Baron

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jan 14, 2016 -> 06:17 PM) Out of curiosity how many runs did the Sox OF defense cost them in 2015? About 30 runs. That's what I was getting at with Jackson. With him on a down year in this category for him your still saving yourself probably 11 or so. Just off the top of my head I think that's atleast worthy of 4 games worth of losses.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jan 14, 2016 -> 06:02 PM) I know you are admittedly obsessed by the runs saved stat, but doesn't that vary from year to year? I'm averaging.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jan 14, 2016 -> 05:37 PM) I think with Sale, Q, and Rodon, elite OF are not all that necessary. Just make the regular plays, throw to the right base....the 2005 White Sox had Pods and Dye in the corners. They really weren't good defenders, but they made the plays they had to make. Pods couldn't throw, and that is really all JD could do. And that OF was considered good defensively. RH's obsession with ground ball pitchers and the small OF at USCF make having an elite OF defensively a luxury Nobody's asking for Elite Defense. If we wanted Elite Defense we would have signed Jason Heyward. Adding Fowler into that mix would probably equate them to being capable of combining for 4 losses worth of runs.

QUOTE (BlackSox13 @ Jan 14, 2016 -> 05:19 PM) And yet you have admitted that Fowler is barely an upgrade over Eaton so I really don't see the sacrifice you're talking about. Help me understand where you're coming from because I don't see it. Do you not think Eaton would be an upgrade over Melky in LF or Avi in RF? Adding Fowler to Eaton in the outfield would make the outfield more athletic by removing one of Melky/Avi who run more like lumberjacks. Don't get me wrong, I agree the Sox need better defense from the outfielders. I have absolutely no idea if Eaton is going to be any better switching spots. Replacing him with Fowler in CF is essentially a wash or worse(certainly capable of getting worse on defense as he's shown).Fowler had right around the same misplay(out of position) runs as Garcia.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jan 14, 2016 -> 05:00 PM) Jackson is better than both those guys...especially CF comparing him with Cespedes. I think in the corner spots he's just a tad worse if I remember correctly. But definitely better in CF.

QUOTE (BlackSox13 @ Jan 14, 2016 -> 04:56 PM) It's true Fowler is barely a defensive upgrade over Eaton but by moving Eaton to a corner OF spot, Eaton upgrades that corner spot. I'll take Eaton in LF or RF any day over Melky or Avi. As for projections. Without knowing for sure what ball park Fowler will be playing defense in, that projection is rather meaningless. Imo, a more accurate way of looking at it is to judge Fowler's defense based upon last year. The Cell has deeper gaps but shorter lines than Wrigley so the difference should be somewhat minimal and roughly the same amount of ground to cover. The only time I've used that projection was just a little bit ago. Everything else is from past years. He's a very bad defender. Especially in Center Field. Just how much are you willing to sacrifice is the question. I'm on record of not wanting to sacrifice defense anymore in the outfield. I dont want to see tons of out of position runs given up again. Just poor fundamentals from bad defenders.

QUOTE (Lillian @ Jan 14, 2016 -> 04:48 PM) Austin Jackson is not a significant offensive upgrade over Avi. In fact, given Avi's age and inexperience, it would be reasonable to hope that he might out produce Jackson. Jackson would bring better defense, but that is not worth the money, which he would cost. If the Sox are going to settle for nothing more than a defensive upgrade in the outfield, I'd rather they tried to accomplish it with a young player with potential, who would not cost much. There are plenty of guys around who haven't yet been able to demonstrate that they can be productive Major League hitters, but are good defensive players. Guys like Jordan Danks, and Trayce Thompson, who are both now gone, would make more sense than signing Jackson. In any case, if a new outfield acquisition is made, he better be able to play RF. I don't want to see Eaton or Melky out there, in that corner. Cespedes is a different story, as his bat and defensive upgrade in LF would be enough to compensate for weaker defense in RF. You guys have persuaded me that he would not be willing, or even able, according to some, to play RF. Once again technically Jackson's defense is better than anyone we've been talking about except for Upton and Cespedes. He breaks even in alot of defensive categories which I cant say is the case for alot of these guys. The question is what value do you put on the prospect of potentially saving anywhere from around 11-15 runs? How many games do you think that could potentially cost if you dont save them?

QUOTE (SoxPride18 @ Jan 14, 2016 -> 04:37 PM) That's just a projection though? I'm sure he had a negative projection last year given from past history. Players can outplay projections. Technically in runs saved he was about right where he needed to be last year which was -12. The year before he was -20 which was a huge drop. Still Garcia actually gave up 1 less run and was positive in the assisted runs saved category. The amount of out of position runs they both gave up though is huge.

QUOTE (SoxPride18 @ Jan 14, 2016 -> 04:31 PM) http://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=...=&players=0 I don't see -8 anywhere. Look at the steamer projections for 2016 on his main bio page

QUOTE (BlackSox13 @ Jan 14, 2016 -> 04:00 PM) No but let's not pretend Eaton was any better in CF either. As crazy as it sounds, Fowler is a defensive upgrade over Melky/Avi/Eaton. Yep, that's how bad the Sox OF was last year. He's barely a defensive upgrade. He still gave up 20 runs in 2014 and 11 runs in 2015. Technically Garcia was better in that department than Fowler was. There was atleast a positive in the assists column. Cant say that for Fowler. Plus to the person who quoted Fangraphs. They have him at a -8 for next year.

These Fowler in CF thoughts...do people keep glossing over how bad his defense was there?

QUOTE (OmarComing25 @ Jan 13, 2016 -> 07:16 PM) Our rotation is already suspect, who are you replacing Q with? I'd probably fill it out with one of the free agents left. But it would be nice to add a 5 War OFer making minimal money to the team. Alas it's a complete longshot.

QUOTE (Jose Abreu @ Jan 13, 2016 -> 06:29 PM) We've traded away enough assets this winter. It's time to hit the FA market. It's not going to happen. But you have to give up talent to get talent. He wont be cheap. Even taking back a garbage contract probably wont bring his price down enough.

QUOTE (ChiSoxFanMike @ Jan 13, 2016 -> 05:09 PM) You would trade Rodon or Quintana for Inciarte? Rodon no...Q very possible.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jan 13, 2016 -> 05:05 PM) Who are you willing to trade? They still want Markakis, Bourn and Swisher off the books. They would play Inciarte, Olivera and Cespedes together. Almost anyone to be honest except for Sale.

Hey if Atlanta wants Cespedes we can take Ender Inciarte

Wilmer Reina ‏@WilmerReina 9m9 minutes ago Source: "CarGo stay in #Rockies" https://twitter.com/WilmerReina

Blackmon is actually my new first choice. His defense isnt good. But his offense more than compensates for that deficiency. Plus he doesnt make a whole lot of money.

QUOTE (bmags @ Jan 12, 2016 -> 12:49 PM) I enjoy the suction.

QUOTE (3GamesToLove @ Jan 12, 2016 -> 12:05 PM) Austin Jackson is not good, guys. He doesnt give up a crap load of runs like Fowler.

QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Jan 12, 2016 -> 11:59 AM) Yep...his defensive metrics aren't that great in CF. The question is, if you move him, what does it do to his value. I'm on board with the Austin Jackson idea and just rolling with that if we cant get Cespedes.

Front office is going to make Robin look stupid if he has to put that turd in the OF this year. He gives up 15 runs just by being out of position. Plus it's more than likely going to end up that the team has to give up prospects to upgrade mid season.

Just a quick little piece of info. In 5 years Fowler has given up 53 runs. 32 just in the last 2 seasons.

QUOTE (HickoryHuskers @ Jan 12, 2016 -> 10:50 AM) but I think Fowler might be a tad better in LF than Cespedes. and there's absolutely no evidence that he might be.

QUOTE (SoCalSox @ Jan 11, 2016 -> 02:47 PM) Oh okay, gotcha. Personally, I think it's naïve to think they could land either top 2 player on anything less than 4-5 years. I absolutely believe it is. I'm not optimistic at all that we land one of the OFers. Plus I'm not a big fan of Fowler so that doesnt leave many options.