Frank_Thomas

QUOTE (southside hitman @ Jul 27, 2012 -> 11:25 AM) I think we already are "going for it" but trading for Peavy and Youkilis, signing Rios and Dunn, resigning Konerko and Danks, etc etc I could go on and on. That is going for it, not completely f'ing our future for a 3 month rental who doesn't seem to want anything to do with you. I understand he will pitch for whoever acquires him, but just realize after the season is over, he is gone and Reed is going to be the Brewers closer for the next 5. Ya most people that saw the team before this year wouldn't agree with you. The term "going for it" didn't really ring out with many people describing this team. But with good managing, bounce back years most people didn't think possible, good moves by the front office in calling up players has got us to the point we are in first place. I agree getting Youk and Meyers showed KW was going for it this year. But IMO as is now we are a playoff bubble team that gets eliminated first round by a NYY, TX, LAA. With ZG in our rotation, I see us as WS contenders hand down. Going for it in my estimation is WS not AL central.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jul 27, 2012 -> 11:05 AM) In many ways, he's very similar to Javy Vazquez. Yep overrated... ZG Career: G GS W L SV BS HLD CG SHO IP H R ER HR BB K ERA WHIP BAA 259 218 85 76 1 0 12 12 3 1402.2 1402 640 590 138 353 1254 3.79 1.25 .259 And he is identical to Javy... Javy Career: G GS W L SV BS HLD CG SHO IP H R ER HR BB K ERA WHIP BAA 450 443 165 160 0 0 1 28 8 2840.0 2784 1431 1331 373 763 2536 4.22 1.25 .255 Come on guys ZG is an ace and one of the best pitchers in the game stuff wise. He has played for bad teams and still had a remarkable career

QUOTE (southside hitman @ Jul 27, 2012 -> 11:01 AM) I disagree. 6 years of Reed closing for us is not worth 10 starts of Greinke who has publicly said he doesn't like our ballpark and didn't list the White Sox as a preferred team he'd like to end up with. Beyond that, by losing Reed we hurt our bullpen badly, so the advantage of acquiring Greinke is mitigated. I personally trust KW, our scouts, player development, talent evaluators, etc we have in place with in the organization to make player decisions. They have had a damn good track record since Buddy Bell came in and our current ML roster shows that. With that said I also trust their assessment of a player when determining if he is replaceable going forward. Look at Sergio, people were flabergasted when KW traded him for nothing. And they guy hasn't pitched since April. Let them do their jobs. We have multiple closers on the team now and I trust them to find a replacement if need be for future years. Again do you want to take a chance and be a part of another deep run in October, see a trophy lifted in the middle of US Cellular field, a parade with 2 Mil people in the streets of Chicago. Or do you want to worry about what could happen next year and in 2018 next year. Cause the difference is, the Chicago Whitesox go for it, year in year out. The Chicago Cubs wait till next year and worry about next year in July. Me, I prefer to be a Sox fan. Go get em' Kenny, worry about next year in November with another ring on your finger.

I guess I just disagree. IMO ZG is worth a gamble on a very good team, in a year where Baseball Is very much wide open for the first time in a while. And it's not like they guy is going to combust, he has proven to be an ace pitcher his whole career. Including a playoff run with the Brewers. He is a competitor and would relish the chance to help a first place team go to the playoffs and maybe win a championship. And by the way make himself a little money in the process. Money I think we would pay of we WIN.

QUOTE (SOXOBAMA @ Jul 27, 2012 -> 10:49 AM) Its Greinke or nobody. We are going all out for Greinke, the Brewers want Reed. According to Heyman, he was on WSCR Wow thanks for the info. I agree with the approach go for the most Impactful guy on the market or stand pat. Maybe that is why KW was proactive in getting Meyers before the market really shaped up for him. He could have known he may have to part with Reed for Zach.

QUOTE (fathom @ Jul 27, 2012 -> 10:37 AM) If the Sox traded huge pieces of their future for someone like Greinke for only and year and a half of his services, and then traded him away for an underachieving starting pitcher with one year left on his deal and an underachieving second baseman who's a possible non-tender candidate, I don't think anyone on here would be happy. This was the trade back then the Brewers had with the Royals: The Royals receive speedy outfielder Lorenzo Cain, young shortstop Alcides Escobar and pitching prospects Jeremy Jeffress and Jake Odirizzi for Greinke and veteran shortstop Yuniesky Betancourt, who presumably will take Escobar's place in the Brewers' infield. Kansas City will also send $2 million in the deal to Milwaukee to cover part of the salary of Betancourt, who is to make $4 million this year and has a $2-million buyout in 2012. IMO not one of those guys they received in return are perennial All-Stars and aren't players you can build a team around. If the Sox trade them Floyd and Beckham the Brewers have a replacement for Escobar in Beckham and a cost controlled SP who could be dominate in the NL. Let's not kid ourselves here, Floyd has nasty stuff. When he is on he is unhittable. It's not like the Brewers are getting some slouch. Gavins problem is in between his ears most of the time. And it turns out the Brewers have success with pitchers like that, see Zach Grienke. And if the Sox throw in Castro or Hernandez they have a young prospect with a high upside.

QUOTE (ChiSox_Sonix @ Jul 27, 2012 -> 10:23 AM) Probably because the last couple times he did he got jumped all over by some people who thought he was just making stuff up Ah, well then I definitely get it. I wouldn't want to share insider info either if I were to be jumped on if what I heard didn't pan out. A lot happens, a source can only have so much detail about conversations. Look at how many times the likes of Buster Onley, Ken Rosenthal, Jon Heyman, Jon Morosi's info and sources don't pan out. Heck it just happened with Dempster. It happens in reporting.

QUOTE (RockRaines @ Jul 27, 2012 -> 10:05 AM) A little, but I dont share them on the board anymore outside of PM's. Why? You seemed to always be right on. That's unfortunate but definitely understand.

QUOTE (Frank_Thomas35 @ Jul 27, 2012 -> 08:37 AM) Here are their splits: Greinke G GS W L SV BS HLD CG SHO IP H R ER HR BB K ERA WHIP BAA April 30 30 12 7 0 0 0 3 1 183.2 172 58 49 9 48 150 2.40 1.20 .246 May 49 40 15 15 0 0 3 5 1 263.1 271 121 116 28 51 233 3.96 1.22 .265 June 47 37 16 15 1 0 3 1 0 252.1 260 141 133 33 57 229 4.74 1.26 .264 July 47 37 9 19 0 0 3 1 0 224.2 241 130 116 26 68 226 4.65 1.38 .274 August 43 34 14 10 0 0 3 1 1 227.1 223 98 90 24 60 197 3.56 1.24 .255 Septembe 41 38 19 9 0 0 0 1 0 240.1 222 85 79 18 66 211 2.96 1.20 .245 October 2 2 0 1 0 0 0 0 0 11.0 13 7 7 0 3 8 5.73 1.45 .317 vs. CLE 27 22 8 9 0 0 2 0 0 132.2 142 66 56 10 44 120 3.80 1.40 .273 vs. DET 25 22 11 6 0 0 0 2 0 133.1 123 45 42 11 33 102 2.84 1.17 .243 vs. TEX 12 10 3 5 0 0 1 1 1 64.0 61 22 20 7 13 59 2.81 1.16 .242 vs. NYY. 11 8 2 4 0 0 1 0 0 44.2 51 34 32 7 23 27 6.45 1.66 .283 vs. LAA 8 7 1 4 0 0 0 2 0 48.2. 56 21 20 3 11 38 3.70 1.38 .293 Floyd: G GS W L SV BS HLD CG SHO IP H R ER HR BB K ERA WHIP BAA April 34 32 13 12 0 0 0 0 0 192.1 185 124 113 26 88 149 5.29 1.42 .253 May 31 30 11 14 0 0 0 3 1 184.1 196 114 111 24 59 127 5.42 1.38 .271 June 29 29 11 8 0 0 0 2 0 183.2 167 87 73 24 53 146 3.58 1.20 .239 July 27 25 12 8 0 0 0 0 0 164.0 151 74 63 21 57 124 3.46 1.27 .246 August 30 26 13 8 0 0 0 0 0 169.0 180 90 87 27 45 138 4.63 1.33 .274 September32 29 6 13 0 0 0 0 0 174.2 185 91 86 19 50 142 4.43 1.35 .272 vs. CLE 14 14 7 4 0 0 0 0 0 82.1 88 47 43 7 21 77 4.70 1.32 .274 vs. DET 19 19 7 2 0 0 0 0 0 115.2 122 51 44 11 36 90 3.42 1.37 .269 vs. TEX 7 7 2 4 0 0 0 0 0 38.0 35 25 21 9 16 26 4.97 1.34 .236 vs. NYY 8 7 2 3 0 0 0 0 0 46.0 52 31 31 12 16 37 6.07 1.48 .287 vs. LAA 8 8 2 5 0 0 0 2 0 56.0 52 32 31 8 16 34 4.98 1.21 .249 I would have to disagree after seeing this, I would much rather have Zach for the next two months. Those are some scary numbers from Gavin for the last two months of the season and against playoff teams. That's hy KW makes this move. This is a huge difference maker. And looking at his number in August Sept and Oct. And against our competitors is why it makes it so attractive to us. Even if we have to give up ML guys like GB and Floyd.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jul 27, 2012 -> 09:49 AM) For a team that has lost Sabathia and now Grienke because they can't afford to pay them, a middle of the rotation cost controlled pitcher could very well have some value to a small market franchise like Milwaukee. I have no idea what the Brewers think of Floyd, but the idea isn't necessarily as laughable as you think. If they can't get a very young pitcher, a guy like Floyd gives them some stability and respectability in that rotation. Good post well said, and that's why it has to be atleast attractive for Melvin.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jul 27, 2012 -> 09:28 AM) Colon for Lee, Sizemore, Brandon Phillips Good call! But two of those three play for different teams and one has suffered injury setbacks their whole careers. It's just such a gamble IMO. Look at the high profile pitchers traded recently, CC twice, C-Lee twice, Doc just to name the recent ones and most of those prospects returned are replaceable on most rosterS.

QUOTE (southside hitman @ Jul 27, 2012 -> 09:17 AM) I understand your point, but he's not asking for prospects who are years away, he has been asking about guys who are pretty advanced. Mike Olt is 23 and mashing in AA, Julio Teheran and Delgado are in Triple A and the Majors respectively, Jean Segura and Garrett Richards of the Angels, guys that are going to contribute next year and be cheap and under team control for 6 years. Floyd is a good pitcher, don't get me wrong, but he's inconsistent and was made very available in the off-season and nobody traded for him. How has his value increased since then? Egg on my face if Floyd is dealt for Greinke, but I don't see the Brewers doing that. I hear you, but all those people are just big question marks with good pedigrees and scouting reports. How that success translates to the big leagues is a huge huge jump. That's why you see so many highly regarded prospects fizzle out. The ML is a different beast you have to be able to mentally make adjustments daily. Most of these prospects get by in the minors because of their god gifted physical talent. That alone will only make you average in the big leagues. I just see Melvin seeing the Sox offer as more for sure thing. I could be way off and Melvin may just add these great prospects and hope they catch on this year, next year or the year after in the bigs or triple-A. Who knows anytime you make a trade for prospects it's like playing the lottery IMO.

QUOTE (southside hitman @ Jul 27, 2012 -> 08:31 AM) I think that type of package may be a backup plan for Melvin, but I can promise you if the Braves include some of their pitching prospects, or Texas agrees to include Olt, they aren't passing up on that. I hate to say it but if you look at these Blockbuster trades for pitchers in the past. The team trading the pitcher always gets this sick package of can't miss prospects back in return. But really how many of those trades have panned out now? Moat of those center pieces had fizzed out or have been average players, basically Beckham and Floyd now. The only return I can think of recently was ATL and Tex swapping Texeria for basically half of the current rangers team. But other than that there is not that great win for any team.

QUOTE (southside hitman @ Jul 27, 2012 -> 08:31 AM) I think that type of package may be a backup plan for Melvin, but I can promise you if the Braves include some of their pitching prospects, or Texas agrees to include Olt, they aren't passing up on that. Again I disagree, if you're Houston, the Cubs, Miami, KC, Etc. You want a teams best prospects so you can build in the future. The difference is Melvin doesn't want to rebuild he wants to make trades to help the the team continue to win now and next year. He doesn't believe he needs to blow the thing up. Not to mention they have to keep the team competitive when you have Ryan Braun manning LF. IMO I think Melvin wants players back that have ML track records, players that help the ML team, and players he has control of. Yes TEX, ATL, LAA all have better farms but ultimately I think what brings ZG to us is our willingness to include the likes of Gavin and Gordon. I think that is why we saw LAA pull out last night, they have great prospects but backed off at the price. If the price was steep because of prospects involved the Sox wouldn't still be in the conversation at this point.

QUOTE (pittshoganerkoff @ Jul 27, 2012 -> 07:59 AM) I agree that the Sox have to do what they can to grab this opportunity...within reason. Personally, I don't see the value of a Quintana for Grienke swap. It might be a slight upgrade for 8-10 starts, but you're sacrificing the future for 2 months. A Floyd for Grienke swap would be an upgrade (slight or maybe a bit better), and you're holding on to that future. If we as White Sox fans have learned anything over the past 7 years (since 2005), it's to dislike the trading of the future of the team for a chance today. Here are their splits: Greinke G GS W L SV BS HLD CG SHO IP H R ER HR BB K ERA WHIP BAA April 30 30 12 7 0 0 0 3 1 183.2 172 58 49 9 48 150 2.40 1.20 .246 May 49 40 15 15 0 0 3 5 1 263.1 271 121 116 28 51 233 3.96 1.22 .265 June 47 37 16 15 1 0 3 1 0 252.1 260 141 133 33 57 229 4.74 1.26 .264 July 47 37 9 19 0 0 3 1 0 224.2 241 130 116 26 68 226 4.65 1.38 .274 August 43 34 14 10 0 0 3 1 1 227.1 223 98 90 24 60 197 3.56 1.24 .255 Septembe 41 38 19 9 0 0 0 1 0 240.1 222 85 79 18 66 211 2.96 1.20 .245 October 2 2 0 1 0 0 0 0 0 11.0 13 7 7 0 3 8 5.73 1.45 .317 vs. CLE 27 22 8 9 0 0 2 0 0 132.2 142 66 56 10 44 120 3.80 1.40 .273 vs. DET 25 22 11 6 0 0 0 2 0 133.1 123 45 42 11 33 102 2.84 1.17 .243 vs. TEX 12 10 3 5 0 0 1 1 1 64.0 61 22 20 7 13 59 2.81 1.16 .242 vs. NYY. 11 8 2 4 0 0 1 0 0 44.2 51 34 32 7 23 27 6.45 1.66 .283 vs. LAA 8 7 1 4 0 0 0 2 0 48.2. 56 21 20 3 11 38 3.70 1.38 .293 Floyd: G GS W L SV BS HLD CG SHO IP H R ER HR BB K ERA WHIP BAA April 34 32 13 12 0 0 0 0 0 192.1 185 124 113 26 88 149 5.29 1.42 .253 May 31 30 11 14 0 0 0 3 1 184.1 196 114 111 24 59 127 5.42 1.38 .271 June 29 29 11 8 0 0 0 2 0 183.2 167 87 73 24 53 146 3.58 1.20 .239 July 27 25 12 8 0 0 0 0 0 164.0 151 74 63 21 57 124 3.46 1.27 .246 August 30 26 13 8 0 0 0 0 0 169.0 180 90 87 27 45 138 4.63 1.33 .274 September32 29 6 13 0 0 0 0 0 174.2 185 91 86 19 50 142 4.43 1.35 .272 vs. CLE 14 14 7 4 0 0 0 0 0 82.1 88 47 43 7 21 77 4.70 1.32 .274 vs. DET 19 19 7 2 0 0 0 0 0 115.2 122 51 44 11 36 90 3.42 1.37 .269 vs. TEX 7 7 2 4 0 0 0 0 0 38.0 35 25 21 9 16 26 4.97 1.34 .236 vs. NYY 8 7 2 3 0 0 0 0 0 46.0 52 31 31 12 16 37 6.07 1.48 .287 vs. LAA 8 8 2 5 0 0 0 2 0 56.0 52 32 31 8 16 34 4.98 1.21 .249 I would have to disagree after seeing this, I would much rather have Zach for the next two months. Those are some scary numbers from Gavin for the last two months of the season and against playoff teams. That's hy KW makes this move. This is a huge difference maker. Floyd:

QUOTE (southside hitman @ Jul 27, 2012 -> 08:18 AM) I know Floyd is the popular name to throw around as far as trade rumors go, but has Milwaukee shown any indication of wanting him? Everyone they've asked for is a top prospect, not Floyd/Beckham who are underachieving major leaguers who are probably never going to hit their expected potential. If this deal goes down for the Sox, expect it to be guys like Keenyn Walker, Trayce Thompson, Scott Snodgress, and a young valuable big leaguer like Quintana, Jones, Reed or Viciedo. Those guys have lots of team control, actually have potential and are cheap. IMO yes they have shown interest. I don't know for sure about right bow. But a year or so ago the Brewers wanted Floyd+Beckham+ Spects for Prince Fielder. They have been known to have an interest in both players in previous years. I would assume they internally want to turn GB back into a SS, and like Floyds stuff in the NL. I also think Melvin is interested in ML ready players in exchange. People he can plug in and know what he is getting, instead of gambling on a teams prospects who are great minor players.

QUOTE (Melissa1334 @ Jul 27, 2012 -> 08:06 AM) i dont see how they could move weeks at this point. hes owed 21mil the next two years combined, which i wouldnt want the sox paying. theyre better off keeping him and hope that he does better next year than to trade him and pay half his salary. anyways, floyd, beckham+ for greinke,not sure. floyd and prospects or a reliever fine. i really dont see greinke doing that much better than floyd the rest of the way We get Weeks because it fits a need created at second by trading Beckham, and also makes it desirable for MIL to trade weeks to save that 21 MIL. Weeks is a way better option than the sub .200 hitting of Esco or O Dog. Additionally, when Weeks plays well he is a hell an offensive threat.

QUOTE (pittshoganerkoff @ Jul 27, 2012 -> 08:00 AM) I like the idea of Floyd/Beckham for Grienke/Weeks. I don't think it's enough though. The Sox would have to give up something else. I agree I ultimately see those four names as the headliners in a potential trade, with a couple of lesser prospects going to the Brewers as well. Hopefully we will get a lot more info today since yesterday was slow with the off day. Either way reports say this thing should wrap up be the latest Sunday when ZG pitches.

QUOTE (pittshoganerkoff @ Jul 27, 2012 -> 07:42 AM) I might actually like that deal. Floyd and Beckham for Grienke? The problem becomes, who is our second baseman? Hudson most likely. I would assume it would be Hudson, however I think I would prefer Escobar to start. And don't be shocked if we trade Gordon if we got MIL 2B in return, Weeks. And then he'd be our two bagger.

Unless they want Santiago, Septimo, Jones, etc

Come on no chance. Seatle is a long long way from success. Sox are probably looking at bullpen help. Or maybe Figgins to take Beckham's spot after we get Grienke. If SEA is trading The King the are getting a King Ransom of young stud prospects like a return we have never seen. If he is available it's everyone for themselves, NY isn't helping us with Spects for him. And too many teams have the farms to get it done in a second IMO.

QUOTE (greg775 @ Jul 26, 2012 -> 11:13 PM) How old is Weeks? I actually could envision Beckham playing for Milwaukee. Ricky is 29 here is last year and this year and career lines: Year G AB R H HR RBI BA OBP SLG OPS+ BB SO SB CS 2011 118 453 77 122 20 49 .269 .350 .468 120 50 107 9 2 2012 93 340 39 68 10 34 .200 .313 .350 77 50 114 7 0 Car 853 3206 562 800 119 348 .250 .350 .426 105 403 869 107 22 Best part is if we do in fact trade him to Milwaukee we can still root for him and watch him rather regularly. And drive up and see him in person whenever.

QUOTE (SOXOBAMA @ Jul 26, 2012 -> 11:02 PM) We might have to face Greinke this weekend, if he is traded to Texas by sunday. Hopefully it will be Texas facing Greinke on Sunday with the sox looking to sweep.... Again!!!

QUOTE (greg775 @ Jul 26, 2012 -> 10:58 PM) True, but even with Zach there is absolutely no guarantee we'll make the playoffs. Before the Minnie series, the offense was putrid again. Still have some bullpen uncertainty and on and on. I mean with Zach the playoff rotation does look great, but getting there? That's the problem even with Zach. It's not worth the gamble for rental Zach. Like somebody said, Q has been as good as Zach so far this year. Makes no sense to include Q in a deal for Z. Agreed, but I like our chances a lot more with Grienke for the next two months. Even if it's at the unfortunate expense of Beckham and Floyd or Floyd and De Aza. I also agree with your assessment before the Twinkies came in. Our offense has shown that for a while, we have streaky hitters. That happens to everyone. The best way to combat that is to have a good defense and greAt pitching. If we have stout pitching, we don't need to put up 5-6 runs a game. But scoring 2-3 runs with great pitching and great defense wins just as many games as having horrible pithching and slugging 5-6 runs a game. See the Yankees, Redsox, Detroit at times. Great pitching and D doesnt go into slumps. And in October you see a lot more low score games because of great pitching.

QUOTE (bucket-of-suck @ Jul 26, 2012 -> 10:54 PM) There is always the "mystery team" scenario but it may be down to Tex, Sox & Braves for Greinke & Johnson and the pieces may start falling in the next day or so. Darn seems less positive then your previous info. I really want this to happen. But it's not the end of the world, if we don't land him. Here's how I see it shaking out: LA Dodgers- get Matt Garza For Zach Lee and Spects Braves- get Dempster after all- for Delgado or a lesser package Texas- shocks the world again and bring back An old friend Mr. Lee for their prized third basemen Olt since Phil really needs a 3B plus Spects. Whitesox- Land Grienke for Floyd+Beckham+ 2 lower Spects for Grienke+ Weeks + K Rod or Loe Josh Johnson stays put