michelangelosmonkey

I've thought the same thing...but Robert covers so much ground in CF. With all the shifting baseball does and as fast as Engel and Robert are...i wonder if you could play Robert as the RCF and Engel as the LCF and have Jiminez just stand on the LF foul line and tell him not to move unless it's hit right at him.

Since Sept 2019...Engel has 10 home runs in 184 at bats....slashing .280/.330/.495...and playing gold glove defense. I know they have babied him by giving him favorable matchups...and its still only a couple of hundred at bats...but at some don't you give him a 60 game, play every day, stretch to see if we may have something really interesting here?

Phillies have 5th highest payroll in baseball...and they are a .500 team this year, sub .500 last year and .500 in 2019. Their rebuild has been a disaster. Bryce Harper as our RF for the next ten years?? As a trade would be salary cap relief for them so I'm not sure it would take much in prospect capital. Engel, Burger and one of the HS pitchers?

I would like to add that if you let me have ONE of Rodon, Cease, or Kopeck as playoff starter then we have still have four very good starters. And certainly at the start of the year we thought this would be an offensive team...and by October we could have well rested Robert and Jiminez added to a top three offense. Plus I think we add at the TDL. As I've often said...Sox had top 5 payroll in 00's, 90's and 80's when the team was good. No reason to believe JR will be cheap here.

Yes I think Calisoxfan has done a nice job arguing that. But the other thing is...these guys have been throwing their whole lives. Chris Sale went from 23 inning to 71 innings to a decade of 200 innings. Rodon has had injuries but like I argued in an earlier thread...someone like Mike Minor had a career of injuries but then when he turned 30 he had a couple of 28 start/175 inning seasons/5 WAR seasons. Cease was on pace last year for a 160 innings...it was just COVID. They are young and strong and stretched out. Kopech and Crochett are obviously different...but I'm not counting on them. Maybe they get tired out at the end of the year but every baseball team has the same concerns.

Agreed...I mean there are a lot of days where Cease or Rodon go out there and I think...this is the day where the magic ends. But the optimist in me thinks...it happens...these two guys have always had amazing stuff, they have a new pitching coach...why not? If Cease and Rodon turn back into pumpkins in September, obviously the team won't win. But maybe this is the year where, like Gio in 2019, it all comes together.

It's fine to be aggressively pessimistic. Dodgers won 302 games in three year stretch 17-19 and didn't win the WS. I think it is unlikely that the Sox win the WS just because it's baseball and once you get to the playoffs randomness happens. That happens every year to every playoff team...so I'm not sure at any point for any future White Sox team you can say...yup...this is the one that's going to win. Like wise I don't think you can count this team out because Rodon didn't use to pitch like this, or Kopech and Crochett are young. This team, at this moment, is great and has a chance to be greater...you should be enjoying it.

And they are 23-10 with a 2.60 ERA. Honestly it's like throwing an ace out every game in a short series. The defense is good, the offense has scored the third most runs in baseball. And I'm not even counting Keuchel or Kopeck...and Robert and Jiminez are probably going to be back. If not now, when?

I saw four different Vegas odds sights and all four had the White Sox as the most likely AL team to make the WS. I'm not saying they will win...I'm saying the idea that "the team isn't ready" seems confidently pessimistic. I'm not sure I've ever seen four starting pitchers as consistently dominant as this group has been. Combined 275 innings, 1 WHIP, 88BB/350K. If they started the playoffs tomorrow I'd be as confident as one can be given the randomness of baseball.

I feel like this is not going to be the best Sox team in the five year window...but to be confident that they won't win the WS...with the way Lynn, Cease, Rodon and Gio have been pitching? Dominant starting pitching can take a team a long way...look at 2005 WS winner.

Did Collins run over your dog or something? Every time he catches you have multiple posts about how bad he is at everything. Yet team ERA when he catches is under 3...and his OPS is just under .700. Back up catcher hatred is odd.

I'm sorry but you never answered my question. Maybe you are just too childish. It shows the weakness of your mind that you are afraid to even confront the very real and serious issues I've raised. You are always obfuscating by answering my question with a question about your questioning questions.

Right? I can't get over how good Narvaez has turned out. Collins, Yermin and I think Seby has some kind of major league career.

Haha...just came over to read some positivity about a REALLY fun team that has an amazing future and I see it's been hijacked by Ragah telling everyone they are stupid and wrong and the team is probably headed for disaster. We just went into Minnesota...without Jimenez, Abreu, Robert and Engel and we beat them two out of three and they were lucky to win one. The good times are here...rejoice...and yes the bad times may be ten minutes down the road but for now best record in baseball tastes pretty good.

Lot of hatred in the game thread about Collins...Baron makes multiple posts about Collins being worst catcher in baseball every time he catches...making me wonder if Zack has run over Baron's dog or something. Still Collins got on base twice, his OPS is .700 (which is hard for a guy that plays twice a week) and the pitchers ERA when he catcher is under 3.00...including the no-hitter. Lefty power hitter, good batting eye and seemingly calls a good game...lots of value in that.

Sorry I just got out of the time machine from January 2020 and streets are empty and the few out are wearing masks, Tony La Russa is the manager and the Sox outfield is Vaughan, Leury and Mendick. So...post apocalypse?

Wait....I'm confused are you suggesting TLR can't get around on a fastball anymore? Thank god we have age limits on US Presidents because god knows how they would hit the curve in their mid 70's. So there is no room for confusion by argument is DON'T MAKE CONCLUSIONS BASED ON SMALL SAMPLE SIZES...baseball players, managers, teachers, sales guys. Lots of randomness. As for Tatis...listen you have the stronger argument...Tatis in March was a transcendent talent...an uber god of baseball that we are creating a new wing for in Cooperstown. He's had a rough April defensively and offensively. He's had a lot of injuries (and yes we can say the same thing for Robert and Jiminez...we should hold off on the Hall of Fame ceremony for a little while). He would not be the first baseball player that had an amazing 160 game stretch and fail...he would not be the first Domincan player to use steroids. He would not be the first guy to start at SS and flame out because he can't field the position. He's a slightly better hitter at this point than Eloy, one year younger...and given a contract worth $250 million more. That's what would worry me as a Padre fan.

Sorry I was using an analogy and you clearly missed it. My POINT was that it's only 23 games...it is baseball...we cannot make conclusions based on small sample sizes. TLR is not a failure because of a couple of heartbreaking losses in April...Tatis is not a failure because of 23 games in April. Still it would be fair to be a bit nervous as a Padres fan...10 errors in 23 games at SS, -7 DRS in his first 162 games played...if Tatis jr can't play SS and they move him to left field...that $330 million contract isn't so pretty. If his 197 strikeouts in his first 650 at bats suggest teams are figuring out how to get him out...that $330 million contract isn't so pretty. if missing long stretches of the season in 2018 (at AA), 2019, 2020 and already this year suggest he's fragile...that $330 million contract isn't so pretty.

It's so nice to see how you can be when you are civil. You don't use the term "moronic" you just say I have poor judgment, I am laughable and lack awareness. I brought up Tatis to show the idiocy of drawing conclusions about hall of fame people based on a 23 game sample size. As for you taking my concise argument against hiring TLR and my concise argument for hiring him and expanding the negatives (without really adding anything) and suggesting somehow there is no validity to the positives without even discussing why a man's actual record is meaningless. Again, as I have stated often, I did not want TLR...I just can understand why the White Sox would try him. I was responding to Multiple gun Pete's claim that it was moronic (and his weirdly calling me out to dunk on me as if the case is closed) and I will respond to you describing what moronic means, saying that is what the team was doing without actually using the word. There is only one strong argument against TLR (the drunk driving think is silly, 1% of drivers every year get DWI's...its personal bad judgment that I'm sure TLR is ashamed of...as I suspect you are ashamed of some of your posts). The major question is that he is old, the game has passed him by and his managerial genius is gone. Old is a relative thing. TLR is at the average life expectancy for a man in 2021. Casey Stengel was coach of the Yankees at the average life expectancy of a man in 1955 and then went to the WS five of the next six years. Old does not mean incompetent...ask Behlicheck, ask Saban, ask Popovich. Honestly the only moronic position at this point is that the data is in and TLR is a failed manager because of a couple of in-game decisions that didn't work. Neither you, nor I nor anyone else on this board have any idea what it takes to lead a team to a WS. TLR does and maybe he's old and the game has passed him by or maybe he's sly as a fox and is moving and shaping the team with early lessons that will cost games now but harden the team in the future...or maybe we've lost a couple of our favorite players for the season, we've lost a couple of heart breaking games...we've had a bunch of off days and rain outs and we want to beat up the manager because part of his job is to be the whipping boy.

That's not really a reasoned argument...saying "everything was wrong with it" and then "sorry you are stupid". Here is the debate...Negatives...he's very old, he's been out of the game a decade, some personal blemishes. Positives...fluent in Spanish, some personal goodness, he's taken three different franchises to the playoffs, won WS in each league, won a dozen pennants, won more games than anyone born after the Civil War, Hall of Famer. It's not ridiculous to say...the game may have passed him by...he's REALLY old. But it's also not "moronic" to say...he has a lifetime of leading men successfully, 76 isn't that old anymore, players across the league seem to love him...and he's got organizational history...who better to take this team of young guys to the playoffs? Maybe it's right maybe it's wrong but it is not moronic. As for closing the book on the argument based on a couple of in-game strategic errors is just meatball fandom...I get frustrated too...but come on Soxtalk...If Fernando Tatis Jr with his 10 errors in 20 games, 1/3 K rate and .229 batting average were on this team most here would probably be screaming that we should have traded him for James Shields when we had the chance.

Yes I still think it was not "moronic" to hire him. As I said often it was not my choice...but it was not unreasonable. Maybe you are new to baseball Pete...we are a mile into the marathon so a bit premature to take a victory lap. Honestly I was expecting someone to come pee on my head over my questioning of Musgrove after he pitched a no hitter...and now he's lost three of four decisions, given up 8 runs in his last 8 innings...and averaged 4.5 inning in the last four starts. Great FIP though.

Its nice to have the wild card lead but I'm not getting over confident with 141 more games to play.

He got a record $5 million signing bonus at 16. Put up nearly a .900 OPS at AA at 19. Keith Law had him as #9 prospect in all of baseball in 2016 Baseball Prospectus had him as #5. He came in 5th in rookie of the year balloting. He had a +0.5 bWar at 23 and at +1 bWar at 24. Fan graphs had him with a positive FWar every year of his career except 2017. So yes the preponderance of evidence suggests he was always good at baseball. He was terrible last year and now he's gone...this is a ridiculous battle to be fighting.

One of the pervading themes on Soxtalk is that a 24 year old is a finished product. Mazara's bWAR went from -0.3 to 0.5 to 1.0 in the years before we traded for him. As a GM you have two routes to follow, paying for past performance or trying to extrapolate where a player is going to end up...an offensively and defensively improving 24 year old lefty seemed like a reasonable bet. It didn't work out...but no matter how many times you write "sucks" in a post...it was a reasonable calculated gamble.

Mazara was 5th in ROY voting at 21. At 22 he had 20 homers and 100 RBI's. He improved his OPS every year at Texas, and his dWar improved every year. He was a lefty hitting RF that fit in with the age group of our young core. Of course there were risks but it wasn't "stupid" to take a chance last year on him. I think an Eaton bounce back was as risky this year as a Mazara bounce back. Sometimes you get lucky.