Chicago White Sox

QUOTE (League @ Nov 24, 2009 -> 08:43 PM) Needs more green, please. I'm afraid he might be serious.

QUOTE (balfanman @ Nov 24, 2009 -> 11:08 AM) That's kind of the point, financial savings. This is to be able to sign a free agent hitter. This was discussed in the Adrian Gonzales thread I believe. I don't see how you would get financial savings by trading for Matthews. He makes more than $10 million per the next two seasons. The Angels would have to give the Sox $8 million just to make the trade an even swap in terms of money. Do you really see them contributing much more than that and giving us a good prospect to make the trade worth our while? I just don't see it.

QUOTE (balfanman @ Nov 24, 2009 -> 08:01 AM) If (IF) K. W. somehow manages to land Adrian Gonzales I would not be upset at all if some version of the Konerko to the Angels for Gary Matthews trade happened. I think that somehow Gary Matthews would not be all that bad at the Cell. His power numbers would probably increase at least a little and at the very worst would provide plus defense for our pitching staff. At that point we could always go to a Thome / Dye / etc. type to D. H. JMHO Wow, this an awful idea. Paul Konerko, while overpaid for his position, is still a valuable offensive player. Even if we were to land Gonzalez, we need some hitters in the lineup who can drive in runs behind him. Unless you are moving Konerko for financial savings so you can sign such a player, you might as well just hold on to him for one more season. Taking on an even worse contract for one of the worst everyday players in baseball is crazy. Even if you are desperate for outfield defense in LF/RF, I'm sure you find just as good of an option who will cost you practically nothing. Hell, Jordan Danks would give you the defense and most likely a better bat (even as a rookie). I don't think you understand how bad Gary Matthews is.

QUOTE (Paint it Black @ Nov 21, 2009 -> 10:21 AM) The fit makes some sense, a left handed DH type I guess. Not really thrilled if it happens, but whatever. The fit makes perfect sense. We need a left-handed power bat at one of two spots (DH/OF). He should put up a .280/.365/.480 line. IMO, he'd be a fantastic addition as our DH if signed to a reasonable 2 year contract. Why wouldn't you be thrilled? Who would your prefer?

QUOTE (greg775 @ Nov 20, 2009 -> 10:17 PM) Here's an interesting question: Would we have been better off not acquiring Teahen and signing Omar? Then we'd have Gordon at third, Omar at short, Lexi at second and Paulie at first. After a year of Omar, we then the following year acquire another OC or Omar-type ss. Wouldn't it have been smarter than acquiring Teahen to start at third?? Thus moving Beckham to second and keeping Lexi at ss? Then we'd have Getz and Fields to trade to somebody else for a middle relief candidate or whatever. I am one fan who would rather have a new veteran ss if it means keeping Gordon at third and moving Lexi back to second. No.

QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Nov 20, 2009 -> 12:26 PM) Shelby isn't going to get picked in the Rule V draft. He still has too much to work on, imo. Agreed, having him sit on a bench for a year would stunt his development. He's a raw position-playing prospect who turns 25 next season. What team is really going to waste a spot on their bench for a year, only to have to send him down to the minors for another season or two afterwards. If he were younger or more polished, then maybe it would make sense. Right now, I don't see it being worth it to any club.

QUOTE (Kalapse @ Nov 20, 2009 -> 02:07 PM) I don't think he'd clear waivers. Yeah, you got to think some team desperate at 2B would take a chance on him just for his defense and power.

QUOTE (Saufley @ Nov 20, 2009 -> 02:02 PM) Getz is in KC. Remember the Teahan trade? Yeah, I know this. Read what I quoted (see the bolded part). I'm asking had we kept Getz, where would he (and Nix) fit into the picture long-term. With Ramirez and Beckham locked in at SS and 2B, I would see Getz (if he were still around) and Nix as nothing more than bench players for us.

QUOTE (WCSox @ Nov 20, 2009 -> 01:03 PM) Meh, I guess this sort of makes sense with Vizquel being a utility guy and a "fielding coach" to Alexei. As long as they don't pay him much over the league minimum. But, man, I just don't see the logic in dumping both Nix AND Getz this off-season and replacing them with "meh" players who aren't going to get any better. Nix and Getz both have nice skill sets (albeit very different ones), and I thought that one of them could've been a nice long-term option for us. Kenny *could* keep Nix as an extra bench guy, but I'm not sure that's going to happen if Flowers is in the mix. With Ramirez at SS and Beckham at 2B, where do you envision Nix and Getz fitting in long-term?

QUOTE (daa84 @ Nov 20, 2009 -> 12:35 PM) well at least we have a pinch bunter...though im relatively certain ozzie will try to play vizquel 3 times a week at least....while i don't agree with the strategy, at least if ozzie is going to be asking guys to bunt and hit and run etc...at least we have a guy who can actually do it, and not brent lillibridge Honestly, I see this move leading to more playing time for Teahen, Ramirez and Beckham, which I think will be critical to our team's success next year. Vizquel's strength is his defense, which means he shouldn't have to play as frequently to be valuable to us. His situational hitting is a plus and anything he provides in the clubhouse is just an added bonus. I don't think this automatically means the end of Nix, but I do think it keeps Lillibridge off the roster. That alone makes this is a great move, since Lillibridge is far worse with the bat than Vizquel is even at 43.

Interesting that Santeliz is a three star prospect while Jones is in the "four more" group. Does anyone have any ideas for the disparity?

QUOTE (elrockinMT @ Nov 18, 2009 -> 06:13 PM) Not if you look at the big picture. Floewers is not needed at DH as we have other possible options who are better suited for that job. Flowers needs to learn to catch and step in when AJ is gone and you don't do that in the DH spot Who are these other options? Mark Kotsay would be terrible and I can't even think of another player you could possibly be referring to. Right now, Flowers is the best in-house candidate for the job. Hopefully KW will sign a better hitter to be our DH, but if not, I don't see how you go with anyone other than Flowers.

QUOTE (beck72 @ Nov 16, 2009 -> 04:59 PM) My thoughts exactly. This move of PK's salary would allow the sox to still fill other holes. The angels also could use PK to replace Vlad, w/o being stuck for 3 yrs with a DH. I love the idea of moving PK's salary. He essentially has no value on the trade market. I could see a team desperate for a right-handed DH or 1B willing to take his contract off our hands. However, I'd have to assume they either have a top prospect who will be ready in 2011 or else there is a free agent they plan on targeting after the 2010 season. Otherwise, I don't see why a team wouldn't at least explore other options first. Obviously the financial flexibility would key to the White Sox as many people have mentioned. If the proposed deal went through, we'd still have holes at DH and LF/RF. What kind of free agents could the Sox target to fill these two holes? I'd be interested in hearing people's ideas.

QUOTE (Quinarvy @ Nov 11, 2009 -> 10:34 PM) If we could, I'd ask for Poreda back (See: Gonzalez, Gio) to help with the lefty situation in the pen. Plus, then we'd have: Poreda Hynick D2 Phegley While the farm would take a huge blow, those four could help it recover. Hynick??? Counting on him for anything but garbage innnings in the majors would be crazy at this point.

QUOTE (Thunderbolt @ Nov 11, 2009 -> 08:06 AM) Guys, if we could land A Gone for Hudson, Retherford, Morel, Shelby, Ely, Torres and Hynick, i'd say shiny and go about our merry, but Danks, Viciedo, Flowers, and Hudson? A-Gone is a special player, but i don't really know how i feel about desecrating our farm system for him. I'm conflicted. A-Gone is the player that you do that for, but still.... i think i'm just too attached to some of the minor league kids. Yeah, there has to be a limit on what you offer for the trade to even make sense from our perspective. If I were KW, I wouldn't offer more than Hudson, Retherford, Morel and one of Viciedo, Danks and Flowers. That's 4 of our top 6 prospects. That's fairly similar to what the Braves gave up for Teixeira a few years back (I know it's not the exact same situation). Even if you think some of these guys will be worthless in a few years, they still can bring you back a lot of nice pieces right now. Honestly, if the Padres turned down that package, which of the following would you rather do. Use the cash saved by not making the trade and sign Andy LaRoche to be your DH and then trade the same package for a cheap, young, stud RF. In this scenario, you'd still have two of Danks, Viciedo and Flowers left. The other option is trading your top 6 prospects for Gonzalez and having nothing of value to trade in the future, while hindering your ability to plug holes cheaply. IMO, trading the entire farm system, even for a player as good as Gonzalez, is completely irrational.

QUOTE (jphat007 @ Nov 6, 2009 -> 04:30 PM) Yah thats way too much, but I'm scared to death to be losing 2 of our better offensive players from last year off of an atrocious offense. KW better have some real nice tricks up his sleeve. Pods was solid last year but you can't expect that same production again. Honestly, Pods asking for $7.5 million is the best news of the day. I was worried sick that KW was going to sign to some sort of 2 year deal. Now, let's spend a little money and get a better, more complete outfielder.

QUOTE (beck72 @ Nov 6, 2009 -> 04:04 PM) A few things struck me reading that article. 1] Jordan Danks may be closer than most people think. But he still shouldn't be counted on for the top of the order. If he comes to Chi. in 2010, it will be to hit near the bottom of the order. Thus, the sox need to acquire a leadoff hitter, as they don't have one in the system. 2] Getting a guy like Orlando Hudson makes a lot of sense to play 2b and hit leadoff. I don't buy into the sox moving Beckham to 2b and learning another new position. Gordon's bat is going to be critical to the sox success on offense. 3] If Teahan is better at 3b than Gordon, then I could see Gordon moving back to his natural spot at SS. 4] Gordon at SS means Alexei could be dealt. Alexei could then bring back a key bat and pitching help. IMO, the next big move is Alexei being dealt. That would pave the way for Gordon to move to SS. Then the sox could sign Hudson or less likely, Figgins. The sox would have to move a salary like Konerko's for them to afford Figgins. I'll never understand your desire to get rid of Alexei. Simply put, he's worth so much more than he's making that you'd have to get a ton back in a trade to move him. I don't see anyone, including the Red Sox, paying the price KW would be looking for. Also, I think 2B is where Beckham belongs. IMO, that's where he's best suited to play and offers the best value to the club. Moving Konerko would be great, but why would anyone want him at $12 million? Yes, he had a solid season but there are so many 1B/DH type players on the market that he seems somewhat untradeable without giving some cash or taking back some contract (not necessarily bad) back. Finally, while I think Danks has a great future ahead of himself, I don't think you can start the season with him in your lineup. We already have enough question marks throughout the lineup. If some things do go wrong, you don't want Danks struggling in the #9 spot to add fuel to the fire.

QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Nov 6, 2009 -> 03:30 PM) What do you think of LaRoche? I definitely think he's a guy who could be available for cheap near the end of the offseason who has some nice upside. He should give you at least 20 homeruns, 35 doubles and a solid AVG/OBP. The fact that he's a lefty is huge, since it allows you to get the best OF possible for the other spot. Also, being able to play 1B would protect us in case of a Konerko injury. One other thing I like about him is how he played for ATL down the stretch. He's another guy like Teahen who might thrive in a competitive environment. How much do you think he'll get on the open market?

QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Nov 6, 2009 -> 03:04 PM) I'm telling you guys, the Sox brass loves Danks. He's a phenomenal athlete and a tremendous defensive player. Offensively he has flaws to his game, but quite a bit of overall upside. I think it might be a bit early, but the Sox could do far worse than going with Danks. The problem is if you get Danks, you need to get a pretty big time bat as your DH, imo. I don't think that Danks is ready yet offensively and needs at least half a season in AA/AAA. IMO, the Sox need to sign a legit RF to fill one of the holes in the lineup and then sign a cheap, high-upside guy for the DH spot towards the end of the offseason. If the second guy doesn't work out, Danks might be ready for a mid-summer call-up. Then you shift Carlos to DH and hopefully would have spectacular defense at all 3 spots. I just don't think counting on Danks at the beginning of the season makes sense.

Just some general thoughts on the trade: 1) All this talk about Teahen being a UT player for us is crazy. He's going to be in LF/RF and/or possibly part of a rotating DH. KW made the move to add flexibility to his offseason plans, not to improve the bench while adding another hole to the starting lineup. 2) While I'm not a huge fan of Teahen, I think his left-handed bat and ability to play several spots will make him useful to our club. Ideally he'd be a great 10th option for a team like the Yankees, but I think he can be a solid #8 or #9 on a championship team if all the other pieces are right. I also think a change of scenery might do him well. Maybe it doesn't matter, but I have to think playing for a losing team like the Royals for several years would have an effect on his performance. A negative work environment can impact anyone's job performance. 3) While I think Getz will become a solid player, I'm not going to lose sleep over him. In fact, I'm glad that we'll be upgrading at 2B this season. I think this player will come from free agency. For some reason, this trade really makes me think that KW is going to attempt a serious run at Figgins (with Beckham shifting to 2B). I believe the Sox are going to sign one big name free agent and filling a corner OF spot relatively cheaply allows this type of move. I do think the backup move is going after Hudson. Either way, opening up an IF hole allows us to get a legit leadoff hitter. Apparently, KW didn't Getz could be that guy in the long-run or just is too impatient to wait. 4) I'd be interested in hearing the organization's long-term plans with 2B/3B. We got several interesting prospects in Retherford, Viceido and Morel to fill one of these spots eventually. Wherever Beckham plays this year should be a sign of which spot may be open in the future. However, a Figgins signing would fill this hole long-term and allow us to move Retherford and Morel to fill other needs. I don't see Viceido going anywhere. Worst case scenario, he's your future 1B or DH. Should be interesting to see what happens with these guys in the future.

QUOTE (Chet Kincaid @ Oct 29, 2009 -> 08:45 AM) This is an excellent debate. Would you rather wait for Getz to develop, or would you rather sign an aging vet like Polanco? I'm torn... Unfortunately, I don't think you even have the choice. IMO, the Sox need to use their financial resources to fill an OF spot, find a DH, and hopefully bring in a 2nd lefty. I just don't see us having the money to upgrade 2B, especially when we have three cheap options in Getz, Nix and Retherford. Having said that, I can see the value of bringing in a veteran as a stopgap at 2B. However, I think the Sox would have to be pretty sure that Retherford will be the 2B of the future. Otherwise, you have to give Getz the starting spot for development sake.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Oct 21, 2009 -> 11:31 PM) No. I mean there are 3 pieces there that I have penciled into my lineup for practically nothing and I don't know that we can afford to move those with the current condition of our system. If we move all those pieces, there is not really another wave of cheap, talented players in our system coming anytime soon. Agreed. I don't get why people are so eager to trade the farm or a cheap, young, productive player like Alexei. We will need some cost-certainty in the future if we want to keep guys like Floyd, Danks and Quentin long-term. Plus, you're only getting Gonzalez for two years. The chance of resigning him would be near impossible. Also, you're trading your starting shortstop, a setup man, and a possible backup catcher. They will make rougly $2 million next season. We already have limited funds to fill several needs for 2010 and making this trade would increase payroll and create more holes. You'd really have to roll the dice on cheap, less-talented players filling some of these holes. I don't see it working out.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Oct 19, 2009 -> 11:53 PM) It's basically just reading between the lines, using past history as a guide, the personalities of our FO as well as the attendance this year, etc...it doesn't take a rocket scientist... Not that I'm trying to doubt you, but I guess I'll wait and see what happens. I just think it's too difficult right now to predict next season's payroll using past history. The club lowered payroll last year in preparation of the economic crisis. If they think the economy will be better next year, at least for baseball, maybe they will put more money back into the team. On the other hand, I know that the contracts of several big advertisers were up after this season. Honestly, I could see the payroll heading in either direction. I think it's a bit premature to automatically assume payroll will remain static or go down. Not that I'm expecting any significant changes.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Oct 19, 2009 -> 09:02 PM) Are people willing to offer than and realize you have to trade at least one big contract to get that, and oh yeah, he might be playing the field? Can I ask how you know we'd have to trade a big contract in order to add one? I really don't have too much insight about the Sox's projected payroll for 2010. I just keep reading people's posts saying we're pretty much maxed out. I'm curious if people have heard something I haven't.

QUOTE (qwerty @ Oct 11, 2009 -> 12:54 AM) I am not the biggest believer that a certain position requires a certain amount of production... but... You simply do not dh a hitter as poor as podsednik or any player of his ilk for any signifigant amount of plate appearances. And this is the problem with Podsednik. He's just been too inconsistent offensively in his career to be relied on to be our DH. If I thought he could match his 2009 numbers in terms of OBP and SLG, while improving his baserunning a little bit, then I'd take him back in a heartbeat at a $5 million / 1 year deal to be our DH. Unfortunately, I see his AVG falling back in line with his career norms which woudl cripple any value he might have. Plus you know Ozzie would keep penciling him in the lineup day-in-day-out. I just don't see how Podsednik being our DH will work out again. Let's be happy he filled in nicely this year and move on to greener pastures.