not four...interesting. Well, that really means KW is serious about them pushing this kid to make some contributions no later than 2010 but more probably in 2009. The kid becomes a free agent, essentially, at age 23/24...which is more or less what he was a week or so ago, I guess.

"Thankfully, we aren't talking about Ed Wade or Houston, but instead a sometimes sly, sometimes straight up questionable Kenny Williams." "inconsistent" Well, geez, what GM is always consistent and never deviates from a straight-forward path?? This criticism is a little bit ridiculous to me...I mean, some of these writers are still stuck in "Moneyball" thinking about KW and conveniently have already forgotten the 2005 season and some of his recent masterful moves (Quentin, Ramirez, Floyd, Danks, Thornton) because they're too bent on beating the two Swisher deals to death. Simply, the White Sox weren't doing well in either the draft (partly because of positioning, partly due to the department itself, Wilder, etc.) and they weren't getting much of anything out of Venezuela or the Domincan. Hence, we've explored two new markets in Japan and Cuba...and potentially more from Taiwan/China. Heck, Anderson Gomes is Brazilian, correct?

Don't forget El Duque the reliever in 2005.

QUOTE (heirdog @ Nov 21, 2008 -> 09:13 AM) I think a Konerko for Figgins + prospect is the move KW will look to do. Figgins will play 3B and lead-off and Fields would move over to 1B. Getz/Nix will play 2B and bat 2nd. Betemit will be the super utility player. I'd look for an Owens/Anderson platoon in CF. If KW can get solid prospects for Dye, he may look to do that as well in order to open the spot for Viciedo if he feels he's ready or else, Dye will be there again this year. Theoretically, Viciedo could be moved over to 1B to compete with Fields. However, I think this trade will never happen because it has been talked about to death...perhaps more than any trade possibility the last 3-4 years. I think KW goes with the much simpler option of Tier 2/3 prospects for Wily Taveras. I don't see an Owens/Anderson platoon as the best option when we could trade Broadway and/or Russell and get back Taveras. We also could move Alexei to CF, sign Furcal, play Getz/Nix/Betemit at 2B and Fields/Viciedo/Betemit at 3B. Furcal and Ramirez at the top of the line-up would be formidable, and Getz could also get some AB's in the second slot. That allows us to keep our power core of Quentin, Dye, Thome and Konerko together, with power also coming from Fields/Viciedo as well. I just don't think Figgins, with his age, recent history of injuries, declining stolen base numbers and average to below average defense is the answer for us.

www.startribune.com/sports/twins/34851324.html?elr=KArksi8cyaiUqCP:iUiD3aPc:_Yyc:aUU An update ... "The Twins haven't made a formal offer to free agent third baseman Casey Blake, but the sides have made progress discussing the framework of a potential deal -- length and general salary range -- his agent, Jim McDowell, said Thursday. McDowell said eight teams expressed interest in Blake but only four including the Twins have discussed a contract. ... 'One of the things that is so attractive about Minnesota is he knows the area, he knows the stadium, he knows the people," McDowell said. "All the feedback that I get from him about the Twins is positive.'"

Wished High A ball was an option, that's probably the most realistic barometer...especially when considering the infields and playing conditions aren't always optimal. That said, without El Duque and Contreras, we'd be nowhere...we probably wouldn't have gotten Ramirez and certainly not Viciedo, so that's been fortuitous. From my travels around the world, Japanese and Cubans really love the game of baseball as a nation almost to religious passion and certainly at a stronger level than the average American today. I think it's no coincidence that Japanese players (Takatsu/Iguchi) who play the game in the way it was meant to be played and then Cuban players, who merge the best physical talents/raw tools with a driving passion for the sport, that they're playing critical roles within our organization. Is it any surprise that Americans have been lackluster up until the last Olympics in international team sports, whereas the smaller countries treat even the WBC as if its life or death, with national pride and bragging rights on the line. The reason we don't get as excited about Americans is because these players have such compelling stories, like Contreras escaping on a boat, and Viciedo's journey to Free Agency has been an odyssey of sorts as well. Growing up in the poverty of San Pedro de Macoris or rural Venezuela, these players and their futures can almost be like life and death to their families...that's not the case with most Americans who play baseball and come from upper class or middle class backgrounds.

http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20...8&fext=.jsp MLB.com article http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseb...,1835283.column Phil Rogers' column...very interesting quotes, one scout comparing it to getting another high first round draft pick.

There's no way Viciedo will be the starting RF in 2009. He doesn't have nearly as much experience at that position as he does at 3B. Think Josh Fields/LF Experiment and 5X worse and that's what you might have...if he's in better shape and spends all ST working on the outfield, maybe...but they're not going to trade JD based on the supposition that Viciedo will be the starting RFer simply based on having a strong throwing arm (reportedly).

QUOTE (joeynach @ Nov 21, 2008 -> 03:14 AM) I do like the idea of getting the draft picks. I don't think "renting" one year of Brian Roberts is worth Poreda and Fields...and then there's always the possibility for any players in their 30's of having a serious injury or ending up like Furcal as a non-Type A. If we can get it done with the likes of Broadway, Richard, Russell, Getz, Allen and Shelby...then it could get more interesting. But I think the O's will want at least ONE of Poreda or Fields to make this work.

According to Chris Haft of MLB.com, the Giants are seriously interested in signing Orlando Hudson. The Giants have already signed Jeremy Affeldt and Haft says their big off-season plans could also include C.C. Sabathia, Edgar Renteria, Rafael Furcal and Juan Cruz. Kevin Frandsen, who's played mostly at second base, could play third if the Giants obtain Hudson. The Indians, Mets, Yankees and Dodgers all seem interested in Hudson too. Doesn't look like KW is in on either Furcal or Hudson at the present time. Not sure that's a surprise. Also, the Phil Rogers story on Viciedo says that the contract was for $10 million...not the initially reported $11 million. Also, it appears the Dodgers are very interested in signing O-Cabrera to a one or two year deal. Maybe it's about time to start the annual Chone Figgins rumor mill up again?

I've never seen either of these guys in person, how would you compare former Sox prospect C. Carter with Brandon Allen? Which one do you think will have the bigger major league impact? Projected numbers over a full season? A quick glance at his (Carter's) numbers remind me of Chris Young without the speed. Strikes out about 35% of the time (say Rob Deer/Cory Snyder), hits a lot of homers and will probably have a fairly low average, .230's-.250's. Maybe a little reminiscent of Dunn as a player, with obviously a lower ceiling?

Agree that the future looks encouraging. Of course, that can all change in the blink of an eye if we suffer one or two injuries to our starting rotation. Then we're going to be really scrambling and making deals of desperation, which is not KW's forte at all. I don't see Shelby and Armstrong as projected starters at the big league level quite yet...but I'm willing to have my mind changed on that subject. Go back to 2000/01. We were the #1 organization in all of baseball in terms of prospects. Buehrle wasn't even that highly touted. We had Crede and Rowand just emerging. Along with Buehrle, Kip Wells, Jon Rauch, Jon Garland, Matt Ginter, Lorenzo Barcelo, Aaron Myette, Jason Stumm, Danny Wright, Josh Fogg (he struggled just to make it at that time to #10 prospect), Brian West, Matt Guerrier, Corwin Malone. IT LOOKED, at the time, like a Braves-like dynasty with "waves and waves" of pitching. Almost none of it ever materialized, for various reasons. Borchard flamed out. Kip Wells regressed and underachieved. Mostly injuries doomed these guys, but also non-performance, too. That said...everything feels encouraging, if we can sign a band-aid fifth starter as insurance for Richard/Poreda and deal with CF and possibly find a 2B, too. With Betemit/Fields/Viciedo and Nix/Getz/Betemit, we at least have "decent" options at 3B and 2B. But the big question remains CF.

QUOTE (Tony82087 @ Nov 21, 2008 -> 12:05 AM) Not possible. It just isn't going to happen. I mean, if he was offered arbitration and for some reason couldn't find a deal he liked and had to come back....but I'm sure he will either sign before December or decline to accept, he has too much pride.

If BB signs Furcal, I think I will have a heart attack. I don't think, at his age, a four year contract is a good idea...we can find other options that are better fits. And I don't think the White Sox are that mystery team, although stranger things have happened. The fact he's not a Type A player and we don't lose a prime pick for signing him is one good reason to look at Furcal, but not enough IMO. Heck, we don't even know if KW will even end up offering arb. for O-Cab. All that talk from the time of the Garland trade about us getting the better of the compensation picks might all be for naught. Then again, you keep Cabrera, leave Ramirez at 2B or move him to CF, that's not the worst thing in the world either. All depends on how bad KW and Ozzie want to have him around again next season.

QUOTE (SoxFan1 @ Nov 20, 2008 -> 09:42 PM) KW is the man. Everyone complained that he wasn't getting the team any younger or that we hat a pitiful farm system. Look at the young core we have now... Quentin Beckham Alexei Fields Danks Floyd Viciedo Poreda Richard Getz/Nix Don't forget Jordan Danks, Bobby Jenks and "Young" Matt Thornton. Not young, but it feels like that because of how long he was germinating in the minors and underachieving. Swisher would have fit the profile too, but was never a good FIT for the White Sox. So throw Betemit at 27 into the mix as well. Not bad. And even Brian Anderson. It's pretty remarkable that we apparently have only had to weather one really down season, and that was 50% due to injuries and not rebuilding per se.

QUOTE (Kalapse @ Nov 20, 2008 -> 08:05 PM) Dye draws a walk twice as often as Victorino? Um, no. Dye has never been very good at drawing walks and last season was no exception he drew 44 walks in 590 ABs, Victorino drew 45 in 570 ABs. So they're going to post similar batting averages, walk about the same, Dye is going to provide much more power (about 100 points in SLG) and Victorino is going to provide much more speed. Shane plays an excellent CF while Dye plays a subpar right, Victorino is 7 years younger, under team control for 3 more years and will make a quarter the salary of Dye next season. Which is all the more reason Amaro would be silly to make the move, unless he thinks (like KW did with Rowand) that Victorino has peaked. I don't think that is the case here...and I also think Shane brings a lot more to the table than Aaron in terms of all-around play, but that's just me. It would have to be Dye and pitching (to replace Moyer?) that they would be looking for...probably Dye/Poreda for Victorino. Or Dye and Fields.