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QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Aug 9, 2010 -> 04:07 PM) I don't think we were either, and I think part of the reason KW is pissed at Rizzo is that he felt like Rizzo was being totally unreasonable. as I said before, it was beckham or no dunn and that never came down. so no the sox were never close to getting dunn because beckham was not going anywhere

QUOTE (Tony82087 @ Aug 8, 2010 -> 10:35 PM) No it wasn't. While the trade was official, it never was announced, so there was no need to announce the players that were involved. For current Sox prospects watching this show, and seeing that they were actually traded, but still the organization just isn't the best thing to do. It's the same reason they never showed conversations between the Sox and Nationals for Dunn. Players were certainly involved. there were 2 players going to houston, neither of them were in the sox top 10 prospects. obviously I can't name them but none of you would have been upset at them being moved

QUOTE (BigSqwert @ Aug 9, 2010 -> 04:59 PM) Sorry. Was doing my best Rongey impression. Just look at my sig for how I feel about the situation. haha thats funny cause i almost called you rongey in response

QUOTE (BigSqwert @ Aug 9, 2010 -> 04:57 PM) Mark Kotsay will not make or break our season. who will? the lack of a valid DH has put a crack in our season

QUOTE (BigSqwert @ Aug 9, 2010 -> 10:28 AM) I know everyone keeps saying our pitching staff is better than the Twins but they are playing really well, posting a 3.42 ERA since the ASB. I just don't see them falling apart out of nowhere. They've been consistently solid all year long. the twins arent going anywhere. i consider them the favorite to win the division still. and if we dont have a lead of a couple games going into september i think we are in trouble.

QUOTE (fathom @ Aug 6, 2010 -> 10:19 PM) I was really hoping that Dunn would suck after the trade deadline passed. the guy is fricking insane right now

QUOTE (Ranger @ Aug 3, 2010 -> 12:48 AM) So Mark Kotsay may cost the White Sox the division all by himself? That's ridiculous. Again, these season will be won or lost on pitching and there's no way around it. If they don't pitch well, they will not win anything. So, the Sox are only in first place by 1 game because of Kotsay? (He doesn't play every day, by the way). And, no, he's not killing them. Killing them would mean that they're losing a bunch of games because of his presence. Are they losing a bunch of games because he's on the team or in the lineup? Well, obviously not because they haven't been losing much at all for the last two months. To reiterate a point from above, they've lost 11 games since June 9th. How many of those losses do you really think were because Kotsay was in the lineup? Honestly. And tell me specifically how he cost them. Because from what I see, most of those losses came because the pitching failed them in some manner or another (blown saves, starters lasting 3 innings, etc). For example, they gave up 17 runs in their 3 losses in the recent trip to MIN, and one of those losses came because of a Jenks meltdown. That's Kotsay's fault how? And you mean to tell me that the loss in SEA was his fault too? That one was another blown save. And I realize he went hitless in that game but so did everybody else except Beckham, Vizquel and PK. Their last loss to OAK? He didn't play in that game...therefore, not his fault. The Sox are hitting pretty well overall in the last two months, even with Kotsay on the team. He isn't costing them anything. I'm sorry, shack, but I just don't by into this idea that one offensive player is going to cost them. If that were the case, then they would be losing a bunch right now, but they aren't. When they were hitting like garbage in April and May, It was because EVERYBODY but 2 guys were hitting like garbage. When 78% of the lineup is not hitting to your liking, you're gonna lose games. When 2 or 3 guys aren't hitting, you're probably still gonna get by if the pitching is good. Don't know what else to tell you. Ranger this approach you are taking is way too simplistic. Its not black or white that Kotsay will cost the sox a game or he won't. Baseball is typically not that dramatic of a game. Aside from a great or horrible pitching effort, you usually cannot chalk up a win or loss to one player. Its an accumulation of efforts that decides the game. To say that Kotsay isn't costing them anything is absolutely false. Based on your argument it doesn't matter who is in the lineup if either (1) we can't point to a specific at bat that cost the game or (2) everyone else sucks. That is really nonsensical. Your opinion that the Sox will win or lose based on pitching is valid. You say if they don't pitch well they won't win. Obviously that is true, but if they don't hit well they won't win either. If they lose 2-1 or 3-2 is that the pitcher's fault? Why not strive for a better offense to help win those games where the pitching is poor? Also,why are you simply referring to the last two months and the 11 (now 12) losses? Certainly the first two months the Sox lost a ton of games. If Kotsay was a factor in those losses, why don't those count against him? I didn't go back game by game but I can remember a specific game against Texas where he left 7 or 9 guys on base. That loss I attribute directly to him. I am confident there are others. I don't see why you think the Sox should settle for a below average hitter in the lineup, especially at a offensive position like DH. Like I said above, a baseball lineup is an accumulation of hitters. The Sox should have the best possible hitter in the lineup at DH to have the most effect on the runs scored. It is evident that Mark Kotsay is not that player.

QUOTE (BigSqwert @ Aug 4, 2010 -> 03:08 PM) f***ing Kotsay again. Unreal. *shakes head* Its funny, we all think this and know that he is going to play but we still feel compelled to repeat ourselves over and over again and comment on how much we wish he wasn't playing. I think that is a testament to how bad the situation is.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Aug 4, 2010 -> 07:48 AM) Which means that this Phillies source is just as susceptible to spin from other front offices as anyone else is...and just about every front office uses a "our revenue sucks!" spin to try to lull other teams into sleeping while they strike. KW is a master at it. This is a good point. Also, KW has a national media source that he leaks information to in order to create false interest and use in a beneficial manner. The true fact is that the Sox were never close to getting Dunn because Rizzo always insisted on Beckham being in the deal. He never wanted Jackson from us.

maybe juan can get the cycle!

QUOTE (BFirebird @ Aug 3, 2010 -> 01:02 PM) Why is Ozzie so afraid of having Viciedo face righties? Were his minor league splits that awful against righties? I wouldn't consider Porcello, Bonderman and Galarraga righties you need to protect him from. I agree, lets find out what he can do. His upside against righties certainly has to be higher than Kotsay's so I don't see the harm.

QUOTE (RockRaines @ Aug 3, 2010 -> 11:47 AM) Umm. Hard to compare him to anyone. Maybe Poreda with better control and more pitches? He's fairly polished already. i can safely say that i dont miss poreda one bit

QUOTE (iamshack @ Aug 3, 2010 -> 11:45 AM) I wish they would have started Torres for the first game and then promoted Sale for the second game. The order they are doing this in is silly. maybe mark wants to have a few drinks during the night game?

QUOTE (fathom @ Aug 3, 2010 -> 11:21 AM) Maybe Threets actually is hurt, as I'm fairly confident that KW and Ozzie wanted 3 lefty relievers in the pen. they did and wanted to go with 13 pitchers

QUOTE (BigSqwert @ Aug 3, 2010 -> 11:14 AM) I'm by no means an expert on our minor league players so can someone chime in and give us some perspective on how Sale compares to recent pitching hopefuls? Can he be the real deal? I don't believe anyone has seen enough of him to actually give a valid opinion.

QUOTE (whitesoxfan101 @ Aug 1, 2010 -> 12:38 PM) Would we dare carry 13 pitchers? We have a stretch from the 3rd through the 15th with no days off, and a doubleheader on the 4th after all. as of last friday this was the plan

QUOTE (flavum @ Aug 2, 2010 -> 07:49 AM) Floyd has made 22 starts. 1st 11 starts: 6.64 ERA, 61 innings, 78 hits, 45 ER, 23 BB, 49 K, 7 HR 2nd 11 starts: 1.06 ERA, 76.1 innings, 54 hits, 9 ER, 17 BB, 63 K, 0 HR That's right. Floyd has not given up a homer in 11 starts. 77 innings. That's impressive. now you've done it!!

QUOTE (flavum @ Aug 1, 2010 -> 06:33 PM) Freddy is being pushed back to Thursday to get some extra rest. Buehrle and Torres are pitching Tuesday. Jackson on Wed. Freddy on Thursday. Then the rotation the rest of the season should be set...Danks, Floyd, Buehrle, Jackson, Garcia. Not sure what's going on with Sale, but Threets has done a good job. That would be a tough send down for him. its not going to be threets as of right now

torres will start a game on tuesday and then expect to see your new first round pick shortly after!!

QUOTE (chw42 @ Jul 31, 2010 -> 09:28 AM) Same here. I'd almost rather have Scott than Dunn since he can actually play a little bit of the outfield. would you give up mitchell and flowers for scott?

QUOTE (Frank_Thomas35 @ Jul 31, 2010 -> 04:49 AM) I hate to say it, but I could see all this Dunn stuff going back and forth is to add drama for "The Club" I truly see a Dunn deal done (pardon my pun) but this trade won't be announced till right before the deadlie. All this Dunn stuff if fishy and this will be an interestlng next 10 hours. cmon. the club doesnt drive how the sox operate. thats a ridiculous suggestion

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jul 31, 2010 -> 09:46 AM) I'm only asking this...have we ever acquired a hitter on the advice of Walker, because they noticed a mechanical flaw or adjustment holding them back? Now if this happened with Rios or Quentin or whoever, that's great...I just never heard about it. With Cooper, they have found the flaws in Thornton and Floyd pretty quickly (not sure about Danks) and it seems they have an idea what advice they want to give Jackson too. The White Sox have been playing over their heads for weeks, the offense is actually looking, at worst, at least middle-tier in the AL and nobody could make lemonade out of Jones and Kotsay, I am just curious why it's easier to "fix" pitchers than hitters? If you searched the database, how many COOP WILL FIX HIM posts have there been since they days of Loiaza and Marte? I would guess hundreds, if not thousands... i agree with you, i hate these coop will fix him posts

QUOTE (justBLAZE @ Jul 31, 2010 -> 03:58 AM) Someone in this thread earlier said that Myers stuff was bull. its not

QUOTE (bucket-of-suck @ Jul 31, 2010 -> 02:45 AM) Doc, do you get the sense we've made our final offer to Rizzo or does Kenny have one more Dunn-play he can make, but he's trying like hell to avoid it? i dont think we have made our final offer

QUOTE (bucket-of-suck @ Jul 31, 2010 -> 02:24 AM) Doc, tell me they'll land an impact bat of some description tomorrow. i wish i could but it takes two to deal and the options seem to be drying up