Kenny Hates Prospects

QUOTE (beck72 @ Sep 26, 2009 -> 08:22 AM) *JJ Hardy [prob. for Bobby Jenks] and a bullpen arm/ SP from AAA, AA; with acquiring him to play SS, it would allow the sox to trade Alexei Ramirez for: *1] Josh Reddick from the Red Sox; he's another Georgia boy a few months younger than Gordon; Yet he's a LHB who hits w/ power, and is a great defender in the OF-could play all 3 spots, though projects best in RF; hit .277/.352/.520 in AA; didn't hit well in AAA, though; *and 2] a bullpen arm. Reddick's K rate this year went up a ton and over a full season at the same levels he'd have been on pace to K about 130 times or more, and that's just at AA and AAA. Against MLB pitching that would raise even further, so I don't think he's ready for 2010, and I don't see Kenny dealing a major piece for someone who will not play in 2010. And I'd never, ever deal a player like Alexei for a prospect like Reddick. Probably 70% of the time or more that would result in us losing a very productive player while gaining nothing. Hardy would be another bad choice. We'd again be giving up a productive Alexei for a guy who got demoted to AAA at the age of 26 for putting up an OPS of .657 while supposed to be a power hitter. Hardy makes $4.65M this year while Alexei makes $2.2M through 2011. If Hardy were to return to form in 2010 it is even conceivable that through arbitration Hardy will make more in 2010-11 than Alexei will make for us from 2010-2014. Because unlike Hardy who is only under team control through 2012, Alexei is under team control through 2014. And furthermore, if Alexei gets hurt for some reason his contract still wouldn't be an albatross. If Hardy got hurt, or if he just failed to have a rebound season in 2010, then his deal would be immovable as he'll get at least his same $4.65M in arb this year. If Kenny traded Alexei for either of these players he should be strung up. If we trade Alexei we need to get a superstar in return. But if we did trade Alexei for a superstar and SS opened up in the process, then I'd target a lot of players before I'd go after JJ Hardy. I'd look for a low-risk, low-cost defensive solution at SS and I'd probably go hard after Maicer Izturis or something.

QUOTE (Springfield SoxFan @ Sep 26, 2009 -> 12:44 PM) Good point, do we know who has to be protected this year? Whisler also was just outrighted to the minors as well. I think anyone who has had 4 full seasons in the minors. Santo Luis, Fernando Hernandez, Derek Rodriguez, guys like that all have to be protected. I don't know about the full list but usually that list is released prior to the Winter Meetings where the Rule-5 is held.

QUOTE (MHizzle85 @ Sep 26, 2009 -> 02:23 PM) How about we stop this Rashad & Rampage debate. We both are blinded by our fandom when we make points. But, I will say this...If Rashad was such a professional, why didn't he take the fight against Rampage back in March? Oh, he needed time to "rest." They're both professionals. Silva/Belfort is on for 108 it seems. UFC 108 is starting to look really fun. Rashad had just won the belt in December and the UFC asked him to fight in March. Three months before winning the belt he fought Chuck, and prior to the Chuck fight he had been dealing with injuries through an extended training camp. I don't know if you remember, but Shogun was supposed to fight Chuck early 2008 I believe. Then Shogun got hurt and Rashad, who had already been training for someone else, stepped in to fight Chuck. Then Chuck went down so Rashad switched his training camp for like the third time to train for someone else who filled in for Chuck, I think it might have been James Irvin or something. So Rashad started training for him, then he got hurt, took some time up to heal, and then as soon as he got healed up he took the fight with Chuck. So Rashad had been very busy the whole time, and now that he had the belt, he asked to take some time off to rest up a bit. BTW Rashad didn't duck Rampage or anything like that either. He requested some time and the UFC gave it to him. If they wanted the fight that bad they could have made Rashad defend his belt earlier. I disagree that I'm blinded by fandom. I like or at least don't mind about 97% of the fighters out there, Rashad included. The only guys off the top of my head that I really don't like are Rampage, Barnett, Mayhem Miller, Junie Browning, a couple other TUF losers, and some local scene morons and stuff. But pretty much everyone else that I know of in the sport I'm either a fan of or I don't care much about one way or another. I used to hate on Tito all the time and now I don't even mind him anymore. If Rampage had been fighting anyone else in the LHW division I'd say the same things. I just can't stand that guy. He's a tool who thinks he's better than he is and better than anyone else in his division. And whereas most fighters at the highest levels probably think they're the best too, they at least stick around and fight. Rampage retires and then 5 minutes later is already talking s*** about what he'd have done to Rashad if he hadn't backed out in the first place. Okay MHizzle, I'll agree to try to put an end to the Rampage-Rashad debate for now. But with TUF airing it'll be hard.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Sep 26, 2009 -> 05:23 AM) At what point do you stop looking at career numbers though? Octavio Dotel is going to be 36 next season. He is a hit or miss pitcher every time he comes into the game, and you can't count on a reliever to do that after the 7th inning. You have to either look at him as a setup man, or you have to say see ya. And yes, quite a few of the numbers add up and look similar. But when your WHIP is 1.44, you should be doing nothing but 6th-7th inning duties. Dotel was great in July, awful in August, and has been great in September. People tend to remember who blew what and who partook in it. Dotel took part in many of August's meltdown's, and that will contribute to how he will be remembered in Chicago. They won't remember the work he did during 2008, they won't remember that he was an overall good reliever. They will remember that, and it's honestly what I stick my head in too. Octavio Dotel, personally, seems a bit like Javy Vazquez...he can contribute when the game is literally not on the line, but come time for him to step up, he cowers and fails. Dotel has stepped up quite a bit during his tenure here, and his poor (by his standards) year in 2009 shouldn't in any way make it seem like he's another Javy at all. We had a lot more to play for last year than we did this year and overall he did very well. Relievers in general, especially non-closing ones, are just like that, they have big ups and downs all year. For example, during Sept/Oct '08 Dotel pitched 8.1IP and gave up 2 HR, but he only gave up 4 hits total during that span with the other two hits being singles, and he posted a .143BAA, .583OPSA with a K/9 of 11.9 and a WHIP of 0.84. So overall he was very effective down the stretch when we needed him to be, but most people will probably only remember those two home runs and as a result they'll think he sucked. Secondly, yes Dotel has struggled this year, and yes he is getting older, but he still has the stuff to get the job done in a big situation. He is our one mostly reliable RH strikeout guy and sometimes you end up in situations where you need a K a lot more than a flyout or a groundout, or you'd much rather have 2 K's and a walk than a couple of outs where decent contact is made. Without Dotel we really don't have that strikeout guy from the right side, and that will hurt because we need that from the right side since we can't always go to Thornton. We do have both Clevelan Santeliz and Nathan Jones in the minors as RH high-K guys, but Cleveland is faaaar more erratic than Dotel and Nathan is still in A ball (although I could see him heading straight to Birmingham to start 2010). Pena could be our K guy but he has a lot more trouble locating within the zone than Dotel does, and it seems like most of Pena's sliders end up hanging over the middle of the plate about waist high. Hudson does have the control, but despite his high K totals in the minors I don't really see him as a K guy in the Majors at all, more of a groundball/popout guy. IMO no one else we have aside from Santeliz and Jones could be reasonably expected to produce a K/9 of 9 or above in the Majors. QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Sep 26, 2009 -> 05:23 AM) Greg, the White Sox could acquire mid-1980s George Brett, and you'd be pissed every time he made an out. I am honestly surprised you haven't turned on DJ Carrasco yet. I say Nathan Jones is the sleeper. I don't see these guys, and merely go off of scouting reports, but I say he is a relief prospect to watch next year. I do think Nunez makes the team out of spring though. Agree with all this stuff. Greg is a troll who talks just as bad about highly-talented players who aren't performing as he does about no-talents who aren't performing. By his posts it is hard to come away feeling like he can differentiate between the two types of players, and therefore it is hard to believe he understands what he is watching. Also, if Jones is throwing good strikes in ST he is going to open a lot of eyes, and as we've seen over the years, when Kenny and Ozzie think a guy can help out the big league team they aren't afraid to call him up, no matter what level he is currently at or projected to start at. I also think Hudson makes the pen and becomes our setup man while Nunez is the immediate favorite for a 5th/6th inning role. This is assuming these guys all stay here and we don't bring in a veteran.

QUOTE (Ken Harrelson @ Sep 26, 2009 -> 01:17 PM) Jennifer Gold, John Smith, Alfred Haines and all the wonderful people down from Sunset, Georgia, our pick to click is Chris Getz. You at home pick yours. I love this guy! Keep up the good work. Hawk, my PTC is going to be Freddy Garcia. He's going to poach some Tigers tonight.

QUOTE (CaliSoxFanViaSWside @ Sep 26, 2009 -> 12:58 PM) Peavy 2010 # 1 starter, Beckham 2010 # 3 hitter ,Thornton 2010 closer. I think Thornton can get the job done too, but then we'd need to get two good lefties in here instead of one and just bringing in one is a tall order in itself. That said, the Sox looked awesome last night. That was one of the seemingly few occasions this year where they were getting shut down by a pitcher with good stuff and yet still came up with a clutch hit to win a close ballgame. That game last night reminded me of so many other games during that one season where we didn't suck.

QUOTE (Ken Harrelson @ Sep 26, 2009 -> 01:19 PM) I've talked to a few scouts about Jake Peavy, and the first thing all of them said about him was "This guy is a competitor." LOL

QUOTE (Tmar @ Sep 26, 2009 -> 12:54 PM) Okay...What about the trash talking and showing up opponents? Whoops, I forgot those can just be ignored because he isn't doing movies. Ben Gordon grabbed his balls too against the Celtics in the playoffs last year. Did you boo that also? Grabbing your balls =/= humping reporters, going nuts in traffic and running into people with your truck, agreeing to fights and then ditching them to go do movies, quitting the whole sport because your boss rips your decision to take a movie role, etc. Rashad is a professional. Rampage is not.

The interview was from here: http://sports.yahoo.com/mma/blog/cagewrite...?urn=mma,191972 Rashad's just a cool guy. Yeah he can talk some trash, but he's not crazy as hell, and he doesn't walk away from fights to do movies, and then complain about company management, and then call out the guy who he walked away from fighting after he had already committed to the fight. Rashad = awesome.

Aside from his obvious skills in the cage, this is why I like Rashad so much:

I'm so happy to read that about Santos Rodriguez. When we got him I could have sworn I read that he could touch 100, but then I saw someone else in another thread say he's only low-90's. Then I did another search and found nothing saying he threw above low-90's. I'm very glad BA has cleared this all up and I would have ranked him higher if I'd known for sure he had that kind of arm.

Probably because Kenny wanted space to add other prospects who they want to protect from the Rule-5.

Great news for Mr. Egbert. Hopefully he gets an opportunity with the Mets. I'm actually a little bit surprised Whisler didn't get claimed since he's a lefty and has some control. He'll probably be in another organization come ST also if he's a MiLB FA. DRod and Fernando Hernandez are probably the next to go and those guys should also find a team to compete for next spring.

QUOTE (Thunderbolt @ Sep 26, 2009 -> 11:51 AM) Add in a good backup plan with Mark Kotsay on the team. I'd be very surprised if the Sox add more than about $12M to our base payroll next year after what we gave to Rios and Peavy. We could easily be spending $7-8M of that on Johnson and Kotsay in that case, and that would be a huge risk to take. If Johnson went down then Kotsay's bat everyday at DH wouldn't cut it. If we're talking about adding that much salary for one player we should look at other options who offer less risk, like Bobby Abreu as a full-time DH.

QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Sep 25, 2009 -> 12:18 AM) First off, the farm system was much, much weaker when he was pursuing Cabrera. Second, KW gave up Rocky Biddle, Jeff Liefer and El Duque for Bartolo Colon. I would not call that a "boatload" of talent. Finally, who did he give up for Everett that was of so much value? KW has traded lots of s***ty minor leaguers in his time because that's all we had. Now, we finally have some nice prospects in our system. Trading the farm for one impact player would be completely irresponsible. I just can't comprehend giving up all the cost certainty that these young players offer. I love Adrian Gonzalez as much as the next guy, but he is not worth our top four prospects. Not when we are in the situation we are in. You're viewing all this in hindsight. In the Colon deal, Montreal was forced to trade Colon because of salary concerns, yet the Sox gave up enough to actually get cash back in the deal. The Everett deal sent away 3 good prospects at time, including Anthony Webster who had star potential and Frank Francisco who has been a very good reliever in Texas. Saying the Sox didn't give up anything but "s***ty minor leaguers" because the players didn't turn out is nothing but stupidity. Kenny routinely gets criticized for giving up too much in his deals and they only look like steals later because the odds of most prospects in general turning out to be above-average players or better are very low. And LOL at you for saying how just NOW we have nice prospects in our system but haven't before. That's nothing but ignorance with regards to previous prospects we've had in our system and blind faith in our current group. People thought Jeremy Reed COULDN'T fail and he was ranked as a top-10 prospect in the game at one point. Borchard could have been a megastar. Corwin Malone, Kris Honel, etc. etc. were very big prospects. Jon Rauch and Danny Wright ranked among the best pitching prospects in the game, FAAAAAR higher than you'll ever see Hudson ranked. Flowers is a great prospect, but we also had Mark Johnson and Miguel Olivo who were great catching prospects too, and in the Garcia deal we got back Ben Davis as a reclamation project whose status as one point would have been worth 3 Tyler Flowers. And Jordan Danks is a good prospect too, but even Brian Anderson was a better prospect, so was Chris Young, so was Aaron Rowand, etc. If Kenny cleaned out our farm system right now and got an elite bat to stick in the middle of the lineup, the chances are we'd miss no more than one player sent out. I love the job the Sox have done with their farm the last couple of years but my god, very few of these guys are going to turn out no matter how great they look now, because hitting MLB pitching is a very, very, very hard thing to do, and if you don't hit for a couple months when you get the chance, and if you happen to play for a contending team while struggling, then you may never get another extended opportunity to play in the majors until you've already been passed up by some other prospect. Winning teams are not supposed to pass up opportunities for bats like Adrian Gonzalez because of a few Hudson, Danks, and Flowers-type players. Viciedo is the only guy on the farm I'd hate to part with in such a scenario, but for a bat like that you'd just have to. Gonzalez will make about $10M combined over the next two years and deliver production that over the same span would be worth at least $40M on the open market. What we would be giving up is ***not anywhere near*** $30M dollars worth of prospects, yet that is the type of improvement we'd be making to our MLB team. A guy like that would allow for other additions to be made around him because he's so cheap, and as a result, we could add probably 10+ wins onto whatever we'll have next season without him. Anyone who says that Adrian Gonzalez, on talent and salary alone for the next two years, and with Type A status also a near certainty, is not worth our farm is f***ing idiotic. Adrian would be a pipe dream for me because I don't think we'll be able to offer what the Red Sox and Yankees are going to offer. But if for some reason we have enough to entice San Diego, who will shop him over the offseason just as heavily as they did Peavy, then by all means I would be in favor of that deal. We have an awesome foundation for an awesome club in 2010 and beyond and there's no way in hell I'd pass up a bat like that because I was worried about how good the 2012 team would be.

QUOTE (VAfan @ Sep 25, 2009 -> 11:46 AM) What about Nick Johnson? I believe he's a free agent. He hasn't had an OBP below .400 in forever. His career OBP is .401. He doesn't have a lot of power any longer, however, and apparently not as much range at 1B, and he's had injury issues. But he could be a cheap option as a lefty DH. His RC/27 rate is 6.42 runs, which is better than Konerko or anyone else on our club, including Jim Thome. He's probably going to get a good chunk of money if for no other reason than his age, but probably on a one-year deal. If Nick Johnson is going to get $5-6M for one year and Bobby Abreu is going to get $8-9 then that's a real easy decision to make IMO, although the years in the deal would be a factor. I think Johnson should be pretty far down our list even though he'd be a great addition to the lineup as a DH if healthy.

QUOTE (VAfan @ Sep 25, 2009 -> 12:04 PM) If we want to trade for someone, why not Prince Fielder? The guy would give us that monstrous LH bat in the middle of the lineup. He's only 25. You could build a much better offensive team around him. Fielder = Borass client shooting for an unreal payday at the conclusion of his contract. That'll never happen.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Sep 25, 2009 -> 07:20 AM) Maybe Flowers, and you will see Nunez and Hudson, but the other guys? The Sox still have 6 very meaningful games, not for themselves, but they could determine the division champ. and no player is going to make or at least should make a lasting impression over that time. I think the Sox owe it to Minn, Det, and MLB to try to win the games against Det with their best line-ups. The games in Cleveland, let them clear out the bench. Just think how pissed you would be if it were the Sox chasing Minn at the end of the year, and Detroit had 6 games against them and Leyland played all Sept. call-ups. Agree on Lillibridge and Fields. Fields could be showcased, but since we're not going to get much for him anyway I'd rather showcase Paulie. I still like Lillibridge as a backup 2B/SS/CF and pinch runner off the bench, but that's all we should expect out of him. Playing him doesn't really help us because ideally Lillibridge would just be a worst case scenario player where you run him out for defensive purposes if someone else gets hurt. He shouldn't be taking AB away from anyone. Nix OTOH should get LOTS of playing time. In fact, I'd even consider putting CQ at DH for the rest of the season and playing Nix in LF just so he can get everyday AB's for the rest of the year. Rios can then play everyday between CF and RF with Pods, Dye, and Kotsay splitting the other AB's as they are all free agents after the year and whatever decisions we'd have to make about any of them have likely already been made.

The Tigers guys will fade. I wanted Jackson a lot over the offseason and I'm pissed the Tigers got him for so little, but he's still a 5-6 inning pitcher. Porcello isn't going to be reliable. Verlander is a horse, but Washburn has struggled with the Tigers and Galarraga has been terrible this year. The Tigers IMO only have a chance when they send Verlander out, but that'll probably be in Game 1 and he'll have to face CC. The Yankees are going to steamroll whoever it is that "wins" this pathetic AL Central division. And good for them too. I'm no Yankee hater, only a Red Sox hater.

Tigers. f*** the Twins. I want that ugly Dome to flood with tears as it crumbles.

If they could bring Dotel back for about half of what he's making now I'd be for it. $2M-$3M on a one year deal with a mutual option containing a small buyout for 2011 would work for me. The Sox should be expected to miss Dotel when they have to go to Linebrink or Pena on every occasion they went to Dotel this year. Dotel has been our K guy and he's the one righty we have that we could bring in with RISP and less than 2 outs and still hope to get out of it without giving up a run. Linebrink and Pena can both get K's too but more than likely there will be an XBH in there between those K's. As far as the FA market goes, aside from closers who we wouldn't be able to afford, there's not a lot out there and maybe nobody better than Dotel. Carrasco isn't really suited for a setup role IMO. Linebrink blows in the second half, but if he keep doing what he has done over the last few years, he should be good in the first half. I believe Hudson is going to thrive in a setup role sooner rather than later assuming we have no major injuries to our starting five, so without Dotel back, ideally Linebrink would do well for the first couple of months as the setup man while Hudson makes the adjustment to the pen. Then Hudson can take over the righty setup role when Linebrink starts to get lit up again and we can then send Liney to Charlotte. Watch out for our young relievers this year too. We've got a lot of decent or better options who are very close and could debut in 2010. A couple of those guys could end up as big assets for us. And maybe that is part of the reason Kenny isn't planning on bringing Dotel back. In my perfect world, our primary righties in the pen come midseason 2010 are Danny Hudson and Nathan Jones, with Pena as the third option, Carrasco as the LR, and Linebrink having been traded to a desperate team enamored with his usual first half success.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Sep 24, 2009 -> 07:41 PM) Mitchell can't be traded until the 2010 draft. I think he can go as a PTBNL as soon as possibly February, but I'm not sure about that. No trade can be completed until a player has been in the organization for one year, which means from the signing date, not the draft date. But it doesn't matter anyway because you almost never see those kinds of deals, at least for big names with large amounts of time between the trade agreement and the finalization of the deal. What if we traded a prospect as a PTBNL and received an MLB player in return, but then a week before the trade could be completed the PTBNL broke a leg and ended a career? That would be a pretty big risk for a team to take and I don't know what types of protective measures would have to be involved, but nevertheless it would be extremely unlikely for us to trade Mitchell before the 2010-11 offseason.

We would probably have a better shot at Hanley than Jose Reyes. The Mets shouldn't be trading any pieces of their core. They suck this year because they've been flattened by injuries, but get those guys healthy again and they're right back in the mix. But of course the Phils are dangerous and that Braves 2010 staff should be sick. A healthy Hudson fronting the rotation alongside Jurrjens and a more experienced Hanson, plus Lowe and Javy essentially only having to be 4th and 5th starters? That's nasty. The Marlins should just quit now and hold another firesale. The Nats should be in line for yet another #1 pick overall.

QUOTE (knightni @ Sep 24, 2009 -> 06:45 PM) Imagine them going on a 9 game win streak and losing by one game. :/ Imagine the Tigers going on a 9 game losing streak and the Sox losing by 8. I'm not going to root against our Sox but I'd rather have the Tiggers take this thing than those stupid Twins again.

White Sox! White Sox! Sleep, sleep White Sox! Let's go, sleepy sleepy White Sox You've been sleeping all the way! You're always in there sleeping, And you do your best. To make sure you always get enough rest. We're gonna yawn-yawn-yawn-yawn White Sox. In case you're still not tired enough yet. When we're in the stands, We'll have our pajamas on; All through September, Just like the rest of you.