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QUOTE (bucket-of-suck @ Jul 31, 2010 -> 02:05 AM) They still want Becks or CQ? Tell me we've progressed at least past that point. we have but they havent

QUOTE (bucket-of-suck @ Jul 31, 2010 -> 02:01 AM) I cant believe Kenny and Rick are still talking to Rizzo. Are they prepared to go all in with Viciedo? nats want more than that

QUOTE (bucket-of-suck @ Jul 31, 2010 -> 01:56 AM) They are targeting a bat beyond the longshot right? still thinking dunn could happen

QUOTE (bucket-of-suck @ Jul 31, 2010 -> 01:46 AM) Long shot? What would you say...50% chance or worse? If it falls through, let's hope they settle for LaRoche and not just stay with Kotsay. long shot, less than 50 no talks about laroche at all thus far

This was one of my favorite games to go to this season. When Lucas walked into the dugout after warming up before the game he went down the line and shook everyone's hand. He was genuinely excited out there, ran off the field after the inning and fist bumped AJ after each inning. It was fun to see the kid this happy to be playing.

QUOTE (hi8is @ Jul 31, 2010 -> 01:26 AM) i heard the same thing from crowley on twitter at 6am yesterday. is that where you are hearing this as well - or do you have some inside info as to who it is?? i know who it is

QUOTE (fathom @ Jul 30, 2010 -> 11:03 PM) I'm sorry, but KW has no one to blame but himself if all this is true. If you're making what equates to a 3-way deal, you better make sure all teams are 100% sure. its not true, he wanted jackson. tonight the nats still asked for way too much for dunn and KW said no

QUOTE (hi8is @ Jul 31, 2010 -> 01:03 AM) you've gotta think that's the most attractive option for us now. there is a more attractive option that is in the works. a name that nobody has rumored about. its a long shot but we are trying to make it happen. stay tuned and cross your fingers!!

QUOTE (EvilJester99 @ Jul 30, 2010 -> 05:11 PM) Cowley was just saying the Big deal KW is working on is still going and its supposedly for someone noone is talking about.. no idea who it could be. I have no idea who this is but it really excites me!

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jul 30, 2010 -> 04:12 PM) Don't worry, Edwin Jackson will hold the Yankees to 6 runs over 4 innings and we won't need to worry about Kotsay. Kotsay will strand 7 runners and we will lose 6-3

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jul 30, 2010 -> 04:10 PM) Which would mean that the Kotsay disaster will continue. And we came out of the trading deadline with at best a very marginal upgrade at a position we were deep at, and zero upgrades at the position we've neglected all year. I hate watching Kotsay at DH I will hate watching him more in the playoffs at DH

QUOTE (J-MAN @ Jul 30, 2010 -> 03:43 PM) I agree 1000% - it is almost as annoying as the damn people who can't get to the ****ing game on time and then have to get up every ten minutes. I wish they would do what they do in tennis - if you get up in the middle of an at bat - don't let them back in until the sides change!!!! I swear we seem to miss many exciting plays because some dumbass who came late is tying to find his ****ing seat. that and the idiot who has to stand up and dig money out of his pockets to buy a beer and then stands there waiting for the beer to come to him and put his money away. all that standing makes me miss 5 pitches!!

QUOTE (Soxbadger @ Jul 30, 2010 -> 03:36 PM) If the Sox had 8mil to spend and Hudson and this is all they can get, it should say how much Hudson was worth. I think this is too big of an assumption to make. We have no idea what other players were offered for Hudson or who KW went after in a Hudson deal. Perhaps the bigger names than Jackson required another player to the deal that KW didn't want to give up. Or perhaps whoever those other trade targets were those teams were driving up the price or liked other teams offers more. Was Hudson offered for Haren or Oswalt? Heck I don't know. But just because Jackson is who we got for Hudson in no way means that we traded him for his peak value. If you are right and this is the case, I would have preferred to keep Hudson and let him pitch in the bigs and see how good he becomes.

QUOTE (Soxbadger @ Jul 30, 2010 -> 03:22 PM) Kalapse, When 90% of the posters are condescending towards me, I cant help myself. If people want to imply that I dont understand f***ing salary, the most simple thing in baseball, then Im going to give it back in spades. If people want to believe that Hudson is better than Jackson, thats one thing. But to suggest that some how the Sox dont understand the potential consequences of adding more pitching salary to a team in need of hitting, is just mind boggling. At least give the Sox management some credit, that maybe they know a little bit what they are doing. Thats all I ask from posters, juts give them a shred of credit. You dont have to agree, but KW has been responsible for more success than any other GM in my life. He at least deserves some deference in his decision making. I dont think we are saying that the sox dont understand the consequences. I think we are saying that we dont agree with the need for a mediocre starter over an impact hitter. Absolutely KW deserves some credit and I am glad we have him because he has balls and will take risks. That doesn't mean we can't debate his decisions and disagree with them. Anyways, I don't think Jackson makes us any better team than Hudson does.

QUOTE (Soxbadger @ Jul 30, 2010 -> 03:15 PM) Wharris, Dont you know Brandon Allen was Ruth and Hudson was Cy Young. We gave away everything for nothing! DAMN THEM! (haha) Anyways for all the love Hudson is getting, people seem to forget that Jackson was basically untouchable in the Dodger farm system and was considered one of the top future pitchers in all of baseball not to long ago. talk about irrelevant. I doubt the Dodgers regret losing him at all. I suppose you are going to tell us next that he beat Randy Johnson in his first start so he must be better than him too.

QUOTE (Soxbadger @ Jul 30, 2010 -> 03:12 PM) No that presupposes that some how the White Sox could have used the money that Jackson will receive this year for a bat. The more likely scenario is that Hudson could not get the White Sox anything better than Jackson. And salary is relevant overall, but not in the context of this trade. Reinsdorf decided that they could afford Jackson. If salary was an issue they would have gotten money back or not done the trade. The Sox clearly feel they can afford this salary, therefore it is not relevant. Yes they do feel they can afford this salary. But the point is they cannot afford this salary and something else, whatever that something may or could have been. That goes for this year and next year because now they have $8M less to spend than they would have if the trade was not made. The Sox may believe that the $8M is best spent on Jackson. I disagree because I think we need a hitter more, both now and next season. The upgrade over Hudson in my mind is minimal, if at all. Whereas the upgrade over Kotsay/Jones would be huge whoever that $8M player was.

QUOTE (Soxbadger @ Jul 30, 2010 -> 03:06 PM) Ill play "What my eyes tell me". And id say on the majority of White Sox trades, ive been on the right side (look it up if youd like). I was a huge fan of the Floyd trade when no one else was, and once again Ill be the only person who is a fan of this trade if I have to be. Salary is irrelevant in this discussion because the people who have the money, have decided that salary didnt matter. I am comfortable that Reinsdorf wont overspend and put his team in peril for the next few seasons. That leaves the only consideration of who is better, Hudson or Jackson. I think Hudson is a serviceable pitcher, but im not sure that I want him as a playoff pitcher this year. That would mean Freddy would be our 4. With Jackson the Sox have flexibility (if he stays). Jackson has been brutal since his no hitter, my guess is that he is suffering from dead arm. Not a great time to be picking him up, but most likely you wouldnt get Jackson for Hudson at any other team. Its clear Hudson wasnt a hot commodity to anyone else but fans on this message board. Salary is relevant and you are saying so in this same sentence. If Jerry won't overspend then the Sox are tapping out their allotment of salary on a 4th starter who won't have much positive impact in lieu of a big bat who would have an impact every day.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jul 30, 2010 -> 02:30 PM) Even if there is something else going on, this is still a bad trade. Someone else would have to make a worse trade to us involving Jackson in order for this to look good. I am with you. I wouldnt trade Hudson for Jackson, let alone adding another prospect. Not that I think Holmberg is anything outstanding but he could still be a servicable pitcher.

QUOTE (SoxFan562004 @ Jul 30, 2010 -> 02:18 PM) no, I'm smart enough to figure it out, I'm also factoring in that the trade deadline isn't here yet, so we're all speculating on what the Sox roster will look like and KW and JR are aware of what their budget is both this year and next year and they have done everything in their power to make this a team that competes every season, doesn't always work, but 2 out of the last 5 years they were in the playoffs in a division that has had other good teams and one of those years they won the WS, also, in the 6th year they are in 1st place on July 30th. It's not crazy that some of us have faith that they know what they're doing. I have faith in them too and I hope there is some master plan. Part of the whole fun of talking about all this stuff while it is happening is to see how things develop and look back on what we all said. I believe that as it stands now a lot of people are saying that this is a bad trade but those same people also believe there has to be something more going on.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Jul 30, 2010 -> 02:09 PM) The people who don't like the Hudson deal are not complaining because of Hudson's talent. It's the way he fits into the team's payroll next season that made him more valuable. That simply cannot be ignored. the people who like the hudson deal cant seem to figure out that payroll actually is a major factor

QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ Jul 30, 2010 -> 01:53 PM) You guys are welcome to feel that way, but I find that a little sad. I don't need angels, but I refuse to root for the success of complete scumbags like that. I just can't do it. AJ is an "asshole" in the sense that he is annoying, plays a little dirty, etc. I can handle that no problem. But that's a long way from beating up your wife in public. how about that jackass who beat his wife and that bass player that the smashing pumpkins had a benefit concert for? that guy needs to be locked up and ass slammed in the pen

QUOTE (knightni @ Jul 30, 2010 -> 01:04 PM) I think he got Jackson because Washington wanted Jackson and not Hudson. if that is true then washington is stupid

QUOTE (Linnwood @ Jul 30, 2010 -> 12:56 PM) Just got an email from WhiteSox.com announcing trade. They don't do that for people they intend to flip, right? who knows, it hasnt really happened before

QUOTE (Kalapse @ Jul 30, 2010 -> 12:47 PM) Baseball may not have a salary cap but teams still work with budgets, having a $54M starting rotation means we'll have to sacrifice in other areas. If we had an unlimited budget I doubt we'd have arguably the worst regular in baseball as our DH right now. Right on. I don't see how anyone would rather have an $8M 4th starter over an $8M DH.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jul 30, 2010 -> 12:16 PM) Hudson has control issues, and has never pitched in a pennant race. Jackson's best career year was the in AL Central, and he knows most of the teams and personnel already. The only White Sox starters (prospects) to amount to anything recently have been Richard and Gio Gonzalez, and that's going back 10 years. Proven veteran >>> Rookie pitcher in the heat of his first pennant race Finally, if Cooper didn't think he could work more with Jackson than Hudson, he undoubtedly would have told KW to forget it. Jackson has had control issues for years and still hasnt figured them out. Why do people assume that if a guy knows most of the teams and personnel that makes him a better pitcher? Does it over occur to you that the hitters know him too?? That may be true but its not what he eventually becomes, its what you could get for him now as a commodity. Proven veteran who is average at best and extremely well paid.