Eminor3rd

FWIW, this is not written by Sickels, though it is on Sickels' website.

Sale had MLB service though, so it's not truly a comparable.

Civil WAR: Is Nolan Gorman still a 50 FV? Any movement now or guesses on where he’ll be in the offseason write ups? 12:24 Kiley McDaniel: Only Madrigal and Mize are 55’s from that draft class, so Gorman can’t really get up there until the positional stuff is more decided, which will take time to see which direction he’s trending. A couple scouts said when Gorman was getting beat up by scouts this spring that he’s Austin Riley and he’s sure starting his pro career the same way.

If firing Ricky will sate the lynch-mob that SoxTalk has become for even a few weeks, then fine. It won't solve anything, of course, but whatever. I gotta be honest, when I was bracing myself for the pain of going through the rebuild, I didn't think SoxTalk would be harder to deal with than watching the crappy games. This place has become miserable.

Serious question: if most of these players actually become good, will you even be able to enjoy it?

At what point do we start worrying?

I think it's just so early to tell. Hell, it's entirely possible that by the time the draft rolls around, both of those guys won't even be considered in the top ten. So much changes with amateurs between drafts. They still have a whole season to play, and they're so young that there can be drastic shifts in physicality and maturity in a short amount of time. This time last year, all the 1-1 discussion were centered on Brice Turang vs Ethan Hankins, for example.

RIP Tony Sly

If we bought the team, do you think Jerry and Kenny would form a message board and criticize us for not spending enough money?

Soxtalk should band together and do a documentary on the intricacies and history of the Reinsdorf family estate. There's an unbelievable amount of detailed insider knowledge here. We could also generate revenue for the site by offering financial planning services. We'd be foolish to squander this much expertise.

Moncada and Castro are so different that this comparison is hilarious. They have like almost opposite sets of tools. All of one's strengths are the other's weaknesses. Castro = insane hit tool that plays down due to excessive aggressiveness/lack of discipline, middling power, middling speed, excellent arm but poor defensive instincts Moncada = fringey hit tool that should play up due to excellent discipline, but needs to add aggressiveness, big time power, elite speed, fringey arm but good range and instincts.

Right but this whole thread (and 80% of all others) are written by people who DON'T know it's too soon.

When this shit does or doesn't work. Nobody can tell right now.

As far as his ceiling goes, I think what we're seeing is about it. He's already a very polished hitter and should be peaking in terms of athleticism. He's been a pleasant surprise, but I expect the question is more along the lines of "how much longer can he keep doing this" than it is "how much better can he get?"

Is this a serious thread?

No, but that's not what you said. You said, "that's pretty much replacement level." Average and replacement level are very different things. Also, wRC+ isn't a stat that has a "replacement level," as it measures only offense, excluding defense and position. If you wanted to measure productivity against replacement level, you'd need to use WAR. The poster was pointing out that Moncada has 1.0 fWAR, which (at this point in the season) is a bit below average, but well above replacement level.

You should read up on this stuff man

We'll see what happens, but if he's got everything down they've asked, I imagine he'll be up. I don't think they're holding him for service time. Especially for pitchers, there's just not a good reason to do that.

Right -- a lot of people here still don't seem to understand what this team is trying to do. Yoan Moncada is a 23-year old prospect that the White Sox hope turns into a star. He is hitting at the MLB level right now because that's the hurdle that the front office believes he needs to overcome, not because the front office is trying to win a championship this year. I know it's different, guys, but take a step back and look at the big picture here.

Kopech has nothing to do with service time. He was slaying AAA at the start of the year, the front office told him he needed to refine his changeup before he would have success at the MLB level. He started working on the changeup, began struggling (as is understandable, given the circumstances), and simply hasn't been able to return to the same level of dominance with the arsenal that the FO has prescribed.

Enough strikeouts so that his batting line became really bad.

Ok, I must have seen 93 before it was updated from last night. Regardless, 94 is the average second baseman. He's roughly average for a second baseman. I don't know if that's "slicing and dicing," but it's pretty clear. Choosing two random stats out of context (K Rate + OPS) is exactly why we have stats like wRC+ in the first place -- so we DON'T have to use "your eyes." We can actually add everything up and see how much all of those stats matter, relative to each other. Also, what are we arguing? You responded to a post about him learning in AAA or the MLB. Are you saying he should be in AAA?

He IS a league average second baseman, he just doesn't have a league average batting line, which is propped up by first baseman and corner outfielders. MLB league average 2B is 94 wRC+ this year. Moncada is 93. Regarding the second line: I never said it wasn't. The conversation I was having was about whether or not Moncada needed more time in AAA. Moncada has disappointed everyone by not being a star this year, but he has NOT been overmatched. He's 23. He's working out his struggles in the Majors, where most 23 year olds are working out their struggles in AA/AAA. This is good. He's on a good track.

If what he's doing now -- 93 wRC+, which is maybe a standard deviation below a league average MLB batting line -- is "failure," then I would say it's pretty clear that he should be learning at the MLB level. The power is there, the speed is there, and the defense is passable and improving. The only thing between him and stardom is pitch selection. He needs to be working on recognizing Major League-quality pitches.

Remember earlier this season when Covey was a part of the next competitive core?