jenksycat

QUOTE (Username @ Jan 26, 2018 -> 01:42 PM) Not sure I agree with the negativity on Cain. Fringe-CF guys with good arms often end up being spectacular RFs (see Eaton, Cutch to an extent) which can actually pump their value up a ton. Cain’s skill set is actually very similar to Eaton, with a bit more pop and slightly higher offensive upside. So then they're trading Braun? Still need a center fielder and currently have 4 corner OF'ers

QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Jan 26, 2018 -> 01:11 PM) Am I mistaken or is the Cain signing a pretty fair deal for the Brewers? I presume there is risk on the back-side (given age, etc) but early on, given his recent production (when he's healthy) he's been a 5 WAR+ guy which at $16M per year feels reasonable. I just don't understand it when you have similar production in Santana for peanuts. Unless they have a deal locked up to trade Santana for pitching I don't really understand what they're doing.

QUOTE (GermanSock @ Jan 26, 2018 -> 08:10 AM) Except is isn't really both ways, yes a few players get massive guaranteed contracts but the compensation is that ALL players are very cheap during their first 6-7 years which is their prime years. Sure it sucks you have to pay 30m to washed up pujols but both ways would mean giving pujols at 35 30 millions and trout or Bryant at age 24 50 millions per year instead of 500k. The overpaying of (a few) veterans was the price owners paid for getting young talent to work for almost free. It worked excellent for the owners, sure there are the pujols deals but overall the players share of mlb revenue dropped a lot in the last 10 years (salaries went up but less so then mlb revenue). If the teams now stop giving big contracts without raising young players pay (or shortening team control) that is simply a big pay cut while mlb makes more revenue than ever. Sure owners need to make some profit and I think the tipping point isn't reached yet but if the players lose any more of the cake the union needs to do something. Really the union did a bad job here. They were always selling the young guys but they didn't realize that teams got extra greedy (I.e. more efficient- which they can't be faulted for of course) and leaned more on young and cheap players instead of fulfilling their part of the deal and overpay the veterans. Union missed that trend. I don't blame the GMs for finding a loophole and get more efficient but of course they can't continue to underpay young guys and get more efficient with veterans. Owners need to make a decision which of the two groups they want to pay. Union will never get pay for both groups but no group of course isn't acceptable either. It is both ways. You can't complain that 33 year olds aren't signing 150m deals anymore AND still have 100% guaranteed contracts. Way too much risk and it just took a good couple decades for teams to realize that. If you want to say its a trade off for younger guys playing for peanuts fine, but there's nothing preventing a younger guy like Bryant from signing a 50m deal at 22 vs. betting on himself getting a 300m deal at 28. There's risk on both sides of that.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jan 25, 2018 -> 07:30 PM) Wouldn't mind taking a chance on Thames if we're going to dump Avi, Abreu or both. 18:$5M, 19:$6M, 20:$7.5M club option ($1M buyout) We'd have him for 2018 and 2019. That said, it's highly unlikely because those at-bats will go to the likes of Davidson, Delmonico, etc. Thames would be 33 at the end of 2019, and he's already a pretty big dude. What pitcher/s would you be willing to trade for Domingo Santana? He can't play with Braun, Cain and Yelich, unless they dump Thames and make Braun the DH. They move to the AL too?

Can't have it both ways. Can't have massive guaranteed contracts...then b**** that teams aren't handing out potentially crippling 100m+ deals like candy anymore. Some teams are tanking/rebuilding yes, but lots of teams just aren't going to pay stupid amounts of money for aging players based on what they did in previous seasons. Houston & KC proved a rebuild & smart signings can work, you don't need a bunch of guys making 20m+ to win s***.

QUOTE (Username @ Jan 24, 2018 -> 09:20 AM) Exactly. We have virtually zero guaranteed money on the books, which is insane and rare even for rebuilding teams. I also think everyone is overlooking the fact that even though we lack those ~50 FV guys we have an insane amount of guys that likely at least have a ML floor (Burdi, Guerrero, Stephens, Polo, Adams, Zavala, Viera, Bummer, etc.). Unlike previous years we hopefully won’t have those “black hole” roster spots where we literally have nobody even replacement level at areas of need. And we still have the #4 pick in the draft next year. Remember guys, the cubs signed 2/3 of their WS OF, Zobrist and Lester. You don’t need to have a prime prospect at every spot. It helps to have multiple MVP/Cy Young candidates on the team already though, the Sox need a few of these guys to turn into superstars or its a failure.

QUOTE (fathom @ Jan 19, 2018 -> 02:52 PM) It was also considered a fleece because Giolito was a big name in the industry. Eaton was also criminally underrated in the media. Considered a fleece then AND a year+ later are 2 different things. I'd still consider it that as of right now.

Still a no thanks for me for what his price will be. Most people consider the Eaton trade a fleece'in of the Nats, I'd rather not be on that same page for a similar player. If his value has cratered and you can get him for guys outside our top 15-20 then cool, but I don't see them settling for that low of an offer.

QUOTE (cjgalloway @ Jan 17, 2018 -> 03:35 PM) The fact that scouts say he will stick in Center field is the only thing I care about.. That is HUGE if he can Not sure how they can say that this early. Avi Garcia was a "5-tool center fielder" at one point too.

Buehrle signs a 1 day contract, throws 1 inning then bullpen.

QUOTE (South Sider @ Jan 11, 2018 -> 11:13 PM) This thread did not need to be reopened because theres seriously been only a few interesting posts in the last couple of pages. Everyone else hijacked this thread with their spam. Message board etiquette 101: Don't spam threads. As I break the etiquette myself... This thread is Greg's masterpiece. His Mona Lisa

Are they planning to keep Fangio still?

I'm in a rare optimism mode. I don't think Melky & Frazier (Yolmer had a better year) were world beaters last year so the only major loss is Q (who was not his usual self with the 2017 Sox) & the bullpen (who can have a random guy catch fire) Gio and Lopez continue to improve Rodon exists still hopefully Optimistically believe Sheilds magically found a new arm slot and isn't a BP pitcher any more Yoan & Tim continue how they ended 2017 Abreu does Abreu Avi hopefully does new Avi Yolmer & Leury wild cards In June they're infused with Kopech and Eloy To me that doesn't seem like a worse team but who knows. 3/4 of the above will be the opposite

No thanks. Now is not the time to be paying kings ransom prices for anyone not named Mike Trout. Give these guys 2018 to develop and hopefully in 12/2018 we're in a spot to spend a bunch of money and pull off a trade or 2 that puts us in contention for 2019.

QUOTE (SonofaRoache @ Dec 15, 2017 -> 03:07 PM) It's absolutely no way to claim he wont re-sign either, but people are making that claim. The point is our odds go from almost nothing to solid. I know this because if it weren't the case, Hahn wouldn't try to trade for him now. So clearly Hahn doesn't think his chances are good if he waits til FA. Again, absolutely no way you can claim this.

QUOTE (SonofaRoache @ Dec 15, 2017 -> 02:14 PM) No one has said there wont be a battle. I'm not sure where you are getting that from. What we are saying is our odds go from probably 5 percent to 75 percent if he does like it here AND we pay him. If we wait for him to be a FA we have to hope he just really wants to be here for no apparent reason over other teams that are more attractive. Absolutely no way you can claim this

QUOTE (steveno89 @ Dec 15, 2017 -> 11:43 AM) I just think the money might get to staggering amounts that the Sox will not feel comfortable going to. Mlbtraderumors guessed during a weekly chat Machado's deal ends up being $350-400 million over 10+ years on the open market. Is that something we really want to risk? We could theoretically sign 2-3 still very high quality players for that same money. I think it all comes down to how the young guys play this year which is why I think it's stupid to give anything of value up for Machado right now. Moncada/Timmy/Gio/Lopez improve + Avi/Abreu repeat + Rodon exists + Kopech/Eloy look like stars? 300m easier to swallow. A couple of those groupings don't pan out, you may rethink things.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Dec 15, 2017 -> 11:31 AM) How do teams including the White Sox ever sign free agents if they need to play with them for a season to get the lay of the land? Won't these other teams you are worrying about have the same issue? It's the weirdest logic I've seen. Money & contract details is 99% of it. If the Sox aren't planning on making/matching the best offer they have no chance at him whether he plays half a season here or not.

QUOTE (whitesoxwinner @ Dec 14, 2017 -> 09:35 PM) Is everybody down on Blake Rutherford? I still think he can be a stud. He was a young kid who struggled after getting traded. I still see a ton of talent/potential once he grows into his body. I hope Eloy/Robert is > Rutherford.

Trading Kopech for anything less than Trout at this point is a fireable offense. Shall give them the benefit of the doubt they're not that stupid

QUOTE (flavum @ Dec 14, 2017 -> 09:41 AM) Like it. Astros had a few things go wrong over the last five years and they’re the champs now with a fun team. Not sure what you mean, I'd take Appel over Bryant every day.

QUOTE (SonofaRoache @ Dec 14, 2017 -> 01:38 AM) I'm making an argument for a great baseball player though moving to a big city. Shark sucked, played for the Cubs so the White Sox were probably meh to him in comparison, and re-signing him would have been a horrible mistake anyway because he sucks. You have this weird assumption that all it takes is 1 magical year on the Sox and Machado is going to fall in love. He's going to be playing in front of 10k people and lose 90+ games. Money. Money is all that matters. If we can't offer him the most money + opt outs + NTC he's never going to sign here, now or in 2018.

QUOTE (SonofaRoache @ Dec 14, 2017 -> 12:54 AM) Not true. If all the teams offer 10 years and 300 million we need something to be in our favor. He wouldn't pick us over the Yankees and others in that situation unless he were comfortable here already. He's going to get that deal from every interested team, and we wouldn't be talking trade if we didn't plan to make a top offer. I think we are holding on to these prospects a little too close. We'd lose one we'd miss, whom prior to his last few months of the season people were down on. I like Gio, and hope his name isn't included, but if you can get a top 10 player on your team you do it. Shark and Shields were bad trades because both of those guys sucked when we got them. They weren't top tier players like Machado is. A) "All teams" are not going to offer 10/300. He's going to have a handful of offers in that range and will likely sign with whichever has the most money + opt outs + NTC. All things that the Sox are not known for. B) There's a 0% chance he signs an extension and skips free agency C) In the entire history of the Sox, they're never the 'desired' location and never will be. The only way we get guys is to overpay, which again, they don't do. D) We can make that offer 11 months from now and not give up a guy with 5+ years of control Trading anyone of note from this roster for a rental is such a huge risk that they shouldn't be making 1 year into a rebuild.

QUOTE (SonofaRoache @ Dec 14, 2017 -> 12:43 AM) Why not? Our odds of signing him in FA are slim if you want to be honest. Already having him on the team gives us a 50/50 shot to keep him if we are willing to pay him market value. We have an up and coming team, great city, money to spend on FA's, and he could be the hero here, unlike other places. These guys don't give 2 s***s about that stuff, I don't know where people get that from. He's going to sign with whichever team pays him the most.

The fact that the #1 pitching prospect in baseball is even being floated as a trade for a rental, let alone Gio is insanity.