chw42

QUOTE (greg775 @ Sep 6, 2011 -> 01:01 AM) I still challenge anybody on this board to name a CURRENT manager who you think is good. I hear a lot of names for the job. Who currently managing a team could pass your test as actually being "good" to "great." Who is a "good" manager. My guess is you name a guy and you'll get fried on here by anybody who looks into the games as closely as fathom studied the 10 games Ozzie lost us single handedly. I guess the managers of the Bosox and Yankees? They don't count considering they actually have owners with deep pockets and GMs who stockpile rich talent from other teams. Look, there are no good managers in baseball if they are subject to the scrutiny of people on this board. Joe Maddon. Look at the lineup he throws out there everyday. The Rays would be in the playoff race if they weren't in the AL East. That Rays team started off worse than the Sox and are 7 games better with a quarter of the salary. They're a superior organization in almost every way - including the GM, the manager, and the coaching staff. There's a reason why a lot of people are clamoring for Dave Martinez. He's in one of the most well-runned organizations in baseball and he's been under a manager in Maddon that applies statistics to his strategy and runs a good clubhouse.

QUOTE (greg775 @ Sep 6, 2011 -> 01:42 AM) Great post. The Sox record is miraculously good considering he has Dunn n Rios. But many on here amazingly blame him for Dunn n Rios. Sad. Here's the thing...he didn't have to play Rios or Dunn the way he did. If you think KW forced Ozzie to play them...then how do you explain the White Sox not getting rid of Juan Pierre when Kenny clearly wanted him off the roster?

QUOTE (greg775 @ Sep 5, 2011 -> 10:04 PM) That's what I mean. Our uber sensitive soxtalk fans will love the fact our new manager is dull. They are sick of ozzie's quotes which I find so funny and most on here hate. Most of the posters here don't care if the manager is dull or controversial, we care if he's good at managing the game.

QUOTE (sin city sox fan @ Sep 5, 2011 -> 09:28 PM) If we can go 20-3 in the remaining games, all we need Detroit to do is go worse than 11-10 for us to take the division. Not with this roster.

QUOTE (sin city sox fan @ Sep 5, 2011 -> 09:22 PM) I know its a big hole....but maybe the momentum from today can help us get back in the race. Maybe if they didn't blow game 2. But I doubt it.

QUOTE (The Ginger Kid @ Sep 5, 2011 -> 09:20 PM) think we try to re-sign Humber? Humber isn't even arb-elligible yet. He only has 1 year of ML service. The Sox should be able to retain him for next to nothing.

QUOTE (Quinarvy @ Sep 5, 2011 -> 09:14 PM) Seriously though, I want Sale & Stewart both in the rotation next year. I definitely want Sale in the rotation.

Hell of a game by Stewart.

I hate WCIU. I actually want to watch this game unfold and I can't...

QUOTE (greg775 @ Sep 4, 2011 -> 06:40 PM) Wasn't Trey Hillman a hot, can't miss prospect before KC hired him? Not trying to flame, but even if KC hadn't hired him, wasn't he the next great thing? Those 4 names of guys I've never heard of are dangerous like Trey-dangerous.. When Oz is shown the door ... I want either an old, "name" manager or I want Sandberg. Why hire some unknown for a high (or at least competitive) payroll organization like the White Sox?? Trey Hillman managed in Japan before he came back to the States. That's completely different.

Jerry just needs to let this Jerry Springer fest unfold. It'd be what's best for the team's future.

QUOTE (Marty34 @ Sep 3, 2011 -> 12:16 PM) This team is not underachieving, PECOTA projected them to be .500. They were never good enough to win the division. PECOTA's been absolutely useless for the past few years. That system's broken. In terms of projections, the White Sox were projected to be about a 40 WAR team (by some of the better projection systems around such as ZiPS and Marcel), that equates to about 88 wins, depending on the replacement level win threshold.

QUOTE (Marty34 @ Sep 3, 2011 -> 01:09 PM) 1.) The Manuel teams were largely Schueler creations. 2.) Add Todd Ritchie, Billy Koch, David Wells, Roberto Alomar, Ken Griffey, JR. to Peavy, Dunn, Rios, and Swisher. Only Wells and Swisher did anything after leaving the Sox. Seems like Williams has a knack MLB veterans who are past their useful life. Outside of Ritchie, which one of those players had a bad history before coming to the White Sox? The Alomar and Griffey acquisitions were useless, but it's not like they gave up anything useful. Plus, it's extremely hard to think a veteran is past his useful life when they're still in their prime (Rios, Swisher, Koch). It's an unpredictable game. I don't think you can even blame Dunn on KW, because only a few people thought Dunn was going to be a waste of money and even then, they didn't think he'd be this bad. So that signing is completely hindsight. Plus, for every one of those stupid moves he made, you have Matt Thornton, John Danks, Carlos Quentin, Gavin Floyd, Sergio Santos, etc. I personally don't think KW is a good GM, but he's a serviceable one. I'd love for somebody better to take over, but pinning the past few seasons all on Kenny when he was partially blocked by his manager in acquiring or getting rid of players is unfair.

Damn it...now I can't get out of my T-Mobile contract so easily...

QUOTE (greg775 @ Sep 2, 2011 -> 04:39 PM) Great post. The bottom line is some people can't handle people who don't agree with them. That's fine with me. Ptatc had a good take on Oz IMO. Yes Ozzie is going to win big the rest of his career. Unfortunately it appears it won't be with the Sox. Dave Martinez lovers will find plenty to criticize once we are 30 or so games into the season. LaRussa ... we all know there will be plenty to criticize there. My guess is when you match up Ozzie with whomever replaces him ... Ozzie will have the better resume and the better future. Okay, let's take a look at that resume. Managerial career winning percentage: .526 Managerial career winning percentage without 2005: .514 Average team salary during tenure: $100 million Winning percentage with $100+ million payrolls: .519 If you take out 2005, Ozzie's is leading teams to an 83 win season. Jerry Manuel did that with a $50 million payroll (regardless of the time frame in which he managed, that is still a huge difference). But even if we include 2005, 85 wins a season given the fact that he's been given fairly talented rosters ($100 million should get you nearly a 90 win team, not an 85 win team), he's still underachieving. So what if you say that it's Kenny's fault for not allocating the funds correctly? Well, Kenny sure did a hell of a job when Manuel was the manager, those teams averaged 86 wins with a $50 million payroll. I'd say that's definitely worth some praise, even more so if you think Jerry Manuel was a horrible manager. Plus, how do we explain players under-performing? What is about this team that makes hitters who were consistent hitting machines (Dunn) before their arrival to the city turn into Drew Butera? Is it Ozzie? Is it Greg Walker? Is it the fans? I'm not certain, but this team has given Swisher, Rios, and Dunn the worst season of their careers by far. Thus, it is actually hard to blame Kenny for acquiring some of these guys (especially Dunn) considering their previous history. Rios and Swisher definitely deserve some criticism since they were very risky, but Rios looked like a great pickup last season and Swisher...well...he and Ozzie sure as hell didn't get along. Which brings me to my next point... Is Ozzie really a good player's manager? People usually mention this as Ozzie's greatest strength, but let's revisit some past history. Remember when Ozzie showed up Sean Tracey for not hitting a batter? First of all, when other players see that, they are less interested in coming to the White Sox. Some players do not like Ozzie Guillen and they will not play for him. It's different for everyone, but if you're supposed to be a good player's manager, you should be welcomed by everyone. An SI poll back in 06 showed that Ozzie was voted 8th best manager and 7th worst manager by the players. So literally, it's a love or hate thing, but once again, if you're a good player's manager, almost everyone should like you, not a 50/50 split. So really, Ozzie's not a great player's manager, he's underachieved more so than Jerry freaking Manuel if you view his time with the Sox in a wider context than 2005, and I won't even go on to explain how bad he is at managing the actual games (which is what most of his duties as a manager consist of). He hasn't won big with a team that has given a talented $100 million roster almost every single year, what makes you think he will win big with a $40 million roster down in Florida? So there you have it, a thought-out argument for why Ozzie can't really win big in Florida given his resume. Now if you want to post a thought-out rebuttal with facts to back up your opinions, that is fine. But until you do, I, along with a lot of other users on this board, won't take your opinion seriously on this matter.

QUOTE (kitekrazy @ Sep 2, 2011 -> 11:33 PM) Minus the 2 powerhouses (Detoit and Cleveland seem to have better futures), sounds like a lateral move but there's still a better upside than here because expectations would be lower. Are you being serious? Have you seen the pitchers the Braves have on their team right now along with what they have coming up in their system? Cleveland just dealt away half their farm for Ubaldo, who for all intents and purposes, is incredibly inconsistent and losing velocity on the fastball. Detroit doesn't have much of a farm system and I doubt they'll be able to to sustain success for a very long time without spending big bucks on free agents. Plus, the Nationals are definitely an up and coming team with the potential to field a great pitching staff led by Zimmermann and Strasburg. The Phillies also aren't declining. Lee and Halladay still have at least a few good years left in them and as long as they perform, that team will be very good. The Marlins have some nice young players, but moving from the AL Central to the NL East is definitely not a lateral move. Ozzie hasn't "won big" in one of the worst divisions in baseball. What makes you think the Marlins have a chance to win big in the best division in the National League when they haven't come close to relevance for the past 7 years?

You guys should try some of the sliders they have on Operation Sports. They make the outcomes so much more realistic.

Cowley thinks KW didn't have the balls to get rid of Pierre? WTF?

Don't you hate it when NFL players ask for trades when they have 3 years left on their contract? Thank god this s*** doesn't happen in baseball.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Sep 2, 2011 -> 11:51 AM) Let me put it this way, he has slid into Mariottis old role. Pretty much, except he's slightly more confrontational.

Cowley is an embarrassment to the journalism profession.

QUOTE (greg775 @ Sep 1, 2011 -> 11:01 PM) Hopefully 20 more years. The guy speaks the truth and people blast him. Some of you won't be happy until we get a grumpy ol manager like Ned Yost who won't say anything except "we take them one game at a time." Then you'll all be happy I guess. I applaud anything negative Ozzie has to say about these losers. You think talk means anything to these millionaires? They just go out and play every day. This Sox team doesn't deserve any long Ozzie speech about how we are still in the race, we can beat Detroit, blah blah. I love his colorful comments. They are way better than the cliches the rest of the managers spout daily. Detroit is not going to be any more fired up against us because of anything the Sox say. If the Sox hit home runs and pitch well they will win. If they do not hit home runs they will lose. And some of you really are gonna be mad cause look for Flowers to sit soon and look for DeAza to be sitting as well. I thought Ozzie was supposed to be a good clubhouse manager. Good clubhouse managers don't say things like "oh I hope we don't get swept". No s***, you don't want to get swept. That's such a defeatist attitude.

QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ Sep 1, 2011 -> 09:01 PM) With the way things are going now, you don't think a few people would? I guarantee it. Lucas Harrell was never going to be good. I don't think anybody with an idea would ever complain.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Sep 1, 2011 -> 08:54 PM) Was that really below market at the time? I'm not sure what dollar values one WAR translated to back then, but I'm thinking Freddy was worth about $12 million in 05. So it is under market value, but not by much. Plus, he was probably worth less than what he was paid in 06.

QUOTE (Marty34 @ Sep 1, 2011 -> 08:53 PM) You're not thinking things through. Garcia doesn't agree to a below-market extention the trade never happens. That doesn't mean the Sox don't win the World Series in 05 though. $10 million gets you a pretty good pitcher in 2005.