Chicago White Sox

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jul 28, 2011 -> 11:07 PM) BS. He can still trade Quentin and Thornton and Danks and Floyd in the offseason. And get much smaller returns, especially for Quentin. I honestly believe we can trade him and Thornton right now and still compete. If we trade a starter, we are definitely conceeding.

QUOTE (Real @ Jul 28, 2011 -> 12:33 PM) Forgive me for thinking Kenny screws this up and we end up with marginal talent I just don't see that happening. Quentin is one of the best hitters on the market at position that several contenders need. We are still technically in the playoff hunt ourselves and cutting salary in the Jackson/Teahen allows us to afford him the rest of the way if we choose. Teams will really have to entice us to move him. I think there will be less BS offers too, which will allow KW to really gauge Quentin's value. Therefore, if he decides to move him, I think we'll get a very nice return. The question will come down to which package he should accept. I just don't see how you can pass up on a Brown-centered deal. He and Viciedo would look great in LF and RF for the next six years. Having said that, I'd be happy to take some young pitching prospects from the Braves, although that's got a higher chance of busting.

For some reason, I think there's a decent chance a Quentin/Brown deal gets done. I'm sure other pieces would have to be involved, but the Sox are in a great spot with Quentin. Remember, any team that trades for him will likely get type A/B after the 2012 season, so those picks need to be factored into his price.

QUOTE (Paulie4Pres @ Jul 25, 2011 -> 10:42 PM) Why would you get rid of Quentin, even if you ARE rebuilding? I don't understand the logic. He's 28. He is one of the best hitters the Sox have. He seems to have bounced back pretty well from the injury issues. Trade away a known commodity, for unknown prospects that may or may not be as good as the guy they are trading away? Sounds pretty stupid to me. See what he's looking for as far as salary when the season is over, and go from there. At the very least, you bring up DV and see what he can do before trading away one of the very few power hitters the Sox have. If the salary he is going to command is an issue, get Rios the f*** out of here first and foremost. Trading CQ away will be just one more position the Sox need to fill next season. I just don't get it. OMG, for the last f***ing time we can't get rid of Rios right now. Why in god's name would any team want him at the moment? He sucks and makes a s***load of money! Plain and simple, we're stuck with him for the foreseeable future. Please no more "let's dump Rios" proposals, because he'd already be long gone if we could move him.

QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Jul 23, 2011 -> 05:31 PM) Jackson is a little over two months away from free agency. And he's league-average to begin with. Nobody is raping their farm for him. Except for the fact that pitching always costs a ton at the deadline and be may be the best pitcher on the market. I don't care if he's a league average pither, this is a supply and demand issue, and that's what will dictate his price. The fact that whoever trades for him also gets a supplemental pick will only help our cause. We should be able to get something of value for him. Not Hudson/Holmberg valuable, but perhaps a nice prospect that could help us in a year or two. Why do you think otherwise?

QUOTE (RockRaines @ Jul 22, 2011 -> 08:52 AM) Who has the minor league contacts to know when a player is coming up? I heard a rumor that this may actually be happening. Any idea on the corresponding roster move if this happens?

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jul 22, 2011 -> 11:48 AM) Kenny is in a holding pattern on the off chance they win their next 6. You really want us to sell huh?

QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Jul 21, 2011 -> 09:05 AM) So did D Lee last season for the exact same reasons(family). Then an actual playoff team came calling and magically D Lee left town. If the deal is right, ARam will agree to it. He doesnt want to go to Anaheim only to watch the Rangers run away with it Yeah, this is exactly right IMO.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jul 21, 2011 -> 08:19 AM) He's already repeatedly been reported to be uninterested in being traded. Weren't the same things said about Derek Lee? Sometimes when an actual trade is agreed upon, a player will change his tune about not wanting to leave. If I had to guess, Ramirez would be willing to play for us, because he wouldn't have to move his family until he found a long-term home in the off-season. Plus it would give him a chance to win and possibly improve his value in free agency. Obviously some guys are stubborn, but there are too many reasons not to accept a trade to us in this case.

QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ Jul 21, 2011 -> 07:25 AM) Do you really want to pay Aramis Ramirez $16 million next season? No thanks. Of course not, but I think he'd be willing to waive the option to come across town. Otherwise, I don't make the deal.

If we're throwing random ideas, why not the following moves: Quentin to Braves for Beachy Jackson to highest bidder for prospects, those prospects to Cubs for Ramirez Viciedo called up, Morel sent down New team: LF Pierre SS Ramirez 1B Konerko 3B Ramirez RF Viciedo C Pierzynski 2B Beckham DH Dunn CF Rios IF Vizquel OF Lillibridge UT Teahen C Flowers #1 Buerhle #2 Humber #3 Danks #4 Floyd #5 Beachy/Peavy CL Santos SU Thornton SU Crain RP Sale RP Peavy/Beachy RP Ohman RP Bruney Better offense and better bullpen. Rotation may or may not be better, but that's cause you're going from a six man to a five man rotation. Overall, I think these moves make us better this year and give another young starter to build around in the future.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jul 20, 2011 -> 07:54 PM) When Viciedo was eligible last year didn't he basically drop off the top 100 list? Yes, after his first season in professional baseball as a 20 year old in AA in a new country, he was dropped from the top 100 list for having a solid but unspectacular season. Then in 2010, he made huge strides, had a terrific season and lost his eligibility for top 100 prospect status. Now, as a 22 year old, he's destroying AAA and has shown to be one of the best offensive prospects in the game. So if you want to fault Viciedo for losing his eligibility after second season go ahead, but that doesn't make him any less of a prospect right now.

QUOTE (CaliSoxFanViaSWside @ Jul 20, 2011 -> 07:01 PM) If they were hitting the Sox would be in 1st place so why trade your best prospect with good starters and a good bullpen? Teams don't trade prospects of Viciedo's caliber very often. Even if there was no spot for him on this roster right now, there will definitely be a spot for him next year one way or the other. So KW isn't going to trade Viciedo unless he's truly desperate and believes his job is on the line, but that's not going to be the case if Dunn and Rios are hitting. Regardless, we aren't in a position to dump our only impact prospect, especially when we have lot of big/bad contracts and may need to cut significant payroll soon. I know the Hudson deal has some people spooked, but I honestly believe that KW values Viciedo much more. I think he'll be the on roster by some point in August, I just hope we aren't out of it by then.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jul 20, 2011 -> 01:30 PM) How many teams have six major league ready starters? That is a ridiculous standard with price of pitching in this day and age. Who said anything about six major league starters? I'm simply talking about an organizational depth chart. If one of your starters goes down, usually you look in your system for a replacement. Not once did I say that guy needs to be major league ready. More likely than not, the guy won't be very good. However, he'll probably be a lot better than your other options and that's why he's that #6 guy. Next year, we may need Santiago to be that guy. We don't have a lot of other options to choose, given our poor system.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jul 20, 2011 -> 01:09 PM) To be fair though...a "top five SP prospect in our system" really doesn't mean all that much, and you know that. If he turns into something valuable it's like hitting the lotto. If we change the odds slightly, it doesn't bug me, especially since I can make a few arguments for the odds going either way. A top five SP prospect may not mean much in terms of his value to other organizations, but that doesn't change his value to us right now. Let's say we lose Mark and Edwin this offseason. We're heading into next year with Peavy, Floyd, Danks, and Humber. Who's your #5 starter? Hopefully Chris Sale. But what happens if he doesn't work or Peavy goes down for an extended period of time? Who gets the call? The point is you should always a #6 starter in mind before a season, whether it's your long-man (if you have one) or a prospect in AAA/AA. Who will be that guy next year? Right now, I'd say Santiago is as good of as an option as we might have. I don't care if he's a top 100 prospect or not, he may be the best option we got and that player should be considered valuable to us. Don't dick him around if you don't need to. Also, the reason this guy came out of nowhere was he was raw and just learned a new pitch. If anything, he needs more time in the minors refining his stuff than a more name-driven prospect. I don't think a couple weeks in our bullpen will make or break him, but I'd much rather had him in AA working on stuff as a starter. IMO, he'll gain more from the innings at this point than doing side-sessions with our major league staff.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jul 20, 2011 -> 12:52 PM) Still, for a guy who was on no one's radar at the start of the season, there's probably benefits to being up in the big leagues, dealing with big league scouting reports, big league hitters/pitchers, and the big league coaching staff. A top flight prospect on everyone's radar, I'd be more annoyed about having him and throwing him once or twice in 3 weeks out of the pen. A guy who came out of no where...if he doesn't gain anything from this experience, then we haven't really lost anything. Except he's arguably a top five SP prospect in our system and one of the closest to being MLB ready. If we need a starter in the next year or two, for whatever reason that may be, he'll definitely be high on that list. We're not exactly overflowing with SP prospects. So him coming out nowhere is irrelevant. He needs to continue to develop as a starter in the minors, so wasting a couple weeks in our bullpen as an insurance policy is just delaying his development. That's the purpose of having guys like Harrell around, so we can avoid using our better prospects for these type of crap roles.

QUOTE (Cali @ Jul 19, 2011 -> 02:14 PM) I'm done with this team if Viciedo is gone for a RELIEVER. I'm with you on that. I'd actually cancel our season tickets for 2012 if that happened. Having said that, there is no way KW trades Viciedo. He refused to give him up last year. Don't remember hearing that he was being offered in trade talks in the past. IMO, Viciedo is one of KW's last signs of credibility as a GM. If he becomes a star hitter, it will take off some of the heat from some of his other moves, such as the Hudson deal.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jul 14, 2011 -> 09:21 PM) Jackson isn't a priority unless someone offers you something better than a sandwich pick And my guess is that someone will. He's going to be one of the best SPs on the market. All it takes is one top 100 prospect and you got yourself a better prospect than a regular sandwich pick. I think it will happen.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jul 14, 2011 -> 08:40 PM) With what the sox have as tradeable assets, this an be done rapidly if nothing stupid is done. The problem is getting nothing from Dunn Rios and Peavy, which is nearly $50 million. If they were just adequate and we got good returns by dealing Quentin and Danks, were right there. If the struggle, then it's 4 years. Sounds like your proposing retooling rather than rebuilding, which I completely agree with.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jul 14, 2011 -> 08:23 PM) I disagree. It has to be John Danks or Carlos Quentin. You do listen very closely on PK though depending on what your plan looks like. As long as you get a reasonable package, I think you have to move Jackson no matter where we are in the standing come July 31st. If you can get a young SP who can join your rotation this year or next year, then I'd move Carlos unless we come out of the break hot. If you've made those other moves, then I think you can move Danks without going into full rebuilding mode. You'd have to get a ton of talent back to even consider the move. If you trade Paulie, then we might as well do a full rebuild, because he's such a huge part of this offense and I doubt you'll get enough back for him with Fielder and Pujols on the market this off-season.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jul 14, 2011 -> 07:46 PM) Btw, a 4-6 year rebuilding process would be a disaster. That's "cut payroll down to $50 million" bad. How long do you think a full rebuilding would take given the poor quality of our farm system? We'd have to suck for several years to get enough high draft picks. If you hit those, maybe you get lucky and it takes four years. If you miss on enough of those it could take a lot longer. When you start losing 90-100 games for multiple years in a row, attendance will drop and payroll will fall.

QUOTE (kitekrazy @ Jul 14, 2011 -> 05:37 PM) They can't rebuild with the current GM and probably others in this organization. I'm not sure if KW has the patience for a legitimate rebuilding. Hard to really say how he'd do, because he's never done more than a retooling. Regardless, if we are going to go through a 4 - 6 year rebuilding process, then we definitely need new blood throughout the organization. That includes a new GM and manager.

QUOTE (kitekrazy @ Jul 14, 2011 -> 05:33 PM) I'm starting to believe Viciedo is being shopped around. He's a Boras client. Then shop him a year or two before he reaches free agency if Boras is still his agent and he won't sign a long-term deal. There is absolutely no reason to shop him right now. He's going to make between $1 - 2 million a year in each of the next three seasons and most likely being extremely productive. I don't know what you think you'll get for him that will be of equal or greater value. Prospects like Viciedo just don't get moved very often anymore, because they are just too damn valuable.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jul 14, 2011 -> 12:51 PM) I can't speak for KW, but if I were in his chair...the only thing that would prevent me from doing the full hard sell is a major run of winning. Define hard sell. If you're proposing a full rebuild, then I think that's a huge mistake. I'm down for a couple moves, such as trading Jackson and Quentin, but I don't think we're that far off from competing next year. I think anything beyond a few tweaks is a huge mistake. What team should we be scared of in 2012? Not saying we'll be the favorite, but I don't see any team in the division who's going to be dominant. I still think you try to make one more run at it in 2012 before you even consider rebuilding.