Chicago White Sox

QUOTE (Con te Giolito @ Dec 22, 2016 -> 07:08 PM) I have a feeling the hold up is less about Meadows and more about the Sox wanting Bell in the deal while the Pirates would rather include Glasnow. The lack of denial regarding Meadows involvement in talks or labeling of him as untouchable is a pretty telling sign that he's in as the prize. This may be a case where the Sox have to break their rule about not moving multiple trade chips in one deal. Specifically giving them Frazier to play 1b (and mash 40 HR) to offset the loss of Bell. I am 100% fine with this by the way. I'm not sure the Pirates have the money to afford both Quintana & Frazier and adding a 1B option on a one year deal doesn't make a lot of sense for them IMO.

QUOTE (NCsoxfan @ Dec 22, 2016 -> 05:40 PM) Why the infatuation with Bell? Is he a slightly better version of Chris Carter? Not a good comparison at all, they are completely different hitters.

QUOTE (Al Lopez's Ghost @ Dec 22, 2016 -> 05:07 PM) Heyman on MLB tonight right now. Says Glasgow plus others would have to go to the Sox, but not Meadows or Keller. So nothing new or dramatic. Glasnow, Bell, Newman, & Diaz works for me.

QUOTE (ptatc @ Dec 22, 2016 -> 04:39 PM) Why not? They are basically trying to lose next year anyway. It's not like they have anyone else to audition there. Well we could start Tilson & Liriano in CF & RF and then DH Avi. Just depends which guys you want to give at-bats to.

QUOTE (soxfan2014 @ Dec 22, 2016 -> 04:19 PM) As of now, there's room for both in the OF. Assuming no more moves, this how I think our lineup would shake out: 1B: Abreu 2B: Lawrie SS: Anderson 3B: Frazier LF: Cabrera CF: Tilson/Liriano RF: Garcia DH: Davidson Not that I agree with it, but I think they plan on giving Avi one last shot in RF. And with Melky unlikely to be moved, I don't see an everyday spot for both Tilson & Liriano.

I started Better Call Saul two nights ago. Definitely has that same binge watch feel that Breaking Bad had. Also hoping I can convince the wife to watch Fargo. Figure we could get through that in five days easy.

QUOTE (bmags @ Dec 22, 2016 -> 04:10 PM) The best part of rebuilding is being able to experiment with less than sure things or also-rans from other orgs and see who sticks. We were so hanging on a thread needing every bit of production we couldn't develop at major league level and we pushed everyone up to major league level as soon as we could squeeze an ounce of production from them. I am 100% confident one of our experiments (or more) will pan out next 2 years. Speaking of which, I'd rather give Liriano a look in CF next year than Tilson. He's the type of guy you give 600 ABs to in a lost season and hope you strike gold. If not, at least he's contributing towards a top pick.

QUOTE (beautox @ Dec 22, 2016 -> 03:51 PM) I don't know he could develop into a Denard Span type of player and that would be awesome. I'm not really buying Tilson being a capable defender in CF, at least not on an everyday basis. And he does not have the bat for a corner job. His future role is 4th OF and nothing more IMO.

QUOTE (knightni @ Dec 22, 2016 -> 03:15 PM) Machado will want ARod money - and he could get it. When ARod signed with Texas back in the day, I believe we had the second highest offer at $190M. With a new TV deal being in the works, I could definitely see Reinsdorf being very motivated to make a free agent splash to help boost its value. And clearly we'll have a ton of financial flexibility to fit such a salary in our budget. While it's unlikely we land a guy like Machado, I fully expect us to be in the mix.

QUOTE (steveno89 @ Dec 22, 2016 -> 03:12 PM) That farm system would be absolutely locked and loaded to compete in the next few years Add in some other shrewd moves and/or free agent signings and you are looking at a playoff team if things go well 1) Rodon 2) Glasnow 3) Giolito 4) Kopech 5) Lopez Pen arm possibilities (or other starters): Burdi, Dunning, Stephens, Adams, Fulmer, Hansen, Clark, Cooper C- Collins (fingers crossed) 1B - Abreu and/or Bell 2B - Moncada and/or Newman SS - Anderson 3B - ? OF- Meadows OF- Basabe OF- Tilson? DH - ? As a Sox fan you can dream of a scenario like this... God forbid anyone else in our system pans out like Call, Fisher, Engel, Michalczewski, Schnurbusch, etc. If Tilson is a starter, then our rebuild has gone very, very wrong at some point.

QUOTE (SoxPride18 @ Dec 22, 2016 -> 01:42 PM) Pirates get: Quintana and Granderson (1 year left) Mets get: McCuthcen and Robertson Sox get: Bell, Glasnow, Conforto, Smith, and Dunn Thoughts? At first though, I think this is light from the Mets side. That would be a horrible trade for the Pirates IMO.

QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ Dec 22, 2016 -> 08:28 AM) How did Micah end up on your list here? I don't understand the parallel with the others. Not even sure Thompson truly fits, as he turned out to be a major leaguer. I honestly think he just named every black, toolsy prospect he could think of.

QUOTE (Saufley @ Dec 22, 2016 -> 11:02 AM) Rosenthal on MLBN just now says with the signing of Nova that Glasnow could be a piece to the White Sox. If Glasnow is coming, I really hope Bell & Newman are coming too.

QUOTE (Dam8610 @ Dec 22, 2016 -> 10:30 AM) I'd throw Lopez in that "ace ceiling" mix as well, which is all the more reason to go for a Meadows and Bell centric package from Pittsburgh. That said, Meadows and Glasnow would be nice as well, and if the Sox end up with the "problem" of having too much good pitching, we see what Sale brought and what Q is likely to bring. I hate thinking this way, but in the highly unlikely scenario we have too much pitching, Rodon could become a massive trade chip to plug some offensive holes. Again, I'm not suggesting we do this, but it could be an option if we hit on enough of our young arms.

QUOTE (steveno89 @ Dec 22, 2016 -> 10:13 AM) All of us are high on Meadows, but I feel like we should pause and consider if the upside of Glasnow is arguably higher? Glasnow has a ceiling of a true #1 ace starting pitcher if he can improve his command. At every minor league level he has dominated, he just needs to cut down on walks. Meadows looks like he could be an excellent player, but a true #1 starter is even harder to find. If Glasnow is on the table and we pass, I could see the White Sox regretting that move in a few years. We already have three guys in the system with legit ace ceilings in Giolito, Kopech, & Hansen in addition to Rodon. I'd much rather get a positional anchor than another high upside arm. Having said that, I wouldn't pass on a Glasnow & Bell deal if that was the best I could get for Quintana.

QUOTE (Dunt @ Dec 22, 2016 -> 08:59 AM) Could Sox fans be happy with a package that doesnt include Meadows? Something along the lines of Glasnow, Bell, Newman for Q? While I'd obviously prefer Meadows, I would be satisfied with the package above.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Dec 22, 2016 -> 08:15 AM) If they're holding onto Meadows...then the basic question I'd ask is why they need to go out and get a #2 starting pitcher right now and why that's a priority rather than giving Bell, Meadows, and Glasnow time to develop? Yes, Quintana will still help them in 2018 and 2019, but why pay the premium price to get him in 2017 if you're transitioning Meadows into the OF? When you're a small market team like the Pirates, you constantly have to balance short-term & long-term goals. Acquiring Quintana, trading McCutchen for prospects, and starting Meadows in CF gives them a chance to compete next year without completely mortgaging their future. It also sets them up very nicely for the 2018 & 2019 seasons. I'm not sure I get your "pay the premium to get him in 2017" comment. TOR starters are prescious commodities and cost-controlled ones are even rarer. If the Pirates think they'll eventually need one to be legit contenders, why not strike now when the perfect option is available, especially when the price may not be radically different in a year. I know if I was the Pirates GM I wouldn't want to waste another year. Cole is only under contract for three more years. Marte is already 28 years old and could start regressing in a few years. Those are their best two players if you assume Cutch is no longer an elite player. Another important player in Kang will also be a free agent after the 2019 season. At some point, the Pirates either need to sort of "go for it" or consider selling off some parts and push back their competitive window. Adding a a cheaper TOR starter Quintana makes perfect sense if they want to give a legit shot with the core they have in place.

QUOTE (TheFutureIsNear @ Dec 22, 2016 -> 07:28 AM) If Meadows really is "untouchable" is there a package that would work. Would the Pirates do Bell, Glasnow, Keller, and Newman? Would/Should we do that? They should definitely do that trade if offered it, but the Pirates aren't trading four top 100 guys in the same deal and I think they'd like to keep one of Glasnow & Keller. I think if you swap out Keller for Diaz you might have something that's a bit more realistic and still a haul for us. Ultimately I think if Meadows is untouchable, then we must get both Glasnow & Bell.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Dec 21, 2016 -> 06:02 PM) one of the ESPNers (Buster?) had an article today where they discussed this being the slowest offseason they can remember, everyone is holding out waiting for prices to drop. Edit: full piece and quote and Insider Version The uncertainty over the CBA surely slowed things down, just surprised there hasn't been a ton of activity since the Winter Meetings.

QUOTE (GreenSox @ Dec 21, 2016 -> 05:14 PM) Giants Trade him for Trevor Brown. Mets could use him too. Astros need a 1B, DH - would have fit seamlessly had we snagged Bergman. What am I missing with Trevor Brown? I'll admit I know nothing about him, but I don't see much to like based on a quick google search. Seems like there are better prospects to target, perhaps a guy like Chris Shaw could work.

QUOTE (Jose Abreu @ Dec 21, 2016 -> 05:10 PM) I have been surprised by the lack of Frazier rumors. What contenders need a 3B? Doesn't really seem like there is much of a market based on the contract Turner got.

QUOTE (beautox @ Dec 21, 2016 -> 04:43 PM) ....thats like 10% of the list.... When Jones, Abreu, Robertson, Frazier, Migo, Jennings, Melky and Lawrie get moved its entirely possibly we're looking at 15 of the top 100. Very few of those guys will land top 100 types. Abreu & Robertson need to reastablish their value, while Frazier needs a better 3B market. The rest of the guys outside of Jones won't sniff a top 100 prospect IMO.

Holy s***, there are 140+ users reading this thread.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Dec 21, 2016 -> 01:52 PM) I'm not against getting a high upside arm in a Quintana deal, but I am against getting one that would be MLB-ready in 2017 or 2018. While I agree you cannot have too much pitching, I believe that you can have too much pitching that arrives all at once. Having no role for one of these guys at the moment they were ready would be an extremely bad move - you'd be minimizing the utility of the talent you have, when the best way to rebuild is to maximize every asset you have. We're trying to develop these guys and that means we need to have slots open for them when they arrive. 5 young pitchers in the 2018 rotation is a good number. You give me a guy who will be in A-ball this year and I'm ok with that return, AA I'm much more questionable, AAA or big league ready and basically I would treat their value as being that of a reliever, because even if that pitcher doesn't wind up in the bullpen he'd push one of the guys we already acquired into the pen. Assuming Q gets traded, we'll only have one guy guaranteed a spot in our rotation in Rodon. Right now, the only near major league ready guys are Giolito, Lopez, & Fulmer. Once June comes along and if these guys prove they are ready, we'll make room for them. The next wave of guys (Kopech, Adams, Stephens) will be starting the year in AA and probably be ready for a shot at the big leagues until mid 2018 best case scenario. Even if the four guys I previously mentioned all stay healthy and are showing signs of becoming productive major league starters, which is unlikely IMO, we'd still have room for one of these AA arms to crack the rotation. And in the unlikely event we're overloaded with pitching, we can move some of these guys for a bat. I get what you're saying Balta, but I don't think our pitching depth in the upper minors is as overloaded as you think.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Dec 21, 2016 -> 12:22 PM) There is zero chance the White Sox have too much pitching, but they do need to get at least some position players. Pitchers do have a higher bust rate. 2 or 3 years from now, if you need to fill 4 or 5 staring position players spots, you are going to be having some problems. I agree with this. Between Rodon, Giolito, Lopez, Kopech, Fulmer, Hansen, Adams, & Stephens we have a lot of interesting arms, but only one of them is an established major league starter. While I would prefer to add some positional players, I'm not completely against getting another high upside arm in a Quintana deal. Ultimately with our blue chip assets we need to get back the most value possible regardless of position.