Jerksticks

I for one hope the Sox are never a top farm system. Nothing worse IMO.

Well if nothing else maybe it will spark some interest in Floyd or at least drive his price up to the other AL East teams. I like Gavin and I hope he stays.

Here's a piece on Castro from March 2011: http://www.minorleagueball.com/2011/3/3/20...an-diego-padres ESPN article intro from April 2011. Insider guys can read the whole thing about him: http://insider.espn.go.com/fantasy/blog?na...%26id%3d6402741 Similar delivery to Contreras and El Duque apparently. This one is worth the read because it's from 2010. Lot's of Castro analysis. http://friarforecast.com/2010/05/14/simon-...-not-mat-latos/

QUOTE (DirtySox @ Dec 29, 2011 -> 06:02 PM) I'll start being optimistic toward rebuilding the farm if Kenny actually uses his entire draft allotment this coming season. So based on where our pick will be, how does Kenny best go about doing this? If you were him.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Dec 29, 2011 -> 03:42 PM) Mark Buehrle wouldn't have cracked a Top 600 list either his first couple of minor league seasons, and now he's a borderline HOF pitcher if he continues for another 5-7 years. (This is like bringing up the last two Cardinals' World Series teams as inspiration for perseverence and comebacks during a season, along with the 2005 Astros). Top 600, 100 or even Top 10 lists are great, but they don't always correlate to actually success in the major leagues, they're just predictors or indicators. We also have produced 3 everyday starters (with the Quentin trade) in Morel, Viciedo and Beckham, have picked up another starter in DeAza for free, Humber for free, Molina for free (because Santos cost virtually nothing), a potential future starter in Flowers, Zach Stewart, Addison Reed...and one of the most exciting starting prospects in baseball, Chris Sale. Alexei Ramirez is far from old and can be considered a franchise cornerstone or key trading chip. That's not exactly NOTHING. There probably aren't more than 8-10 teams in baseball who have had a similar influx of talent in their 20's. I hate when people complain about the farm too. Way to again put it in perspective for those who dog the system. I hope some people actually read what you just wrote.

QUOTE (ScottyDo @ Dec 29, 2011 -> 10:53 AM) One more than we had 3 months ago Yes exactly. That's what makes it so damn cool. We don't have a White Sox prospect, but a real prospect who could crack a top 600 list.

QUOTE (kwolf68 @ Dec 28, 2011 -> 11:36 PM) Right now so much of this scenario depends on a player with 22 innings above A-ball level. EVERY team has some prospect who is the 2nd coming...in fact, most organizations have several of those guys. When in reality, most don't make it...but we have ONE guy and low and behold, he's gonna make it. Ain't it cool though?

QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Dec 28, 2011 -> 03:14 PM) Well none of us know for sure how the market for SP will look a month from now. The only thing that seems likely is that the supply side of the SP market will decrease as we get closer to spring training. So if there are still a few teams with a demand for SP at this point and the number of suppliers has gone down, it would be reasonable to expect the cost to acquire SP to go up. This is just basic economics. Obviously I don't know how many teams will have pitching to trade or will be looking to buy pitching by late January. However, IF the market shifts in the right direction for us and a team is desperate enough to offer us two quality SP prospects I'd take it if I were KW. I'm not saying this will happen and I'm definitely not saying this offer is on the table at the moment. I'm just stating that IF I can eventually get such an offer IN THE FUTURE then I would be willing to trade Floyd. That's the price it would take for me to move him now. Otherwise, I'd probably wait to the deadline to deal him. He's our most valuable tradable asset and I'd like to use him to get some young pitching. I agree, and I don't think KW will trade him prematurely just because of his salary either. Trading him must bring back at least a prospect to replace him and I like your idea of 2. If you want him you can pay for him, otherwise we'll keep his cheap ass.

QUOTE (Fantl916 @ Dec 28, 2011 -> 10:16 AM) I'm not buying the "dominant rotation" part, but I will say that kw has been adept recently at finding good starting pitching. IMO, if all works out we have a couple #2s (danks/sale/nestor) and a couple #3/4 types (Floyd/Humber/) with backend guys in Stewart/axelrod/etc. The prob with what we currently have is the timelines don't mesh. By the time Nestor is established in the bigs Floyd might be gone. Sale has talent for sure, but can it translate to being a starter (a lessor worry of mine) and can he stay healthy over 180+ innings (huge worry of mine with his delivery). Also it's gonna take sale until 2013 to pitch more than 160 innings ap in the immediate future you're looking at a hard innings cap. Danks is already #2/3 and Floyd is an solid #3, but unless someone busts out above their rough expectation (depending on who and what ya read) this org lacks win now pitchers and lacks bigtime prospects for the coming years outside sale and Nestor which isn't a huge problem... BUT... If one of those two doesn't pan out this org will be hurting in the quality sp dept. Who said anything about winning now? Clearly arms need to be built up this year. But 4 out of the 5 should be able to throw around 200 in 2013, just not Sale probably. The 1 point that you do make I agree with though: If one of the two doesn't pan out we are going to be hurting.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Dec 28, 2011 -> 02:42 AM) That's definitely the optimistic, glass half-full analogy. Sure, it's possible. By the way, we don't have Floyd for 3 more years, it's only 2. And the next sentence, you have him "aging" so you kind of contradict yourself. Sale and Molina certainly are the two biggest keys for success in 2013 and beyond...but many would argue that any chance we have to compete THIS YEAR is predicated on Jake Peavy being a "near ace" once again. There's just as good a chance that Humber pitches himself out of the rotation, Stewart ends up as a journeyman reliever and Molina is nothing like what he's hyped up to be by some. Just have no way of knowing. And half this board has already predicted a Sale injury or simply the inability to get past August 15th this season, even if he's having a Cy Young caliber season and replicating the Ghost of Randy Johnsons Past. Trade Floyd, and there are even more question marks, as has been diagnosed/dissected/analyzed in depth in other threads. If you want to talk about AL dominant pitching staffs, you would have been in much better position to argue that coming out of 2008, 2005 or from 1998-2001 with Kip Wells/Buehrle/Biddle/Garland/Josh Fogg/Danny Wright/Rauch/Barcelo/Aaron Myette/Parque/Jason Stumm/Brian West, etc. I think we both subscribe to the idea that anything is possible. If KW got his man in Molina and Sale's arm doesn't fly off, then we are set up quite nicely. We are going to have a ton of money to spend on offense. A ton. Innings need to be built up this year on Sale, Humber and Molina's arms, and arguably Peavy's as well. The 2012 slogan should be "Gettin Experience". And I don't buy into Scherzer and Porcello ever taking the next step. Too many guys gettin on base IMO. Pitching wise, I'd rather be us than them going into the future. But again, anything is possible.

Oh, and DIRT cheap for a while. Once Peavy is off the books our rotation will cost like 20-25 Million for a few years. That leaves the rest to spend on an offense. It's not so bad looking forward...if Molina, Sale and Humber work out. I understand that's a big time IF but so is everything in this silly game we love more than our families.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Dec 28, 2011 -> 01:44 AM) It was certainly not J4L, as he and I were pretty adamant and very wrong about Humber being nothing more than a AAAA guy. I'm still not sure exactly what he is, but I will bet that it's more likely he's a mid to back end of the rotation starter instead of a guy who is going to put up a WHIP of 1. He's got a long ways to go before he's even a sub 1.10 WHIP pitcher. I also don't think of this as a rising powerhouse rotation. I think of Tampa Bay when I think of something like that, and even that's not exactly true. There is a foundation for a rotation that can win a lot of ball games and make the Sox contenders, but they'll need other parts to function as well. Sale obviously has the greatest potential, but he may have the greatest risk for failure as well. I'm not saying all 5 guys are going to compete for CY Youngs, but 5 guys capable of posting 1.2 or better is not something the Tigers, Twins, Indians or Royals are even close to. I do think Nestor becomes our ace though.

I know the following will be a bunch of "Ifs" but every team has them when looking forward. This is obviously a "If everything goes according to plan and potential" type of thread, so here we go: The near-future starting rotation, and arguably the current rotation, is going to dominate this division for years like the old Braves IMO. IF Sale translates his bullpen success to the rotation then we have him and Danks from the left side for the next 5 years. I'm curious if there is a better lefty tandem out there in other MLB rotations. Anybody know? After Peavy leaves, Floyd and Humber will be our old guys at 29 and 30 years old. Floyd dropped his walk rate and WHIP significantly last year and if Humber takes ANOTHER step forward he might post a WHIP around 1 next year. The wild card that could make us devastating is Nestor Molina. I don't buy any of the "pretty good stuff, maybe a #3 at best" projections we saw after the trade was made. If you look at older Blue Jay prospect reports before the trade was made, he's a future ace anywhere you read about him. Look at his WHIPs and walk totals. I love those 2 stats when projecting prospects. I've seen reports of him throwing a pretty hard ball as well. We might see a WHIP under 1 from this guy which IS ace. He doesn't walk guys, period...and he whiffs bats. But yea, his sample size is small, but I think management must see the diamond here if they let Santos go. 2013 Rotation with age and WHIP: Danks 27 1.25 Sale 23 1.1 Humber 30 1.1 Floyd 29 1.2 Molina 24 1.0 If you add just 1 more young, quality arm (maybe we have him in Stewart or Santiago?) to replace either the aging Floyd and Humber then we are set for a very long time. We still have 3 quality prime years left in Floyd and Humber so there really is no rush. Danks might actually be the worst of the group and the most expensive, but by no means is he bad. There's always room for him to take that next step. The offense is getting younger as well but that is another thread. Point is: KW is flying way under the radar right now in my opinion. Nobody in the division can hold a candle to this future rotation...if it works. Hudson was a huge error but there was so much pressure to win now that I've come to terms with it; that pressure has done a 180 IMO. Molina was f***ing HUGE and I'm predicting a hard push by him to make the 25 out of ST.

QUOTE (Rooftop Shots @ Dec 24, 2011 -> 10:29 PM) Quote: "Really, I don't blame anybody for anything that went wrong," Beckham said. "I blame myself for getting away from who I was, someone who was confident and who knew he was capable of doing great things. I'm back there now, and I'm excited to get back in there and compete." Just curious, do you think that this could be anything that had to do with when KW was raggin' and Walker............ about Beckham returning to his old self and old swing that he had when he first came up and had success?? And Beckham saying this because he knew what worked for him, changed some things by listening to Walk, and regrets it, so now he blames himself??? Just a thought High fastballs are high fastballs are high fastballs.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Dec 23, 2011 -> 06:43 PM) It's not going for the strikeout that hurts John, it's that he has no real way to get consistent outs other than the change. You can see him trying to get guys to hit the ball on days he doesn't have the change, but they foul off 5 fastballs. Good point. I think Danks and Floyd both suffer from not being able to get outs without their best stuff, and attacking the inner half of the plate more would do wonders on those days IMO.

If you want Quentin you gotta take Rios, otherwise GFY. I hope that's KW stance on the issue.

Thank the heavens or whatever you believe in that the video was made for us fans only. Imagine if decisions hinged on a pile of junk like that? That was Rocky 4 except not amazing in all aspects.

I look at this as Chris Sale insurance. Now we have 300-400 quality innings from the left side. If we lost John we'd be looking at 100-200 with 200 looking like an impossibility.

QUOTE (Cali @ Dec 8, 2011 -> 04:39 PM) So.... who's catching? Ha my bad but you know what I mean. Point remains. It still looks good on paper even though it's a tease.

QUOTE (kwill @ Dec 8, 2011 -> 12:51 PM) There is no way Carlos is on this team come Spring Training. You could see see teams like The Braves, Marlins, Rangers, Cardinals and Red Sox all be in on him. I like our chances of getting a good size haul now that Albert is out of the market. Kenny can pull the Scott Boras move and wait till all the chips have been played. A few teams left out who need some power and boom you have a good package. Absolutely. Solid 200 Inning and RBI machines don't grow on trees. If we wait, I think contending teams will pay through the roof for Quentin and Danks. They are way more valuable than we give credit for IMO, and waiting until more FAs sign only makes desperate teams hungrier for their services.

De Aza Ramirez Quentin Konerko Dunn Viciedo Rios Beckham Morel That's a potent lineup if it works this year. I just hate the possibility that the last 4-5 spots might be complete black holes again. Trading Quentin and Ramirez sure leaves us with 1 sure major leaguer in Konerko. One. This lineup makes me want to vomit when I think about it but it also makes me want to believe it can work. I hate that. We used to smash the ball and not pitch but now we are the opposite. How can we address any of this without weakening our only asset in pitching? Trade Floyd? Who the hell can that really get us?

This makes me wanna puke.

So is this the major league ready talent KW was talking about? Sure doesn't look that way on the surface So, Sox scouting must have absolutely coveted this guy to make this trade; that's what excites me. I have faith in our pitching scouting. Maybe we are flipping him for a bigger piece?

Maybe he wants a Dunn and Rios for say Steve Strasburg. That way we lose the deal cuz they get 2 guys and we get 1.

I'm excited to see CQ next year. I bet Robin bats him 3rd, and with his contractual motivation, he absolutely rakes. I don't see KW trading him. Viciedo probly gets the starting shot leaving Rios, De Aza and Lillibridge fighting for time with Rios getting the initial nod. It's going to be fun watching this outfield sort itself out.