caulfield12

QUOTE (TCQ @ Nov 21, 2008 -> 11:03 PM) There is a difference in those whove done it and those who havent. Theres also a difference between those who havent and those who will no longer. It would be a no brainer to make the kind of trade you commented on because with all of the potential that is in that package it is a risk one could live with. Vazquez fell apart under pressure and is extremely erratic. The point that he pitches 200 innings a year is moot due to his performance. Trading Jenks would be a very smart move as well if that was the package we got back because i can almost guarentee that he will not be on that same list in the next few years. He has a bolt in his arm and a declining k rate. People need to stop being so pro jenks just because he is a fan favorite. It is a business, and in this business the save is the most overrated stat. I know its not always easy to find the right guy to close but for every situation that there is a bad closer someone like JJ Putz (Two years ago), George Sherrill(This year), or Chad Cordero (Three years ago) comes out of no where to be spectacular. No one that pitches 60 innings a year should be guarded so heavily if he could yield that kind of return. Or Hermanson (2005), Shingo for half a season in 2004.

Let's split the difference and call it 4/56. Still way too much, and too many years at this point in his career.

QUOTE (BearSox @ Nov 21, 2008 -> 04:40 PM) Fields has a great arm... however, that's all he has going for him at third base as he has that problem with his hands turning into stone and all. Maybe I'm going more off his days at OSU...he couldn't thrown the ten yard down and out to the wide side of the field, and he mostly succeeded by tossing balls up into the winds and letting his super-talented wide receivers circle under them. I can't remember him making one throw that I just said, "wow." He was a very strong leadership guy, but I never thought of him as having an NFL arm. We can agree to disagree and you can say great arm and I'll say average MLB 3B arm. But I think you'll see the difference when they start making comparisons between him and Viciedo at third. "LARGE FRAME. MATURE BODY, HEAVY REAR & LEGS. BODY TYPE SIMILAR TO LANCE BERKMAN. WIDE, SEMI-SQUAT STANCE. BAT PINCHED INTO CHEST. STRENGTH IN SLIGHT UPPERCUT SWING W/ PWR POTENTIAL. ARM PLAYABLE, ACCURATE THROWS. HANDS & DEFENSIVE ACTIONS SHOW PROPER TECHNIC. ALERT BASE RUNNER. PHYSICALLY MATURE. STRENGTH IN SWING, BAT & PWR POTENTIAL." mlb.com scouting report on draft day

How quickly we forget...Dye has been with us for FOUR years now.

QUOTE (Kenny Hates Prospects @ Nov 21, 2008 -> 02:18 PM) I would imagine that scenario is pretty unlikely. Fields and Viciedo both have terrific arms, there's no way they immediately look to waste that at 1B. The only way that happens IMO is if Viciedo eats himself out of the position like Miguel Cabrera or Fields just cannot Field, but it's way too early to draw either of those conclusions. Viciedo is a kid who played under a ton of pressure and lived in communist Cuba, and Fields has been injured since 2007 at least. Last year was his knee, the year before it was a hamstring I think. I would say Josh has an above average arm, but nothing special for 3B. Maybe even below league average at that position. Now Viciedo, he's supposed to have a gun.

QUOTE (fathom @ Nov 21, 2008 -> 02:32 PM) Well, there have been rumors that Sox are looking to cut payroll, but nothing more has been said about that. I think Abreu would be a great fit for the Sox in RF. I can't see Furcal happening, as 4 years to a guy with a bad back problem doesn't seem like the KW way of doing things. I just don't see Abreu being a bright idea at his age, even for three years. For all we know, Viciedo moves to RF and Fields becomes a stud at 3B and we can invest that money much more efficiently/productively elsewhere. That's just too much money for someone that I don't consider to be a better player than Dye, at his age...and then losing the draft pick/s.

Not to mention TCQ in the middle of the line-up. Mustn't forget about him.

The irony, of course, is that it seems KW is making a living finding other big-time talent that's underachieving or overcoached (or through injury) and making lemonade out of it...and now they seem to be on a big-time roll with Jord. Danks, Beckham, Viciedo and Poreda (and hopefully a healthy Fields).

"John Van Benschoten, the 8th overall pick in the 2001 draft, chose minor league free agency over re-signing with the Pirates." Of course, you know KW will swoop in right away and sign him, turning him over to Champion and Hanging With Don Cooper. RHP John Van Benschoten-28-The 8th overall pick in the 2001 draft has been LeVale Speigner-esque in his parts of 3 seasons in the bigs, allowing 100 runs (92 earned) in only 90 innings pitched. Ouch. His minor league numbers continue to get worse little by little, but they're still decent enough to make me think he's got SOMETHING in the tank. Maybe try him out as a reliever? from nationals blog

But hey, you're getting 3 starting pitchers back for a reliever and a player with possibly one year left on his contract. It wouldn't be a simply horrible trade, it's just one that KW will never make, IMO. Not as long as he's GM of the White Sox. Niemann is more or less like Marquez, but Davis would be the key to the deal...and Viciedo being able to play RF NOW and Thornton/Dotel/Poreda being able to close NOW. Too many question marks. If the trade was for 2010 or 2011, sure, go ahead. But it's kind of pointless to speculate about something we know will never ever happen.

VENEZUELA....maybe Clevlan Santeliz is the first impact from there.

Maybe we should trade for Breslow of the Twins so we can pair two Ivy Leaguers together in Breslow and Perez in case next year's coin toss is junked instead for a debate on "global warming and green jobs." Although personally, I'd rather see Gardenhire and Guillen fight in a cage match, lol.

QUOTE (CWSOX45 @ Nov 21, 2008 -> 11:52 AM) I agree, and if this is the case then Kenny will most likely be asking for Fernando Perez. The kid is a player Kenny would most likely be infatuated with. Flat out speed and can fly around the bases. He's currently playing in winter ball right now, last time I checked he was flat out raking. I just don't think we have the pieces to land a guy like Crawford, and one of their starting pitchers unless they get Jenks and Dye. In all honesty I think we'd have to get a better picher than Jackson if this is indeed the package that is being offered. Should be interesting. The question is how much better of an option is Perez than Anderson/Owens in CF as a platoon? I don't think it's clear-cut, nor is it obvious Perez can be a regular player or the type of player who can easily translate his speed automatically into 50 stolen bases. Then there's the fact that he's not really your classic leadoff hitter in terms of his approach either, more of a 9 hitter.

QUOTE (DBAHO @ Nov 21, 2008 -> 11:49 AM) If you could get Crawford, Davis and a couple more prospects for Jenks and Dye, would you make that move? In a second, but I don't think the Rays would...not for just one guaranteed year of JD at his age, versus the White Sox having Crawford for two at less money. Then there's the supposition that Davis has roughly equal value to Jenks in terms of a straight-up trade for the many reasons we've already discussed with Jenks' "value" and the fact that Davis, as a starter, is more valuable than a reliever who's going into arb. years.

QUOTE (Steve9347 @ Nov 21, 2008 -> 12:31 PM) Lineup by June in a perfect world (assuming Konerko, Dye, or Thome are not dealt, which would then make it even a more perfecter world!). SS Furcal CF Ramirez LF Quentin RF Dye DH Thome 1B Konerko C Pierzynski 3B Viciedo 2B Beckham Add Brian Roberts to Furcal...add Fields/Viciedo/Betemit as your 3B "platoon" That would have the makings of a monster line-up. I just don't think it's realistic until 2010. But pairing Roberts and Furcal in front of the bashers would scare a lot of teams, even the Twins.

QUOTE (maggsmaggs @ Nov 21, 2008 -> 12:22 PM) One year left on his deal, getting worse in all aspects of the game right now. No doubt he is a productive player, but an opportunity to get some more young pitching is something that you really can't pass up. But this is all speculation that Jackson is at the center of this deal, let's wait till we find out who they get (or if the deal even goes down) before we ask why trade Dye. Also, the $10 million that Dye makes could be turned into some other valuable chips. But isn't there a club option in that contract (Dye's) for 2010 as well...??? And a $1 million buyout? Furcal to SS, if we can't get a better CF (like Taveras), then we move Ramirez out there and let Getz/Nix/Betemit fight it out for 2B. OR we trade for Roberts, sign Furcal, Ramirez goes to CF and we have the most amazing offseason in recent memory... But I prefer pairing Furcal and Ramirez up the middle and not giving Alexei on the job training for yet another position...not to mention the adverse affect it might have on his offense.

QUOTE (103 mph screwball @ Nov 21, 2008 -> 12:15 PM) Why pay a king's ransom for Roberts if the Sox can just sign Furcal and keep Alexei at 2nd where we know he can play well. Roberts would look nice in a Sox uniform though. Because the O's will ask for Fields and Poreda...or more. However, we would be able to get Type A compensation back in one year...so the trade wouldn't be so bad, considering we could pick up two players of similar abilities/talent. It's just that Poreda and Fields are much closer to making an impact, and KW is all about THIS season. I think we can at least beat the package/s the Cubs offer if we go head-to-head with them for Roberts. That would be a PR coup for KW. I think 4 years and $42-46 million will get the Furcal signing done for some team. He has an offer for 3/39 but wants the added security of an additional year.

I just don't see getting Jackson AND a young/quality arm like Wade Davis for Dye. We'd have to give up something more than JD for two seasons. Pitching is like gold, and young/talented starting pitchers are like the Hope Diamond. You don't give them up without risking severe repercussions (see Kazmir deal). I think Friedman is smart enough to know that even if he appears to have an abundance of pitching, there's always injuries or slumps (Sonnanstine would be a good candidate, or Shields) and you can NEVER have too much pitching. When I hear Davis/Jackson for Dye, it makes me think of KW giving up Fogg AND Wells for Ritchie. It just has a tremendous risk of backfiring.

QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Nov 21, 2008 -> 11:55 AM) If you added Jenks to the equation you could have the potential for a pretty big blockbuster type deal. I'm guessing Wade Davis and Aybar or a prospect. Why has everyone fallen in love with W. Aybar? Didn't we just get Betemit? He's a nice role player to have on a team, but I don't ever envision either Betemit or Aybar getting 300 at-bats with the Sox unless there are major injuries.

QUOTE (fathom @ Nov 21, 2008 -> 11:51 AM) As much as I hated Swisher, there's no way Viciedo could put up Swisher's numbers if he started in 2009. Also, if we're counting on Marquez and Nunez to be on the 25 man roster coming out of ST, we're in trouble. I don't think Viciedo's better than Swisher NOW, of course...but Swisher didn't have a place to play going forward with the team as currently constituted. The only way would be bringing in Furcal/Figgins/Roberts and Swisher playing CF again, which isn't the greatest idea in the history of the world. OTOH, Viciedo fills a need at 3B potentially...then LF/RF/1B (to replace Konerko) or DH (to replace Thome) down the line. That's more valuable to the Sox than someone who can play just OF/1B/DH. I think there's a good chance Nunez might win the last spot in the bullpen. Marquez, any MLB contribution next year will be a pleasant surprise (or bad omen).

QUOTE (fathom @ Nov 21, 2008 -> 11:44 AM) Jackson would almost definitely be the main piece of the trade. I'm not a fan of his. I really don't like how most of these trades were involved with our making the 2009 team significantly weaker. KW's arguments so far: Betemit >>> Uribe (plus the savings can be allocated elsewhere) Viciedo >>> Swisher (plus the savings on this contract versus what we were going to pay Swisher) Marquez and Nunez have been added to the puzzle for depth in both the pen and rotation. We have two more intriguing options for 3B (at least a platoon with Betemit) in Viciedo and Betemit we didn't have before. We have yet to see what parting with Cabrera, Uribe, Crede and Swisher will bring back....part of the answer now becomes Viciedo.

Howell and Balfour are candidates to regress. They're not comfortable with Wheeler as their closer, and Price is moving back to the rotation. Percival has pretty much gone Todd Jones on them now. One would think that Poreda, Jenks or Thornton (maybe Dotel or Linebrink, although expensive for TB) would be their three main bullpen targets. I don't think to move a Carl Crawford they're going to settle on Lance Broadways, Adam Russells or Ehren Wassermans.

Seems like the opposite of a Braves trade, where they would get back young talent in return for a veteran they didn't want to pay anymore. Gone are the days when that franchise was free-spending. With Putz supposedly moving to the Mets as a closer at $5 million and the addition of Valverde to about 8 other past closers on the market, I think Jenks' value is not quite what we might have believed it to be...especially as his contract numbers dramatically escalate. I think to get that package (CF, Escobar, a catcher) we'd have to give up Jenks, Vazquez and Fields. By the way, with that move, you also open up two big holes in the back end of the rotation. Maybe, maybe, Richard or Poreda can do it...but at least Vazquez gives you 200 innings, strikeouts, a .500 record and consistent inconsistency.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3716458 I thought the deal was for five years, not four...interesting. Well, that really means KW is serious about them pushing this kid to make some contributions no later than 2010 but more probably in 2009. The kid becomes a free agent, essentially, at age 23/24...which is more or less what he was a week or so ago, I guess.

"Thankfully, we aren't talking about Ed Wade or Houston, but instead a sometimes sly, sometimes straight up questionable Kenny Williams." "inconsistent" Well, geez, what GM is always consistent and never deviates from a straight-forward path?? This criticism is a little bit ridiculous to me...I mean, some of these writers are still stuck in "Moneyball" thinking about KW and conveniently have already forgotten the 2005 season and some of his recent masterful moves (Quentin, Ramirez, Floyd, Danks, Thornton) because they're too bent on beating the two Swisher deals to death. Simply, the White Sox weren't doing well in either the draft (partly because of positioning, partly due to the department itself, Wilder, etc.) and they weren't getting much of anything out of Venezuela or the Domincan. Hence, we've explored two new markets in Japan and Cuba...and potentially more from Taiwan/China. Heck, Anderson Gomes is Brazilian, correct?