Kenny Hates Prospects

QUOTE (lostfan @ Sep 29, 2009 -> 08:25 PM) I feel like curb-stomping kittens yet I keep coming back for more. How could anyone possibly confuse cute, innocent, furry little kittens with Swisher defenders?!?! I mean, I'd rather clean a nasty wet kitten turd out from between the keys of my keyboard than type another long post addressing this topic. Maybe you do need to stop viewing this thread.

QUOTE (greg775 @ Sep 29, 2009 -> 08:09 PM) Good post. You have good logical arguments and facts about players, so I'm a little more hopeful about Rios after reading that. I still don't think I'm normally that negative, with the exception of most of the month of September. I probably should have let those who still had hope following that road trip have their fun, but I wasn't the only person posting that we were finished. I'd have to go back and check, but I don't think I'd call Freddy a bum, because I usually am extremely loyal to those Sox who helped us win it all. Hopefully next year will be our year. If Liney and Pena do fix those things you suggested it certainly would help our bullpen. Okay, that's settled. Friends? I hope Linebrink and Pena turn it around as well. I think Linebrink at least will have another productive half like has been the case for the last several years. If that happens I hope we're able to trade him, even if we get back nothing in the process and still have to eat about $1M or so of his 2011 contract. I think we'll all have a lot more to be positive about in 2010.

QUOTE (SoxFan562004 @ Sep 29, 2009 -> 12:45 PM) WEC is planning on running a show every month in 2010, so I would imagine they will add a little depth to their roster. Good to hear, the lighter weights usually put on a good show That flyweight division they're bringing in was supposed to be debuting around now, but the Henderson-Cerrone pushback and Versus losing major platforms should end up delaying it. I hope they get Versus back on everywhere or at least can find a way to work around the Versus contract, like using the Versus network for UFN-type shows and putting the title fights on UFC PPV's or something. They need to come up with a plan to keep their top talent happy ($$$) and continue growing their audience.

QUOTE (Jenks Heat @ Sep 29, 2009 -> 03:33 PM) That could end up hurting the Pirates in front of an arbitor not help them. You get to argue your case. The Duke camp could use an argument that his numbers would be higher if the gold glove centerfielder was still with the team as well as the lead-off hitter and what not. Duke will be traded before the start of next season anyway. Agree. Capps will be gone too, and probably others.

Which ones would you add to the 40-man though, JPN? Most of those guys won't get claimed by anyone anyway, not even in the minor league phase. And I know you like David Cook, but you know the Sox don't, so wouldn't you rather see him get an opportunity elsewhere?

Swisher freed up money to pay Dayan Viciedo. Dayan Viciedo is a much, much, much better prospect than anyone traded in the first deal, and Dayan Viciedo's trade value alone is worth much, much, much more than Nick Swisher. So, we won. PLEASE let this topic die.

QUOTE (greg775 @ Sep 29, 2009 -> 01:58 PM) Bolt, I can't believe you think Dotel is a "great relief pitcher." As far as this post, you had a nice call on Freddy. I think he's been very good, excellent. With the Rios thing and constant reminders we weren't going to win the division, most of my posts were in response to post praising Rios and response to those insisting we had a good chance. Why shouldn't I give my opinion? I enjoyed the season greatly until that road trip where suddenly the season was over. You'll never convince me Rios wasn't acquired for what he can do NOW as well as the future. We were in it when we got him and he failed miserably to do anything positive. Why would I lay off already when he was making out after out and our season was going down the drain not all because of him, but he truly SUCKED. I'm ready to give him a clean slate for next year and maybe he'll figure it out. I still don't think he's worth the money but we'll find out next year. At what he's making he should be one of our best players. I'm not going to dog him in April and May because at that point the season will just be starting to play itself out. His failure this year was in crunch time and he was supposed to give us a huge lift toward the postseason. I simply couldn't see how many people bagged on Dye and not Rios? Why aren't you mad at those who day after day bashed Dye? Face it, you just don't like my style of posting. Plenty of other people have stupid rants about players, especially the s*** written about Dye this year and Konerko last year. Let's see people turn on AJ if he hits .200 the first half next year. If he does, I won't be one bagging on him cause of his track record HERE. Rios showed nothing when we were in the race and got what he deserved. His track record was with another team. Dye has a track record with our team and fans threw him under the bus big time. Good call on Freddy, though. He has been a pleasant surprise. If he reports to ST in shape and not fat, I hope he earns a starting spot. And after seeing Torres pitch a few times I'm afraid you may be right about his stuff. He did impress that one start though. 1. Okay, I went too far in calling you a troll. I apologize for that. 2. Unless we're pretty much mathematically eliminated, or unless we're a good distance back in a much better year for the division, you don't need to keep saying we're not going to win over and over and over again. Everyone knew it was going to take both a great run from the Sox plus bad baseball from both Minnesota and Detroit to win this thing, but as unlikely as it was, there was still reason to hope. You didn't have to be a Negative Nancy and repeat to others the same things they already knew. You're free to state your opinion and you're free to argue and everything else, but the constant, useless negativity really gets annoying. 3. I didn't make a good call on Garcia. I saw him pitch for us in 2006 and I watched him have success with limited fastball velocity. Anyone who saw him pitch that year should have known that, if he could get his velocity back into an acceptable range and get back some command on his breaking stuff, he would become effective again in the Major Leagues. It's like, I can say right now that if Scott Linebrink gets the ball down in the zone more and only goes high on occasion to set up his split, and if Tony Pena can gain enough control of his fastball to work off of that pitch instead of his slider, then both are going to be very effective relievers again. That doesn't mean it's going to happen anytime soon, but they still both have ability. I don't believe I ever predicted success for Freddy, I just pointed out that people shouldn't count Freddy out until they had at least seen what his velocity was like. 4. 2009 was not a main reason for Rios coming here. I shouldn't have to do any convincing beyond pointing to the Peavy deal, because when we got Peavy we figured he wouldn't have been able to help until at least early September anyway, and even then, we'd have had to prepare for a couple rough outings while he got into a rhythm again. And Rios also was having the worst season of his career, so why him if it's for 2009? If Kenny wanted 2009-type moves he would have done things similar to what the Tigers did, bringing in soon-to-be free agents like Aubrey Huff and Jarrod Washburn. I'm sure he could have gotten Randy Winn for CF and some other starter like Garland or something for about nothing, but he didn't make those kinds of moves. Instead Kenny added two very large contracts to the payroll that extend out for several seasons, all the while knowing that there was a very real possibility he would get *little to no actual value* out of either player in 2009. No GM makes moves like this with 2009 as any kind of focus. Of course Kenny will tell the fans he made the moves to win now just as much as in the future, that's called paying lip service. Kenny is making his run in 2010 and that's when he'll be looking for Rios to become a key contributer. 5. The Dye situation is a *completely* different situation than Rios'. Dye is a veteran who was given a contract by the Sox to contribute right now. Dye is supposed to help anchor our lineup. Rios OTOH wouldn't have even come here if he hadn't been in a career-worst season, because not even JP Ricciardi is dumb enough to let a healthy, productive Alex Rios go for nothing. Rios also is just entering his prime now, unlike Dye who is in decline. 6. It's not that I don't like your style of posting. It's that don't like reading the same negative things over and over about how so-and-so is garbage, and about how no matter what happens we're not going to win, yadda yadda yadda. Rios is not garbage. He has some work to do to get back to the type of player he had been in previous years, but he is not garbage, and it would have been stupid to expect Rios to do for us in 2009 any better than he had been doing in Toronto, which offensively wasn't very good at all. Rios ended up doing worse for us than in Toronto, but that happens quite a bit with new additions, and it is nothing short of moronic to write a talent like Rios off because of a really bad second half in the worst season of his career.

QUOTE (striker62704 @ Sep 29, 2009 -> 11:10 AM) I think Sox fans give Cooper more credit than he deserves. If he "fixes" players then why did Vazquez, Aardsma, Masset and MacDougal struggle for us (by varying degrees) and excel else where? Do you think their fans are saying their pitching coach "fixed" them? Why didn't Sisco succeed with the Sox? Sometimes a change a scenery is all that is needed. Sometimes patience, which our organization lacks, IMO. I'm not sure Cooper really "fixed" anything with Carrasco, and if anyone did, it was probably Richard Dotson in Charlotte. The Royals didn't see Carrasco as a starter, so he went over to Japan and while he was there he got hurt. Then he got healthy, came back, and found a niche in the bullpen. He's a great baseball success story actually, one of the rare ones. Getting cut from an MLB team that doesn't a see a future in you, then coming back from the Japan death tour and an (elbow?) injury, then coming back up through the minors again to become one of the top LR out there right now - great story. But to the post, Coop can't give Javy a brain. MacDougal and Sisco couldn't repeat their deliveries with any kind of consistency, so that's not much to work with. Aardsma lost all confidence in himself and was still walking guys at an ugly pace when he was with the Red Sox - and BTW the Giants, Cubs, Sox, and Red Sox gave up on him too, so it wasn't just Coop. Aardsma is still walking guys at a frightening pace with the Mariners and it's highly unlikely that Aardsma has "found" anything. He'll be terrible next year IMO. Look at his carrer BB/9, look at his career WHIP, and notice that everything is pretty much where it normally is with Aardsma expect that WHIP this year, which is only a product of his H/9 ratio. That H/9 ratio is going to skyrocket once again in 2010 because he's still wild as f*** in the zone. Once it does he'll be right back to the old Aardsma. I don't know about Masset, but others here have said the Reds are letting him air it out like he had apparently been doing with Texas. I don't know if that is the case, but Masset seems to have found some control. Control of that fastball was his main problem because he has enough velocity and movement on it to get people out if he can throw good strikes, so maybe they made a small mechanical adjustment in Cincinnati or something. But of all those names, Masset is the only guy you could make an argument for Coop/the Sox missing the boat on.

Also, add John Lujan to the MiLB FA list and Santo Luis to the Rule-5 list. I think I added those guys in the other thread but forgot to add them here.

I'd hang on to (and shop): Hynick Omogrosso (if we think he still has a shot at a career) Marrero Gartrell Shelby I'd also look to sign Cook and Sergio Santos. The other guys I'd let look for jobs elsewhere since they won't be getting one here. Anthony Carter, Santo Luis, Miguel Socolovich, Jake Rasner, and Derek Rodriguez would be my picks to be taken.

QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ Sep 29, 2009 -> 11:20 AM) I didn't see the DSL where I looked, so I missed that, but as a foreign signee I am not sure how that works. So, maybe? I think the rules apply to both non-drafted free agents and members of the Rule-4 draft so he should be eligible. But it doesn't matter anyway, he shouldn't be getting claimed unless it is in the minor league phase. I believe someone could claim him but then they would have to send him to AA or higher or else return him. I imagine the claim fees alone will keep a lot of players where they are. Also Burdie and DRod are both Rule-5 guys, not FA.

According to MLBTradeRumors, Zach Duke was one out away from a complete game last night, having thrown 103 pitches, and in an 11-1 ballgame, and the Pirates pulled him. Now the team president is saying that they didn't make the move to weaken Duke's argument during salary arbitration. There's no reason for pulling that s*** in the Major Leagues. What a f***ing joke.

QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ Sep 29, 2009 -> 09:25 AM) Also, here are the dates they will release the lists for other leagues we have teams in... South Atlantic League October 2 Carolina League October 6 Southern League October 8 International League October 13 And might have some names worth watching, since we have gotten some players from them recently... Independent Leagues October 15 It would be funny if Hudson ranked in all of those.

It probably doesn't matter much whether some guys are still here or not, we'd probably have to sift through a bunch of minor league transactions for that (can MiLB FA declare FA at the end of the MiLB playoffs?). It's more or less for completion, and we'll only be talking about a few names in there anyway.

QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ Sep 29, 2009 -> 10:52 AM) I updated the list in the first post. Burdie is not yet eligible, and I removed a few more that are no longer in the org. I am not sure if JVB is still around. Burdie should be eligible too: http://www.baseball-reference.com/minors/p...id=burdie001cha 4 years to evaluate him, began his career at 20 in 2006. The DSL counts too, right? The rules just say "evaluate" so it should. He was still in our system then.

Updated list I'll remove those then ...updated again I feel dumb adding guys like Link and Santeliz, but if you're going to add Harrell then you might as well add those guys. None of them will be let go for free unless they're hurt. Marquez should be dropped though.

Add this to your current list and it should be the full list. I'm not sure about Luis Sierra though. MiLB/MLB FA: Javier Colina Jared Price Adam Ricks Kyle Aselton Mike Johnston Matt Zaleski Andy Cannizaro Wilson Betemit Keith Ginter Justin Knoedler Miguel Negron Javier Castillo Mike Restovich Eider Torres Kelvin Jimenez Jon Van Benschoten Sergio Santos Ryan Braun David Cook Ehren Wassermann Fernando Hernandez Rule-5 eligible: Robbie Hudson CJ Lang Ricky Brooks Jacob Marceaux Ryan Rote Miguel Socolovich Justin Fuller Michael Grace Salvador Sanchez Luis Sierra?? (signed in '05 at 17, 5 evaluation years) Charlis Burdie Jake Rasner Matt Inouye James Albury Johny Celis Orlando Santos Joucer Martinez Stefan Gartrell Brandon Hynick John Shelby Christian Marrero Tyson Corley Justin Cassel Derek Rodriguez Those on 40-man roster who would qualify: Carlos Torres (MiLB FA) Lucas Harrell (Rule-5) Cole Armstrong (MiLB FA) Jon Link (Rule-5) Clevelan Santeliz (Rule-5) Jeff Marquez (MiLB FA) Jhonny Nunez (Rule-5)

NSS, does missing a season due to injury still count towards an evaluation year or a MiLB FA year? Also, I left off Armstrong and Harrell because they are on our 40, but Armstrong should be dropped. Harrell will stay or be traded, his arm is too good to let go for nothing.

QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ Sep 29, 2009 -> 08:06 AM) Well first, I think some of the guys on his list are not eligible yet - Corley and Johnson for example. Corley will be eligible, but you're right about Garrett Johnson. He was 18 when he signed so the Sox will have to add him by next year to protect him. Teams have 5 years to evaluate a prospect who signs his first pro contract at 18, and 4 years to evaluate someone who signs at 19 or older. So that means we're talking about 19+ guys from the 2006 draft and everyone from the 2005 draft and before. Anyone taken in the 2004 draft or signed undrafted in 2004 or prior should become a minor league free agent this year. Maybe we should just make the full list and put it on FutureSox or something? I just posted this because I was curious about who we'd have to add.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Sep 29, 2009 -> 12:20 AM) There are also quite a few guys who are currently on the 40-man that could very easily be removed. Right now, I think it's very possible that Marquez, Williams, Fields, and Wise could all be gone, and that's not including free agents (Dotel, Dye, Castro). The Sox will lose some they'd like to keep, and that's just part of the game. Given how much Ozzie has used Williams and Wise I wouldn't be surprised if they kept those two for some weird reason, but both Marquez and Fields are definitely candidates to be gone. I'd probably bet on both of those guys being gone. Also, this spring will be the make it or break it spring for Lucas Harrell. I like his arm so I hope he opens some eyes. If Harrell isn't traded over the offseason, then 2010 will be his third season on the 40-man, so something has to give there.

Also, Sergio Santos will be a FA, Santo Luis (of the 100mph fastball but no control) will be Rule-5 eligible, and then there are lots of other guys who don't matter that would fit in one of these categories, like Matt Zaleski and those kinds of guys. I think Miguel Socolovich will be available too in the Rule-5. The Sox, like seemingly every year, are in position to lose a few players.

QUOTE (danman31 @ Sep 28, 2009 -> 04:29 PM) Agree on all fronts. Is it just me or do the Sox have more marginal value or possible MLB talent MiLB free agent/Rule V eligible guys than normal? I think you're right. Like Balta said, we always seem to have a guy or two, but unlike players like Jay Marshall and stuff, we've got a few this year that could actually go somewhere and really compete for a job. Some of our better or bigger name prospects/non-prospects that should be eligible for the Rule-5 this year should we not add them to the roster: Brandon Hynick Brian Omogrosso Kyle McCulloch Matt Long Christian Marrero Anthony Carter John Shelby Justin Cassell Lee Cruz Tyson Corley Garrett Johnson Stefan Gartrell Jordan Cheetham Fernando Hernandez Derek Rodriguez Beyond that, both Wes Whisler and Donny Lucy should be free agents. I also believe that if Carlos Torres were to be removed from the 40-man then he too would be a minor league free agent (but he'd have to go through waivers anyway) so I could see the Sox making a decision between Torres and Hynick, since neither should project to join our staff. So clearly we've got a few guys here. Hynick, Marrero, Shelby, and Gartrell would be my guesses. I don't think anyone else gets added. It's a shame about Omogrosso because not only would he have been added to our roster, but he'd have had a great shot at making the ballclub next year. Edit: Actually Justin Edwards won't be involved as he signed at 18. So I'm taking him off the list here.

QUOTE (SoxAce @ Sep 28, 2009 -> 11:31 PM) He definitely didn't stop.. get it get it. +1

For all the s*** around here about ex-Royals relievers, we've sure found a gem in Carrasco. This guy is such a huge benefit to our staff.

It's not all that difficult to beat the Indians these days. That said, great job by Johnny Danks.