Chicago White Sox

QUOTE (Pumpkin Escobar @ Aug 5, 2009 -> 09:54 AM) I know this thread is about Dye's extension but I have seen a few posts touching on Alexi. I'm all for bringing Dye back and letting him play RF/DH. Depending on what we find to replace Thome as a LH Power bat or Dye in Rf. I know the idea has been tossed around a lot with how well Beckham is playing but I don't think we should be looking into moving Alexi unless it is basically straight up for a very good MLB player. I think it is his 2nd year here and his first playing short. He is still learning the game a bit with regards to how it is played here and his defense, among other things I like to think will improve. He has a great contract, a world of talent and unless you're bringing back another beast - I just don't think he is worth moving. I’m in complete agreement with you on Alexei. I can’t believe how many people on this site want to get rid of him. I think a lot of people are just upset with his defense, but I feel like some are overvaluing our current middle infield depth. Alexei is already an above-average shortstop with all the tools needed to become an elite one. He’s under contract for the next two seasons at $1.1 million per and then will eligible for arbitration the following two. You don’t move Alexei unless you are getting back a young, inexpensive MLB player who fits another need. I’m talking about a guy like Matt Kemp for example. Otherwise, you at least hold on to him for the next two seasons while he’s still so cheap. I understand Chris Getz is a nice player, but you don’t move a cheap, talented player like Alexei to keep a ‘grinder’ in the lineup.

QUOTE (Pumpkin Escobar @ Aug 4, 2009 -> 11:08 AM) Crawford will command good players. 3 of them. One top 50 kind of prospect. Flowers is who I see it as. Then I'll say two arms in single-A with good upside. They dont have multiple years on his contract and if they dont deal him in the offseason, his value is only going to go down just that much mroe by the deadline. No way the Rays accept that package. It will take at least two top 100 prospects (one top 50) and possibly another high-upside guy to get him IMO. We're talking about two advanced players (AA/AAA) who will be able to contribute in the next two years. Something like Flowers and Hudson. The last guy would be probably need to be a high-upside arm like Leesman or Infante who's farther away from helping. I would not trade that kind of talent for one year of Crawford, especially with Mitchell in the system.

QUOTE (RockRaines @ Jul 31, 2009 -> 09:11 AM) Lost in this walk off is going to be how great Beckham was defensively last night. I am in NYC so the YES network is showing the game over and over and over, and I dont think alot of people are going to remember how dominant he was in the early innings at 3B. Definitely, Beckham keeps looking better and better at 3B. Stone made a comment about this last night and it was right on the button. I really think our infield defense could be really solid these last two months. The outfield defense is another story.

QUOTE (son of a rude @ Jul 30, 2009 -> 05:35 PM) I would much rather trade Alexei, Poreda, Richard, Fields, and Shelby. Flowers is our catcher of the future, and he looks like he will be a good one. Imo, Hudson is our best pitching prospect in our system. Flowers and Hudson are both great prospects who have the talent to become above average major leaguers. Alexei is already an above average major league shortstop and Richard is showing signs of being at worse a solid left-handed back of the rotation starter. The value they add to the team not only from a production standpoint but also a cost certainty perspective is immense. Alexei and Richard have shown they won’t succumb to the pressures of playing for and against major league baseball teams. Flowers and Hudson simply have not. At this point in time, Alexei and Richard are more valuable to the team now and in the future than Flowers and Hudson. A couple years from now that could all change. Looking just at this season, trading Alexei and Richard for Halladay is counter-productive to trying to win it all. If you are going to try to improve your team by acquiring an impact player, you can’t trade important pieces off your major league roster unless you have the depth to replace it. Unfortunately, the Sox do not have solid replacements waiting in the wings so it makes much more sense to trade Flowers and Hudson IMO.

QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Jul 30, 2009 -> 04:05 PM) And if he walks a year from now, you will expect to get 2 picks as compensation. I don’t make this trade. The Sox are giving up too much for a guy who’s under contact for only one more season. I understand the picks are nice to have, but it will take several years for them to become valuable if at all. Plus you’re giving up two key pieces to our major-league team in Richard and Ramirez. Who replaces Alexei? Nix? That’s a huge drop-off offensively IMO. Not to mention you’ve traded away your best two options for a second left-hander in the pen come playoff time. If you’re serious about competing, then you need to acquire a legitimate 3B or SS to replace Alexei and a lefty for the pen. That’s going to cost us even more young talent. Considering how old our current core, it doesn’t seem like wise to trade it all. I’d make one last offer to the Blue Jays. Flowers, Poreda, Hudson and Fields for Halladay. That’s three of our top 5 prospects plus an intriguing throw-in. There is very little chance the Jays accept that trade, but I doubt they’ll get a better one. This Halladay situation reminds me of the Mark Teixeira scenario. Two deadlines ago, the Rangers had tons of leverage since Mark was locked up for another season and demanded a huge package for him. The Braves eventually gave their top 4 prospects to acquire him. The next season when the Braves faded out of contention, they traded Teixeira for Casey f***ing Kotchman. Texas played it smart by taking the best offer knowing Mark’s value would only decrease. If the Jays don’t move Halladay by tomorrow, I really think they’re going to regret it for a long time.

QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Jul 23, 2009 -> 01:56 PM) Would you guys do Richard/Poreda/Hudson/Flowers/Shelby (or Fields or Anderson) for Haren? Yes in a heartbeat. QUOTE (Tony82087 @ Jul 23, 2009 -> 02:48 PM) You let them pick any four players in the organization. Buehrle-Old Danks-Floyd-Quentin-Beckham are totally off the table. They want someone like Lexi, obviously the package changes a bit, but again, those five are totally off the table, everyone else is fair game for Haren, If you can have a 1-4 of Haren-Buehrle-Floyd-Danks(R-L-R-L) for the next two-three years, you make it happen. I might move Alexei in a package for Haren. In fact, he’s one of the few players in baseball I’d actually consider moving Alexei for. However, I would not make such a trade until after the season for two reasons. First, I don’t like our options at 3B if we lose Alexei and shift Beckham back to SS. Sure we could acquire someone, but it’s going to cost a lot to get someone of Alexei’s caliber who’s not a base-clogger at 3B. Second, I don’t like moving any significant major league pieces for Haren right now. He’s got a bad history of falling off in the 2nd half. That doesn’t automatically mean he won’t be successful with us, but there is still some inherent risk. If it only costs minor league talent, then I’m totally down with making the move now.

I can't believe he made this catch the same day my authentic Wise jersey got delivered!?!

QUOTE (BearSox @ Jul 22, 2009 -> 09:11 PM) I think Buchholz is a bit overrated, and I wouldn't trade Gordon for him... but I'd definitely be tempted to trade Alexei for him (if the BoSox would agree to the deal). What is with you wanting to trading Alexei? He's a huge piece of our future. Also, his defense has been a lot better lately. He might just be the complete package at SS. KW should only trade him in a huge package.

QUOTE (SoxFan1 @ Jul 21, 2009 -> 03:53 PM) So this means we'll have Richard, Colon, and Torres all starting in the same week? Wow... And I bet we somehow go 2-1 in those three games.

No offense to all the haters, but this move makes sense for the time-being. Wise is our only lefty on the bench. Based on the current structure of the team, he holds more value than Anderson does both as a pinch-hitter and as a backup for Dye and Quentin against some righties. Additionally, Nix can play left field against tough lefties (moving Quentin to DH) further diminishing Anderson’s value. Yes, I would love to keep Anderson around for his defense, but there is no room for him at this time. And trust me I despise Wise just as much as the next guy. IMO, the real crime here is keeping Josh Fields on the 25 man roster. He can only play 3B (so can Nix) and 1B. He’s a right-handed hitter backing up right-handed hitters. He doesn’t bring any exceptional qualities as a bench player either. This team desperately needs a left-handed corner infielder who can also play some LF and possibly RF on the bench. If the Royals would take Fields and a low-level minor leaguer for Mark Teahan I’d do that in a heartbeat. He would get plenty of playing time between 1B, 3B, LF and RF and add a nice bat off the bench when not starting. Plus, then you could dump Wise and bring up Anderson again for defensive purposes. I don’t even care if it’s Teahan, but I’m fairly certain KW will add a guy like him. Hopefully with this s***ty economy, we can get a player like this fairly cheap.

QUOTE (Kenny Hates Prospects @ Jul 19, 2009 -> 02:05 PM) I like the idea that has been mentioned before on this board where the Sox work in another team in a Jenks deal. But still, dealing for Halladay now could definitely hurt us. With Allen gone, Flowers is our only 1B in the system IMO. Even though he's a catcher, he could be moved there, and with Phegley in the system and Flowers in Charlotte already that might end up happening. Dealing Flowers would then leave us with nothing after Paulie. Dealing Hudson and any pitching prospects is no problem for me because we're talking about Halladay. But that's not going to be enough either, and I don't like the idea of parting with Alexei, Floyd, Danks, or D2 (for reasons related to D1). What about: Sox trade: Bobby Jenks + cash to TB, Viciedo, Richard, any 3 eligible MiLB players except D2 or Flowers Sox get: Roy Halladay Rays trade: Reid Brignac, prospect(s) Rays get: Bobby Jenks, cash from Sox in '09 Jays trade: Roy Halladay Jays get: Reid Brignac + Rays prospect(s), Viciedo, Richard, 3 more Sox prospects That's probably not enough unless we include Flowers, but I wouldn't do that unless we got a 1B prospect back. If Kenny doesn't make the Allen deal and Flowers is added, and if the TB part is realistic, that would be very competitive package IMO. Are you really proposing trading 6 players for Halladay? One who is a major league closer worth probably 3 solid prospects. You're essentially trading 8 players for a year and a half of Halladay. Why are you so hell bent on gutting the system to acquire Halladay?

QUOTE (longshot7 @ Jul 14, 2009 -> 05:09 PM) Maybe I am crazy, but I'd trade Beckham. Straight up only tho - no one else. I wouldn't deal Beckham straight up for Halladay. Beckham is about as close to a guaranteed future star as you’re ever going to see. Six more seasons of Beckham for a total cost of roughly $20 million is insanely more valuable than a year and a half of Halladay.

QUOTE (knightni @ Jul 13, 2009 -> 12:42 PM) If Fields gets dealt, he'd be a good replacement for backup 3rd/1st/corner OF You're 100% correct. It would be great to have a left-handed corner infielder/outfielder on our bench. I don't see the value Fields provides when Konerko, Beckham, Dye and Quentin are all righties. However, I wouldn't trade much to get him.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jul 10, 2009 -> 04:36 PM) Brian Anderson's hitting over the last 1.5 months is the only bad sign Brian Anderson should care about. I don't disagree. I can't believe I'm saying this, but I think we have to keep Wise over Anderson. We still need a lefty off the bench and he's essentially the only option when Getz is starting at 2B. I think it's very likely we'll see Brian get sent down when Quentin gets called up and possibly even sooner if they decide to go with Colon as the 6th starter.

QUOTE (Kenny Hates Prospects @ Jul 10, 2009 -> 04:26 PM) Linebrink probably wouldn't go anywhere anyway. Who would take that contract? If someone would, I'd move him. I wouldn't care how absurd you or anyone else thought that move was. The fact is, in this economy, we can get a lot more out of $4-5M than Linebrink. Linebrink was market value when we signed him, but now it's a bad contract. I'm speaking as if we could deal him, which I'd try to do. Yes, I'd look at dealing Richard because I see him as a lefty reliever, and with Thornton and Poreda, we don't need 3 of them. Dotel gets us nothing beyond this year as it is. If the choice is Dotel for the rest of this year or no Dotel for the rest of this year and pieces for 2010 and beyond, then I choose to trade Dotel. The same reason I trade Dotel now is the same reason I don't trade for a short-term upgrade over Chris Getz right now. 6 roster moves? I'm talking about trading one player, trying to trade another, and then taking offers on a 3rd. Kenny brought in Pena for the future, and now our pen is packed with guys who will struggle to get work if the starters are going deep into games. If Richard loses his rotation spot and goes to the pen it becomes even more packed with guys who need work. And Poreda should stay where he is and up his workload, not go to the rotation. If we were able to unload Linebrink, then since we can take on salary, ideally I'd look for a veteran in the last year of his contract available in mostly a salary dump where we would give up negligible talent. I don't care if we'd get negligible talent from Linebrink as long as his contract was gone. Dotel would get us something nice, as would Richard, so I'm actually talking about adding value to the organization going forward even if it means weakening the pen as it stands. You talk about Carlos Torres' stuff being underwhelming, and by all accounts it is. And Poreda has a developing slider and a fastball, and that's not enough either. Richard has not been the answer. So, I don't know why trading Richard would make us so much worse off than we are now. I wouldn't trade him just to trade him, but I'd see what we could get for him. As for the 5th starter spot, maybe Colon or Freddy step up. Until then, and if we can't cheaply acquire a 5th starter, then I try Torres. If he doesn't work I try someone else. When we can, I'd skip the 5th spot. Like I said, I wasn’t trying to offend you. I just don’t think your idea is possible if we plan on contending. Here is my feedback. Now that we have Pena, I might let someone take Linebrink off our hand before the trading deadline. I would need to be certain that Pena can be an effective setup man in the AL this year. However, I doubt we find a buyer and if we do, he has to agree to go to that team. I don’t see it happening. I don’t like dealing Richard because I think he at worst has great value out of the bullpen later this season and hopefully as a starter by next. If we do make the playoffs, I’d love to have Thornton, Poreda and Richard coming from the left-side. They could cause a lot of problems for other teams late in games. You’re probably right that Dotel will get us nothing after this season. If we really want to compete this year, I still can’t see letting him go. He’s one of our best pure strikeout pitchers and there will certain situations that will call for him specifically. I also think KW will try to extend him to a minor discount in the off-season. If he doesn’t come to terms, he’ll let him walk for nothing. Here’s what I meant by six roster moves. We’ve already traded for Pena (1). You proposed trading Linebrink (2) and Dotel (3). By trading Richard (4a), I assumed you would be moving Poreda (4b) to the rotation. You want to trade for a cheaper, replacement reliever (5) as well as call up someone from our minor leagues (6). That’s an insane amount of activity, even if you keep Poreda in the pen. IMO, it seems extremely stupid when dealing with one of the best bullpens in baseball. I don’t disagree that we have a ton of guys that will need to get work. It’s now on Ozzie to use frequently and effectively. As for replacing Richard in the 5th sparter spot, I don’t think I ever want to see Colon pitch on this team again. I was at the game when he gave up like 5 or 6 home runs and I wanted to vomit just watching him. I haven’t heard any reports on Garcia so I won’t comment on him. I’m not saying Torres can’t make in the MLB either, I just have no reason to expect him to at this time. I wouldn’t be completely against giving him a chance, but I strongly feel Poreda deserves a shot first. I also agree that skipping the 5th starter spot as often as possible makes a lot of sense.

QUOTE (Heads22 @ Jul 10, 2009 -> 04:25 PM) If Wise is starting in LF, that's gotta be a good sign in regards to Carlos, doesn't it? I think you're right. But it also might be a bad sign for Brian Anderson.

QUOTE (greg775 @ Jul 10, 2009 -> 03:38 PM) Special K, not many teams have 5 good starters. It looked early on that Richard was going to be the surprise of the season. And he still might be. I think Scenario mentioned sending him back to AAA to get his stuff worked out. Makes a ton of sense to me. I still think he has a chance to be an above-average starter in the AL. He just needs to figure some s*** out and come back up with a fresh mind. It's way too early to give up on him long-term at least.

QUOTE (Kenny Hates Prospects @ Jul 10, 2009 -> 03:45 PM) I wouldn't move Poreda. Poreda + Thornton from the left side Jenks as the closer Hopefully get good value out of Richard, Dotel, Linebrink Pena from the right side Call up a reliever Trade for a lesser veteran arm who doesn't cost much but can pitch in the 7th inning (Danys Baez maybe?) Carrasco stays in LR Yes our pen would be weaker than it is right now, but we're not getting anything for Dotel unless we offer arb, which we won't do because he'll accept. And now might be the best time to try and clear out Linebrink's contract. And Richard we don't have to deal, but I take offers because I'm happy with Thornton + Poreda as the lefties. They are our best options. No offense, but this is completely absurd. You expect KW to move his two most experienced relievers in the middle of the playoff chase? And to make it even more unlikely, Linebrink has a NTC. I honestly don't see him wanting to leave. Plus you want him to trade Richard and acquire another reliever? When is the last time a GM has broken up a great bullpen by making 6 roster moves in July?? Not going to happen. Who are you going to bring up from the minors? I know Carlos Torres has great stats, but I've never heard one report on him having above average or major league stuff. I don't see any other option that even looks remotely interesting. Why change something that is working? If we do make the playoffs, having a deep and strong bullpen could be a huge difference maker.

QUOTE (ChiSox_Sonix @ Jul 10, 2009 -> 03:43 PM) If we're dealing Jenks for Hermida i'd like to add Sinkbeil, Jai Miller and maybe someone else like a Van den Hurk to the package Where is this Jenks talk coming from? KW is not going to deal him this season unless we are like 6 games out at the deadline. I can see him moving him in the off-season, but definitely not now. The fan base would see it as conceding the season, which is exactly what it would be. I don't even want to imagine what attendance would be like in August and September if KW gave up when we have a great shot at the division.

QUOTE (Kenny Hates Prospects @ Jul 10, 2009 -> 03:11 PM) Supposedly the Marlins were willing to give up Hermida for Capps, and this writer thinks they should be willing to give up Cody Ross, Hermida, or Uggla for a respectable closer, which shows how much they need one. We don't need all these relievers, and since Dotel is a FA after the year and probably won't get arb from us which means we get zero draft picks, we should shop him to teams like the Marlins who really need an arm at the back of the pen. Also, I like Poreda and Thornton as lefties in the pen, so I'd shop Richard too. And it's time to shop Linebrink since we're at it. Maybe we can find a contender to give us a prospect plus take over the rest of his contract out of desperation. I'm not talking about becoming a seller either, just talking about getting some value out of some guys while we can. I think we do need all these relievers. We now have four solid options from the right side not including Jenks. Carrasco is our long reliever and his durability is extremely valuable with Richard (and possibly Poreda soon) in the rotation. We shoud NOT move him from that role with the success he's been having (I know he's sucked of late but whatever). Plus he can serve as our sixth starters in double-headers if need be. Therefore, we're talking about three right-handed guys that can be setup men. Since there is no guarantee that Linebrink will remain healthy and/or effective the whole season, I think it's extremely important to keep both Pena and Dotel. Additionally, I don't trust any of minor leaguers to come up right now and immedietely produce. As for shopping Richard, I think that would be a huge mistake. What are you even going to get for him at this point? If you move Poreda into the rotation, you'll eventually need Richard to replace him in the bullpen. Unless we are moving him as a piece in a larger trade, then I think you're best off holding on to him for now. Hermida is an interesting name, but you got to start wondering if he will ever put it together. If the Sox weren't competing right now, I'd take a flier on him in a heartbeat and shut down Quentin for the rest of the season. Right now, I'd pass on trading for him unless you can get him cheaply using minor league talent.

QUOTE (BearSox @ Jul 9, 2009 -> 09:38 PM) He's like a glorified Ryan Sweeney right now, IMO. I don't see why the Pirates would want another "potential filled OF" who hasn't shown he can hit for power, but they've done a lot of stupid things this year, IMO. I guess their plan is throw s*** at the wall and see what sticks. Did someone sign onto your account and write this??? I thought you loved Ryan Sweeney

QUOTE (GreatScott82 @ Jul 9, 2009 -> 02:51 PM) Alexie, Poreda and Flowers and a couple of single a prospects for Halladay and Rolen and I say the Blue Jays pull the trigger. Yeah, I'm sure they'd pull the trigger. Please tell me you don't want to trade Alexie in such a package?? That would be a horrible trade.

QUOTE (beck72 @ Jul 9, 2009 -> 12:01 PM) IMO, the sox could be more likely to trade for Rios, or Vernon Wells independent of Halladay. Yet even that would be remote. There is no chance the Sox trade for Vernon Wells. He might have the worst contract in MLB right now. 10:$21M, 11:$23M, 12:$21M, 13:$21M, 14:$21M This contract would cripple many small-market franchises. In fact, not one team in baseball would take that contract off their hands without significant money coming back. In this economical environment, he’d probably get somewhere between $7 and $10 million a season for 2 to 3 years. The Blue Jays would have to give the acquiring team at least $30 million (and probably more) for even the Yankees to take him. Even then, the Blue Jays would get nothing in return unless they ate a much higher portion of the contract. As for Rios, he signed his contract extension right after his big offensive season. $12 million a year isn’t terrible, but definitely not worth it in this market. IMO, the Sox won’t want to trade any talent for him, when they could possibly sign Matt Holliday as free agent for the same financial commitment.

QUOTE (Thunderbolt @ Jul 8, 2009 -> 04:52 PM) Brandon Allen was #99 0n Baseball Prospectus' Top 100. http://www.baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=8506 John Sickels had him in his top 100 picture, he also had him ranked 4th amongst our prospects http://www.minorleagueball.com/2008/12/22/...te-sox-top-20-p http://www.minorleagueball.com/2008/9/17/6...rospect-brandon Prospect Rankings* 2009 - #4 ranked for CHW http://www.baseballamerica.com/today/prosp...009/267205.html *According to Baseball America Brandon Allen was more then relevant to any prospect buff. Be more constructive with your feedback, please. Thank you for pointing these rankings out. It's clear that he’s a respected prospect in the minor league baseball community (and not just Soxtalk). The guy is a young, left-handed hitter with outstanding physical tools. Last season his power increased, even though he played in a notorious pitchers park, and his plate discipline greatly improved. The kid looked like he might have taken a huge step forward. He appeared to have the ceiling of a slightly, above average first baseman. There is a ton of value in a player of that caliber. Yes, he has been somewhat of a disappointment this year (from a power perspective), but he is still only 23 years old. His plate discipline at AA was actually better this season and shouldn’t be ignored. He may never put it all together, but it’s still way too early to write him off. And to be honest, I don't recall anyone on this board saying Brandon Allen was the next Ryan Howard. I like some people really liked his long-term potential and improvement at the plate last season. Perhaps he’s slightly overrated, but not to the degree this website is claiming. As for the trade, I have no problem acquiring Pena and don’t hate using Allen to get him. I don’t like losing a potential left-handed power bat, but I trust that Kenny has another plan in mind to eventually replace Thome’s bat. One thing I don’t agree with is that we have a glut of first basemen waiting in the wings. We need Flowers to stay at catcher for obvious reasons. I love Dayan’s raw talent, but it’s way too early to pencil him in anywhere, especially first base. Phegley was just drafted, but for some reason everyone here has him on their three year board. Hell, the guy might never make out of A ball, let’s wait a while longer before judging him. Last, Fields is NOT a solution at first base. The guy couldn’t stick at third, why would we count on him at an even more offensive-minded position. If Paulie can keep this up, then this whole point is moot. I’ll be happy to keep him around for another couple of seasons. I still think the Sox should target a slugger (left-handed preferably) in the early rounds of next year’s draft.

This thread is ridiculous. Here is what Kenny said: "We expected a little more fan support than we have gotten. It's a reflection of the economy. And I don't know if we've played consistent enough or been exciting enough for people to get behind us yet." So first he states attendance is down because of the economy, which is a true statement. Then he points out that the team has had it's share of struggles and implies that less fans have showed up for that reason, which is also true. Where does he does he call Sox fans cheap? I don't see the insult. Oh yeah and he said this: "We had been a little aggressive in our projections initially, and we might have to take a lot closer look at it because the Dodgers series certainly was an eye-opener for us." Now he admits they overestimated demand and/or priced tickets too highly. He admits the Dodgers series was an "eye-opener" for his staff, which it should have been. I'm not going to argue that raising ticket prices 11% and cutting payroll by $20 million makes a lot of sense. They obviously had their reasons for it, whether wrong or right. However, no one should fault Kenny or the White Sox for admitting they can't spend big dollars on a trade when revenues from attendance have been so low. The Sox are probably already several million in the red. It's unfair and borderline crazy to expect they to go even further in that direction without seeing some sort increase in fan support first.