Kenny Hates Prospects

I thought McSweeny won from landing all those leg kicks. Shivers bending over and sucking win didn't help his cause. But I could see at the very least scoring the first round for Shivers based on a takedown and landing the best strikes. It'll be interesting to see what a guy that big and athletic can do in MMA with some better cardio. I doubt he'll ever become all that good because he lacks a wrestling base and by the looks of things the wrestlers are going to rule the HW division for a while to come, but the guy could roll off some pretty sick KOs if he bumps up his conditioning. IIRC he threw a pretty sharp body kick in there too.

I know you want to see him go to the pen JPN, but I'm not sure that would work with Lucas. He seems to me like the type of guy that, if he's going to make it, he'll be the type that will struggle a bit with command the first couple innings and raise his pitch count before settling in later on. But I do hope that if the organization doesn't have plans for him as a starter they will at least try him in a bullpen role before sending him out. They must like the guy because he's been on the 40-man roster for the last two years.

QUOTE (klaus kinski @ Sep 24, 2009 -> 01:41 PM) I like KW but the players he got included Colon Wise Betemit Lillibridge Pena Miller and Castro Wise was an admitted f*** up. There was no excuse for having him as the Opening Day starter in CF. Colon was a reclamation project 5th starter that didn't work out. But it was better to do that than bring in a guy on a high one year deal or on a multiyear deal. Betemit was a top-shelf pinch hitter who completely fell off. That wasn't a bad move at all IMO, it just turned out bad. Lillibridge is a very nice option as a bench player. Anyone who can cover SS, 2B, and CF well defensively plus pinch run and only makes the minimum has value. The problem was that Ozzie had to play him regulary due to injuries. Lilli shouldn't have been out there more than once a week. It's not his fault or Ozzie's fault. I hate the Pena trade, but the guy does have talent. I think we gave up too much, but Pena does have a very live fastball that would bring him lots of success if he relied on it more instead of hanging his slider to everyone. There's still hope for Pena. Miller = league minimum backup. Who cares about offense from a backup catcher? I'd rather take the s***ty offense at the minimum and put the extra money saved into other areas of the MLB team or in the farm system. I've got no problems with Corky. Castro = same thing. The pitchers like him and he has some pop from the right side. He's done nothing to really win or lose this division for us. Jermaine Dye's second half alone hurts us more than any of the players on this list. In fact if you take out Colon, Dye's garbage second half hurts us more than all the other players' poor performances combined. And that's just Dye, and the blame doesn't end there.

QUOTE (kitekrazy @ Sep 24, 2009 -> 01:40 PM) I wouldn't be content with that. If they made it to the post season, it would be a joke. I doubt they would win one post season game. You can't count out a team that would start Peavy, Danks, Freddy, and either Buehrle or Floyd. s***, Dewayne Wise hit a big 3-run homer against the Rays last year and Geoff Blum put us ahead with a bomb in the WS. Anything can happen in the postseason if you have the starting pitching.

Oooh, JPN how is he looking? I'm still a fan of his.

There is some HW talent out there but not a ton of it, guys like Dave Herman for example. The UFC has brought in some ex-football players and it only makes sense that those guys will gas so early on. Football players train for explosiveness in short bursts, Sokoudjou style, so it is going to take these guys some time to acclimate their bodies to the rigors of a 15 minute total cardio f*** that is MMA. I liked what I saw out of both of those fighters last night. The McSweeney guy looks like a pretty good striker who will cut to 205 after the show. He gassed pretty early on but the guy he was fighting was f***ing huge and was laying on top of him putting his weight on the McSweeney. Cutting to LHW should force him to get into better shape and training at Jackson's is only going to help him. The Wes Shivers guy looked pretty tough for those first couple minutes but then totally gassed, which again is just what happens to guys who aren't used to training for MMA contests. But the guy is huge and was coming forward throwing straight punches and looking to finish early so you've got to love that. Let the guy have a few months to get himself into better physical shape and then judge his performance. Lots of guys on TUF really look like s***, and that's kind of the point. The UFC could have brought in some better veterans, and they did that with Nelson (who still has big holes in his standup game and with his wrestling), but that would kind of defeat the purpose. I don't think they want another Mac Danzig situation where they bring in a mediocre well-rounded guy who beats everyone and then goes on to be one of the weaker fighters on the show. Zuffa loves to develop their own talent, so when you watch TUF you just have to look for tools and natural ability and stuff and then realize that these guys are going to, for the most part, go back home and train harder than they've ever trained before with better gyms, coaches, and training partners than they've ever had before.

QUOTE (wallyburger @ Sep 24, 2009 -> 01:01 PM) Kenny labeled the team underachievers. He didn't say his expectations of the team he assembled were misguided and inflated. Blame the troops but not the brass. That is oh so typical of Kenny. Underachievers this year: Dye Rios Linebrink Dotel Jenks Pena Quentin Alexei in the first half I'd say better seasons out of those guys makes us just slightly better, wouldn't you? Besides, there have been several games this year where our pitching has been lights-out and our offense couldn't score off some nobody. Getting shut down by garbage like Adam Eaton is uncalled for. Maybe these things aren't reflected well in the overall numbers of guys like Paulie and AJ who have had good or great years, but when you go back and look at some of these scorecards there are guys who have had good years still not hitting when they needed to. Given how s***ty this division is I'd say Kenny is exactly right. We're underachievers this year. The Tigers will probably take the division with 85-87 wins while the Sox are 7 games below .500. We could have won this thing.

QUOTE (Thunderbolt @ Sep 24, 2009 -> 12:59 PM) KW seems to be stressing OPB and extra-base hits, while Ozzie continues to talk about going in a more small-ball oriented direction. They go hand-in-hand. They both want a balanced ballclub capable of scoring in as many ways as possible. You don't need to have a bunch of slow sluggers to get on base and drive in runs. Beckham and Abreu are types of players that make both of them happy.

QUOTE (SoxAce @ Sep 24, 2009 -> 12:53 PM) I think it might be Floyd (we have been known to deal a player who might have an injury we might see serious in the future) and I believe his hip injury is seriously being downplayed. Konerko I could see as well, but he wouldn't "shock" me. Hammerhead Johnson suggested Nick Johnson a few weeks ago at DH and I still LOVE the idea. Or an Adam Dunn. I'm betting KW will look to the trade market more this offseason than in FA in the past. What makes you think that? Floyd gives us production well beyond his current contract as well as cost certainty. Moving him only would make sense if we get another, better pitcher in the process who is also cheap and brings similar cost certainty.

QUOTE (BigSqwert @ Sep 24, 2009 -> 12:52 PM) What if Kenny traded him to St Louis? He'd probably waive the NTC. But do they even have something we need not named Pujols? They just have guys that they probably wouldn't trade anyway, like Wainwright for instance. Now that Kenny has assembled his third dominant rotation ('05 and '06 being the others) in his history as GM, I would expect him to try and win with it.

Buehrle has a NTC and his salary escalates if he is traded. He's also thrown two no-hitters including a perfect game in Chicago, started and saved a WS game, started the All-Star game for us, threw a CG in the ALCS, etc. The fans chanted his name and lashed out against the organization when Kenny tried to trade him. I'd expect Quentin to be traded before Buehrle, and CQ is going nowhere. If I had to pick one surprise player to go it would probably be Linebrink because I'd be shocked if someone took his contract. Anyone else traded probably won't be surprising. In fact, I can't even recall the last time we were shocked about a Sox player being traded because usually the writing is already on the wall for the guys Kenny ships out. Kenny only shocks us with his acquisitions. Edit: Actually, McCarthy was probably the last Sox player that Sox fans were surprised to see go.

QUOTE (CanOfCorn @ Sep 24, 2009 -> 11:29 AM) The steroid era is over...home runs aren't as important anymore. Pitching and defense isn't exciting, but it wins. I agree with the bolded parts but not the rest. Home runs as just as important as they always were. Yes, MLB is doing a much better job of getting the roids out but it's not like the new stadiums coming out are getting considerably larger and the mound height keeps getting raised. And it's not like players are getting weaker through better conditioning programs or that scouting reports on pitchers are becoming less reliable. Also, pitching and defense is VERY exciting. A slick defensive play is always more entertaining IMO than a home run, and a 1-0, 2-1, 3-2 type of ballgame always has you closer to the edge of your seat than some slugfest.

QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Sep 23, 2009 -> 08:47 PM) It's not about being a contending team. Teams like to gauge what kinda package they can get for players all the time. Doesn't mean they're even close to being ready to make a trade. And you're right. They are rebuilding. And how does a team like the Padres rebuild? By getting proven ML players and premium minor league talent for whatever legitimate players they have. And for a player the caliber of Gonzalez at his current cost there would be a monumental price to pay. And I'm pretty sure there's not a team out there that would give the Padres what they would require. I don't know if you understand how a rebuilding process works. The LAST thing teams are supposed to do is acquire MLB veterans that bump up the payroll. Full rebuilds are done though prospects and reclamation projects. The Padres are not going to spend a bunch of money on veterans, that doesn't make any sense. Their payroll should be around $50M or less for the next couple of years. Yes, the price for Adrian would be monumental which is exactly why they will trade him. The Padres are building for 2012 and Adrian is signed through 2011. It makes a lot more sense for them to deal Adrian over the offseason and bring in prospects who can join the team in 2010 and grow alongside the rest of their core towards playoff contention in 2012. QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Sep 23, 2009 -> 08:47 PM) not going to sit here, as you have, and try to predict what will come of prospects. What's the point? You can read Baseball America from sun up to sun down, look at stats, go through scouting reports until you pass out, ect. Nobody will know a thing until they get out there on the field and show us. Still, you don't gut your system to that extent for any one player not named Pujols, Lincecum, or maybe Felix Hernandez. First, there's a difference between the Sox gutting their system and a team like the Rays gutting their system. All systems are not equal. Our system has gotten a lot weaker over the past few months with Beckham, Getz, Richard, Allen, Poreda, and DCarter no longer in it. Secondly, Adrian Gonzalez is elite just like the other players you have mentioned. Pujols may be better, but there's no hitter in the game better than Pujols anyway. Gonzalez is one of the premier middle-of-the-order hitters in baseball, and he has just gotten better and better over the last few seasons. He should hit out 40 this year while playing half his games at PetCo, and meanwhile he has walked 107 times vs. only 102 K's. His BB rate keeps going up while his K rate keeps going down and he has massive power from the left side. Put that guy in our lineup between a healthy CQ and a Beckham who is gaining strength and you're talking about 90+ HR from the 3-4-5 hitters. QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Sep 23, 2009 -> 08:47 PM) I don't follow you here. Adding 40 HR and .400 OBP to our lineup for 2010-2011 is worth all that because we won't be able to afford this rotation forever? All 4 of our starters are either under contract or under control for the next 2-4 years. What does Gonzalez have to do with our pitching? And you contradict yourself because you say you'd have no problem giving up our #1 SP prospect. Which is not something you want to do if, as you say, we won't be able to afford this rotation forever. And yes, I have no problem trading minor league talent for proven ML talent. But like with anything in life, there's a line. There's no way even Kenny would give that much up for one guy. And it probably wouldn't be enough anyway. Let's use some logic here. Peavy's contract escalates. Buehrle makes $14M per. Floyd's deal goes up and Danks could get as much as $7-9M in his second year of arb. Just because these guys are under team control *does not* mean that the Sox will be able to afford them all while they are under team control. Therefore it makes sense to try to win now while they are here, and adding a bat like Gonzalez would help our chances immensely. And aside from that, winning now gives us the best chance of keeping our rotation together, because if we make a run in the playoffs for the next couple of years then the Sox will sell more season tickets which means a higher payroll. How did I contradict myself? Hudson may be our top SP prospect, but he is *not* a #1 SP prospect. There is a difference here. Hudson may be a very nice prospect but he's not Phil Hughes, and your #1 SP prospect does not have to have the ceiling of a #1 starter. He's a #3 starting prospect and we should have no problem dealing him for a proven player who is already better than anything Hudson will likely become. And what do you mean there is no way Kenny would give up that much for someone? Kenny offered the farm for Miguel Cabrera but the Marlins took Detroit's offer. Kenny offered a s***load for Freddy Garcia when Freddy was in Seattle. Kenny gave up a boatload for Bartolo Colon and Carl Everett. Kenny has given up a lot of talent for lesser players than Adrian Gonzalez and he went all out trying to get another elite guy in Cabrera. If there is one GM in the game who isn't afraid to sell the farm it is Kenny Williams. Notice my username.

QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Sep 23, 2009 -> 08:01 PM) Did they shop him? Don't know and don't care. The Cardinals could shop Pujols and it wouldn't mean anything. Yes, he is elite. And he's ridiculously cheap (which is why there's no reason in the world to trade him unless you're getting some beyond earth shattering in return). No, he's not worth Flowers, Viciedo, Danks, Hudson and more. That's a ridiculous comment. The Cardinals are a contending team so your comparison doesn't mean anything. The Padres have nothing to play for and are rebuilding, and they're not going to compete until Gonzalez is a free agent and they won't be able to afford him then. Therefore it makes total sense for them to trade him. What are the odds that Flowers or Viciedo ever become as good as Gonzalez is now? Neither of those guys are expected to be major contributors until at least 2011. Hudson is not an ace and is probably a 3/4 or a setup man. Danks is always going to have problems with strikeouts and his lack of power doesn't exactly help his cause. Danks is a very good prospect but he's not some elite CF prospect by any means. Adding 40HR and a .400 OBP to our lineup in 2010-2011 at least is worth all of that because we're not going to be able to afford this current rotation forever. 2010 is the opening of our window and MLB success always takes priority of what your prospects might become in 3-4 years, within reason of course. There should never be reservations about using minor league talent to acquire a player of AGonz's caliber. Whether or not Kenny has interest and would make a deal like that I don't know, but there will be Adrian Gonzalez rumors all offseason and this board will probably have a pretty long thread on the topic, so get used to it.

QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Sep 23, 2009 -> 07:51 PM) Umm, no. Great post. No what? No, the Padres never shopped him? Yes they did. No he's not elite? Yes he is. No he's not worth that much talent? Yes, he is. No, we don't have enough to get him? Maybe not.

QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Sep 23, 2009 -> 07:43 PM) You need to forget about Adrian Gonzalez. He's under the Padres control through 2011 (5.5 million club option that will obviously be picked up). He's one of the better bargains in baseball. It would take a Bedard like package for the Padres to even consider trading him. The Padres were shopping him at the deadline and since they're the Padres it's a given he'll be available. It's going to take even more than a Bedard package to get him, but if we had a chance, I'd sell the farm for him. Flowers, Viciedo, Hudson, Danks, and then I'd give them more. Gonzalez is elite.

QUOTE (Soxbadger @ Sep 23, 2009 -> 07:21 PM) What reasons would I fire a hitting coach? Conflict with the manager. Hitting coach and manager do not have the same philosophy. Other than that I dont really think that a hitting coach is very important. I guess I feel like Ozzie likes him and more importantly the players like him. Im not sure that ive ever heard a bad word said about Walker. All players do is compliment him and say that he works as hard as anyone (or at least that is what I can recollect.) Its the players job to hit the ball, in my lifetime I cant name any hitting coaches that I think make a huge difference, and there really are only a handful of pitching coaches who you can say the same about. For the most part hitting and pitching coaches are whipping boys. Would you say Coop is just a whipping boy then? It's f***ed up how people can say Walker doesn't have much influence/control over the situation and then praise Coop. And also, if the players like Walker so much, and if the organization likes Walker so much, then maybe that is part of the reason they're all s***. Maybe these miserable f***s need a drill sergeant in there. Or maybe they just need a dunce corner and after every s***ty AB, that player will have to put on the dunce hat and sit there in silence at the end of the bench while the other players spit on him and throw garbage at him. And if by the fourth inning the entire lineup is sitting there on the end of the bench and there's no one left to put in, just call the game, forfeit, and save the arms on the pitching staff.

The only thing Dana and co. did wrong was neglect to put a clause in fighter contracts saying they need written permission from Zuffa to take any leave of absence whatsoever. It's f***ing lame that Frank Trigg had to pull out of TAGG/MMAJunkie radio to fight in the UFC but yet Rampage gets to go make a movie. Suck it the f*** up Rampage, you're a millionaire and you've been blessed by second chances that other fighters would have never gotten. You're supposed to be a fighter, meaning you should fight whoever they put in front of you - and it's not even like the UFC made him fight training partners or anything like that. And LMAO at Rampage saying he was in any way hesitant to take a rematch with Wandy or fight Rashad. Rampage wanted to kill both Wandy and Rashad. It'll be in Rampage's best interest to retire though because I doubt he can take the added brain damage he'll receive at the hands of Sugar Rashad. Wandy alone already did enough to Rampage to kill three men, so Rampage should be thrilled he made it through that and call it a day. And I know you like Rampage MHizzle, but sorry, I just can't stand that guy. I read where he called Forrest Griffin a loser or something after Anderson destroyed him and then Rampage said he no longer wanted the rematch with Forrest which he had spent the last year or so campaigning for. Like Rampage is anywhere near Anderson's league... Rampage is a great fighter and I'm not going to say he isn't, but he's f***ing nuts and he talks waaaay too much s*** for a guy who lost a decision to Forrest and barely got by Keith Jardine.

QUOTE (fathom @ Sep 23, 2009 -> 06:53 PM) Scott Merkin's twitter says : http://twitter.com/scottmerkin/status/4327849217 Check your team's record, Kenny. They f***ing blow. You won't have to give up your first rounder, so get that excuse out of your vocabulary. You'll need a better one, like "Hmm, I don't know why the fans haven't been showing up? Could it be the economy? Could it be that the team I build sucks big hairy dog dick?" Use that one again, Kenny. That'll work.

QUOTE (Tony82087 @ Sep 23, 2009 -> 06:47 PM) Looks likw my memory wasn't that far off. Anyone got a link to the old story? I would go digging, but I'm on my blackberry right now.. IIRC there was something about Delgado refusing to stand for the National Anthem in protest of the Iraq War that got Delgado in hot water, and maybe that has something to do with the situation. Maybe it happened in the Cell and pissed off the Sox or whatever. Ozzie would be at irate if one of his own players did that, so maybe that's the connection.

QUOTE (fathom @ Sep 23, 2009 -> 06:44 PM) Walker could be the greatest hitting coach ever, but if he's not getting through to the hitters, then he needs to go. Rios should be the litmus test. If Rios is hitting in May 2010 then Walker can stay. If he's not then ship Walker out of here. Rios is Walker's first big project, and we need the guy to hit because he's a part of our future and we're paying him a lot of money.

QUOTE (Princess Dye @ Sep 23, 2009 -> 06:33 PM) The reason for Jermaine Dye's second half collapse is Greg Walker. He started taking his advice at the All-Star break, despite his MVP like numbers, and when straight downhill. The reason for Carlos Quentin's low numbers in 09 is all because of Greg Walker. CQ's great numbers in 08 had nothing to do with Greg Walker. This year, Alexei Ramirez started taking walks and raising OBP. This, however, was not the doing of Greg Walker. Kotsay revitalized his career here, Konerko had a bounce back year, AJP had a career year, Beckham adjusted well to major league pitching. Point being there are sooo many loose ends out there to evaluate, you cant be vitriolic towards Walker. If you feel like it's time for a change of pace, hold that opinion. But you cant really say you KNOW walker is the reason for certain failures. We're not with the team daily. It's not one of the things we can really know. As much as we wish it was. Uh, no. Kotsay had a great season last year and was hurt when he was with Boston. Theo sent him out because he gets trigger-happy and makes deals just to make deals (see the Kotchman and LaRoche moves for another example). When Kotsay got healthy and picked up some playing time he produced like he always has when healthy.

QUOTE (GreatScott82 @ Sep 23, 2009 -> 05:50 PM) My perfect 2010 lineup: Crawford LF Abreu DH We're not going to have the money to bring in both of those guys. Maybe if we traded Paulie we could.

My perfect 2010 lineup: Sign Abreu or Damon, trade for Cody Ross, send Paulie out, sell the farm for Adrian Gonzalez L Getz 2B R Beckham 3B L Adrian Gonzalez 1B R Quentin LF L Bobby Abreu or Johnny Damon DH R Ramirez SS L Pierzynski C R Rios CF R Cody Ross RF Nix UT Kotsay 1B/OF Backup C for minimum Backup SS/CF for minimum (bring in some guys to compete with Lillibridge) A nice L/R mix of speed, power, OBP, contact, and bat-handling skills, plus a much better defense 2009

QUOTE (WCSox @ Sep 23, 2009 -> 06:02 PM) I've read that his account was suspended. What did he say? Nothing important. The Sox suck, blah blah blah, Bobby is gone, etc. Same s*** everyone here is saying. Ozzie's little clubhouse runts don't exactly have Kenny's ear. Kenny is a big boy and he makes his own decisions, and I'd be surprised if he even consults Ozzie beforehand on most of them. And if Bobby goes it'll be because Kenny can get something for him and has a plan for a closer, otherwise Bobby will be here because it doesn't make sense to give up a pick and spend more money on a FA closer or trade top minor league talent for somebody else's closer when all we have to do is offer arb.