caulfield12

QUOTE (Fotop @ Nov 29, 2008 -> 04:27 PM) Sign me up for anything that involves Yunel Escobar. If we're concerned about a ramirez/escobar dp combo blocking beckham...they can always move alexei to cf when the moment arrives. I think Escobar is a hell of a ballplayer though and the type of guy we need to target if we're actually going to move dye. This is where a Blanco/Escobar trade for Dye and Jenks makes a heck of a lot of sense (hopefully we do this deal without including Fields or Poreda as well). However, if we have to give up Vazquez instead of Jenks, it creates another set of problems, because we'd be in trouble (arguably) replacing two starting pitchers. Then again, KW would have another $15-20 million to play around with...which could be interesting, to say the least. The Padres absolutely believe Cubs GM Jim Hendry can make this a three-way trade to get the Padres the pitching they need in addition to third-base prospect Josh Vitters. The Braves were not going to have to surrender any of their five best prospects, but have hesitated over Class A-level pitching. Peavy is a Cy Young winner, in case anyone's forgotten. from espn.com/peter gammons one would believe this makes a deal attractive to KW, unless he gets Blanco at a minimum and a AA/AAA prospect, like the young catcher, Flowers I think his his name?

Ramirez continues to produce phenomenal all around numbers in front of crowds more appropriate for professional bowling and the national spelling bee. What would the baseball landscape look like if Ramirez was being protected by David Ortiz in the heart of the Boston order and hitting balls off a Monster that is dark green rather than teal? Would the Red Sox have won the World Series in 2007 with a 3-4-5 of Hanley Ramirez, David Ortiz and Manny Ramirez, but no Josh Beckett? Would they have been able to come back in the ALCS without Beckett's unbelievable performances? With that offense, would they be down 3-1 in the first place? from same article Interesting things to ponder in the midst of hot stove season.

But why would you trade the relative certainty of Dye or Vazquez for someone who might never be the same again? I could see trading Jenks for Duchscherer (as part of a package)...I also think BB is too smart to give away Justin at such a point. It would be like the White Sox trying to trade Crede after the 2007 season. They simply have to wait and see if he can re-establish his value. The risk of getting nothing for him is less than the risk that he returns to form and they miss out on the kind of trade return that could really impact their future performance positively.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Nov 29, 2008 -> 04:13 PM) Mike Cameron and his .331 OBP? You're saying that somehow I'm supposed to find that to be good? Well, maybe compared to what Taveras did last year, but still... Exactly, the point is HOW DIFFICULT it is to find someone...the magic, pristine bullet theory. He's not out there...so we will have to accept some imperfections in our leadoff hitter. Of all those players, either they are currently unavailable (aka "dream/roto/playstation") acquisitions or they're flawed. Mike Cameron, at his age, and coming from the NL to the AL, would I want that? Well, I would probably choose that over an Anderson/Owens platoon, but not by much more than a whisker. He has a little bit left in his tank, but to stand the wear and tear of batting leadoff in the AL again and playing CF every day? Doubt it. I don't think KW is giving Cameron much if any consideration either. Now, OTOH, Blanco is an interesting target and his name logically pops up in a possible Jenks/Vazquez/Dye deal to the Braves. The only other obvious possibility is another thread figuring out what can be done to make Michael Bourn Supremacy a .340-.350 OBP type of player.

Of course, going back to Pods' 2005, we don't really have an obvious Iguchi-type hitter on the team either...definitely not AJ. Ramirez is a candidate...but do you want someone with his potential ability thinking about sacrificing and giving up so many at-bats? Do you want to consciously change the more aggressive nature of his approach by putting him in the 2 spot? It's almost funny to even consider it, but this line-up would be best (with Taveras as the leadoff hitter) with Orlando Cabrera batting second. And Brian Anderson is definitely NEVER going to be either a 1 or 2 hitter in the big leagues on his best day.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/stats/battin...ull&minpa=0 According to the theories of some people here on the board, using OBP as the holy grail and only measure, we should get either Gregor Blanco or Mike Cameron. Cody Ross, McLouth and Matt Kemp are going to be prohibitively expensive to acquire. Go to that page and tell me what players the White Sox realistically have a shot at??? Taveras was at least better than Carlos Gomez at getting on base and wouldn't cost us very much at all. Maybe he's Option C or D, but he has to be on the radar screen. As much as we're complaining about him, I can't imagine the complaints after KW trades away the farm system again for Brian Roberts. Otherwise, we are going to have to target someone like Dickerson without much of an established track record...who may or may not be better than Jerry Owens as a leadoff hitter and CFer.

QUOTE (scenario @ Nov 29, 2008 -> 08:31 AM) I agree. But if the mlb.com article yesterday is true, and not just blowing smoke, 9 teams have contacted Griffey's agent expressing interest. If that is the case, then the odds of him accepting arbitration by December 7th or whatever are small. Griffey's official salary was $8.3 million, not counting all the bonuses and other ancillary benefits from his contract. So they could cut him to $6.7 million...but I don't know if they could win that case for sure. They might end up paying him around $9 million instead, and I don't think he's worth 80% of Jermaine Dye. The other question is how many teams out there would be willing to pay Griffey MORE than $6.7 million for 2009?

Not to mention Buehrle is.... 1) Much better with the press, and more likely to take responsibility for poor starts, show anger and emotion...not talk about his "comfy life" or "doing better next time" 2) World Series/playoff performances 3) Decade in the White Sox organization (last truly homegrown pitcher to make it from Draft Day to All-Star level success) 4) His leadership 5) His colorful personality, sense of humor and "tarp sliding"

http://www.surveymonkey.com/sr.aspx?sm=97S...llvQ_2blBPwI_3d Poll results about which Type B free agents would be offered arbitration...Milton Bradley was one of the few players placed at 50% or higher. Uribe was only around 12%.

Nebraska has the tradition...being a Cornhusker is the equivalent of being a professional athlete there, because of the attention and adulation (and pressure) placed on Nebraska athletes. Many former pros played for Osborne...etc. They also control not only their state (no in-state rival) but the Dakotas and many parts of the near-West. I think Missouri and Nebraska will struggle for awhile with TX/OU and then TT and OSU also emerging as powers...they don't have to play ALL of those teams each year, but probably 2 of them. And then KSU made a crazy choice to bring in Bill Snyder, that move doesn't make much sense at all to me.

We didn't acquire Scott Podsednik for his high OPB, RBI numbers or power either....not even defense or arm. He was pretty much the definition of one-dimension, Taveras is a better all-around baseball player IMO, and younger.

Well, another way to look at it is we're tied for 12th with the Cardinals and Blue Jays. I just don't understand any of the fascination with picking the Indians or the Tigers over us...and logic would say that Blue Jays would have a MUCH tougher time just getting out of their own division, let alone advancing in the playoffs. I mean, they'd have to beat either New York, TB or Boston just to make it. And the odds are they'll be losing their #2 starter in Burnett in the process of starting off in that quest. Not likely.

I would much rather have Brandon Phillips than Orlando Hudson...I definitely think Hudson will decline over the length of a 4-5 year contract, even a three year one. He also seems to be a player susceptible to injuries, like Furcal now. That said, Phillips would be one of the more expensive players to acquire in terms of talent, outside the likes of Bruce, Cueto and Volquez.

QUOTE (joesaiditstrue @ Nov 27, 2008 -> 05:42 AM) Firesale after winning the division, nice. Firesales are auctioning off players like Lofton, Durham, Howry, etc. We're hardly doing that, unless you consider when we traded Freddy Garcia and Brandon McCarthy to be "fire sales." I certainly didn't. There's no reason you can't get younger, more athletic and have a more flexible payroll at the same time. Our best team in the last four years was the one with clearly the lowest payroll. Did we have a "fire sale" to get rid of Carlos Lee, Valentin and Ordonez. I think not, although some consider the Lee for Pods deal exactly that kind of trade.

QUOTE (Kenny Hates Prospects @ Nov 26, 2008 -> 10:22 PM) Or the Angels. Think of all we could've gotten for guys like Dallas McPherson, Brandon Wood, and co. There is no reason to believe Kenny would have sat on his hands over Miguel Cabrera last year like the Angels did. Kenny tried as hard as he could, but we didn't have the bullets (although I'm glad we didn't do that deal because we would have lost Johnny Danks, who is already better than the entire package the Tigers offered IMO). Maybe, but I think Cameron Maybin will be a stud...you can argue all you want about the merits of a starting pitcher versus a position player though. And A. Miller still has time to get his act together. Nobody gives up on lefty starters who throw in the 90's quickly.

1) Garland won't come back here, I think he'll end up in the NL 2) He's not worth whatever he is asking..which is about the same as Vazquez makes 3) We need younger/cheaper options at 4th/5th starter, not MORE expensive (per KW's recent pronouncements) 4) He'll get 3-4 years, JR and KW don't like to give long-term deals, Buehrle was the one exception and Contreras

QUOTE (bighurt4life @ Nov 26, 2008 -> 11:12 PM) We're all forgetting that the Braves have a glut of CF prospects, most of whom are highly regarded. I would have to think that any trade with the Braves would be centered around whichever one Kenny likes best or is the closest to the majors. 1) Jason Heyward, OF, Grade A-: A personal favorite, though he actually hit fewer homers than expected. Broad base of skills. 2) Frederick Freeman, 1B, Grade B+: Debating whether or not to move him up to A-. Not as broad a skill base as Heyward, but power and youth stand out. 3) Thomas Hanson, RHP, Grade B+: Looks good to me, though will need some Triple-A to put on the finishing touches. Number Two starter ceiling. 4) Jordan Schafer, OF, Grade B+: I should have put him on the Rotowire Top 100 list. Will be in the 50/50 for the book. Power, speed, defense, OBP, and played well without the juice. 5) Tyler Flowers, C, Grade B: Love the power and walks, main question is glove. 6) Cole Rohrbough, LHP, Grade B: Excellent ceiling. I cannot prove why objectively, but I worry a bit about his arm. Needs sharper command too. 7) Craig Kimbrel, RHP, Grade B: I hesitate to grade relief prospects this highly, but I can’t ignore his early dominance. 8) Gorkys Hernandez, OF, Grade B-: Would like to see more power, other skills coming along. from John Sickels/BA If KW's NOT going after pitching (assuming the deal is Dye/Jenks, NOT Dye/Vazquez or even Vazquez/Jenks)....then you would have to say it's going to be Schafer, although obviously KW would target Heyward. Then you have Flowers (we need some more catching prospects, although it seems he's a little like Armstrong, good bad and questionable D, we actually need the opposite) and Hernandez. The other players that figure in here are Gregor Blanco (for CF, 100+ AB's for ATL last season) and Kelly Johnson. I think Heyward and Escobar have to be ruled "off limits" by management. The problem with all these trades is it's VERY difficult to pry away a Top 1-2-3 prospect, but getting someone like Schafer is a very questionable move for KW. Soriano and Gonzalez are interesting names here...Lillibridge, not sure he does it for me either, like Johnson...although Johnson seems to have higher upside at this point. Maybe we should try Betemit for awhile before we fall in love with any other Braves' phenoms.

Which is why Kirk Ferentz is such a good coach...he has taken many unheralded 2-3 star recruits (or no stars) like Bob Sanders, Dallas Clark, Robert Gallery...and coached them into being first and second round NFL draft picks. The irony is that when he's brought in really elite talent (like ND, OSU, MICH, PSU get year after year), the ONE year Iowa's recruiting class was in the Top 10 in the program's history...all the kids like Doerring, Bain, Christensen, Richardson and Moeaki have been huge disappointments/transfers or injuries derailed their careers. That's why you look at the likes of KF beating Zook almost every time (until ILL victory at home this year), despite the far superior athletic ability Iowa lines up against every game, the recruiting disadvantages Iowa has (basically like Nebraska, but having to share the state with Iowa State/UNI and also no major urban/metropolitan center like Omaha) to fight against. And no, Des Moines is NOT a major city, IMO. Or just look at Iowa's record against PSU...of course, Ohio State has been our one big kahuna that has been difficult to take down, although we did simply destroy them one time in Iowa City when Tate was QB and OSU was struggling mightily that season.

I meant the performances out of some of those "fliers" they took...especially Wellemeyer and Kip Wells, although even the likes of Cal Eldred come to mind. No doubt, Pujols is one of the top players in the game. Although that 83 win season doesn't scream "success," the strange post-season of 2006, with the Tigers' pitchers developing simultaneous "brain cramps," is hard to argue against. When St. Louis, Atlanta and Cleveland, teams that had traditionally strong fan support (especially STL, win or lose) in the previous decade started acting like "mid-market" teams, that signalled a new era in modern-day baseball. Then again, teams like KC and Milwaukee are showing with some of their moves that the revenue sharing is having an effect in a positive way. That and the fact that Yankee dollars aren't dominant anymore. Rosenthal says the Dodgers aren't likely to sign Rafael Furcal and aren't pursuing Orlando Cabrera or Edgar Renteria. He notes that four teams are in on Cabrera. mlbtraderumors.com

I would agree about trading them (but maybe not Uribe)...they would be more attractive if teams didn't have to give up compensation for O-Cab. In some ways, KW has always done better with trades than he has with the draft picks...of course, some will blame that on Shaffer and Wilder, et al. However, KW was still responsible for giving the "okay" on those first rounders like Ring, Honel (to a lesser extent), McCulloch and Broadway that were so questionable. I'm just not sure about finding a market for Uribe...we are bi-polar about him and Vazquez here. To some, he's an underappreciated asset that would/should be starting on at least 5 other clubs as a SS. To others, he's a strikeout prone, low OBP, low contact hitter with weight/motivation issues who doesn't deserve in the vicinity of $5 million as a bench/supersub type of player. I think the risk of getting stuck with Uribe is at least 50/50. With Cabrera, much lower...and also, his having a "decent/affordable" one year contract (compared to paying Furcal 3-4 years at $39-45 million at roughly the same age and with more of a recent injury history) would also be an attractive enticement to many teams like the Giants who are even looking at Renteria as a starter.

Can we trust Soriano's health though? We already have Dotel and Linebrink that are iffy, and speculation when/if Jenks might break down at some point. Thornton is the only pitcher in the pen who looks to have a 95% chance of NOT getting injured. I think Johnson is more likely than Escobar. I've heard Gregor Blanco's name thrown out for CF, although, like Johnson, he's not one of their TOP prospects...probably a member of the second tier. Gonzalez would be nice...does that mean we're going to re-examine trading Jenks and installing Dotel/Gonzalez/Thornton/Link as the new closer...or closer by committee approach? I think Escobar is a little ambitios if it's JUST Dye...but you add Vazquez/Jenks into the mix, then anything becomes possible. Once again with JD, a lot depends on his wilingness to stay for two years. He's a former Brave, and while he was hurt/disappointed to be traded, I don't think he would resist a trade there either, because the NL's weaker pitching would be tempting.

Well, they re-signed Cris Carpenter to that crazy deal....then watched him miss almost two full seasons. But, in general, I'd agree...the Cardinals free spending ways ended about five years ago. More recently, they've gone the Todd Wellemeyer/Kip Wells route, to mixed results.

QUOTE (SoxFan101 @ Nov 26, 2008 -> 06:13 PM) I think Cabrera gets a bad rap here that he doesnt really deserve. I personally dont know any of the ballplayers or have an inside source but atleast from looking at the clubhouse in games he seemed to fit well with the rest of the team. Yeah he had some questionable things like complaining about the error, but I think as a whole he was well liked by the team. Now if someone who is close to people on the sox or in the clubhouse says otherwise, but most of you seemingly are just assuming he is a cancer because of a few articles in the newspapers, some that werent even that bad. There were a couple of times he was stealing 3rd base in very questionable situation with Dye at the plate...one time, Dye had to be physically restrained from going after him. When there's smoke, there's fire. There were just too many times that Ozzie left Cabrera hung out to dry in the media instead of backing him up. Also, the whole thing of leaving every night from the ballpark and NEVER taking questions from reporters. That's another form of selfishness, especially after losses which he has a hand in. Quentin absolutely HATES dealing with the media, but he still manages it and always is classy in his responses.

Nothing new or interesting to report today so far...just that the "mystery" team involved with Furcal might very well be either the Indians or Twins, but there's no confirmation of that, and I think both teams will end up being outbid in the end by the Giants, Dodgers or A's, not to mention the Mets or the Cardinals.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Nov 26, 2008 -> 10:06 AM) I read an article on how arbitrators come to their decisions. Say the White Sox offered Uribe $4 million and Juan asked for $5,999,999. The arbitrator decides which figure is closer to the players worth. If he or she came to the conclusion that Uribe was a $5 million a year guy, he would get $5,999,999. If he thought he was a $4,999,999 guy, he would get $4 million. Because of this system, teams almost always have to offer a raise even if the player doesn't earn it. Cabrera will make more money in 2009 if he took arbitration than he will on the open market. While you wouldn't think he would take arbitration, there's always the possibility he thinks conditions will be better next year and take the Sox up on it. That's probably $11 or $12 million you will pay to someone you consider a cancer for a season just to gain late first round draft picks. If he's not signed by someone before the deadline, I think the White Sox will decline arb for him. I don't know...look at it from the White Sox standpoint. They could easily offer him arbitration, then automatically try to cut him down to $8-9 million. Let's say they surprised the world and offered $10 million or higher...it's not clear that Cabrera would win his case. I don't know, maybe he'll ask for $11-12.5 million per season, that's fairly realistic I suppose....but, for one, he's going to have to go through a very contentious arbitration proceeding, and all of the truly ugly things from 2008 are going to come out (and many we don't know about that were kept under wraps). Do you think he would want to go through that? MAYBE. Then you figure Furcal, at a similar age and coming off two-injured plagued seasons, is going to get something like 3 years and $39 million or 4 years and $40-45 million...I think at his age, Cabrera realizes it would be more intelligent to get the security of a 2-4 year deal than taking a risk with just a one year contract when he could get injured or any number of things could happen to lower his value going forward. The odds are very much against him significantly raising his value in 2009. You get what you pay for with Cabrera, just like Vazquez, warts and all. I just think a team like the Giants, A's (whoever loses out on Furcal), Dodgers, Twins, Tigers, Cardinals...well, there are quite a few teams out there looking for a SS, and he's the second or third best option. There might even be some teams that prefer the certainty of Cabrera at $10 million for 2-3 seasons over the larger risk, larger possible return of a Rafael Furcal signing. At least you mitigate your downside, arguably, by signing O-Cab. For these reasons, I think KW calls the bluff and goes for the arbitration offer, feeling pretty darned certain (95% chance) that Cabrera and his agent won't accept it.