Kenny Hates Prospects

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Sep 21, 2009 -> 12:03 PM) Pretty much my thoughts as well. KW might go to someone like the Padres or Nationals and figure out a way to do a 3 or 4 for 1 swap to clear some of the chaff like Fields and Egbert who, like it or not, we just don't have room for, Torres will be kept as an option unless someone offers us something legit for us (Which could happen, frankly), and the other guys...I don't see them moving any of the guys we really think could be top level guys (Mitchell, D2: the Mighty Danks, Viciedo, Hudson, Flowers) because of the amount we have invested in them and I don't think the next tier (CJ, Morel) have established themselves enough yet to make them genuinely worth a lot to another team. If there's a shakeup this offseason, it's going to be something surprising happening at the big league level. One of the If's being moved, or a major bullpen shakeup. Something like that. Of course, KW has this odd habit of shocking all of us. I don't know though, Morel and CJ especially have turned into a couple pretty nice prospects. They're not star prospects and probably never will be viewed that way, so if they're going to dramatically increase their value it'll probably have to come by performing well in the Majors. But they're both solid players with versatility who can hit for average and run. CJ could be ready right now, Morel maybe by this time next year. Both players appear to be blocked and are among our better 'spects after the 2009 trades and promotions. I don't see either player as the centerpiece of a huge deal or anything, but they could go as a centerpiece for a guy like Coco Crisp, Jeremy Hermida, or Cody Ross, all of whom I could see Kenny targeting over the offseason. As for the big guys, you just can't tell with Kenny. Adrian Gonzalez is going to be out there and I WANT that guy, and I'm sure Kenny wouldn't mind him hitting 3rd in our lineup either. If I were Kenny I'd give up two of Viciedo/Flowers/Alexei and any 4 other trade-eligible players on the farm for him provided we could get an extension done. Adrian could hit 40+ HR and get on at a .400+ clip in the Cell for the next 4-5 years or more, and from the left side of the plate to boot. It would be like having a prime Jim Thome in our lineup instead of the past-his-prime-but-still-awesome Jim Thome we had here. Just imagine that unstoppable force hitting behind Beckham and in front of a healthy CQ. And the great thing would be that he wouldn't get expensive until 2012 when he'd have to start an extension, so we'd be able to fit him into the longterm payroll plans.

Nope. Linebrink should at least be good for one first half. The key then becomes, trade him while he's getting the job done with an ERA in the 2's and offer to cover a mil or two off his 2011 contract, then let him implode in somebody else's bullpen. If we had to trade Linebrink in a bad contract deal I'd at least like to break even salary-wise and do it without f***ing up the clubhouse.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Sep 21, 2009 -> 11:06 AM) At least to me, I get the impression that KW really likes to trade guys when he thinks their value is peaking. Thus...McCarthy gets moved for Danks before his value goes down. Carter, Poreda, Richard go for Peavy and all 3 of them struggle after leaving. Allen was moved after having a very good season. Gio got moved after a very good season. Ditto DLS. Morel, Griffith, Gonzalez all seem to me to have a strong likelihood of going up in value next eyar. Retherford...maybe, I really just don't know what the org thinks of him. The 2 guys who I'd say have peaked in value right now are Hudson and Flowers. Problem is...we really need both of them. I think it's probably more likely that KW will shake up the big league roster than KW will move minor leaguers at this point. I agree with this in theory, but DLS should have been one of those guys looked at to increase value as well. Imagine what DLS would have brought us if he had stayed healthy and dominated in Birmingham. Kenny is just hard to predict sometimes, and I honestly believe that when Kenny wants a player bad, he doesn't really think about whether or not he's selling at peak value, he just gives the other team the players they want and schedules the press conference.

QUOTE (JPN366 @ Sep 21, 2009 -> 11:53 AM) McCulloch, Fields, Egbert, Armstrong & Salvador Sanchez. Won't get much in return, maybe some lower level depth. I'm usually 99.9 % right. I want that smiley! LOL, JPN players have to have value in order for Kenny to trade them for good Major League players. I know you love all our prospects but I'm just trying to be realistic as far as who Kenny is going to trade. If we traded McCulloch for instance we'd have to pay for shipping. But you can have a smiley anyway

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Sep 21, 2009 -> 11:37 AM) How much of that is because of the filler though? Josh Fields is going to be gone, for example, because he's out of options and just doesn't have a role on this infield right now. Unless they can move him to OF. Egbert, Torres, Harrell may be in similar boats; packaged for a reliever or something like that to clear some space for others to move up. Link, Nunez probably will get shots at the last spot in the bullpen. etc. I don't know if Egbert or Torres are going to have much value beyond that of another Broadway-for-Castro or Anderson-for-Kotsay type deal where we basically send a name over for a spare part who has been/will be DFA'd. Harrell could go but he has the stuff to pitch out of the bullpen, so I imagine the Sox will at least experiment with that first. The Sox should send as many relievers as possible to ST next season because there should be at least one spot open for a righty. My guess is Egbert will probably be dropped from the 40-man and end up with a new team in ST, Torres will be kept on as an emergency option in AAA, Fields will be traded for low-level projects like Aardsma was or he'll be the throw-in in a bigger deal, and Harrell will be among those in ST 2010 trying to find a role in the bullpen.

QUOTE (SoxFanForever @ Sep 20, 2009 -> 03:45 PM) From the sounds of things I've been hearing, Mirko is all but done. I don't think he has the desire to fight anymore. I can't say as I blame him. He is 35 years old and this is a young mans sport. Between amateur boxing, kickboxing in K-1, Pride and UFC the guy has accumulated over 100 fights. I think is body is just worn down at this point. Watching fights from his early days in Pride in his 20's to his fights now is like watching two completely different fighters. It's a sad day for me because he is basically the guy who made me a fan of MMA to begin with. I remember watching his Pride fights online and loving all the K-1 videos as well. It really is a shame to see. I'd just like to see some up and comer take out Brock. I was hoping it would be Mirko but that doesn't seem like it is going to happen. There's some pretty great veterans still around who are older than Mirko. Even though his physical skills have deteriorated, I think it's more of a desire/confidence thing. He just doesn't want to be the aggressor anymore and that was kind of his whole game. You can't just sit back and wait for the big shot and expect to win at the highest levels because you're going to accumulate damage and get down on the scorecards early, and by the time you can land that big shot, you're probably going to be tired and not have a lot behind it. There's still guys out there CC could beat if he had that killer instinct back. I mean, yeah the UFC HW division has gotten a TON better, but he could still beat most of the TUFers and guys like McCully, Hague, Russow, etc. And he could still put on some wars with guys like Rothwell and Buentello if he really wanted to. And really, how important is the belt anyway? If you want to fight and you can still entertain the fans then there's no reason to quit. But I think CC is done because he's done mentally. Physically there are younger guys around who are in much worse shape than he is at 35, even if he looks small and tired in there.

QUOTE (MHizzle85 @ Sep 20, 2009 -> 03:12 PM) After watching CroCop last night, I'm no longer interested in seeing him fight. Dos Santos does look like he has it going & I'd give him the winner of Cain/Rothwell, maybe even Kongo/Mir. Griffin looked good, I'd like to see him in there against Diaz. Oh, Daley and his left hook made a brand new fan outta me. Real question is do you give him another top 10 guy at 170? Or do you give him a fight to kinda show what else he's got. They'll give Daley another top fighter. He's been around for a while and most notably fought Jake Shields in EliteXC (was submitted in that fight). Daley has the stand-up to give anyone fits but his ground game has been holding him back as far as being a top-10 guy. I'm sure the UFC loves having him because he's an exciting fighter and is a Brit, and he is also a fresh contender to a division that GSP has been destroying, but I think he's going to have a really, really hard time getting past the wrestlers like Kos and Fitch. I could see the UFC trying to advance him by setting up fights with other guys who are primarily strikers, like Swick and Alves.

Don't stop belieeeeevarrrrrghggghgoddamnit...

QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ Sep 21, 2009 -> 08:00 AM) Well that article is pretty bad. Wrong ages, wrong names, players who aren't in the org anymore, and WTF is someone thinking putting Cole Armstrong and Justin Fuller in the Top 20 names? Oh, and WE DIDN'T SIGN MORGADO. Yikes. FS will be releasing its Top 25 list around the end of the season (we publish in late March, mid-season after the draft, and post-season), which will be a little more meaningful and accurate. Understatement perhaps? Just kidding. That list is awesome and should be circulated to the other 29 GM's with the official SoxTalk Golden Seal of approval immediately in preparation for the Winter Meetings. Edit: BTW if come December someone posts a link to a bleacher report article saying the Sox are in discussions for a superstar and the names going back are John Ely, Brent Morel, Carlos Torres, and Jake Egbert we'll know who to blame.

What prospects will Kenny trade this offseason? Make your predictions for the top 5 prospects which are most likely to be sent packing and whoever is most right at the end of the offseason wins an internet smiley from me. The prize looks like this: Mine are: 1. CJ Retherford - he should be a hot topic this offseason and there's a logjam (but I'd really like to keep this guy) 2. Nevin Griffith - could see him going in a 3-for-1 type deal 3. Brent Morel - good as gone if Gordon stays at 3B 4. Tyler Flowers - if we make a blockbuster then Flowers will have to head the package 5. Miguel Gonzalez - just put himself on the map, so that means Kenny is probably going to send him out

Depending on what Bobby's raise looks like it probably makes the most sense to keep him. If Bobby gets about $8M or so then we'd have to spend that on another closer anyway and I'm not certain we'd receive in trade what would be equal to a comp pick. Now if the Sox could sign a closer to a 2 year/$16M deal without forfeiting a first rounder because of overall record, and then deal Bobby for other pieces, I'd do that. That would mean the Sox would essentially give up a 2nd rounder, gain cost certainty for the next 2 years out of the closer's spot, plus get back whatever Jenks would fetch. But, that series of events would be unlikely.

Somebody sticky this Mahf***a.

Somebody lost his love last niiiiiiiiiight.

Jake Egbert is going to win a Cy Young some day.

I never thought I would say this, but Dana should make CroCop vs. Kimbo Slice as a UFN main event or something. After last night that fight not only makes a lot of sense for both but would be a huge draw. I love watching JDS fight and I knew he was going to win because he's far and away the better fighter right now, but CroCop really looked bad out there. He took a lot of punishment and was constantly in retreat mode before verbally submitting. CC's counter attacks didn't even look planned, it looked like an injured dog just trying to stay alive. It's like he came into the cage not even planning to fight and then he only attempted to counter because he wanted to avoid being KO'd. I think that headkick from GG took every bit of confidence and desire he had and now CC is fighting only for pride. But that said, a fight with Kimbo just makes $en$e.

QUOTE (greg775 @ Sep 18, 2009 -> 01:06 PM) I show up after wins, too. Give me a break. I watched the entire extra innings of the Mariners game and wanted us to win. I'm serious with my question. We never talk about the Twins and they are about ready to play for the marbles. They are only four back in loss column and get to play the Tigers. I really was curious if people though Det would lose out to the Twinks. Duh! Look at the title of the thread you're in! The Tigers are already cursed, they're not winning s***. If the Sox refuse to take what's theirs then Minny gladly will. The final two weeks here could come down to a battle of managers, and if it does then Gardy will whoop Ozzie's ass like he always does. But what SHOULD happen is the Sox should wake the f*** up and start playing like they're capable of, because talent-for-talent we're the best club in this divison.

QUOTE (SoxFan562004 @ Sep 18, 2009 -> 04:47 PM) Just watched the weigh-ins, man I am looking forward to this card. Don't forget we get to prelims on Spike starting at 8pm too. Belfort has to drop 1/4 pound, which I imagine he'll do pretty quickly. Franca/Griffin, Kammpmann/Daley, Trigg/Kos, Cro Cop/Dos Santos and Belfort/Franklin for the main card. Those are some potentially good match-ups. (I know some of the spellings are wrong, but just doing it off the top of my head) Belfort finally made weight after 4 tries, little interesting since I believe he has stated that he's focused on 185 and struggled to get to 196 for catch weight, but that means he'll just have to change his camp routine going into a 185. This could be one of the more entertaining cards of the year. Franca-Griffin is the only fight that I'd bet money on going to a decision, but Trigg-Kos could get there too (and God I love that fight). It's great that they've got 8 prelim fights going because otherwise, by showing a couple prelim fights for free, they might have ordinarily run out of fights to fill time with.

QUOTE (JPN366 @ Sep 19, 2009 -> 09:16 AM) Harsh assessment by someone who's never seen him play. He does have 40 plus homer potential, he just needs to let the ball get deeper into the strike zone, which is what kept him at 12. But boy, can he hit. He checked his swing one time and hit the ball hard into the right field corner. All the writer basically said is that Viciedo didn't hit for a ton of power numbers-wise and that he's only 20. Personally I don't get the purpose of writing about a prospect if you don't have any information to share. I wouldn't say the assessment is harsh because the writer didn't really make one, but I would say the piece was pointless and also contradictory. How can you put Viciedo in the "dud" column when you admit you don't know s*** about him and then you go on to say the sky is the limit for him? That doesn't make any sense. The minors are about development first with production being secondary and you don't need to put up big numbers to advance levels. I don't know where it was, but I remember reading something (possibly here?) that said something to the effect of, "beware of prospects who are all scouting reports with little production." And when I read that I had to laugh, because shouldn't people be far more concerned with minor league players who are very productive but yet scouts are constantly down on them?

Billy Wagner, Mike Gonzalez, Rafael Soriano, and Jose Valverde are among closers hitting FA. Heath Bell, Kerry Wood, Matt Capps, and Chad Qualls will be among those others who are available. Bobby will have some competition if the Sox try to move him, so I wouldn't expect to get a whole lot back in return. I'd expect 2 good prospects who would at least be under consideration for our current top-10 and then another prospect who is a bit further away and ranks lower because of it. I'd basically expect something like 1 pitcher with a ceiling of a #2/#3 starter who is no more than 2 years away, a power arm reliever (ideally a lefty one) who is pretty close to being ready, and then a player who spent 2009 in low-A or rookie league but has talent. I highly doubt we'd get a player who would appear on any top-100 prospects list right now.

QUOTE (SoxFan562004 @ Sep 17, 2009 -> 10:36 AM) they are lower caliber fighters or younger up and coming prospects, they are not as skilled as the top fighters. I'm not sure how you can find something exciting and not care for it. Takayama/Frye is one of the most ridiculously sloppy fights in the history of MMA, but it's one of the most exciting fights ever. I just like to enjoy the fights and not over think them. Really on Takayama-Frye? I can't stand that fight, can't even watch it at all. I have no idea on the backstory for that one, but I grew up a pro-wrestling fan and the first time I saw that fight I immediately thought it was fixed because it looked exactly like pro-wrestling. And I still think that too. It reminds me a lot more of Shawn Michaels-Bret Hart from the Survivor Series where McMahon screwed Bret than it does any actual fight.

Strikeforce announced that Fedor-Rogers is going to be on CBS. I think everyone expected that anyway as they weren't going to pay Fedor an assload just to stick him on Showtime.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Sep 17, 2009 -> 01:50 PM) You are the only one who stalks all of the threads that don't agree with you, and repeats the same thing ad naseum. To be fair, I do that too. I did that in the Brandon Allen thread just recently and believe me, I'm watching, and the first time Allen goes on a roll I'm going to bump that thread and stir s*** up again.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Sep 17, 2009 -> 02:29 PM) If the 1b and 3b are charging hard because they're expecting the bunt, pull the bunt back and slap the ball past them. This is one of my favorite plays in baseball. I can't even recall the Sox doing this since Cliff Politte(?) did it in 2005.

QUOTE (elgonzo4sox @ Sep 17, 2009 -> 02:33 PM) I've got my Rally Rios. A great philosopher of the national pastime once said: It ain't over till it's over. We'll be six out after KC takes care of Detroit this afternoon. Then we need: -- the Twinkies to bring Detroit down further in the standings -- a great homestand, including 2 or 3 wins vs. the Twinkies -- 5 or 6 wins overall against Detroit -- no let-down in Cleveland -- Another Game 163 blackout victory! I don't know how we're going to do it, but we're going to do it. Rios can definitely feel free to contribute to the cause.

QUOTE (greg775 @ Sep 17, 2009 -> 01:11 PM) I'm not the only non believer, just the one who gets criticized. You get criticized because you're the only one here who has to walk into the pet store just to kick the puppies. I'm sure the Make-A-Wish Foundation would love to have you on the payroll. They need someone to strut around the hospital like a pompous asshole, going from room to room telling everybody that they're just going to die, and if they don't think so then welllllll, I've got $10G's in monopoly money that says you WILL!