Chicago White Sox

QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ Apr 11, 2011 -> 01:49 PM) Sox's lineup: Pierre lf Beckham 2b Rios CF PK 1b Quentin dh Ramirez ss Morel 3b Castro c Lillibridge rf How I wish we had Milledge or Viciedo on this roster. I can't stand Lillibridge starting in a corner OF spot.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Apr 10, 2011 -> 05:36 PM) I'm guessing Jerry Owens, perhaps not as fast though. Don't think he's very strong or powerful, not an incredibly patient hitter, but he's OK and can draw a walk. I'd guess OK defensively. Probably a 4th outfielder if he ever makes it, not sure that he will though. Just to point it out, other franchises do this too. In fact, the Tigers have been more guilty of it, considering they are starting the son of front office man at catcher and the son of the manager is in the minor leagues. Avila was drafted in the 5th round, Leyland in the 8th. From what I've read, he's a raw speed/power type player, so I wouldn't compare him to Owens. He's just never made good contact, so his chance of making the pros is extremely unlikely. There's no doubt he's physically gifted though. He's also been unhealthy since we drafted him, which hasn't helped with his development. I have no problem giving him a chance as an everyday player, but AA seems too high for him right now.

QUOTE (flavum @ Apr 9, 2011 -> 10:52 AM) It's not b****ing. It's embarrassment. I think a AA leadoff hitter should be a prospect. Not minor league filler, which he is. I agee it's an embarassment. He shouldn't be in AA or a leadoff hitter, but that team isn't exactly overflowing with talent this year. We shouldn't hold it against the kid that nepotism played a role in his early selection and most likely his minor league advancement. He is what he is, a very fringe prospect. Having said that, I'd rather give him a chance than some 30 year career minor leaguer. As I said earlier, he has some physical tools. It's not like we're talking about Josh Shafer here.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Apr 9, 2011 -> 09:21 AM) FutureSox FutureSox.com Barons won 7-2. Williams 2-5, 2B, HR. Short 3-5, 2B, K. Phegley 1-5, HR, 3 K. Peavy 3.2 IP, 2 UER, 4 K, BB, 5 H. Zaleski 5.1 IP, 5 K, BB, 2H I love all the b****ing about this kid. Was he a huge reach? No doubt, but at least he's physically gifted. I have little faith that he'll ever sniff the pros, but our system is so weak we need to give kids like him a chance.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Apr 8, 2011 -> 03:48 PM) I wonder if he'd even have made the bigs if he was clean. I really hope this a joke. Did you ever see him when he first came up? He would have been a great hitter regardless, but steroids made him one of the best in the game.

QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Apr 8, 2011 -> 03:08 PM) Jackson for Hudson will be an economic fail no matter what happens. That's the key. All thing being equal and I'd be fine with the trade. If Jackson has a breakout year then he's looking at 5 years and at least $70-75 million. And then we've still got the two giant elephants in the room that is Danks and Buehrle to worry about. And a farm in which Wite would be the team's top pitching prospect. And hes's garbage. If Jackson has a breakout year, does he still have a chance of becoming a Type A free agent? If he were to become that and leave, we'd get 2 high picks and 1 1/3 years of Jackson in exchange for Hudson. Unless Hudson becomes a legit top of the rotation starter, I don't see how the trade is an economic loss. Sure, they don't help us in 2012, but those potential picks need to be considered before concluding which team received more value in the trade.

People need to look at Lillibridge's minor league numbers. He's a terrible offensive player period. He'll probably hit around .200 - .230 at the major league level. He doesn't provide plus defense at any position either. He only offers speed and versatility. The problem is with a four man bench, he'll sneak into the lineup far too often. He will start costing us games. In a sport where every regular season game matters, small moves like these add up and can make the difference between making the playoffs and not.

f***ing stupid decision. For all of you b****ing about Millidge's defense, just wait until you get watch Lillibridge start in LF/RF once or twice a week now. His lack of offense will make Mark Kotsay's time at DH pale in comparison. That's the problem with this move. He's now our primary right-handed hitting reserve and will sneak his way into the lineup way too often and will actually be used as a pinch hitter, even though he can't hit. I don't care what what anyone tells me, but if you use Lillibridge for anything more than a pinch runner, late game defensive replacement (due to his versatility), and a once in a great while backup SS/2B/CF, it's going to cost us games over the long-run and our team isn't strong enough to be throwing away games.

f***ing stupid decision. For all of you b****ing about Millidge's defense, just wait until you get watch Lillibridge start in LF/RF once or twice a week now. His lack of offense will make Mark Kotsay's time at DH pale in comparison. That's the problem with this move. He's now our primary right-handed hitting reserve and will sneak his way into the lineup way too often and will actually be used as a pinch hitter, even though he can't hit. I don't care what what anyone tells me, but if you use Lillibridge for anything more than a pinch runner, late game defensive replacement (due to his versatility), and a once in a great while backup SS/2B/CF, it's going to cost us games over the long-run and our team isn't strong enough to be throwing away games.

I'm sorry, but it's a complete joke that Lillibridge is starting today. We need all the offense we can get against Price and Millidge crushes lefties. I know Millidge had a bad game yesterday and has looked iffy in the OF so far, but let's give the guy a chance. He can be a valuable role player for us, Lillibridge not so much. Hopefully Lillibridge gets sent down when Peavy comes back, because I never want to see him starting in a corner OF spot again for the rest o my life.

QUOTE (Marty34 @ Mar 27, 2011 -> 12:39 PM) Too many question marks for a team with this payroll. after watching this spring, I'd rather have started the rebuilding than go 'all in" Particularly since so much of the Sox being World Series contenders is predicated upon a Cy Young type version of Peavy. Peavy returning throwing 85-90 won't cut it. This is one of the least logical posts I have ever seen on this site. What are all these question marks? #5 spot in the rotation? Sure, until Peavy is back. The bullpen? Yes, but so are most bullpens and we at least have some talent. What are the other ones? You could make an argument for 3B, but at least you'll get good defense from Morel. Quentin is a slight question mark, but we only need him to do a little bit better than last year. If you're so eager to start rebuilding, go become a Pirates fan. I'm sure their fans wouldn't mind swapping teams with you.

Why is Ozzie flip flopping Milledge and Lillibridge in the lineup? Millidge lead off last time they both started a game. This scares me quite a bit. I'm actually worried that Ozzie prefers that extra "versatility" from Lillibridge now that he feels like he has to go with a four man bench. I will be so f***ing pissed if Lillibridge somehow makes the team over Millidge.

QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Mar 25, 2011 -> 06:05 PM) Cordero will open the season as closer. But it's popular opinion that Chapman will take over the roll at some point. As Cordero is not really that good. And he's [Cordero] got a club option for 2012. So unless he's dynamite, the worst-case scenario for Chapman would be he's the full-time closer next year. But I still think that would be an overpay for what they signed him for if he doesn't start. I don't think it's an overpay if he can be a dominant closer, but I do think it's a stupid move to make him a closer unless you're all but certain he won't stay healthy as a starter.

QUOTE (YASNY @ Mar 23, 2011 -> 10:37 PM) Eh, I'm out of this discussion. Playing the race card was as bush league as the actions we have been discussing. Wow, I think your response was pretty "bush league". I made one post about an issue that clearly affects our society in numerous ways. I didn't realize it was absurd to suggest it might be affecting baseball too. I thought this was a message board where adults could talk about sensitive issues? If you didn't want to add to the debate, then why didn't you just ignore my post. I wasn't causing a stink or calling anyone out. There was no reason for a personal attack. Aren't you a mod? I would expect better from someone in your position.

QUOTE (whtsoxfan @ Mar 23, 2011 -> 05:59 PM) In my opinion, the White Sox have better options for utility: Deaza, also sent down, is a lefty, just like Teahen, but adds a speed dimension (base stealer, pinch runner) , better outfielder, and comparable hitting (better BA, similiar OBP, similiar RBIs). Jordan Danks, another lefty, had an impressive spring, as well. Teahen has a much stronger bat than De Aza IMO and makes a better insurance policy in the event of injury. If Dunn goes down, I'd much rather insert Teahen's bat into the lineup than De Aza's.

QUOTE (The Ginger Kid @ Mar 23, 2011 -> 06:00 PM) admission: i was excited about this pick. I remember following this draft and being so pissed that Daniel Bard got taken the pick before us. I wanted nothing to do with this guy from the start.

I hate to do this, but I think color plays a factor here. Now, I'm not accusing anyone here of this, but over time you happen to notice a pattern. When a young white player does these acts that have been referred to as showboating, people describe him as "passionate". When a young black player does them, he's called "cocky" or "arrogant" and accused of showboating. Would we really be having this same discussion if the player taking his helmet off after rounding third was Gordon Beckham? I seriously doubt it. Personally, I think people getting worked up over Milledge taking his helmet off is ridiculous. Why don't we want our players to have a little bit of style and attitude to them? It's not like he's trying to be an asshole and rub it in the pitcher's face. It's just something he does. If the pitcher wants to be overly sensitive and take exception to him, that's his choice. I just don't see why any fan would actually be bothered by this.

QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Mar 22, 2011 -> 05:37 PM) +1 billion. JR and Co. need to get off their damn high-horses when it comes to this stupid policy. You don't get to have a policy when you've got two starters about to become FAs, one who's agent you refuse to deal with, and your top pitching 'Spect is Addison Reed. KW has traded prospect after prospect after prospect over the last few years and the return has been one year of Nick Swisher, two months of a decrepit Ken Griffey Jr., Javy the sequel and Jake Prior. Instead of extending the Mark Teahen's of the world, handing out 3-4year deals to declining or mediocre relievers, overpaying for a 1B during his age 35-37 seasons because he gave you a world series baseball six years ago, spend some f***ing coin on some new scouts and the draft. Instead of signing Crain and Ohman, you would have used which minor leaguers in the bullpen? Instead of signing Konerko, you would have signed which free agent 1B? Or would you have simply used Viciedo? Also, please explain how the moves you're proposing make us better in 2011.

QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Mar 19, 2011 -> 04:24 PM) I agree with most of what you say here. An ideal farm is one that you can use as a source of talent infusion for the big league team AND be able to have enough left over to supplement that talent through trades to being in proven players wherever you're lacking. Also, KW played no role whatsoever in our #1 ranking going into 2001. He had only been the GM for a few months prior to that. The Royal are a special case. More than likely all of their top 10-15 guys won't pan out. But they appear to be so deep that if even 6-8 of them do they'll still be in pretty good shape. Elite/premium prospects is what everybody wants, especially me. But organizational depth is also important. We have none of either. From KW's bio on whitesox.com: I'm guessing he played a significant role in our #1 ranking. KW has always known talent. Unfortunately, I feel like politics and organizational philosophy affected our ability to build a strong farm system since he became GM. We will never truly know, but something didn't feel right about Duane Shaffer. Maybe KW influenced him to draft guys like Lance Broadway and Kyle McCulloch, but I seriously doubt it. I think Shaffer was a Reinsdorf guy and it was hard for KW to get rid of him. Clearly the draft strategy has completely changed to impact/high potential players since Shaffer was dismissed. Also, he's also had to deal with the stupid "won't go over slot slot cause we respect Bud Selig" policy for years now outside. While that may or may not affected him while he was the farm director, it's definitely had an impact this past decade. The other main thing that's screwed KW is the Dave Wilder fiasco. He destroyed our Latin America operations and we're still trying to recover. How can you build a strong farm system when you're handing major bonuses to marginal talents? I've got to be honest, I think that's been the biggest issue for us. At least with the draft, we've been able to get some mid round steals. What impact Latin players have we developed from start to finish since Magglio Ordonez and Carlos Lee? Unless I'm missing someone totally obvious, the closest thing we may have is Viciedo and I don't know if you can really count him. I honestly believe KW is capable of building a strong system from a talent evaluation standpoint, but his passion for trades will probably prevent it from ever becoming one of the best systems. And I'm completely fine with that. I couldn't stand how Ron Schueler refused to trade his young players for anything, even at the deadline when we clearly needed help. I think if KW is given a couple years, his new draft philosophy and the gradual improvement of our Latin operations will lead to a consistently stronger system. I don't know if it's being discussed or not, but a hard slotting system for the draft in the new CBA would only help our cause, because I doubt Reinsdorf will ever change his stance on going overslot otherwise.

QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Mar 19, 2011 -> 01:21 PM) I don't recall anybody ever pining for a #1 ranked farm. But the short-term and even long-term value that comes from being able to consistently produce from within is immeasurable. I'm not saying half the roster has to be homegrown. But they have to get better. A LOT better. The defense was always that none of the guys he traded ever amounted to anything. Well, you started to see some of those guys produce last year. And when the trade deadline came around and it was time to upgrade the pathetic DH situation, KW fell flat on his face. Fortunately, it doesn't appear that a MAJOR need will arise this season unless there's a significant injury. But I wouldn't count on KW being as active come trade time as he has been in the past. Can't really bargain when you have nothing to bargain with. No doubt the farm system has to improve. Outside of a handful of prospects, the system is pretty barren. KW has been playing a dangerous game for a while keeping it so thin. He's been forced to make a lot of risky trades to help offset this lack of talent and luckily he's been successful so far. Let's be honest, where would we be right now without the Danks and Floyd deals? The system just couldn't produce guys like that at the time. How often can you trade for arms with that kind of talent and then develop them into above average starting pitchers? At some point, if the system doesn't improve, deals like that won't work out or won't be available and the Sox will not have adequate backup options in our system. That's when we'll really be in trouble. Also, I just see a lot of people who are infatuated with a Royals type system. I see people say, "Watch out, the Royals are going to be really good in a couple of years". Really? Where's all the good young talent on their 25 man roster? Don't get me wrong, they have a lot of nice looking prospects, but those guys are still just prospects. Remember when the Sox had the #1 farm system in baseball? KW was the farm director at the time and put together an "impressive" group of prospects. Almost all of these guys turned out to be complete flops, got injured, or failed to meet expectations. There's no guarantee the Royals system will be any different. Best scenario for them, only some of their elite prospects turn out like Alex Gordon. Even in that case, how long will it take for those guys to develop into quality major league players? Due to the lack of talent on their roster, they got a long road ahead no matter what happens with these prospects.

QUOTE (SouthsideDon48 @ Mar 19, 2011 -> 11:20 AM) That really makes the Brandon Allen trade look a lot worse. The Diamondbacks had him play a few games at left field if I'm not mistaken. I've got to be honest, I hated that trade at the time and still do. I have no idea if Allen will ever make it in the majors, but he was our only left-handed power prospect and we had potential future holes at 1B & DH at the time. Now that we have Dunn and Konerko signed to long-term deals, it's not as big of a deal to me that he's gone. Regardless, trading him for a reliever like Tony Pena given our situation back then still makes no sense IMO.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Mar 19, 2011 -> 10:54 AM) And, there's always the possibility we take another "MLB ready" collegiate pitcher in the draft again... While that won't please the minor league followers, KW has never really cared about ranking our farm system #1. With that full emphasis on the major league club, we'll see how the lack of depth might hamstring him finally if it comes down to a full-scale rebuild. Here's hoping we never have to find out. And wondering if either KW or Ozzie will be around to patiently see it through. Doubtful. I think we're done taking Lance Broadway and Kyle McCulloch types. However, I do think the Sox will make pitching the focus of their next few drafts. If so, we're more likely to get another Dan Hudson who can move through the system quickly. Also, while I'd love having a #1 system, that's a secondary concern of mine. As long as KW can consistently add young talent to the 25 man roster and have enough in the system to provide some level of depth and acquire help when needed, we'll be in decent shape. I think evaluating an organization strictly by it's minor league system is pretty stupid. Look at the Sox, we have a terrible minor league system, yet have some really nice players on the major league team. Just cause those guys got promoted doesn't mean the organization is weak from a young talent perspective.

QUOTE (Quinarvy @ Mar 18, 2011 -> 12:54 PM) I can see the 2012 OF being Milledge-Rios-Viciedo at this rate. That's possible, but Dunn and A.J. would be the only lefties in our lineup then. That's going to be a serious concern for us in the long-run, because our entire core is right-handed outside of Dunn and we don't have many left-handed prospects in our system, especially ones who will be ready to take over a major league job anytime soon.

While I'd love to add a guy like this, I don't think the outfield is a major need spot for us. Sure, we'll need to replace Pierre after this season and most likely Quentin after 2012. However, Viciedo looks like he's ready for an everyday role right now and even Milledge looks like he could be more than just a backup (although it's way too early say that with any level of certainty). By 2013, Mitchell should be ready if he's ever going to be. If not, we can easily fill a corner OF spot in free agency for a year or two while we wait for another minor leaguer to take the spot (perhaps Thompson). If we have money to spend, put it towards pitching. We could really use a minor league arm that can push for a spot in our rotation in a year or two.

Our pitching depth will definitely be a huge concern entering 2012. If Jackson and Buehrle both leave we'll have two holes to fill in the rotation. Despite what some people think, I honestly believe Sale can be a solid #5 starter next year. That still would leave one spot to fill though and no internal candidates to fill it. If we're coming off a good 2011, then we can probably afford to fill that spot in free agency. If not, we'll probably be rebuilding anyways. The real question is how likely is it Jackson or Buerhle returns? If one of these guys returns, the depth will much less of an issue. If both guys return, we'll actually have a surplus of starting pitching options for 2012. Now, don't get me wrong, it's very unlikely both guys return. Buerhle obviously seems like the more likely option. However, I could see KW trying to lock up Jackson to an extension during the season. While it's very unlikely due to the Scott Boras factor, he seems like one of those guys who has moved around a lot and may want to stick in one spot for the foreseeable future. If that happens, then the entire situation changes. We'd have no holes in the rotation and the option of bringing Buerhle back. If you bring him back, you'd have the flexibility to trade a starter (Danks if he won't resign, Floyd otherwise) and add a couple of impact minor league arms. We'd actually be in great shape. More realistically, we resign Buerhle to a two year extension and we go with him, Peavy, Floyd, Danks, and Sale in 2012. We most likely lose Danks after the season and have a big hole to fill. The hope by then is that one of Reed, Petricka, Rienzo, etc. can make a Dan Hudson like run through the minors and take the spot. Not sure how likely that is. Regardless, even if we can fill out our rotation with solid pitchers in 2011 and 2012, we'll most likely have no prospects in AAA capable of taking over a spot (and performing well) in the event of an injury during this time span. That will remain a significant risk until it's addressed, but there is no guarantee it will ever affect us. However, with Peavy and Floyd in the rotation, I know I would be a little worried that someone will go down for a period of time. I can't wait to see how KW addresses this situation, because he's got a lot of work ahead of him. At least we're pretty set on the offensive side of the ball, with several young players that we should be able to count on for the next four to five years. That should make fixing the pitching situation a little bit easier for KW.