Kenny Hates Prospects

QUOTE (Quinarvy @ Oct 3, 2009 -> 03:53 PM) D2 is my untouchable (See: Danks, John Contract Status) and I'd be very hesitant on dealing Alexei. Hudson I do everything I can to hold on to. But if he's the final piece and the Padres don't budge, I throw him in. I'd let them also pick one of Retherford or Nix, but not both. From there they can gut the farm if they so choose. There's a very real chance D2 never becomes anything more than a 4th OF. I doubt Johnny Danks is going to up and decide to leave so he can play wherever his brother is playing. Remember, Johnny Danks never came out and actually said he'd do something like that. This is just Sox fan speculation anyway. We've treated Jordan well and our FO knows the Danks family and I'm sure everyone involved is grown up enough to understand that sometimes you have to give up something good to get something good. Hudson is awesome and I'd love to keep him too, but we'd already be stretching it enough trying to get Adrian without including Floyd, Johnny Danks, CQ, or Beckham. Hudson would be a deal-breaker if we didn't include him. The Padres already have a SS so they probably wouldn't ask for both Retherford and Nix anyway. If I were them though I'd ask for CJ because he could be a real nice fit for their ballpark. A lot of Nix's power wouldn't show up in San Diego.

QUOTE (Quinarvy @ Oct 3, 2009 -> 03:32 PM) I'd take either one, but not with Rogers package. I had a thread, and my package was: Viciedo, Flowers, Shelby, Torres, Hynick, Nix. They might demand Hudson, and that's where I up it to an 8-for-2 deal by offering: Viciedo, Flowers, Shelby, Torres, Hynick, Shirek, Harrell, Nix for Fielder and Hardy. If they abo I then turn around and send Hardy out for a first base/catching prospect or BP arm, since he'll be expendable as Alexei is (in my opinion) the better player. But how in Phil Roger's mind is Hudson more untouchable than Gavin Floyd/John Danks? Prince is not a possibility. Kenny and Reinsdorf do not work with Scott Borass. For Gonzalez we'd have to start with something like Flowers + Viciedo + Hudson + D2 and then let the Padres have their pick of any 2-3 more out of our system. Or maybe we would have to throw in Alexei, but if we did I'd ask for Everth Cabrera back. And I'd do either deal in a heartbeat. If we make or win the Series in 2010 then the payroll is going to go up quite a bit, enough to keep our rotation together for a major run over the following 2-3 years. And I know that would be a s***load of talent to give up, and people (me included) hate the drain the farm, but winning titles at the MLB level always take priority and Gonzalez at about 25% of market value for 2 years in a row gives us a very good chance of doing that.

QUOTE (Jerksticks @ Oct 3, 2009 -> 03:21 PM) Now that's comedy 101. We don't need Prince Fielder, we need an athletic OF with plus offense Yeah, who needs a 25-year-old lefty stick hitting .297/.408/.593/1.002 with 44 HR and 138 RBI in the middle of their lineup? I mean what a waste. Maybe if he wasn't so fat he wouldn't have had to wait so long (the age of 23) to post his first 50 HR season. Stop the insanity! Get this man a powerbar and a good pair of running shoes.

QUOTE (South Side Fireworks Man @ Oct 3, 2009 -> 03:24 PM) Yes. After his playing career I'd like to see AJ stick with the White Sox organization either as a coach or in the broadcast booth where I think he'd be great. +1 for AJ love.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Oct 3, 2009 -> 02:09 PM) If someone's going to dramatically overpay I'm not going to say no, but there's a couple guys on this team that I wouldn't move unless I felt like I was raping the other team. Buehrle and AJ are at the top of that list. They just make everyone else on this team better. Agree. We'd need a lot more than what would make sense. AJ is a big part of winning in 2010. I also love the guy. IMO, our catching situation over the last 2 decades or so went like this: Fisk -> embarrassing black hole -> AJ.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Oct 3, 2009 -> 06:50 AM) Trade AJ and put Flowers behind the plate and you will also get a very nice draft pick in 2011. If Flowers were a lock to be a good major league player in 2010 maybe you think about trading AJ. Maybe. Trading AJ would be suicide. I thought for a while Ramirez may be a guy they traded, but with his contract, I don't think trading him makes much sense either. Agree with all of this.

QUOTE (bmags @ Oct 3, 2009 -> 03:17 PM) Man, Phil Rogers sucks. BUt are we the drama queens or the spend and purge management? Spend and purge. We picked up Rios and Peavy while letting 2009-10 free agents go. But apparently Kenny may have made those moves because he was bored. Phil Rogers : baseball knowledge :: pruno : wine

QUOTE (whitesoxbrian @ Oct 3, 2009 -> 12:42 PM) Danks, Jenks, Ely, and Torres? Wow that seems like a lot. It's just stupid. Danks is going nowhere. Kenny will have all kinds of competition if he shops Jenks. Qualls and Bell will be among those on the trading block, plus Mike Gonzalez, Rafael Soriano, Valverde, Wagner, Hoffman, etc. are all free agents. Maybe Huston Street is on the block too. There are all kinds of options, so it's not like Jenks would be the far-and-away #1 closer on the market which other teams will fight over. Kenny will not be able to get a major haul out of Jenks when he's projected to make $7M+ in arbitration and other guys should be out there as free agents for around that same price and only costing draft picks as opposed to top MLB/MiLB talent. And let's say the Sox offered Jenks and 3 pitching prospects for Fielder. There is no f***ing way the Brewers would even consider Ely or Torres in that group, and even if we made that offer we still wouldn't have enough. If the Sox want Fielder (which they won't unless he changes agents) then we're talking Jenks + Flowers + Hudson + more. Prince would command a major haul.

"John Danks or Gavin Floyd or Bobby Jenks and two or three other pitching prospects from those in the organization, a group headed by Lucas Harrell, Carlos Torres and John Ely." Like Jenks has anywhere near the value of Floyd or Danks... Like Carlos Torres and John Ely are "heading" any category of Sox pitching prospects... Like Kenny deals with Scott Borass... Like Kenny makes deals just because he's "bored"... STFU Phil Rogers. Go back to your baseless and absurd Peavy-for-Zambrano speculating already because as dumb as that idea is, it's still better than this one. Just going by what Phil Rogers has said, Stefan Gartrell, Juan Silverio, and Carlos Torres would probably be enough to get a young star. Drunken Score callers' trade ideas > Phil Rogers' trade ideas.

Perfect scenario for me: Game 1: Tigers lose to the Sox 15-0, Twins win 2-1 and take the momentum, now 1 game back Game 2: Tigers lose to the Sox 3-2 in a heartbreaker, but the Royals beat the Twins in the same fashion Game 3: Tigers lose to the Sox 18-3 with Brent Lillibridge and Ramon Castro combining for 9 RBI, Twins win to tie Tiebreaker: 17 innings of 1-1 baseball where both teams wear out their entire pitchings staffs ALCS: whoever wins the tiebreaker gets slaughtered by the Yankees in a 3-game sweep by a combined score of 46-2

QUOTE (SoxFan562004 @ Oct 2, 2009 -> 02:34 PM) absolutely... HUGE fight for both of those guys. Yep. I think Rashad is a little about upset about what Thiago did to his boy Jardine. If Thiago can beat Rashad that will be a huge feather in his cap. I still want to see Thiago Silva against Luiz Cane though. Those guys hate each other and have been wanting to fight for a long time, so matter what happens with Thiago-Rashad, I want to see that fight.

QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Oct 2, 2009 -> 02:48 PM) I watched last night, you would of thought that Roy Nelson blew up Kimbo with one shot with the way he acted after the fight. Dana was not impressed, though he seemed to be a little excited over Kimbo It's funny how quickly Dana has become a Kimbo fan. I know Kimbo brings ratings, and I also was impressed with his attitude and how he looked standing, but it's hard to be that thrilled about a guy who gives up the mount easier than a two-dollar whore and who allows himself to be crucifixed in two straight rounds.

QUOTE (docsox24 @ Oct 2, 2009 -> 01:55 PM) so one time in a 6 year career he got 6 hrs away and that makes him a promising 30/30 player?? He has power to all fields even though he hasn't shown it with us, and if you check out some of his highlight videos with the Jays you can see that for yourself. He's hit some bombs in that park to straight-away CF and LCF without the aid of wind. He's looked powerless here and it almost has to be something in his swing. He's always had the crouch so I'm not sure he needs to change that but I do wonder if he'd be able to take a stance like Dye since he's so tall. He's a project for Walker right now.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Oct 2, 2009 -> 01:45 PM) If he does, we're in great shape. If he doesn't...we're in real trouble. As a CF we just need about .280/.330/.450 out of him to be worth his contract IMO, and even with this year weighing his numbers down his career line is still .280/.330/.444. If he does a whole lot better than that he becomes a steal. Look at this way, his deal pays him what Rowand gets paid, less than what Hunter gets paid, about equal to GMJ, same as Fukudome, etc. Rios is younger than all those guys and is a better defender than all those guys, and has the ability to be a better offensive player over the length of his deal than all those guys. A good but not great Rios is still worth a lot given his defensive value and the type of dollars top CFers command in free agency. If you take just the total numbers Rios has put up in '06-'08 and average them, Rios would be about here: .297/.347/.492/.839 with 19 HR, 41 2B, 7 3B, 21/27 SB, 85 RBI Even an average of those three seasons would make him a steal IMO, and that's not even saying he lives up to his potential. He's young, he's in his prime, he's a plus defender at a premium position, and we gave up absolutely nothing - not even draft picks - to acquire him.

Rashad-Thiago Silva will be the co-main event for Belfort-Anderson. Two great fights right there.

QUOTE (greg775 @ Oct 2, 2009 -> 01:21 PM) Can people who want people like me to quit beating a dead horse and writing the same negative opinion of Rios over and over please please stop tempting people like me with posts like the above? Can we all just agree we hope Rios will turn it around next year? You all get the fact I've been down on Rios; I get the message that some of you really like him. He's always had potential for that, that's why he was drafted where he was and that's why he was given the extension he was. It's not that just some few Sox fans like him, it's that all of baseball sees him as a player with that kind of ability. Where the opinions differ is whether or not he'll play up to his potential and why.

QUOTE (greg775 @ Oct 2, 2009 -> 01:17 PM) Little surprised in all the Peavy love he didn't mention Clayton Richard ihas a 1.88 ERA over his last four starts, held the Dodgers to one hit over seven innings in his last start and has allowed 15 hits in his last 24 innings. Richard is 5-2 with a 4.08 ERA and the Padres are 9-3 in his starts. That deal couldn't have been made w/out including Richard? Yes I love Peavy. Yes I'm a Richard fan. Yes I realize 10 posters are now going to shrug off Richard as a prospect because he put up these numbers "in the National League." Probably not. Considering we traded for a Cy Young winner who is locked up for several years through his physical prime, we actually got a steal in that deal. It would have been nice to keep another lefty but we actually gave up very little compared to what Peavy is worth. I'm sure we could have kept Richard had we thrown in another bigger prospect, but then again maybe that deal has to wait until the offseason. Kenny and the Padres made that deal happen right at the deadline so if someone else had been involved other than the 4 players they had originally talked about then there might not have been enough time to get everything okay'd. And who knows, if we're forced to wait for the offseason, then Peavy still gets moved, but maybe he decides he'd rather play for the Angels (who are losing Lackey it looks like) or some other club. I'm just happy we're able to get Peavy for what we did. We gave up good talent but we paid dimes on the dollar.

QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Oct 2, 2009 -> 12:34 PM) I agree with Pena eating up Linebrink innings, but not necessarily with Randy Williams. Randy Williams in my mind was necessary more because of Jenks failures and Thornton having to assume more of the closer role, removing Ozzies lefty specialist from the 7th and 8th innings for the most part. Yeah Williams would have still been out there as a lefty but Ozzie used him as a regular reliever instead of a lefty specialist quite a bit because he had nothing out there. It's a lot easier for one guy to save a bad bullpen than for one guy to save a bad offense. I get that Rios has sucked for us offensively, but he helped us on defense, and we weren't going to do much of anything anyway with the middle of our order being so unbelievably terrible.

QUOTE (ChiSox_Sonix @ Oct 2, 2009 -> 12:18 PM) That's a shocker. There hasn't been a less impressive first impression than Rios in a long time. I don't know how it could be anyone but him. For all the s*** Cowley deservedly gets, this article is pretty much spot on for the most part. Pena stepping up would have would have meant a lot less of Linebrink and Randy Williams. IMO that would have helped us more than Rios could have.

QUOTE (santo=dorf @ Oct 2, 2009 -> 12:17 PM) Aside from standard 5x5 format fantasy baseball reasons, what's the big deal about a guy going 30/30 in 650 at-bats while possibly putting up a low OBP and sub-.800 OPS? It's the Soriano argument. I'd like to see Rios hit 30 homers and have 30 stolen bases in a season, but I hope it doesn't take him 700 PA's and have the same SB% as he's had with the Sox. He's never hit 30 home runs in a season (only cracked 20 once with 24 in almost 700 PA's) and peaked with 32 SB's with almost 680 PA's. Rios is not the type of hitter to post a sub-.800 OPS in a 30HR season. If he hits 30 bombs his OPS will be well over .800. The closest he has come was in '07 and he hit 43 2B with 24 HR and his OPS was .852. Rios is nothing like Soriano. Yes Rios plays a ton of games. Why is that a bad thing? Edit: Also, as long Soriano has been a regular player, this season is one of only 2 where he's had a sub-.800 OPS.

Agree with his awards except the "Least Impressive First Impression" part. Rios is a worthy candidate, but I'd have given that one to Tony Pena. If Pena could have stepped up we could have won a few more ballgames.

QUOTE (elrockinMT @ Oct 2, 2009 -> 11:36 AM) The Ole Hawkeroo has been around the game since dirt was held in the hand of the Almighty himself. I always take what Hawk says as gospel. Agree. The earth was created in 1941 and that's why I don't believe in Abraham Lincoln. When people tell me that scientists have evidence of Abraham Lincoln's existence, I just pull out the good old table thumper and ask them to find me the passage where it mentions Abraham Lincoln.

QUOTE (danman31 @ Oct 1, 2009 -> 10:03 PM) How do you compare Leesman to another groundball guy in Sauer? Better K rate, much better BB rate, slightly better groundball rate. Granted, Sauer turned 23 in August, so you wonder how much better he can get. He's also not a lefty which makes a big difference, but Leesman is a guy you had in your top 15 rankings in the postseason list and Sauer outside the top 30. Age isn't a huge factor with me when it comes to pitchers. I'm pretty sure I saw Sauer pitch before we drafted him (or maybe right after?) and if I'm thinking of the right guy, he throws that sinker from a low 3/4 and I do like that a lot out of righty relief prospects because if they have control then they've got a decent chance of becoming righty specialists. I like Kyle Bellamy too, also Drew O'Neill (probably my favorite as he reportedly can touch 95 and is another heavy sinkerballer from the same arm angle) but I don't think I ranked them either. I'm guessing the majority of Sauer's K's are off deception and control (.260BAA, 8.3 K/9 vs. RH; .338, 5.8K/9 vs. LH) and his groundball rate is very good which shows he can do enough to be viewed as a good righty specialist prospect. But I don't see him as a starter. O'Neill is a little more of a power arm and of the 3 IMO O'Neill would be the likeliest to get a chance as a result. I wouldn't say I'm really down on Sauer or anything, but I just see Sauer as possibly another Wassermann in the sense that he may be able to thrive in a righty specialist role somewhere (I still do like Ehren BTW), but most organizations want guys who can do well versus lefties too, and those organizations that are bad enough to take on guys who have been in the minors for quite a while always seem to want reclamation project power arms. I've suggested before about Wassermann being a good fit for the A's or Rays because they like those kinds of guys, but it remains to be seen if Ehren gets another chance. And I just see Sauer in the same boat one day. Leesman being the lefty is the main difference and it's a huge difference. Lefties don't need to be quite as good as righties to stick around and no matter what organization they're in they don't ever seem to have the mountains to climb that righties do. I also like what I've read about his changeup and as we all know, righties in general often have a lot of trouble with lefties with good changeups. Leesman IMO is the better bet to remain a starter for longer and the better bet to get a long look in a bullpen if he can't make it as a starter. Plus the fact that Coop likes him enough to single him out for compliments makes me think he's on Kenny's board somewhere. Leesman as far as I know can't touch 96 or anything like Clayton Richard can, but supposedly he's been consistently in the low-90's and for a lefty with sink and the potential for an above-average change that's good enough to shoot up our list of SP prospects. If I had to bet though I'd say Leesman ends up in a bullpen somewhere, but he should be considered a starter until they move him. Right now our system is really, really lacking starter prospects and of the guys we got, IMO after Hudson there's no one that jumps right out as a definite, sure-fire #3+ starting prospect right now. I still like Upchurch the most but he got crushed this year and he needs to put together a better campaign than that. Infante has potential but has a very long way to go with his secondary stuff, and Holmberg and Heidenreich are still too young and raw although they have the potential to be pretty good ones. I like Shirek's chances as a reliever and I still really like Harrell's arm, but he's probably always going to struggle with his control and as a result I don't think it'll work out for him as a reliever at all. IMO he's either going to suddenly get it and become a #3 or he'll be a 5-6 inning pitcher/spot starter who struggles in the first couple of innings and runs up his pitch count before finding it later. Griffith might be our best one but I'd like to see how it goes for him next year and hear more about what his stuff is like now after coming back from surgery. They took away his slider so that should help extend his career, although the slider was his strikeout pitch. I'd like to know where his velocity is at next season and how his curve is coming along. But there's just not a lot there right now so that's why I put Leesman so high. You could probably make an argument for a lot of guys. In general I don't rank relievers or guys I see as relievers high unless they are serious power arms and/or are very close to being ready. I've been ranking Nathan Jones as our best pitching prospect outside of Hudson because he has closers stuff and is throwing strikes, and as a result he could be up here very soon, even if he was in W-S this year. Behind him I have trouble deciding.

Agreed. Money Inc. all the way (except vs. the Headshrinkers - I've got a soft spot for Captain Lou Albano).

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Oct 1, 2009 -> 08:47 PM) The Experts always pick Cleveland, Minny, or Detroit. It'll probably be Minny and Detroit, between Cabrera/Verlander and Morneau/Mauer, the bigger names are in the other cities. Someone will always pick the royals. BP will project us to finish with 75 wins because it'll expect we'll have a terrible offense. Even the "experts" are going to have a hard time picking Slowey-Blackburn-Baker-???-??? or Verlander-Jackson-Porcello-???-??? over Peavy-Buehrle-Floyd-Danks-Garcia.