Chicago White Sox

QUOTE (justBLAZE @ Jul 30, 2010 -> 06:03 PM) Yankees got Astros to send money back and won't be sending any good prospects. Berkman could have been had for NOTHING. Kenny better be working on something BIG. Olney: Heard this: The Astros are picking up a lot of the money owed to Lance Berkman in their agreement with the Yankees, and the NYY#trades Yankees won't be giving up any major prospects. That's really too bad...I would have loved Berkman on the cheap. Like you said, we just got to hope KW is working on something big. I just hope he can find a way to get us a nice bat without giving up Viciedo.

QUOTE (Thunderbolt @ Jul 30, 2010 -> 05:15 PM) Did Cowley just say that Ozzie once wrote up a lineup with Pierre hitting 4th? I wouldn't be suprised at all. I believe Ozzie said something along the lines that if he was GM he'd have Pierre batting 4th (implying his lineup would be a bunch of scrappy/slappy hitters).

QUOTE (BearSox @ Jul 30, 2010 -> 04:38 PM) Balta pretty much summed it up. Even if you do trade him, then you still need to sign a 5th starter. And who's to say that Freddy won't sign a cheap deal with us next year? We all know how close he is with Ozzie and how much he enjoys playing here.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jul 30, 2010 -> 04:32 PM) Then we've got a choice if somehow we dump Jackson's contract. Either we go and find Bartolo Colon and see if he'll sign for another $500k next offseason, or we take Jackson's $8 million and spend it on another overpaid FA pitcher somewhere. Unless we've got a method to catch Freddy Garcia-like lightning in a bottle next year, or we're totally insane and we're going to dump Sale into the fryer immediately next year, we're going to need another starting pitcher if we somehow became the 4th team to give up on Jackson in 2 years, and we're absolutely not going to get an MLB-ready minor league arm for him. I think that's quite the stretch considering he hasn't thrown a single pitch for us. Let's give him a chance to pitch before we declare that his value will significantly decline between now and the offseason.

QUOTE (bigruss22 @ Jul 30, 2010 -> 03:41 PM) So what happens when the Sox cant afford to keep some combination of AJ, Paulie, Putz, Jenks, etc because they are paying a mediocre-bad starter in EJax? Then all of a sudden they have holes they cant fill, and were back to middling. First off, I think it's difficult to speculate exactly what our payroll will be next year. We can use this year's payroll as a rough estimate, but a lot of factors could change the actual figure. If KW is trading away a cheap, controllable player in Hudson, it might be a reasonable indication that the financial situation next season may not be as bleak as some people think. As for your comment about Jackson, why can't we just deal him in the offseason if we're desperate for salary relief? There's no way that he was worth Hudson/Holmberg now but will be worth nothing once the season ends. We'll get something of value back for him. Personally, I think this trade helps us this year (to what extent I don't know), but I'll admit it's an extremely risky move. Giving away the cost certainty that Hudson provides could easily hurt us in the long-run and possibly as early as next season. If KW holds on to Jackson, then he better go ahead a get a DH as well, because he'd be betting a playoff run this season.

QUOTE (Athomeboy_2000 @ Jul 30, 2010 -> 01:23 PM) @TBrownYahoo - Source: White Sox hope to acquire Dunn without trading Jackson, but Nats desire Jackson. Well that would imply a Viciedo + Santos and/or prospect(s). I just don't see how the Nationals would trade us Dunn without getting Viciedo or Hudson as the centerpiece.

QUOTE (WCSox @ Jul 30, 2010 -> 01:20 PM) This trade suggests two things: (1) The Sox weren't nearly as high on Hudson as they'd led us to believe (or believe that his mechanics make him injury-prone). (2) Kenny subscribes to the school of thought that making a deal at the deadline (even if it doesn't really help the team much) has a positive psychological impact on the team. (I imagine that the Griffey trade of two years ago would fall into this category as well.) I think the trade really suggests the Sox believe Sale will be ready much sooner than most expect.

QUOTE (chw42 @ Jul 30, 2010 -> 12:16 PM) There is no benefit. If you lose the game today because you had to throw Lucas Harrel out there, then Jackson's value to this team the rest of the way decreases even more. Jackson projects to be a guy who can give you 1.5 wins from here on out, nothing awesome. No offense to you in particular, but I find it pretty absurd people throw projections around like they are guaranteed to happen. We are talking about a guy getting to traded to a new team in a new league that plays in a different park with different defenders and has a different pitching coach. There are so many variables at play here that projections are meaningless at this time IMO. I have no doubt that giving up Hudson and Holmberg is an overpay, but that's what happens when you acquire starting pitching at the deadline. I don't see how anyone could think this move makes us worse THIS SEASON. At worst, he should be slightly better than Hudson this year simply because he can eat innings. Furthermore, the guy has the skillset to be dominant postseason starter. I'm not saying he will, but if he can get hot by the end of the year, this team is much more dangerous playoff team with him as our #4 starter than Garcia or Hudson.

QUOTE (fathom @ Jul 30, 2010 -> 10:58 AM) Yep, if it's just Hudson and another prospect for Jackson, and then nothing else happens...that would be just a horrible deal. I agree completely. The only way you make this trade is if you decide to go all in this year and believe Jackson can really booster your playoff rotation. That means getting a legit DH as well (someone like Berkman would do). Trading away cheap, controllable players is extremely risky given how terrible our minor league system is and how our financials look for 2011. However, I could see KW looking at the potential upside of a deep playoff run (additional revenue / better attendance in 2011) and deciding to roll the dice.

If this Jackson-Hudson deal actually goes through, we better still get a bat. I'll be pissed as f***ing hell if Kotsay is still our DH come Sunday.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Jul 29, 2010 -> 12:31 PM) If Ted Lilly helps them win a World Series, they'd be pissed as hell. Probably the same thing for the Sox. More importantly, a deep playoff run would provide the Cardinals with more revenue that could be used to improve their 2011 team. Unless the Cubs don't plan on competing in 2011, there's a potential downside to helping the Cardinals now.

QUOTE (whitesoxbrian @ Jul 27, 2010 -> 11:05 PM) SportingNews Don't know if you all saw this. If they want Hudson and Flowers for Dunn, fine with me. If one of Flowers/Morel/Danks had to be included, then I'd make sure it wasn't Flowers. I know he's really struggling right now, but I still think he's got the most upside of the three and provides us with an option at catcher for next year if need be. As for Danks/Morel, I'm not sure who I'd rather include in the trade. You'd be selling high on Morel and selling low on Danks. On the otherhand, Morel might be able to contribute in some capacity next season, while Danks doesn't even look close to being a major leaguer at this point. IMO, Danks has the higher upside, but he's unlikely to ever become more than a reserve outfielder if he can't significantly cut down on those strikeouts.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jul 27, 2010 -> 10:27 PM) If the Cubs ate half Zambrano's contract, would you trade Linebrink and Teahen for him? If they'd take on the rest of Linebrink and Teahen's contracts on top of half of Zambrano's then I'd say yes. Otherwise, I don't think it would be worth the risk.

QUOTE (hitlesswonder @ Jul 27, 2010 -> 10:28 PM) Viciedo had two disappointing years in the minors and has shown no ability to draw walks. Smoak kicked ass at every level he played at...he's considered a better prospect than Beckham. Unfortunately I don't think Viciedo has 1/3 the value Smoak has. Are you f***ing serious? He put up an .855 OPS in AAA as a 21 year old this year. His OPS also includes a bad April to start the season. What qualifies that as a disappointing year? Simply a lack of walks? It's not like he strikes out a ton.

QUOTE (justBLAZE @ Jul 27, 2010 -> 08:46 AM) Does anyone else think Kenny makes/doesn't make a move based on moves made/lack of by Tigers/Twins ? I think KW is looking to make a move that will make us stronger in the playoffs (and by default the regular season). I just can't believe he'd be willing to roll the dice against the Yankees or Rays with Mark Kotsay's .657 OPS in the five whole. We are one left-handed power bat away from having a pretty nice lineup. I honestly feel that KW will try everything in his power to get that bat.

QUOTE (Kalapse @ Jul 21, 2010 -> 03:38 PM) We can give him a maximum pay reduction of 20% of his 2012 salary so we'd have to pay him at the very least $2M that year but I believe we are under no real obligation to pay him any more than that (like any other pre-arb player). If he's a good major league player by that time I'm sure they'd give him a little more than they absolutely must. I never knew that...thanks for the info!

QUOTE (Kalapse @ Jul 21, 2010 -> 03:04 PM) He'll still be pre-arb in 2013. He's not going to earn an entire year of service this season. '11: $1.25M '12: $2.5M '13: pre arb '14: arb '15: arb '16: arb So what happens in that pre-arb year? Can we give him any contract we see fit?

QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Jul 21, 2010 -> 11:09 AM) Ok to be specific, he recieved a 4M signing bonus and is owed 1.25M this year and 1.25M next year and than receives 2.5M in 2012. After that he will be arb eligible for 3 seasons. So basically we got him cheap for 2 more years after this and than 3 full years of arbitration. And no need to ever check Cotts for Sox info, Kalapse's spreadsheet pinned on PHT is the best resource out there, imo. Is this season even going to count as a full year of service time? If I'm not mistaken, I think we should have him under team control for another six years after this season.

QUOTE (chw42 @ Jul 21, 2010 -> 09:42 AM) I'd do Putz + prospects not named Dan Hudson for Werth. As nice as Werth would be, I don't think trading our best reliever makes sense.

QUOTE (Quinarvy @ Jul 20, 2010 -> 12:30 PM) If it's where one team is in the race, Cliff Lee to Rangers If it's when both are in the race...I don't know. Yeah, I'm only talking about when both teams are in the race. Why would a GM make the team he is competing with for a playoff spot potentially better?

QUOTE (iamshack @ Jul 20, 2010 -> 09:43 AM) I don't think anyone considers Teahen to be this big of an X-factor, to be honest. It's not like trading Alex Gordon to the Tigers. Secondly, as far as I understand, Teahen is going to be out several more weeks still. The Tigers, if they're going to go outside the organization for a 3b, would most likely do so sooner rather than later, as Inge is only going to miss 4-6 weeks. I'm not saying Teahen would be an X-factor, but if we traded him to the Tigers and he was productive it could help them win the division. I'm honestly shocked anyone thinks that KW would be willing to make this trade. When is the last time two divisional opponents made a trade with each other in the middle of a playoff chase?

I don't think so. If Teahen were productive and the Tigers won the division, KW would have essentially written his own death sentence as our GM.

QUOTE (beck72 @ Jul 20, 2010 -> 07:43 AM) I could see both Flowers and Dayan go. The Sox will likely re-sign AJ. He's a perfect match for our pitching staff. I just don't see Dayan as a fit going forward, though. The sox don't want to have a below avg. fielder playing a key position, either 3b or 1b. The sox have options at 3b, with Teahen and Morel for 2011. 1b isn't a spot to hide Dayan either. Seeing how many E's PK has saved this year and made all the plays hit at him, a guy has to be able to be solid at 1b. I like Dayan as a DH. Dayan may be a slugger. Yet he's got serious holes in his swing and approach. Teams will learn how to make him chase balls and he will get himself out. Yet with Dunn, the sox can turn those 2 picks into some nice players. The scouting dept. has turned it around, and I have faith that those picks and Dunn's bat for this year, can be better than what Dayan, Flowers, etc could do. So the Sox don't want a below average fielder in Dayan playing 3B, but they'll let Teahen play there? I'm sorry but that makes no sense. Also, Dayan started playing 1B on a regular basis this year, so let's give him a little more time there before we call him a future DH. As for the "serious holes in his swing and approach", the kid is 21 years old and already has made the big leagues. You want to write him off already? The kid has massive potential and will only get better with time. This draft pick s*** is nonsense. I don't care how much better our scouting department has been as of late, you can't tell me that they'll turn these two picks into players of equal value to Dayan and Flowers. Nothing is guaranteed in the draft and even the best picks can get side-tracked and quickly lose value. Look at our top three picks from 2009 draft if you need an example.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jul 19, 2010 -> 01:22 PM) BMac got run out of the clubhouse for associating with Anderson pretty quickly. For some reason, Jon Rauch came to mind when I saw that. Wasn't he was traded just days after he stormed out of the clubhouse during the middle of a game? While it was a terrible thing for a rookie to do, I find it a bid odd they'd be so quick to get rid of him considering how highly-regarded he was at the time. I feel like he may of had some attitude problems.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Jul 15, 2010 -> 01:04 PM) This is essentially my point, but to a lesser degree. The Sox top 4 starters are very solid...Danks and Floyd are clearly the top 2, and Buehrle and Garcia are clearly the next 2. By acquiring Oswalt, you are adding another dynamite starter - that much is clear. But is the upgrade from a 4.50 ERA (a hypothetical Hudson ERA) to a 3.25 ERA (for Oswalt) going to be worth more than the upgrade from the Sox current DHs (.233/.305/.425/.729) to a player who can put up .270/.350/.500/.850? Is it also going to be worth it to spend $58.5 mill (give or take a million or so) on the rotation next year when the payroll is going to be $100 mill at the most, or would it be better to acquire a rental player such as LaRoche or Dunn (with Dunn also netting compensatory picks...I believe LaRoche would be a Type A too, but the Sox wouldn't offer arbitration because his 2011 option jumps to $9.5 mill if he's traded, so the Sox would just buy it out and let him go) and have no financial strings attached going into next offseason? To me, this is an absolute no brainer. I agree completely with the financial considerations you speak of. However, I think the question of whether a bat or pitcher is more valuable isn't so simple. I feel that sticking with Hudson as our #5 and getting a legit bat helps us more during the regular season, but I think getting a pitcher like Oswalt would be much more valuable than a improved DH come playoff time. Therefore, I think the question becomes do you roll the dice with an extra starting pitcher and hope you have enough offense to win the division? I personally hate the thought of Mark Kotsay getting another start at DH, but I feel like KW is willing to sacrafice some offense for a potentially dominating rotation come playoff time.