Chicago White Sox

QUOTE (fathom @ Feb 2, 2017 -> 11:34 PM) One thing I have wondered last few days is if Hammel hasn't signed yet because he has an agreement with the Sox that will be announced after Q trade That could be very possible, as it's been awfully strange that he hasn't signed a contract already in such a pitching poor market. I know the guys on the CSN Sox podcast were speculating him wanting to stay in Chicago and signing with the Sox.

QUOTE (Y2JImmy0 @ Feb 2, 2017 -> 10:58 PM) http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/mlb/c...vival/97431050/ Wow. Jim Crain flat out saying they are trying to get Quintana. This is a good sign. Thanks, Bob. Holy s***, nice find. Honestly, I'd be shocked if Quintana is on our team come February 14th, with the Astros the obvious favorites. That basically leaves 11 days to get a deal done.

QUOTE (Baron @ Feb 2, 2017 -> 08:19 PM) Eaton had like +21 DRS in RF last year. So that's not surprising. What was Avi's in 2015?

QUOTE (JUSTgottaBELIEVE @ Feb 2, 2017 -> 08:04 PM) Doesn't necessarily have to break camp with the big league team but I would be very surprised if he wasn't called up before July 4th (unless something went terribly wrong, like hitting .225 in AAA). Between injuries and trades it's hard to imagine a scenario where he doesn't get significant big league action in 2017. That's fine, but he also has to beat Liriano, May, both Garcia's, & maybe even Delmonico for playing time. Obviously that isn't the toughest of competition, but if he's struggling in AAA when positions open up, I'm sure they'll go with one of those other options, at least temporarily.

QUOTE (oldsox @ Feb 2, 2017 -> 07:38 PM) Rushing Engel? This is his 5th year of pro ball, after 3 yrs of college ball. He only has 161 plate appearances in AAA in which he struck out 31% of the time. I'd call giving him a stating gig out of spring training would be rushing.

QUOTE (JUSTgottaBELIEVE @ Feb 2, 2017 -> 06:38 PM) Didn't put them in any particular order in previous post. I'd go LF - Tilson, CF - Engel, RF - Bourjos. And yes it would be brutal offensively but so is Avi. Might as well field a top 5 outfield defense then. Sure would help our future trade chips Q and Robertson. I mean, it's an interesting way to tank. I'll give you that. Just don't see them rushing Engel. He still has a non-zero chance of being a special player if (and it's a big one) he could ever learn to make consistent contact.

Nice job as always. Only have three comments: 1) Davidson is very likely to be on the major league roster, not sure Sanchez makes the cut 2) Sounds like Victor Diaz may be starting next year based on some comments from SoxFest 3) I hope to god that Adolfo doesn't start the year in A+, would be bad for his development IMO

QUOTE (ptatc @ Feb 2, 2017 -> 06:15 PM) I thought i read somewhere that he was the best defensive OF the Cardinals had. And they had some good ones. Everything I've read suggests he's average at best out there.

QUOTE (soxfan2014 @ Feb 2, 2017 -> 06:04 PM) Bourjos, who I think makes the team as 4th OF. Is Bourjos even that good of an OF anymore? I really don't see a scenario where we have an elite defensive OF unless we go with Engel in CF & Tilson in LF, which would basically be giving up on having an offense.

QUOTE (JUSTgottaBELIEVE @ Feb 2, 2017 -> 06:14 PM) An outfield of Engel/Tilson/Bourjos would be quite stout defensively No way in hell Tilson would start in CF over Engel, but regardless that might be the worst offensive OF in baseball history. You might not get 15 HRs out of that OF.

QUOTE (Sleepy Harold @ Feb 2, 2017 -> 04:54 PM) MLB Network @MLBNetwork Trade talks for Jose Quintana are reportedly heating up! @BNightengale joins #MLBTonight with the latest buzz at 6pE. For anyone interested to hear the same things we've been hearing for a couple months now. Did anyone see this interview?

QUOTE (ptatc @ Feb 2, 2017 -> 04:28 PM) I wouldn't think it would be that drastic of a change. Cabrera will be the same. They lose with Eaton gone but improve with Tilson in CF and I would think a better CF is more valuable than a decrease in RF. Going from Adam Eaton (2016 version) to Avi Garcia in RF is probably as big of a defensive drop as conceivably possible. Tilson may be an improvement in CF, but he's not really not that good out there. He will not come close to making up the difference in lost RF defense.

QUOTE (IowaSoxFan @ Feb 2, 2017 -> 04:26 PM) I think it is too soon to know what the Sox are going to be on defense. If Garcia is DFA'ed in ST and Cabrera becomes the everyday DH, they could have one of the better defensive OF's in baseball. Or they could with the all Garcia OF to try and tank. Too many permutations at this time to buy into what they are selling. Who is even left to play OF at that point to form "one of the better defensive OF's in baseball"?

QUOTE (ChiSoxFanMike @ Feb 2, 2017 -> 07:20 AM) I feel like Martes/Tucker/Laureano/Pick is a fair deal. I think Hahn could get more if he waited but I understand why he wouldn't want to. I was going to propose that exact package or one with Reed instead of Laureano. Regardless, I think either package would be very solid from an overall talent perspective, falling somewhere between the Sale & Eaton returns. Sure, Tucker may not be the positional headliner we were dreaming of, but I honestly think there's a good chance he's a top 20 prospect by mid-season. Laureano seems to be criminally underrated and Reed would be a great buy-low candidate. And while that pick is effectively a low end #2 pick, Hostetler was able to land Hansen, Call, & Fisher after the first round in last year's draft. And I haven't even mentioned Martes who gives us another starting pitching prospect with TOR potential. There's a lot to like here, although I can see why some posters would be disappointed, especially if they don't believe Tucker's power will ever develop or if they think Martes is ultimately a reliever.

QUOTE (Soha @ Feb 2, 2017 -> 07:07 AM) I think something is going to happen too. If you follow the Pirates blogger Rum Bunter, he's been saying for a while he KNOWS the Sox want to move Quintana before the season. Bruce Levine has hinted this as well. This all makes sense and comes together. They can't come out and say it, but they clearly want to tank for Beer or one of the high school phenoms scheduled for the 2018 draft, and having Quintana on the team doesn't help that cause. And they should prioritize the future draft pick with everything they do. In other words, don't hold out on 3 deals for that little bit extra, when it can cost you a lotta bit extra come the 2018 draft if we end up picking 6th instead of 1st or 2nd. There's no other ways to get guys like this, unless you get lucky with a slightly later pick. Prospects the caliber of Seth Beer or Kris Bryant or Kyle Schwarber just don't get traded. The Sox are probably learning that a bit as they have been rebuffed in trying to get guys like Meadows, Bregman or Torres this winter. So to conclude, I think Quintana does get moved and probably for what many of us will consider a slightly disappointing return. It feels like the Sox backed themselves in to a corner here and all of MLB knows it. I agree with this. I don't think Hahn will necessarily settle, but I do think he'll take something near the bottom end of his acceptable range that some posters here may find dissapointing. Personally, I'd be ecstatic with a four player package from Houston that was headlined by Martes & Tucker. Given the depth of their system a newly available comp pick, the 3rd & 4th pieces could be incredibly valuable.

Things just might be heating up with the Astros. Phil Rogers says we have revisited traded talks with Houston. The Astros were just awarded two additional draft picks for the next draft. And finally, Bob Nightengale with the obvious Sox office front leak stating talks with divisional rival Texas are getting more serious. I'll continue to shout this, but a move prior to season start makes too much sense for both clubs. The AL West is going to be competitive and I'm not sure Houston can afford to wait to fill what appears to be a pretty big need. Meanwhile, moving Quintana before opening day greatly improves our tank efforts. I'm not sure what the holdup is here, but I'm getting more confident these teams will find a happy medium before opening day with Martes, Tucker, ++ coming back to the southside for Quintana.

QUOTE (bmags @ Feb 1, 2017 -> 07:46 PM) To clarify, he was specifically asked about Beer, he didn't bring him up out of blue. What was Hostetler asked about Beer?

QUOTE (Y2JImmy0 @ Feb 1, 2017 -> 06:37 PM) No Q puts them in top 3 pick territory. There are 2 HS guys that are very highly regarded as well. I think with Q gone this team is easily bottom three and legit threat for the #1 pick. The rotation for the first few months would be Rodon, Gonzalez, Shields, Holland, & a filler like Covey. That's an absolutely horrific rotation. And even if guys like Giolito, Lopez, & Fulmer were productive when called up, the offense & bullpen should see some important players traded away as the season progresses. This team will be bad no matter what, but I really think trading Quintana exponentially improves our chances of landing a potential future superstar like Beer in the draft.

QUOTE (soxfan2014 @ Feb 1, 2017 -> 05:36 PM) Probably just tossed his name out since hes a college bat. Hostetler specifically mentioned Beer at SoxFest and said they've had scouting reports on him since he was 14. I wouldn't downplay their interest in him.

QUOTE (NCsoxfan @ Jan 31, 2017 -> 08:48 AM) Yeah three in the top 100, but no top 10-15 players like Moncada/Kopech. 3 guys in the 30-100 range is very different than 1 in the top 5, 1 in the top 15, etc You can't expect the Sale package for Quintana. Martes is ranked #20 & Tucker is ranked #35 by mlbpipeline. That's pretty close in value to Giolito (#12) & Lopez (#46), maybe even a little bit better. Reed was a highly regarded prospect just a year ago. If you believe in him, you're potentially getting middle of the lineup, left-handed hitter at a huge discount. The fact that he's major league ready is a huge plus, because we can actually give him a couple seasons to develop without putting undue pressure on him. The compensation pick is simply a bonus, but one that gives us more flexibility in the draft. And honestly, given how promising the early returns look from Nick Hostetler's first full draft, I'm willing to go ahead and invest in him with more picks whenever possible.

QUOTE (Y2JImmy0 @ Jan 31, 2017 -> 08:36 AM) That's why I fear that Hahn is asking for more than that which is kind of nuts if actually wants to move Q. That's been my assumption all season. My concern is that he's asking for a Sale level headliner and that's just never going to happen IMO. Something between the Sale & Eaton packages should be the goal. And I think Martes & Tucker is about even with Giolito & Lopez in terms of headliners. Reed (if the Sox believe in him) + a compensation pick is better than Dunning as the secondary pieces. I honestly think that's a pretty fair deal for both sides.

QUOTE (steveno89 @ Jan 31, 2017 -> 08:31 AM) From a surplus value standpoint, Quintana is worth roughly $133 million over the next 4 seasons Using fangraphs prospect surplus value as one way (not the only for sure) to evaluate prospect values Martes comes in at $39.00 million and Tucker comes in at $38.2 million for a total of $77 million. We are short easily 62 million in surplus value to make a deal happen I'd propose Martes + Tucker + Reed + Perez. Astros probably wouldn't do it, but it allows them to keep Paulino/Musgrove/Whitley/Fisher in their system How did you calculate that surplus value? And how much of that is coming in 2017 & 2018 when's Quintanta's production will be completely worthless for us? We don't have break even in projected surplus value to come out and ahead here. Also, I think Jimmy's deal makes a lot of sense if you get a quality 3rd piece like Paulino, Reed, Fisher, etc. plus that compensation pick. That's a lot of talent and I am very skeptical you will ever do significantly better than that. I have a strong feeling that the international free agency rule changes will result in big market teams hoarding prospects moreso than they do currently. Prospect values will likely only increase from this point forward IMO.

QUOTE (Y2JImmy0 @ Jan 31, 2017 -> 07:51 AM) There's no way Martes is off the table. That's a load of crap. He was offered for Archer. I talked to some Astros fans and they think that Archer thing was a leak and Astros prefer Quintana. Well I hope you're right and honestly thought Luhnow would be high on Quintana given his focus on analytics. Having said that, I really thought a Quintana trade to the Astros would ultimately happen if no one else jumped in with substantial offers and I'm pretty surprised it's January 31st and Q is still on our roster. You would think if Luhnow was willing to give up Martes & Tucker he would have offered them by now and a deal would already be done.

QUOTE (Y2JImmy0 @ Jan 31, 2017 -> 07:23 AM) I think something like Tucker, Martes, 3rd piece, 75th pick is fair. I'm not sure Rick Hahn agrees or this would probably be done. I agree that would be fair, but the newest rumor suggests Martes is off the table. Just not sure what to believe anymore with Luhnow, because he seems like the type of GM who would likely overvalue his prospects. But to your point, I would hope Hahn would have taken that deal already as long as the 3rd piece was pretty solid.

QUOTE (soxfan2014 @ Jan 31, 2017 -> 06:40 AM) Trading Musgrove doesn't hurt their pitching depth since yhey are receiving a pitcher to step in at the top of the rotation. The Astros willy likely have a rotation of Keuchel, McCullers, McHugh, Morton, & Musgrove or Fiers, with Martes & Paulion at AAA to start the season. Dealing one of Martes or Musgrove does not hurt their depth. I think everyone here can see the real problem for them and that's not having a reliable TOR starter. Quintana is exactly what they need right now and his contract aligns perfectly with their competive window. I honestly have no idea what Luhnow is thinking, but I have a feeling he's going to be desperate for a TOR starter as we get closer to the deadline.